But if we launch nukes they wont be around anymore...So it wouldnt really matter...

Thats about the stupidest thing I've heard all day. Plus we arent gonna do that because it would damage the oil fields.

Yeah, well we didnt invade Iraq for the oil cause look at the gas prices...

Exactly, thats what Im saying. The % of oil owned by the top 5 oil companies has almost tripled in the last 30 years. They can charge more because there is less competition. That is about the most basic concept of economics.

And the worst part is that our constitution seems to protect the insane rantings of radical clerics in mosques found within our own borders! That makes no sense to me.....at the VERY least, we should shut down muslim teachings of hatred, terrorism, and suicide bombings within our own country. Then again, white power groups and even sick fers like NAMBLA (sp?) have constitutional protections....perhaps ridding ourselves of the Wahabbi sect of Islam is impossible without altering the constitution.

I don't know.....but this isn't working. I'm all for the Patriot Act.

1774-1776= Convening the first continental congress, starting fighting against british troops and signing the declaration of independence, a good thing.
1789= Ratification of the U.S. Constitution (which includes a bill of rights, a "protection" from gov't/tyranny if you will) a good thing.
2001= 9/11 Terrible act on america, I hope it never happens again. 99% of Americans would agree with that.
2001= Patriot Act, bad thing, not really the U.S.A. with that type of act.

BTW, let's play a little political game here, for the past 3 years, the popular, "moral", and "patriotic", thing to do has been to vote republican, and agree with Bush 100% unquestionably. Well what if I were to tell you that supporting or believing in the patriot act is in fact, "unpatriotic", "unamerican", "communist", and "left-wing, liberalism"? I want you to really really think about that before you answer and look at the whole scope and depth of American history/struggles before you answer, and BTW, america was not founded in 2001, so you're gonna have to go back to the 1760's at the very least....

I'm bad with history, but I'd rather be safe than PC or existing within some historical resonance with our forefathers. I've always believed that if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide....and those people who are truly innocent won't mind "giving up" some constitutional freedoms (I'd rather use the term "conveniences") for the prospect of furthering a safe environment for us and our children, propagating the American dream, if you will.

It sucks that we have to do that, and ideally we'd prefer a solution that didn't require additional intrusions and addendums to our freedom, but if it is necessary to track down these cells that certainly exist within our borders, then we should embrace it. Those people who want to blow themselves up will do exactly that...it's too late to expect some miraculous conversion. Thus, we can let them flourish and then hunt and kill them wherever they happen to emerge over the next 100 years, which would likely facilitate at least a few more 911-ish attacks, OR we can choke it out by stopping the teachings of hate, violence, and intolerance from proliferating in the hopes of raising a new generation of sane, caring, and normal Muslims free from the bonds of radicalism.

I opt for the latter.

Gator,

I can understand your reasoning, but you have to understand government. If you give the government an inch, they will take a mile.

If you want to see how the USA Patriot Act can backfire, do a Google.com search on Jose Padillia. What people are failing to understand is that this Jose Padilla guy is a BORN AMERICAN CITIZEN and he is entitled to certain rights guaranteed to him by the US Constitution. That's not including the fact that he was arrested on US soil.

In the words of the scary John Ashcroft;

"We must suspend certain freedoms to protect your freedoms."

What kind of crap is that?????


This is a clear-cut case of "Imperialism" at it's purest form by the Bush Administration.


<~~ Die-hard Libertarian here...

For those of you that think he (Jose Padillia) should just be treated like a terrorist and thrown in prison without a trial are NO DIFFERENT than the terrorists themselves.

What makes this country great are the freedoms that we enjoy. Some of those freedoms include:

Right to a speedy trial. (Padillia has been in prison since 2001.)
Right to legal council. (He's been denied an attorney)
Be proven guilty in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt.

This is just total and utter BS . If our founding fathers were still alive, Thomas Jefferson would be calling for a revolution. I love this country with all of my heart and it tees me off when I see ANYONE trying to destroy what makes this country great. I don't care if it were Bush, Kerry, Clinton or whomever. Slowly but surely our rights guaranteed to us by God and the US Constitution are slowly being taken away from us by using grade school scare tactics.

For those of you that don't know, the Bill of Rights is NOT a document that tells what us as citizens can or cannot do. It tells GOVERNMENT what it can and cannot do.

and that's great gatornation, but the problem is that YOU'RE sure that people wouldn't mind giving up those freedoms, the problem is that this country is democracy, historical resonance or not, now if we are going to change our gov't structure, that's one thing, but it is still a democracy. And yes I'm aware that the patriot act was passed by elected representatives, but do you think the patriot would pass a nationwide referendum? No. Safety over freedom, I don't know, you're starting to sound like a woman voter and a Torie, I know you're better than that, shit, terrorists should be afraid of american the size of you, at some point, you got to draw a line in the sand and say no, the terrorists have not beaten and will not change my country to dictatorship like theirs, I mean that's essentially what they're doing, you're letting them turn America into an Iraq (ppl tortured by Sadaam were "enemies" of the gov't) or a Saudia Arabia little by putting a premium on security over freedom. You can be as smartass as you like about the forefathers but the fact remains we are a free country and we're supposed to remain one, how is taking away civil liberties not letting terrorists win? Tell me that...

something isn't working with my posts, that last post is missing like 20 word throughout it that I typed, is there a word limit or something, my post looks like swiss cheese....

Not that I know of....

that's very weird, I'm gonna try to keep my posts shorter I guess....

I've never had that problem. Could it be your keyboard or your thinking was faster than your typing?

well I read over it before I submitted it, who knows, I'll be more careful next time and see what happens, but keeping it shorter might help....