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Old 11-16-2009, 11:35 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by MadisonTider View Post
I'm not saying he's not a good recruiter, but he's never put the kind of effort into it that Saban does or Meyer does or even that Orgeron does.

He can get more good players than Holtz ever could, especially offensive players, because he's "Spurrier", but he's not knocking at the door on the top 3 recruiting classes either.

Shula had several top 15 recruiting classes at Alabama, but there's a BIG difference between the #1 class and the #15 class.

If South Carolina truly aspires to be in the SEC title hunt, they probably need to look elsewhere but if they're okay with the "tip-top" being an 8 win season, then Spurrier is good enough.
Recruiting rankings mean nothing, just ask Va. Tech.
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:36 AM   #17 (permalink)
 
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As for Paul Johnson what does USC offer that would be better than his current situation? An even tougher division in an even more competitive conference with less recruiting edge?
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:39 AM   #18 (permalink)
 
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As for Paul Johnson what does USC offer that would be better than his current situation? An even tougher division in an even more competitive conference with less recruiting edge?
While I agree with most of this USC does not have less of a recruiting edge. I'd rather go up against Clemson in instate recruiting than UGA.
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:49 AM   #19 (permalink)
 
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While I agree with most of this USC does not have less of a recruiting edge. I'd rather go up against Clemson in instate recruiting than UGA.
I'm referencing sheer number of in-staters available plus being located in Atlanta. Either way I don't really see enough that says the USC gig is better than the Tech job. Too tough of a haul.

The big thing lost in all of this is that South Carolina pulled off what pretty much no similar team has. They did manage to make a very high profile hire at a school where it wouldn't seem possible. It just needs more time.

OT had some good points about the east next year and as much as I said coming into this season that Garcia was completely unproven (and he was) I feel like he will become one of the preeminent qbs in the conference his last two seasons. His elusiveness is amazing and he is throwing a quality pass this season. Big year next season imo.
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Old 11-16-2009, 12:13 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I'll say what I always say, if it is so easy for a bad to mediocre ball team to reach the upper tier in a BCS conference for an extended period of time with a single coaching hire show me three examples of where it's been done. You're kidding yourself if you think anybody can get a Saban type coach. The decade or so leading up to Saban doesn't diminish even slightly the tradition, fan support, money and recruiting advantages at an Alabama. There is a reason UK was able to get Rick Pitino while on probation but our football program in the same set of circumstances had to go with a less than flashy hire. (It turned out to be a great hire but still). You also forget that during the down period for Bama the program was still able to haul in high profile coaches. Whether or not they succeeded is neither here nor there. Don't think 10-15 years of mediocrity with 12 national championships equates to 40 or 50 years of what was mediocrity at best.
Kids today have a what have you done for me lately mentality. In terms of recruiting, kids don't give a schit about how many championships Alabama won in the 1920's. They care about what coach can give them the best opportunity to get to the next level. And certainly not every school can get a Saban, but USC has gotten some high profile coaches. Look at their last 2 hires. The one drawback is that Holtz and Spurrier were both in their twilight years when they went to USC. I think if you take a good coach that can recruit like a Johnson or Kelly they can push the program to the next level. Spurrier was great...in 1996. And I'm not trying diminish what he has accomplished there. He's certainly done a lot help build SC into a respectable program, but every year it's the same story. Start out strong, fade down the stretch.

I do see your point as to why Johnson may not want to leave Tech, but honestly I think he's a guy that wants to compete at the highest level. He wants to prove that he can do it, same as Meyer or Saban or any other great coach. He could settle for the Orange bowl and an ACC championship every other year, but I don't think he wants that.

And certainly the old money and resources at Bama have a lot to do with the resurgence. Don't get me wrong, I know there aren't many coaches that could step into USCe's situation and be competing for a SEC title in 2-3 years. That said, I think they've gotten about all their going to get out of the ol' ball coach. There has to be a point where USC decides, hey, we don't want to be a 7-8 win team every year. We want to compete for this conference.

Maybe they turn the corner next season. I hope they do because I like their program and their fans and I like Spurrier (even though I hated him in the 90's). I'm just not sure how much longer Spurrier needs.

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Old 11-16-2009, 12:42 PM   #21 (permalink)
 
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And the difference is, when will SC fans decide that settling to just be South Carolina won't be good enough?

I was a big supporter of Spurrier for the past few years, but it's evident there has been no significant progress over the past 3 years or so. SC is still starting out strong, only to falter as the season wears on. It's time for Spurrier to take up golfing full time.
Have you been in a coma the last 5 years? I'll skip everything that's already been mentioned (including the BEST recruiting classes and the BEST record for a 5 year span EVER) and get to the point.

It's HUGE for this program to even be mentioned on ESPN, especially for "fading down the stretch". You know what that means? That Steve Spurrier has built a probation ridden, talentless South Carolina program into a football school with EXPECTATIONS. Not just from their own fans and staff, but from the national media.
Are people surprised that Vandy is about to go 2-10 a year removed from their 7-6 campaign? Nope, because it was only 1 year. Carolina has the respect of the SEC and the nation for the first time in a long time.
It would be asanine to fire a National Championship, Hall of Fame head coach after the best 5 years this program has ever experienced.


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Kids today have a what have you done for me lately mentality. In terms of recruiting, kids don't give a schit about how many championships Alabama won in the 1920's. They care about what coach can give them the best opportunity to get to the next level. And certainly not every school can get a Saban, but USC has gotten some high profile coaches. Look at their last 2 hires. The one drawback is that Holtz and Spurrier were both in their twilight years when they went to USC. I think if you take a good coach that can recruit like a Johnson or Kelly they can push the program to the next level. Spurrier was great...in 1996. And I'm not trying diminish what he has accomplished there. He's certainly done a lot help build SC into a respectable program, but every year it's the same story. Start out strong, fade down the stretch.


And certainly the old money and resources at Bama have a lot to do with the resurgence. Don't get me wrong, I know there aren't many coaches that could step into USCe's situation and be competing for a SEC title in 2-3 years. That said, I think they've gotten about all their going to get out of the ol' ball coach. There has to be a point where USC decides, hey, we don't want to be a 7-8 win team every year. We want to compete for this conference.

Maybe they turn the corner next season. I hope they do because I like their program and their fans and I like Spurrier (even though I hated him in the 90's). I'm just not sure how much longer Spurrier needs.
Rob, you're being ridiculous.
How do you think Notre Dame has survived for so long with decent recruiting classes? Because kids thought Charlie Weis or Tyrone Willingham would give them the best chance to win? Not a chance. For someone who loves to brag about their schools tradition, you sure do ignore it when it matters to someone else... The Gamecock fans are some of the best. I've never heard 80,000 be that loud before.

Carolina has ALWAYS wanted more than just an 8 win season.
If you think that someone other than Spurrier can give it to them in a couple years, then you know something no one else in the country does.




I'm still shocked that firing Spurrier is even a talking point...
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Old 11-16-2009, 12:51 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Have you been in a coma the last 5 years? I'll skip everything that's already been mentioned (including the BEST recruiting classes and the BEST record for a 5 year span EVER) and get to the point.

It's HUGE for this program to even be mentioned on ESPN, especially for "fading down the stretch". You know what that means? That Steve Spurrier has built a probation ridden, talentless South Carolina program into a football school with EXPECTATIONS. Not just from their own fans and staff, but from the national media.
Are people surprised that Vandy is about to go 2-10 a year removed from their 7-6 campaign? Nope, because it was only 1 year. Carolina has the respect of the SEC and the nation for the first time in a long time.
It would be asanine to fire a National Championship, Hall of Fame head coach after the best 5 years this program has ever experienced.




Rob, you're being ridiculous.
How do you think Notre Dame has survived for so long with decent recruiting classes? Because kids thought Charlie Weiss or Tyrone Willingham would give them the best chance to win? Not a chance. For someone who loves to brag about their schools tradition, you sure do ignore it when it matters to someone else...

Carolina has ALWAYS wanted more than just an 8 win season. If you think that someone other than Spurrier can give it to them in a couple years, then you know something no one else in the country does.




I'm still shocked that firing Spurrier is even a talking point...
I think you're missing my point. You highlighted the elements you wanted to emphasize your points while ignoring other elements essentially twisting the meaning of what I said.

Spurrier is a great coach. We all know that. He's done a great job at turning the program around (another point I made which you chose to ignore). My point in saying all of that was to say, I think Spurrier has taken USC as far as he can take them. I give him all the credit in the world for what he's done there, as I've said countless times already.

You may choose to disagree. It is your opinion and you're entitled to it. And I'm not saying they should go and fire Spurrier this year. Let's be realistic. You don't fire a hall of famer like Spurrier after he gets your team multiple winning seasons when there was NO winning at the university before he got there.

I just think that if USC wants to get beyond the 7-8 win mark they're going to have to start looking elsewhere. It may be next year, it may be 2 years from now. But I think it's eventual.

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Old 11-16-2009, 01:00 PM   #23 (permalink)
 
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I'm still shocked that firing Spurrier is even a talking point...
There are a handful of numbnuts no matter what topic is being discussed. I assure you the numbers who consider it a good idea are minuscule.
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Old 11-16-2009, 01:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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There are a handful of numbnuts no matter what topic is being discussed. I assure you the numbers who consider it a good idea are minuscule.
And I assure you, firing Steve Spurrier right now is NOT what I'm remotely suggesting. He has another year at least, but like I've said many times Steve Spurrier will leave South Carolina when he's ready to. I understand that also and I think he's probably earned that.

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Old 11-16-2009, 04:22 PM   #25 (permalink)
 
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I think you're missing my point. You highlighted the elements you wanted to emphasize your points while ignoring other elements essentially twisting the meaning of what I said.

Spurrier is a great coach. We all know that. He's done a great job at turning the program around (another point I made which you chose to ignore). My point in saying all of that was to say, I think Spurrier has taken USC as far as he can take them. I give him all the credit in the world for what he's done there, as I've said countless times already.

You may choose to disagree. It is your opinion and you're entitled to it. And I'm not saying they should go and fire Spurrier this year. Let's be realistic. You don't fire a hall of famer like Spurrier after he gets your team multiple winning seasons when there was NO winning at the university before he got there.

I just think that if USC wants to get beyond the 7-8 win mark they're going to have to start looking elsewhere. It may be next year, it may be 2 years from now. But I think it's eventual.
I didn't twist anything man.
You're saying that if Carolina wants to be a consistently better team, they should get rid of Spurrier. I don't know how else to interpret any of this.
The only replacement examples are new, "hot" coaches. There is no justification for them being any better than what the Gamecocks have now, so I guess I just don't get your point of view.
Hell, there are probably 115 FBS schools out there that would gladly take Spurrier off South Carolina's hands.
It took Spurrier one year to lead a probation suffering Florida to an SEC championship, but he was already left with good players, a good team, and an overall good situation.
It's not comparable in any way to what he walked into at South Carolina.


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And I assure you, firing Steve Spurrier right now is NOT what I'm remotely suggesting. He has another year at least, but like I've said many times Steve Spurrier will leave South Carolina when he's ready to. I understand that also and I think he's probably earned that.

You chastise the Gamecock fans for not demanding more success and searching for a "better" coach, yet you don't think he should be fired?
I'm not following you at all.
From your perspective, what would be the best course of action for South Carolina to take, if they want to win the SEC East in the next 3 years?
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Old 11-16-2009, 05:03 PM   #26 (permalink)
 
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I'm not saying he's not a good recruiter, but he's never put the kind of effort into it that Saban does or Meyer does or even that Orgeron does.

He can get more good players than Holtz ever could, especially offensive players, because he's "Spurrier", but he's not knocking at the door on the top 3 recruiting classes either.

Shula had several top 15 recruiting classes at Alabama, but there's a BIG difference between the #1 class and the #15 class.

If South Carolina truly aspires to be in the SEC title hunt, they probably need to look elsewhere but if they're okay with the "tip-top" being an 8 win season, then Spurrier is good enough.
He really hasn't gotten them to that 8 win regular season plateau..........


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Old 11-16-2009, 05:05 PM   #27 (permalink)
 
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Spurrier is smart. He is a VERY smart football coach. I think he is doing a great job. He is trying to compete in an extremely fierce conference. Peoople forget that.
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Old 11-16-2009, 05:25 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Spurrier leaving or being forced out right now would be disastrous for our program, no doubt in my mind.
I'll just regress, because I feel I've made myself perfectly redundant.
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:36 PM   #29 (permalink)
 
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Spurrier leaving or being forced out right now would be disastrous for our program, no doubt in my mind.
Spurrier is not going to be forced out, He will leave when he is ready and on his terms. South Carolina is lucky to have him and the majority of the people know that. There are a few numb nuts that think a new coach is the answer. This would only set us back again, especially recruiting. The Sec is not the best football conference for nothing. If Florida is the best team in the nation, and we were on the 20 yard line, 3 points behind in the fourth quarter, then how far behind can we be? And Bama, you didn't exactly cake walk through our game either. I love our team and I love the job Spurrier is doing. Thank you Coach Spurrier.

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Old 11-16-2009, 06:45 PM   #30 (permalink)
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You chastise the Gamecock fans for not demanding more success and searching for a "better" coach, yet you don't think he should be fired?
I'm not following you at all.
From your perspective, what would be the best course of action for South Carolina to take, if they want to win the SEC East in the next 3 years?
I said I don't think Spurrier will ever win them more than 7-8 games a year. I think if they want to win more than that they'll have to look elsewhere. I then named some coaches who I thought would be successful there and why. Now obviously that is just my opinion. You don't fire a coach whose given your program the most success it's had in its history. I think eventually the two entities will part ways. It may be next year or it may be 2 years from now, but eventually they will part ways. And I didn't name Johnson or Kelly because they're "hot" coaches right now. I named them because they're good coaches. How many programs does Johnson have to turn around before people start buying into the fact that he's a good football coach?

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