If the Cocks don't win 8 games this season...

[GetEmGamecocks]

Does anyone else agree that if we don't win at least 8 games in 08-09, we should look for a new ball coach? I think so. I wanted to get some opinions from folks who um, have more of a clue about what they're talking about.

[Dr. Pepper]

That is ridiculous. We won't get anyone better than Spurrier. A better coach does not exist. He had nothing when he got here, and it takes time to fill the holes and get some depth. Yet, he has taken us to a couple of bowl games and won one of them. Last year was a problem because of depth, not coaching.

Fire Spurrier, and we lose all credibility. We might as well shut down the program.

I do believe that we will do well this year. But, there are still some question marks. I think that Spurrier will turn the question marks to exclamation marks, but I am not going to say he has to win 8-9 games in order to stay. He is here for as long as he wants.

[Williams-Brice]

Does anyone else agree that if we don't win at least 8 games in 08-09, we should look for a new ball coach? I think so. I wanted to get some opinions from folks who um, have more of a clue about what they're talking about.

It's very clear that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Here we go again. A portion of Gamecock fans wanting to throw the coach out after 3 years. Are we the only people who don't realize that coaching stability is one of the most important aspects when it comes to recruiting and financial stability? Fire Spurrier, and you can forget about recruiting quality athletes, you can forget about big time donors giving at big time levels, and you can forget about a quality coach following him. Who would want to play for, give to, or coach a program that ran Steve Spurrier out?

Unreal.

[GTmorris1970]

Pay closer attention to what is going on. Spurrier has been saying for days now at his tour stops that better days are on the way, and the best teams will be over the next 3-4 years. He said we now have enough athletes to compete with the best the SEC has to offer, and has repeatedly said he was wrong last year for even mentioning an SEC title due to lack of 'ball players'. Funny thing is, we have been 'competing' all along, with MUCH less talent than the big dogs. You won't out coach Spurrier on game day. EVER. You give him some players with that mind of his, you got it going on.

Now, some are all doom and gloom over the QB situation and the OL. Personally I'm not. Beecher looked very good this spring, and doesn't mind running the ball. You must remember Spurrier doesn't expect these guys to win the game. He expects them to manage the game. Beecher is a smart kid. He's a 4.0 student, in some kind of crazy mathmatics program. He is in the fourth year in the system, so he knows the offense. I also expect Bubba to open up the offense a little more than dad has been.

The OL is going to surprise some folks IMO. They are deep, talented, and they are in excellent physical condition. Practicing against our defense every day doesn't hurt either.

I guess some are worried and upset because Spurrier hasn't said a whole lot this season, but I take that as a good thing. Let your 'game' do the talking. And, for those who are feeling all tickly about Spurrier Jr. calling plays and saying Spurrier is leaving, here is his quote from last night. "I'm not quitting".

[GAMECOCK_FAN]

I agree with the statements above.....no way is Spurrier on the hot seat. We will not get a better coach than Spurrier, and he will, and should be given every opportunity to get our program on the right track. I personally believe Spurrier will stay at South Carolina as long as HE wants (and that's the way it should be IMO).

[Cjssax]

Thats crazy, Spurrier is one of the best coaches in the country, and has taken us to 2 bowl games already! Hes finally got most of his recruits in too, you just have to give him time

[GatorNation]

SOS not calling plays is never a good thing...I don't care how talented his son is. "Having input" (even as the "OC") isn't the same thing as putting your stamp on the game by calling each play. Now, whether SOS giving up playcalling duties to his son will (overall) benefit the team....that remains to be seen. It might; it might not.

But I don't see Spurrier staying with South Carolina if he doesn't see Atlanta within the next three years. The problem, unfortunately, is that Florida and Georgia are getting a lot stronger (and they're developing at a faster rate) than SOS is building usce. I think that is/will be the main problem at South Carolina.

Spurrier can do it...no doubt. But he has to have better (and more consistent) recruiting every single year if he's going to get there. Right now, I don't see that happening...#22 in Rivals is good. But it's not going to help you in the east when UF and UGA are top 3, top 5 every year.

Just an opinion...

[Cockfan720]

SOS not calling plays is never a good thing...I don't care how talented his son is. "Having input" (even as the "OC") isn't the same thing as putting your stamp on the game by calling each play. Now, whether SOS giving up playcalling duties to his son will (overall) benefit the team....that remains to be seen. It might; it might not.

But I don't see Spurrier staying with South Carolina if he doesn't see Atlanta within the next three years. The problem, unfortunately, is that Florida and Georgia are getting a lot stronger (and they're developing at a faster rate) than SOS is building usce. I think that is/will be the main problem at South Carolina.

Spurrier can do it...no doubt. But he has to have better (and more consistent) recruiting every single year if he's going to get there. Right now, I don't see that happening...#22 in Rivals is good. But it's not going to help you in the east when UF and UGA are top 3, top 5 every year.

Just an opinion...

I agree.

I will say this though. Spurrier winning at South Carolina is more than just recruiting. He has having to literally change the whole culture. When Spurrier got to South Carolina, our athletic budget was third from last in the SEC. He pretty much came in and said that is unacceptable. We are now building a new baseball park, renovating williams brice, building a new athlete's academic enrichment center, etc. Our budget last year jumped to fifth in the conference.

We're getting better but we're not there yet. He is having to change more than just a win/loss record. He's having to change the fans' mindset. A couple years ago we hosted #2 Auburn and only lost by a TD. Our fans cheered at the end. Spurrier had to scold our fans for NEVER accepting moral victories.

It has and will take longer than many expected (many national sports writers are already saying that he's lost his touch). And if I'm not mistaken I heard that Spurrier Jr. will be up in the booth, and Spurrier Sr. will be on the field therefore, all the plays will still have to go through him. Sr. will still be coaching the QBs (bottom line is he wanted more time with the OL).

For fans that doubt Spurrier's passion to win at South Carolina, I promise it's there. It's just taking longer because when Spurrier got here nobody really took into account that he would have to change the whole culture of our football program. We have a sub .500 overall record for God sakes. Look how many 3 and 4 win seasons we've had as a football program. And look at where we are now, we're pissed that we didn't win 9 last year. It's getting better. It will just take some time! GO COCKS!

[GTmorris1970]

As far as playcalling, Spurrier Jr. has always been in the press box during the games, and has always 'assisted' in play calling. Spurrier himself said Jr. has coached with him 11 years, and knows the offense just as good as he does. This does not mean Spurrier is senile and can't do it anymore. He simply realized he was not allowing talented coaches to use their talent. He was trying to do everything himself. He wants to be a more 'complete' head coach, knowing what is going on in all depts. He actually got the idea from Mark Richt at UGA. If you ever go watch them practice, you will notice before he was in his own little corner with the QB's the entire time, except for scrimmages. He chuckles at the fire storm the news raised, reassuring Carolina fans you won't see much difference. Spurrier Jr. will be doing the majority of the game plan, which Spurrier said takes up so much of his time. He will still assist, but let Jr. do most of it.

As for recruiting, I agree that it needs to improve, but the quality of athlete he has been bringing is phenominal compared to what he inherited. It should also be noted he recruits differently than a lot of coaches. He could care less about 'stars'. He offers scholarships based strictly on HS film and personal interaction with a player. Most Carolina fans know many of Carolina's 'star' players over the years were two and three star coming out of HS, but turned out to be monsters at the college level. Two and three star players don't get you high rankings in recruiting however. I look more at did we cover the positions we need with good quality talent. He is doing that well.

Much of this season IMO will depend on folks you wouldn't expect. Carolina fans know the defensive secondary and guys like Eric Norwood and Jasper Brinkley well. The def. line will be key. But they are 11 deep, with 11 good ones. Ellis Johnson has been quoted as saying it's the most talented group he has ever worked with.
Jared Cook is stupid good. A 4'4 40 TE with soft hands? You gotta be kidding me. Show me a LB that can cover that speed in the open field. I would love to meet him. You will see a lot of 2 TE sets this year, and I understand Bubba runs the shotgun more than dad does.

I think this team has the talent to give Carolina fans the 'wow factor' they have been longing for. It probably won't be this year, but I assure you this. Every team that plays them will be glad to get home. Spurrier has said he thinks they will be in every game, but we have to learn to win the close ones and not make dumb mistakes (special teams, fumbles, intereceptions, etc.) at critical times. I'm not going to give w-l predictions, but this will be the most talented team Carolina has put on the field in a mighty long time.

[usafbamafan]

I thought us Bama fans were the ones with no patience and unrealistic expectations....:ph34r::laugh:

[JDStud6]

Much of this season IMO will depend on folks you wouldn't expect. Carolina fans know the defensive secondary and guys like Eric Norwood and Jasper Brinkley well. The def. line will be key. But they are 11 deep, with 11 good ones. Ellis Johnson has been quoted as saying it's the most talented group he has ever worked with.
Jared Cook is stupid good. A 4'4 40 TE with soft hands? You gotta be kidding me. Show me a LB that can cover that speed in the open field. I would love to meet him. You will see a lot of 2 TE sets this year, and I understand Bubba runs the shotgun more than dad does.


4'4" ....wow, I bet he's hard to cover! :)

JD

[BamaJoe112]

Spurrier is the best bet, but if petrino doesnt have a good season at ARKY, he'll be a prime candidate for the position. LOLOLOLOLOL

[volimhtown]

Spurrier can do it...no doubt. But he has to have better (and more consistent) recruiting every single year if he's going to get there. Right now, I don't see that happening...#22 in Rivals is good. But it's not going to help you in the east when UF and UGA are top 3, top 5 every year.

Just an opinion...

Ehhh....recruiting's important, no doubt, but the current "divide" just isn't as significant as you're implying. Recruiting class rankings don't mean squat and don't preclude championships. One 5-star player busting (Ryan Perilloux) or one 3-star player exceeding expectations wipes out the supposed divide you speak of. I think it comes down to moulding/coaching your talent to run your system.
Star players seemigly "burst" onto the scene every year. Moreno's a perfect example...was he viewed as a no-miss super star at this time last year?? Recruiting or talent development?? Put another way...if Tim Tebow's the QB at S. Carolina last year, is there any reason to assume that they wouldn't have at least equalled or possibly bettered the Gators' results from last year?? NO. So the talent's there and no less than it is anywhere else.
With all of that said, I suppose it's fair to question SOS' current ability (and there lack of) to develop the type of QB he needs to run his system OR to install a system that matches his players' skill set. Ironically, it's the offense that has largely gotten in the way of taking the next step. The thought was when SOS took the position in Columbia that top QB prospects would flock to the Cocks' doorstep. This has not happened. I think it's fair to question "why", but we need to also keep in mind that it's still way too early in the process to get too critical of the job he's done.
I think someone else already addressed the last BIG hurdle that needs to be cleared....the culture. Carolina has a LONG and CONSISTENT history of losing. That doesn't change over night. It doesn't disapear simply with the hiring of the right coach and it doesn't go away because you're starting to consistently recruit talent that has been otherwise fleeting. It's a process that takes time and patience. It's not so obvious on paper and in terms of results, but SOS IS doing a good job at USCe and has the program on the right track.
Questioning whether the bus is going the right way is fine, but to suggest that's it's time to replace the driver before you even get out of the city limits is just rediculous!! :thumpsup:

[PuddingTime]

Kentucky was on probation and Brooks got UK to two bowl games and won them....Spurrier hasn't exactly been impressive in Columbia guys. I know he has his reputation....but you gotta be realistic....

[JerryBeeds]

Carolina has a LONG and CONSISTENT history of losing.

I think our history is more one of mediocrity than losing. If you look at our all-time record, we pretty much win about 6 games a year. The 90's (when we transitioned into the SEC) is kind of why people think we're losers. Not that mediocrity is that much better of a boat to be in but I thought I'd point that out.

[JerryBeeds]

Brooks was on probation and got Kentucky to two bowl games and won them....Spurrier hasn't exactly been impressive in Columbia guys. I know he has his reputation....but you gotta be realistic....

We were on probation when Spurrier got here. This is our first year off probation in his tenure here.

[GatorNation]

As far as playcalling, Spurrier Jr. has always been in the press box during the games, and has always 'assisted' in play calling. Spurrier himself said Jr. has coached with him 11 years, and knows the offense just as good as he does. This does not mean Spurrier is senile and can't do it anymore. He simply realized he was not allowing talented coaches to use their talent. He was trying to do everything himself. He wants to be a more 'complete' head coach, knowing what is going on in all depts. He actually got the idea from Mark Richt at UGA. If you ever go watch them practice, you will notice before he was in his own little corner with the QB's the entire time, except for scrimmages. He chuckles at the fire storm the news raised, reassuring Carolina fans you won't see much difference. Spurrier Jr. will be doing the majority of the game plan, which Spurrier said takes up so much of his time. He will still assist, but let Jr. do most of it.

As for recruiting, I agree that it needs to improve, but the quality of athlete he has been bringing is phenominal compared to what he inherited. It should also be noted he recruits differently than a lot of coaches. He could care less about 'stars'. He offers scholarships based strictly on HS film and personal interaction with a player. Most Carolina fans know many of Carolina's 'star' players over the years were two and three star coming out of HS, but turned out to be monsters at the college level. Two and three star players don't get you high rankings in recruiting however. I look more at did we cover the positions we need with good quality talent. He is doing that well.

Much of this season IMO will depend on folks you wouldn't expect. Carolina fans know the defensive secondary and guys like Eric Norwood and Jasper Brinkley well. The def. line will be key. But they are 11 deep, with 11 good ones. Ellis Johnson has been quoted as saying it's the most talented group he has ever worked with.
Jared Cook is stupid good. A 4'4 40 TE with soft hands? You gotta be kidding me. Show me a LB that can cover that speed in the open field. I would love to meet him. You will see a lot of 2 TE sets this year, and I understand Bubba runs the shotgun more than dad does.

I think this team has the talent to give Carolina fans the 'wow factor' they have been longing for. It probably won't be this year, but I assure you this. Every team that plays them will be glad to get home. Spurrier has said he thinks they will be in every game, but we have to learn to win the close ones and not make dumb mistakes (special teams, fumbles, intereceptions, etc.) at critical times. I'm not going to give w-l predictions, but this will be the most talented team Carolina has put on the field in a mighty long time.

I agree.

I will say this though. Spurrier winning at South Carolina is more than just recruiting. He has having to literally change the whole culture. When Spurrier got to South Carolina, our athletic budget was third from last in the SEC. He pretty much came in and said that is unacceptable. We are now building a new baseball park, renovating williams brice, building a new athlete's academic enrichment center, etc. Our budget last year jumped to fifth in the conference.

We're getting better but we're not there yet. He is having to change more than just a win/loss record. He's having to change the fans' mindset. A couple years ago we hosted #2 Auburn and only lost by a TD. Our fans cheered at the end. Spurrier had to scold our fans for NEVER accepting moral victories.

It has and will take longer than many expected (many national sports writers are already saying that he's lost his touch). And if I'm not mistaken I heard that Spurrier Jr. will be up in the booth, and Spurrier Sr. will be on the field therefore, all the plays will still have to go through him. Sr. will still be coaching the QBs (bottom line is he wanted more time with the OL).

For fans that doubt Spurrier's passion to win at South Carolina, I promise it's there. It's just taking longer because when Spurrier got here nobody really took into account that he would have to change the whole culture of our football program. We have a sub .500 overall record for God sakes. Look how many 3 and 4 win seasons we've had as a football program. And look at where we are now, we're pissed that we didn't win 9 last year. It's getting better. It will just take some time! GO COCKS!


I agree with all of this....I'm just saying that if Florida and Georgia are becoming national players year in and year out, pulling in ridiculous levels of talent every February, and UK and Vandy are stronger than they've ever been, it's going to be much tougher to win the East than it was, say, four or five years ago....certainly more difficult than it was in the 90s. UT is really a crap shoot...they could be really good, or they could be mediocre. I'll err on the side of "good," though...after all, they played in Atlanta last season. As you know, the East is a very tough division...

USCe beat UF by 8, or something, in 2005. UF won a barnburner in 2006 with the blocked FG on the way to the nc. And last year, Urban (without Harvin) handed SOS his arse. The trend is swinging in UF's direction if one looks only at that info...Florida's best football is in front of them, and they've recruited better than any SEC team and among the very best in the nation.

SOS has played UGA tough. 17-15 loss in 2005, 18-0 UGA shut out in 2006, but Spurs did sic 'em last year. The problem is, that was before Georgia's rebirth toward the middle of the 2007 season. This is a new Georgia team that will probably be comfortably (?) favored come game time. Few teams would have beaten the team I saw demolish Hawaii....and if that team shows up consistently next year and beyond, it's tough to see the East not going through Athens.

It's tough to change a culture. SOS knew what he was getting into, but the best way to change the culture is to win, and in this game, the best way to win is to have better players on the field (or at least no worse). What SOS is doing will certainly help, but I don't think usce will have the success the fans want (and what SOS expects) until he realizes that stockpiling talent is the fastest way to the promised land. Holtz had good players, too....back-to-back Outback Bowl wins over tOSU is nothing to sneeze at, but taking it to the next level in cfb really comes down to recruiting.

[volimhtown]

I think our history is more one of mediocrity than losing. If you look at our all-time record, we pretty much win about 6 games a year. The 90's (when we transitioned into the SEC) is kind of why people think we're losers. Not that mediocrity is that much better of a boat to be in but I thought I'd point that out.

Fair point of fact. :thumpsup: I was actually second guessing myself on wording that statement like that. :laugh: I guess I should have reacted to my gut instinct!! :thumpsup:

[GTmorris1970]

I agree with stacking talent, and that is what he is doing. They are not all 4 and 5 star guys, but this team is deeper this year than any time since I have been a fan which was beginning in 98 when I moved here. They are 11 deep on the DL for instance. Spurrier is doing all the right things. Whether that means more wins remains to be seen. For instance, one reason UF killed Carolina last year was because by that point of the season we could not stop anybody from running down our throat. Arkansas has as good a day if not better. What does he do? He hires Ellis Johnson, who is known as one of the best in the business at stopping the run. We lost at least two games last year because of special teams. Tennessee and Clemson. He hires Rychleski, who is regarded as one of the best special teams and TE coaches around. Coached Vernon Davis at Maryland.

The point about being competitive is this. Last year several of our later games we started off 14 to 21 points behind, often in the first quarter. Tennessee is a prime example. 21-0 and it seemed like kickoff had just occured. We came back, and had a chance to win. That was not the only game that occured. As Spurrier has been preaching all spring. We should be right there in every game, but there are gonna be a lot of close ones. We have to learn to win the close ones, and not shoot ourselves in the foot.

[JerryBeeds]

The culture is changing now, just not fast enough to satisfy some fans who think that all 17 year olds in the southeast ought to come to a university that has no tradition and whose facilities are subpar for their conference and compared to the other Div. 1-A schools in the area just because we hired a famous coach or two that are a little past their prime. The SEC is filled with famous coaches and until the capital improvements are finished then we are behind most other programs. So despite some complaints from the masses the recruiting that Spurrier has done at USC is very, very good imho all things considered.

[GTmorris1970]

I agree Beeds. And for those who think Spurrier is ready to quit, they don't know much about him. He realizes the SEC has changed much since his days at UF, but instead of quitting this is the ultimate challenge for him, and I think he is enjoying it all things considered. Does he get frustrated? Sure. Tell me a coach that don't. But all things considered he is still making hires/fires, recruiting, etc. to make this team better, and still has a smile on his face.

[bamafan12]

I think that Steve is doing a far job there. In a few years like most people are saying who knows. You could be in a position to win the East. Yes, that is going to take some time.

Dude, I know it sucks waiting and looks like they are wasting time there but just be patient. Look at Bama's "Great" program, we still need at least on more year.

Spurrier is ya'll saving grace. Don't give up on him yet.

[GTmorris1970]

I think that Steve is doing a far job there. In a few years like most people are saying who knows. You could be in a position to win the East. Yes, that is going to take some time.

Dude, I know it sucks waiting and looks like they are wasting time there but just be patient. Look at Bama's "Great" program, we still need at least on more year.

Spurrier is ya'll saving grace. Don't give up on him yet.

Bama may need one more year, but no one is gonna want to play them this year IMO.

[GAMECOCK_FAN]

Spurrier is ya'll saving grace. Don't give up on him yet.
I think those Gamecock fans that have or are already giving up on Spurrier are in the vast minority. I guess you could say they are probably not the "sharpest pencils in the box."

[GTmorris1970]

I guess you could say they are probably not the "sharpest pencils in the box."

Actually they have no lead in their pencil.

[RW13]

I don't think Spurrier is the guy. If I were AD I'd let Spurrier leave gracefully and I'd go after Brian Kelly, Jim Grobe, and Tulsa's OC Guz Malzahn (he will be a head coach somewhere in 2009). We need to stop hiring old guys, I don't give a crap how "legendary" they were in the 1980s or 1990s, that doesn't count for crap in 2008. We need a culture change for sure and it's too bad we can't get rid of our fanbase's attitude, they are all a bunch of Karen Hughes and Scott Mccllelans, they paint a rosey picture when a disaster is happening. Spurrier isn't gonna get it done here, of course getting "it done" here is 8-5 according to our brilliant fanbase, so maybe he will get it done....

[JerryBeeds]

I don't think Spurrier is the guy. If I were AD I'd let Spurrier leave gracefully and I'd go after Brian Kelly, Jim Grobe, and Tulsa's OC Guz Malzahn (he will be a head coach somewhere in 2009). We need to stop hiring old guys, I don't give a crap how "legendary" they were in the 1980s or 1990s, that doesn't count for crap in 2008. We need a culture change for sure and it's too bad we can't get rid of our fanbase's attitude, they are all a bunch of Karen Hughes and Scott Mccllelans, they paint a rosey picture when a disaster is happening. Spurrier isn't gonna get it done here, of course getting "it done" here is 8-5 according to our brilliant fanbase, so maybe he will get it done....

I agree to an extent. Spurrier is dragging our program into the 21st century with the raising of ticket prices to remain competitive with our rivals, the facility upgrades that he has personally pushed through, and the upgrading of the talent-level across the board. The next coach is going to walk into a vastly superior situation then the one that Spurs walked into. We just need to go out get a young guy who is a great recruiter. One of our biggest problems over the years has been that our board of testes (not a typo) thinks that this is a destination job. We shouldn't be afraid of hiring someone who could potentially move up the college football food chain after a successful run here.

[lacene]

USC has now been a member of the SEC for 16 football seasons. The first 8 seasons, USC went 32-56-1 (.360) overall, and 18-45-1 (.281) in the SEC. That's 2 winning seasons and 6 losing seasons. This includes the 1-21 seasons in '98 & '99. We went to 1 bowl game.

The last 8 seasons, USC has gone 54-42 (.562) and 30-34 (.469) in the SEC, with 5 winning seasons and a .500 season. We have gone to 4 bowl games, and were eligible for 2 others. There have been improvements....

As far as recruiting goes, IMO we just need to start winning consistently, and we'll have good classes. Not top of the nation classes, but struggling to have winning seasons and going to bowls, we still manage to crack the top-25 pretty much every recruiting season. Winning 8 games and our last 3 in '06 helped us bring in a top-10 class. If we can start doing that consistently, we'll start "stock-piling" talent that may allow us to make a run at the SEC every 3rd season or so, IMO. We just got to start playing smart, and win the games we set ourselves up to win, like against UT and Clemson last season.

Speaking of recruiting classes and our 22nd-ranked '08 class: our '06 class was ranked 24th, and it contained players such as Jasper Brinkley, Captain Munnerlyn, Emanuel Cook, Darrien Stewart, and Eric Norwood, who are all either All-SEC or contenders for All-SEC, as well as other players like Kenrick Ellis, Rodney Paulk, Moe Brown, Vandaral Shackleford, Seaver Brown, Ryan Broadhead, and Garrett Anderson. If recruiting classes were rated after 2-3 seasons of accomplishments on the field, our '06 class may be a top-10 ranked class as well.....

[GatorNation]

I agree Beeds. And for those who think Spurrier is ready to quit, they don't know much about him.


Well, I was just referring to the comments Spurrier made about the likelihood of stepping aside if he can't get it done in the next 3-4 years.

Maybe he'll stay; I don't know.

[GeauxTo]

I don't think the problem is Spurrier's coaching at all. As has been pointed out, he is one of the better college football coaches in existence. The root of the problem, IMO, is that it is very difficult to recruit and attract superior talent into the program, especially at sustained levels so as to build any kind of depth. There are many reasons for this, not the least of which is immense recruiting competition from within and without the state. And, Spurrier's love is coaching (especially on game day), and not recruiting. That is going to be a hard problem for the Gamecocks to overcome.

[GTmorris1970]

I can't believe this s**t I'm reading. I have been away for a while. I need to stay off message boards, and hang out with the 'elders' who know where this program has been, and where it is even today. The progress is staggering if you take time to get off the couch and keep up with it. Now Spurrier isn't good enough. Fine. Let him go. There are at least 30 other AD's out there at major programs who would be salivating. Luckily for those of us who still support the cause, Spurrier isn't a quitter like half this stupid a** fan base.

[Cockfan720]

I can't believe this s**t I'm reading. I have been away for a while. I need to stay off message boards, and hang out with the 'elders' who know where this program has been, and where it is even today. The progress is staggering if you take time to get off the couch and keep up with it. Now Spurrier isn't good enough. Fine. Let him go. There are at least 30 other AD's out there at major programs who would be salivating. Luckily for those of us who still support the cause, Spurrier isn't a quitter like half this stupid a** fan base.

I totally agree. People don't realize what we have with Spurrier. He's trying to take our program to the next level...why won't our fans let him. Do they really want to go back to the 3-6 win seasons every year?!!?!

If anyone listens to 107.5 the game in columbia yesterday, Jay Philips did a great job calling out a so-called "fan" claiming that fans shouldn't have to step up to the plate.

Our fans don't realize how far behind we are in facilities and in athletic budget. We've got NO tradition to speak of that a 17 year old would be interested in. Therefore we have to make up for that in facilities, etc.

Spurrier is trying to do some big things here and as a fanbase we shouldn't fight him, but let him take us to the top!!

[GTmorris1970]

I totally agree. People don't realize what we have with Spurrier. He's trying to take our program to the next level...why won't our fans let him. Do they really want to go back to the 3-6 win seasons every year?!!?!

If anyone listens to 107.5 the game in columbia yesterday, Jay Philips did a great job calling out a so-called "fan" claiming that fans shouldn't have to step up to the plate.

Our fans don't realize how far behind we are in facilities and in athletic budget. We've got NO tradition to speak of that a 17 year old would be interested in. Therefore we have to make up for that in facilities, etc.

Spurrier is trying to do some big things here and as a fanbase we shouldn't fight him, but let him take us to the top!!

I have found this about football 'fans'. Some use a football game as a way to go get trashed for a few hours, and only know W-L record when it's all over. They know NOTHING about the team or coaching staff. Many couldn't even name them besides Spurrier.

Many of them don't take time to follow the team, they just read the paper and watch the news. They hear Spurrier's disappointment, so doom and gloom sets in.

Many can tell you all about your team and what their win loss record will be this year, although they couldn't tell you the names of three players on your team.

Some can see the future based on spring ball. Those 'in the know' know spring ball means nothing. That's right. Nothing. It's for the youngsters, not the veterans. The spring game is for entertainment. It means nothing, unless your defense cannot stop your offense. If that is the case, you got problems. It's always funny to me the ones who love to brag about the high scoring spring games. That is a sign of trouble. Nothing to brag about. But some can predict a NC based on spring ball. Amazing. Truth is you don't even know who will be left off that spring ball team. A lot of things happen.

Anyway, Spurrier is building things the right way, block by block. And he feels our ship is starting to sail in. After watching this team in spring and fall since Lou's first year, it is truly amazing the progress he has made here, and I look nothing but forward to the future. Are there question spots, yes. Good news is there isn't a team out there with zero question marks. Ours is no better or worse than anyone else. That's the facts the way I see them.

[Williams-Brice]

I don't think Spurrier is the guy. If I were AD I'd let Spurrier leave gracefully and I'd go after Brian Kelly, Jim Grobe, and Tulsa's OC Guz Malzahn (he will be a head coach somewhere in 2009). We need to stop hiring old guys, I don't give a crap how "legendary" they were in the 1980s or 1990s, that doesn't count for crap in 2008. We need a culture change for sure and it's too bad we can't get rid of our fanbase's attitude, they are all a bunch of Karen Hughes and Scott Mccllelans, they paint a rosey picture when a disaster is happening. Spurrier isn't gonna get it done here, of course getting "it done" here is 8-5 according to our brilliant fanbase, so maybe he will get it done....

Interestingly enough, Spurrier is the first person in the history of Carolina athletics to realize that our facilities and academic support for athletes were both in the stone age. If he doesn't get it done on the field, then finally someone will have fixed the problem in the front office. More money coming in = better facilities = better recruits = more wins. That's all it is, and I don't care who the coach is. Spurrier has had to build this thing from the ground up, and I'm willing to give him time to get better players in here.

[Williams-Brice]

I can't believe this s**t I'm reading. I have been away for a while. I need to stay off message boards, and hang out with the 'elders' who know where this program has been, and where it is even today. The progress is staggering if you take time to get off the couch and keep up with it. Now Spurrier isn't good enough. Fine. Let him go. There are at least 30 other AD's out there at major programs who would be salivating. Luckily for those of us who still support the cause, Spurrier isn't a quitter like half this stupid a** fan base.

Hard to believe that Alabama and Miami, two of the most storied programs in college football history, were knocking down the door two years ago, ready to double his salary, right Morris? Those guys wouldn't make a 60+ year old bum their first choice, would they?

Get rid of Spurrier, and this thing goes back to the hell it was before he got here. I'm not willing to go back. He's putting the pieces together. I can't believe how naive some of y'all clearly were/are. Y'all must have expected Spurrier to win the conference within two years.

What makes me chuckle is that if Sidney had stayed last year, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. What a difference talent makes . . . but, no it's all because we have a geezer as our head coach.

[Williams-Brice]

I totally agree. People don't realize what we have with Spurrier. He's trying to take our program to the next level...why won't our fans let him. Do they really want to go back to the 3-6 win seasons every year?!!?!

If anyone listens to 107.5 the game in columbia yesterday, Jay Philips did a great job calling out a so-called "fan" claiming that fans shouldn't have to step up to the plate.

Our fans don't realize how far behind we are in facilities and in athletic budget. We've got NO tradition to speak of that a 17 year old would be interested in. Therefore we have to make up for that in facilities, etc.

Spurrier is trying to do some big things here and as a fanbase we shouldn't fight him, but let him take us to the top!!

I couldn't believe when that fag called Jay a clown. What a joke. Jay and Duce tell it like it is. Jay was right on the money with that "conversation" with that "fan".

[The Ramp]

from an outsider, this may be the most talented defensive team from SCarl I've seen not too mention a couple of studs on the offense. If you guys don't get 8 wins (which I think you will get at least 8); I'd be PO'd too.

[Cockfan720]

Anyway, Spurrier is building things the right way, block by block. And he feels our ship is starting to sail in. After watching this team in spring and fall since Lou's first year, it is truly amazing the progress he has made here, and I look nothing but forward to the future. Are there question spots, yes. Good news is there isn't a team out there with zero question marks. Ours is no better or worse than anyone else. That's the facts the way I see them.

Absolutely! Spurrier is building this the right way. And personally I'm EXTREMELY excited about the future of Gamecock football. These "fans" are gonna get spoiled here real soon as the HBC is about to deliver some impressive seasons in the near future.

[Cockfan720]

I couldn't believe when that fag called Jay a clown. What a joke. Jay and Duce tell it like it is. Jay was right on the money with that "conversation" with that "fan".

Yeah, I finished up my exams on Monday and was able to listen to Jay all the way to Summerville. Gotta love Jay and Duce. I just love it when they (especially Duce) starts ragging on Clemson fans!!!:thumpsup:

[GamecockDieHard]

I agree to an extent. Spurrier is dragging our program into the 21st century with the raising of ticket prices to remain competitive with our rivals, the facility upgrades that he has personally pushed through, and the upgrading of the talent-level across the board. The next coach is going to walk into a vastly superior situation then the one that Spurs walked into. We just need to go out get a young guy who is a great recruiter. One of our biggest problems over the years has been that our board of testes (not a typo) thinks that this is a destination job. We shouldn't be afraid of hiring someone who could potentially move up the college football food chain after a successful run here.

Spurrier hoped to have the most wins in USC history (but that won't happen). I think if we ever make it to the promised land in cfb, it will be because of Spurrier's efforts while he's here. Regardless if he is the coach when it happens. The longer he stays, the better prepared the program will be when his successor reaps the rewards. I'd like for him to coach for us at least as long as Bowden. But I'm not sure how much he misses his lifestyle in Florida.

[GAMECOCK_FAN]

Spurrier hoped to have the most wins in USC history (but that won't happen).
That's debatable IMO. The most wins any coach has ever had at SC is 64 (Rex Enright). Spurrier currently stands at 21 wins at SC (43 wins from matching that total). If he remains at SC another 5 to 6 years (which I believe is possible), that record is obtainable, assuming he gets an average of 7 to 8 wins a season. Bottom line.....if he really wants the record, he'll get it.

[RW13]

So if Spurrier can't get it done it will never happen right? Yeah. I don't buy that. You guys are fatalists and IMO make excuses. Jim Grobe doesn't make excuses, he wins 11 games (goes to the BCS) and then "drops off" to 9 wins the next year (which would tie the 2nd best season in USC's history). Do we need upgrades? Yes, of course, our facilities are God awful and high school-esque. Do fans need to donate more? Yes. We have the biggest alumni base in the state yet Clemson gets more money from their base. Spurrier is not God. Hyman is not God. Lou Holtz is not God. There are motivated young people who would love a chance to coach/recruit at an SEC school and I'm saying we should give these guys a shot before they go to one of the "premeire" programs. Brian Kelly, will you take the job? Guz Malzahn? 17 year olds can understand and relate to enthusiam. I don't think they (or anyone except for Cubs and Gamecock fans over 35) will relate to excuses though....

[scfan5338]

from an outsider, this may be the most talented defensive team from SCarl I've seen not too mention a couple of studs on the offense. If you guys don't get 8 wins (which I think you will get at least 8); I'd be PO'd too.

No doubt about that man. If we don't upset someone and get a big win at at least get to 8 or 9 and a decent bowl game we'll be pissed, but that doesn't mean that Spurrier's gotta go. You probably wouldn't regonize the talent and talk about it if it wasn't for Spurrier. He has found guys that he knows that play hard and are committted. If it wasn't for his name and prestige, we wouldn't have half of the players on this team that we have. We would have what we had during Holtz's years; a bunch of below average players that committed because we were the ONLY SEC type school to offer them. Spurrier should leave whenever he feels so, but we should not FIRE him because we would not be where we are today without him, in terms of facilitiy upgrades projects and the players on the field. End of story.

[Cockfan720]

So if Spurrier can't get it done it will never happen right? Yeah. I don't buy that. You guys are fatalists and IMO make excuses. Jim Grobe doesn't make excuses, he wins 11 games (goes to the BCS) and then "drops off" to 9 wins the next year (which would tie the 2nd best season in USC's history).

There's just one difference...we're in the SEC. If we had been in the ACC the past 3 years we definatley would have 2 or 3 9-10 win seasons AT LEAST!

[Dr. Pepper]

RW, what is your problem with Spurrier? The longer he stays, the better we get and the better a foundation is built for the next coach (in 7 or 8 years at least, I hope). Spurrier is good for football, for Gamecock football, for Carolina, and for many reasons.

Sure, there are some young coaches now who would love to take a shot at the SEC with the Gamecocks. There will be plenty more ready to take the reigns when Spurrier turns them over. Our next coach may actually be still playing ball somewhere right now. No need to push out experience at this point (or anytime soon).

[Williams-Brice]

So if Spurrier can't get it done it will never happen right? Yeah. I don't buy that. You guys are fatalists and IMO make excuses.

You've never heard that come out of my mouth. Spurrier is building this thing for the future. As many others have said, if he doesn't get it done, then he will have put the program in a situation where the next guy can have a legitimate talent base and financial plan to work with. When Spurrier got here, we had C-USA talent and a C-USA athletics budget. Both are slowly but surely shoring up.

Jim Grobe doesn't make excuses, he wins 11 games (goes to the BCS) and then "drops off" to 9 wins the next year (which would tie the 2nd best season in USC's history).

Jim Grobe is a darn fine football coach. He's going to get gobbled up by a very lucky program at some point. However, you can't sit there and tell me that you can somehow look at the ACC crown as being equivalent to an SEC title.

And when has Spurrier made excuses? All he has said is that he needs to get better players and coach the ones we have better than he has been doing. No excuses. Get the job done with the ones you've got and try your best to get better ones every year.

Do we need upgrades? Yes, of course, our facilities are God awful and high school-esque. Do fans need to donate more? Yes. We have the biggest alumni base in the state yet Clemson gets more money from their base. Spurrier is not God. Hyman is not God. Lou Holtz is not God. There are motivated young people who would love a chance to coach/recruit at an SEC school and I'm saying we should give these guys a shot before they go to one of the "premeire" programs. Brian Kelly, will you take the job? Guz Malzahn? 17 year olds can understand and relate to enthusiam. I don't think they (or anyone except for Cubs and Gamecock fans over 35) will relate to excuses though....

There is a new young guy every year. We've had our fair share. Sparky Woods. Brad Scott. How did those guys turn out? Those guys didn't have a freaking clue, but they were the up and comers at the time. It's all about getting the right guy at the right time, and Spurrier is the right man for this job right now. He is a man who got things done the right way at Florida, and his experience is building this program from the ground up. When he gets it where it needs to be in order that it can go forward, then he'll step aside for that young guy. We need to understand, though, that not all up and comers end up being Mark Richt or Urban Meyer. I'll take my chances right now with Spurrier as opposed to seeing what Brian Kelly or Gus Malzahn can do. My goodness, Malzahn has only been out of high school coaching for a few years.

Things are getting better here. I don't think some of you realize how important coaching stability is. If you we run Spurrier out before the building process is done, then you can forget it. If he doesn't win here, then so be it, but he's going to leave this place going forward, not like any of the guys before him did.

[Williams-Brice]

RW, what is your problem with Spurrier? The longer he stays, the better we get and the better a foundation is built for the next coach (in 7 or 8 years at least, I hope). Spurrier is good for football, for Gamecock football, for Carolina, and for many reasons.

Sure, there are some young coaches now who would love to take a shot at the SEC with the Gamecocks. There will be plenty more ready to take the reigns when Spurrier turns them over. Our next coach may actually be still playing ball somewhere right now. No need to push out experience at this point (or anytime soon).

I feel as though RW's problem is not with Spurrier. It's with life in general. He hasn't had a positive post about anything since he's been here.

[GTmorris1970]

Ya know. It's funny. The SC coaching staff has visited WF during the off season to see what they do. There is a reason. They recruit NO top rated athletes, but win every year. Ya reckon, perhaps, Spurrier and Co. think they can learn something? NO! It can't be so! He has to be in or out. If Spurrier has to go to them for advice, he is out, right? PATHETIC. I have see WF, being a Tech fan. They are very good. And I'm a Tech fan. Talk to an idiot, not me. I'll call your bluff. Some of you need another team to follow. Your not happy. Move on.

[Bulldog Bry]

I fear that '07 was just a down year for Spurrier and co. I think he (and in turn the Gamecocks) will be back strong next year. Get rid of SOS and you're sending a message that you have no patience to win big.

[Williams-Brice]

I fear that '07 was just a down year for Spurrier and co. I think he (and in turn the Gamecocks) will be back strong next year. Get rid of SOS and you're sending a message that you have no patience to win big.

Bry, you get it, and you're an outsider. It's scary that some of our fans can't see what's right in front of them.

[RW13]

It's scary that some of our fans can't see what's right in front of them.

That we agree on. You guys somehow can ignore everything since 1892, and ignore RESULTS. But Potential is what's important, b/c there is always NEXT YEAR, how sad and lame.

[Williams-Brice]

That we agree on. You guys somehow can ignore everything since 1892, and ignore RESULTS. But Potential is what's important, b/c there is always NEXT YEAR, how sad and lame.

What is so hard about seeing that things are being done completely differently here from the way they've been done in the past? When Spurrier got here (and Hyman one year later), the athletics department was completely broke and the football program had virtually no SEC-caliber athletes.

You're right though, no matter how many athletes we can gain or many upgrades we can make in facilities, we should always look back to what's happened since 1892. If you don't think things can ever get done, then just jump ship. It's gotta be pretty boring pulling for a program that you don't think can ever get over the hump.

There is always next year. Potential is definitely important. There's more potential and more things actually becoming a reality than ever before. I can't remember ever seeing one of your posts and not asking myself, "Why does this guy even get out of bed in the morning?"

[RW13]

What is so hard about seeing that things are being done completely differently here from the way they've been done in the past? When Spurrier got here (and Hyman one year later), the athletics department was completely broke and the football program had virtually no SEC-caliber athletes.

You're right though, no matter how many athletes we can gain or many upgrades we can make in facilities, we should always look back to what's happened since 1892. If you don't think things can ever get done, then just jump ship. It's gotta be pretty boring pulling for a program that you don't think can ever get over the hump.

There is always next year. Potential is definitely important. There's more potential and more things actually becoming a reality than ever before. I can't remember ever seeing one of your posts and not asking myself, "Why does this guy even get out of bed in the morning?"

I get out of bed in the morning b/c I don't tie my self-esteem to the success/failure (mostly failure) of 18-22 year olds who play college sports. Maybe if this was like 6 years ago and I was 19 then I would have way more emotionally invested, but the gamecocks success/failure have no bearing on my personal life. Why must you resort to attacking the messenger? That just shows that their are flaws in your argument. It's tough to stomach reality sometimes but you've got to come to grips with that. You can pump sunshine on here all you want but this is why other fanbases laugh at us, b/c of idiots (as far as football discussion goes, I remember reading that you're a med student by day) like you who pretend we're some great program or something. We just went 6-6 and lost 5 in a row. That's cause for calling the program pathetic. It's the players on the team who should be worried about getting out of bed in the morning b/c they embarrassed themselves and have to live with that the rest of their lives. I do not measure myself by that. Watching football is merely a hobby for me, I'm afraid for other cock fans it's how they perceive themselves as people, which explains the excuses (and the inferiority complexes for that matter), grow up guys, that's all I've got to say. There is no santa, and Spurrier isn't jesus.....

[RW13]

If you look at what I said earlier in the thread, I said bring Brian Kelly, Jim Grobe, or Gus Malzahn, b/c I think they are young enough to bring USC success. I am optimistic, but I am cursed with reason and logic and that tells me SOS is not the guy. Let's go younger while we have the shot and get a guy who is in it for the long hall. All it takes is 1 guy to turn everything around and I think we need to move on to one of those guys.....

[Williams-Brice]

Okay, then tell me why Spurrier is not the guy. Why shouldn't we allow Spurrier to continue righting the ship? He had nothing when he got here, and there's no telling what would have happened last year if Sidney had stayed and if Jasper had not gotten hurt. That just goes to show that we're only a few players away. Once Spurrier's time is up here, then we'll go younger. That's a lock. There's no reason not to because a young guy will be able to do build on a foundation that Spurrier built. Joe Morrison left no foundation. Sparky Woods left no foundation. Brad Scott left no foundation. Lou Holtz left no foundation. This thing has been built from the ground up, and it's Spurrier that's doing it.

When he leaves, I'll gladly call for a younger guy, but there's no need in taking a shot on one right now. I don't want another Brad Scott. I don't want another Sparky Woods. We've got the best man for the job today and the future.

[RW13]

You keep mentioning Scott and Woods, Woods was a Div-IAA guy so that has nothing to do with anything and you should cease referencing him during this argument with me b/c it lacks relevancy. Scott was an OC @ FSU, the only OC I mentioned was Malzahn. But that still leaves Grobe and Brian Kelly who are head coaches. And those are only a few names, I say go after a young and hungry head coach who's looking to make a name for himself and win. I believe Spurrier is now too old and doesn't seem dedicated enough to us winning. I want a personality like Mark Richt or Urban Meyer where you know that they are dreaming @ 3am during the month of april of ways to win in late November. Spurrier doesn't strike me as that type. You also keep bringing up the "talking points" of every gamecock excuse maker of saying the program was in shambles or there was no one on the roster. Spurrier did not inherit 1-21. He inherited a 6-5 team with a bunch of top 35 recruiting classes (Holtz era rankings). He promptly took those guys to 7 wins and then 8 wins. Drop the mantra and talking points (you don't work for the Bush white house) and face reality. Georgia fans and Florida fans don't make excuses. Do you realize how young UGA was this season? What do they do? They go out and win 10 games. I'm just tired of excuses. I don't tolerate them in my personal life or in my professional life and I will no longer tolerate from the "sunshine and flowers" gamecock nation. There are those of us in gamecock nation who are able to think objectively, it's time the rest of the fanbase joined us so that we can demand better from our athletics program....

[lacene]

I get out of bed in the morning b/c I don't tie my self-esteem to the success/failure (mostly failure) of 18-22 year olds who play college sports. Maybe if this was like 6 years ago and I was 19 then I would have way more emotionally invested, but the gamecocks success/failure have no bearing on my personal life. Why must you resort to attacking the messenger? That just shows that their are flaws in your argument. It's tough to stomach reality sometimes but you've got to come to grips with that. You can pump sunshine on here all you want but this is why other fanbases laugh at us, b/c of idiots (as far as football discussion goes, I remember reading that you're a med student by day) like you who pretend we're some great program or something. We just went 6-6 and lost 5 in a row. That's cause for calling the program pathetic. It's the players on the team who should be worried about getting out of bed in the morning b/c they embarrassed themselves and have to live with that the rest of their lives. I do not measure myself by that. Watching football is merely a hobby for me, I'm afraid for other cock fans it's how they perceive themselves as people, which explains the excuses (and the inferiority complexes for that matter), grow up guys, that's all I've got to say. There is no santa, and Spurrier isn't jesus.....

While W-B doesn't need my help, I have to agree with him on his opinion of your posting habits. And not just here, but on other USC and SEC boards I've seen you post on. And expressing his opinion of your posts is not "attacking" you, by any means. W-B didn't accuse you of struggling to get out of bed in the morning. He merely stated that your posts give him that impression, which he has every right to post here, and which I agree with. His comments doesn't even register on the "attack" scale like calling someone a "sunshine pumper", or an "idiot" does. So how flawed does that make your argument?


There is a difference in having a pathetic season and a pathetic program. Going 6-6 and losing 5 in a row certainly does NOT give the more rational and mature observer a cause for calling the USC football program pathetic. It's the simple, elementary points like this that seem to constantly slip your grasp.

I'm not overly ecstatic about our football program. I've been observing our series record with our in-state rival for many years - decades, even - and have been observing how the last 28 years have been the WORST performance by the Gamecocks in the series' history, dating back to 1896. But when we discuss performance standards that are spread out over generations, we're simply not going to turn the ship around in 3-5 years. Perhaps not 8-12 years. It's going to take many years and several 4-year classes and even multiple head coaches before we can honestly say our dismal history is truly a thing of the past.

But it's got to start somewhere. I believe that Spurrier IS making major strides towards the direction that we need to be going in. And Spurrier is the kind of a head coach that can help fast-track some of the processes that a young, up-and-coming head coach would struggle with, because of Spurrier's reputation and aura as a successful coach. People will be more inclined to jump in and lend a hand to the cause if Spurrier is there. I think we proved this a bit with the great '07 recruiting class we had after just going 8-5. We went 3-5 in the SEC, and finished BEHIND UK.

If Spurrier can take us to a 8, 9, or 10-win season before he moves on, it will hopefully set the program up for the next coach, who CAN be a young up and coming coach. Then maybe they'll have a better chance to keep us competitive in the SEC than either Woods or Scott made for themselves....

[RW13]

I'm not overly ecstatic about our football program. I've been observing our series record with our in-state rival for many years - decades, even - and have been observing how the last 28 years have been the WORST performance by the Gamecocks in the series' history, dating back to 1896. But when we discuss performance standards that are spread out over generations, we're simply not going to turn the ship around in 3-5 years. Perhaps not 8-12 years. It's going to take many years and several 4-year classes and even multiple head coaches before we can honestly say our dismal history is truly a thing of the past.

But it's got to start somewhere.

We agree on everything accept where it should start. You say another coaching "legend" (Spurrier), I say a fresh start with a younger, more energetic guy. We also both want the same results. So, I'd say were' 95% in the same boat and 5% apart, that's not so bad. I wish you guys would drop the personal stuff though, it's so feminine of both you guys. Seriously, you guys are like gossip queens. It sucks when the "men" in our country these days are you guys......

[lacene]

We agree on everything accept where it should start. You say another coaching "legend" (Spurrier), I say a fresh start with a younger, more energetic guy. We also both want the same results. So, I'd say were' 95% in the same boat and 5% apart, that's not so bad. I wish you guys would drop the personal stuff though, it's so feminine of both you guys. Seriously, you guys are like gossip queens. It sucks when the "men" in our country these days are you guys......

Look, RW, no one is being more personally insulting here than you, but I can give it as good as I get it, and based on your sad posting history here, I can give it better, so think carefully if you really want to go down that path.

And we're not thinking the same....have no clue where you get that idea. The only way your idea works is we just jettison Spurrier right now, and go get that young coach for next season, or 2010. I'm saying what W-B is saying: that Spurrier IS making serious and obvious headway towards building our team's talent and depth, and he's capable of coaching that team to success. I have no doubt of that AT THIS TIME.

I had thought this way with Holtz, after the 8-4 and 9-3 seasons. But the positive progress forward of those seasons can surely be undone with 2-3 seasons of mediocrity, lackluster effort and embarrassing results. The 6-6 season last year was disappointing, but it's being tempered with the fact that we're loading our team with better talent than SOS has had yet. If we still continue to go 6-6, or even 7-5 next year, then perhaps I might wonder about SOS's ability to lead this program to success, as well.

But again, the talent improvements are telling. So are the facility upgrades and funding increases. With the new HC's for the basketball programs, I truly think we may be heading into what might be a Gamecock Golden Age for our athletics. The biggest concerns we had with the fb team last season - defense and special teams - have been addressed, and I think addressed very well. We'll have to see.

But just to say "get rid of Spurrier" - when he has taken us this far, is foolish. He hasn't done anything to deserve it yet. Bring in one of those young coaches, as you say, and we have to re-build our coaching staff again. We have to start all over with establishing relationships with the recruits and high school coaches. The fact simply is you are in a VAST minority right now, so removing SOS from his job means we'd have to start all over with our Gamecock Clubs and alumni, and earn back their trust.

All in the midst of getting this off the ground. We're not ready for that yet, and it would cause so much damage to what Spurrier and Hyman have already started......

[SeanVol]

I do believe that we will do well this year. But, there are still some question marks. I think that Spurrier will turn the question marks to exclamation marks, but I am not going to say he has to win 8-9 games in order to stay. He is here for as long as he wants.

He should stay as long as he wants! It's not like USC was great shape after Holtz left. Spurrier just doesn't have the players like he did at UF. I say SC gets 8 wins this year.

[azamugg]

can I butt in?

interesting thread because if someone could figure it out then there would be no losing teams..........

both sides of this argument obviously have merit........it is true that if you bring the right guy in at the right time a program can make a turn for the best but with it comes the risk of the opposite happening and in that instance you would begin to devolve, completely negating the improvements in image, athletes and facilities that Spurrier has brought

but one has to look at spurrier much like one would look at a Tom Osbourne, both great in their day w/their "brand" of football but things change/evolve and the old saying "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" comes into play...........has the country caught up to Spurrier and now he is not the exception but a tree lost in the forest or is he experiencing natural growing pains and USC is on the brink????

Huge questions but IMO the safest bet is to give Spurrier two more years..........take advantage of his name (which is not as well known to an 17 yr old as it used to be), his success in getting the ball rolling on facilities and let all of that continue, then re-visit the conversation

[RW13]

"Rebuild the coaching staff"???? You mean like a new OC and DC? That's what we're having for 2008 anyways.....

[lacene]

"Rebuild the coaching staff"???? You mean like a new OC and DC? That's what we're having for 2008 anyways.....

First off, we only have a new DC. And if you say "what about Jr. calling more plays?", what significantly new changes do you think Jr. will bring to the table? He'll be calling SOS's plays....

Second, even if we DID bring in a new OC and DC, we'd be doing it all over again as I've already said. USC doesn't need anymore turmoil like that....the risk/rewards at this stage would go against USC.....

[lacene]

can I butt in?

interesting thread because if someone could figure it out then there would be no losing teams..........

both sides of this argument obviously have merit........it is true that if you bring the right guy in at the right time a program can make a turn for the best but with it comes the risk of the opposite happening and in that instance you would begin to devolve, completely negating the improvements in image, athletes and facilities that Spurrier has brought

but one has to look at spurrier much like one would look at a Tom Osbourne, both great in their day w/their "brand" of football but things change/evolve and the old saying "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" comes into play...........has the country caught up to Spurrier and now he is not the exception but a tree lost in the forest or is he experiencing natural growing pains and USC is on the brink????

Huge questions but IMO the safest bet is to give Spurrier two more years..........take advantage of his name (which is not as well known to an 17 yr old as it used to be), his success in getting the ball rolling on facilities and let all of that continue, then re-visit the conversation

You're right, Aza. The thing is, after the 8-5 season of '06, no one was freaking out like this. You hardly saw RW13 coming around here. The great recruiting class had Gamecock fans excited for what the future had in store. All this after going 3-5 in the SEC. The '06 was a respectable season, but not a great one, IMO. But it didn't make anyone think that we weren't still on track to greater things ahead.

Halfway into '07, even though Spurrier was telling everyone that we were'nt as good as we looked, we made it to 6-1, 3-1 in the East and #6 in the nation. Then it fell apart: 5 straight losses and a lower-ranked recruiting class than we expected. Now we have people wanting to get rid of Spurrier, because of that one half-season?

And while Spurrier didn't start his job here with absolutely nothing, he didn't have a great team with talent either. He HAS had to build the program up. Every where I go, I see the general perception is that the talent that we have on our team right now is some of the best we've ever had on one squad. I'm saying give SOS a chance to prove that the game has passed him by, like Holtz proved with '02, '03 and '04. So far IMO - despite that one half-season, Spurrier has been leading our football program on an upward direction. Not a good enough reason to start clamoring for a new coach....

Again, good comments, Aza....I have to spread it, but I got my eye on you. :laugh::thumpsup:

[Williams-Brice]

You keep mentioning Scott and Woods, Woods was a Div-IAA guy so that has nothing to do with anything and you should cease referencing him during this argument with me b/c it lacks relevancy.

It's definitely relevant. It doesn't have to be relevant to you in order for it to have merit. There are plenty of guys who came from Div-1AA and had success at the Div-1A level. The most notable is Jim Tressell. You can also look at Paul Johnson.

Scott was an OC @ FSU, the only OC I mentioned was Malzahn. But that still leaves Grobe and Brian Kelly who are head coaches. And those are only a few names, I say go after a young and hungry head coach who's looking to make a name for himself and win.

And I say there's a new hot young name every year. When Spurrier ends up fixing this thing, we can go get one then because there will be just as many then as there are today.

I believe Spurrier is now too old and doesn't seem dedicated enough to us winning. I want a personality like Mark Richt or Urban Meyer where you know that they are dreaming @ 3am during the month of april of ways to win in late November. Spurrier doesn't strike me as that type.

Spurrier said he didn't sleep for two months after the Clemson game. I guarantee you that Spurrier hasn't lost the edge that he has always had. Spurrier recruits year round and busts his butt at it. That's something he never had to do at Florida, but he's pouring everything he's got into it here. There is nothing that has happened that should have given you the impression that Spurrier has lost his competitive fire.

You also keep bringing up the "talking points" of every gamecock excuse maker of saying the program was in shambles or there was no one on the roster. Spurrier did not inherit 1-21. He inherited a 6-5 team with a bunch of top 35 recruiting classes (Holtz era rankings).

Holtz's recruiting classes were ranked based on tons of JUCO prospects and guys who never even made it into Columbia. Several of the players Holtz left here were kicked off the team for poor work ethics. Moe Thompson was kicked off the team for breaking into some of my friends' dorm room. Meat was a pothead. Spurrier inherited Sidney Rice and not much more. This program was in shambles. It wasn't 1-21, but it wasn't much better. It wasn't worth a dime.



And in no way am I in attack mode. Your posting history here is one of doom and gloom. I haven't attacked you once. You're the one saying that it's sad that I'm considered one of America's men. I don't know how you get that off of a sports message board. Get over yourself. There's no need for me try to justify myself. I'm not going to touch that.

[Williams-Brice]

"Rebuild the coaching staff"???? You mean like a new OC and DC? That's what we're having for 2008 anyways.....

That's hardly rebuilding the staff. That's called a coaching rollover, not a coaching carousel. One of the main problems with this program is that fans, like you, expect the job to be done in 3 years. If it's not, then let the next guy get a shot. Then you gotta go get a new staff and give them a year to forge relationships with high school staffs. We just brought in a DC with relationships with about 95% of the high school coaches in South Carolina. Every staff has rollovers every year. Our's needs to get more accustomed to that, rather than getting a new staff every 3-5 years.

[Williams-Brice]

take advantage of his name (which is not as well known to an 17 yr old as it used to be)

That's a very fair and valid point, but his name is still very powerful among the high school coaches in the South, particularly in Florida, and that's the only reason we've been so successful recruiting that state since he's been here. There's still an opportunity to take advantage of his name; you're right about that.

[Williams-Brice]

Threads like these wouldn't exist if our guys had gotten off the freaking bus against Vanderbilt.

[RW13]

Threads like these wouldn't exist if our guys had gotten off the freaking bus against Vanderbilt.

Or fallen on an Arian Foster fumble with 30 seconds to go in the 4th quarter, the ball went through 3 of our guys. Vandy just flat out dominated us (at least dominated our offensive line, the defense actually only surrendered 10 points, they had an INT for a TD early on, so our "d" played quite well, makes you wonder where our OL and QB's minds were that day....)

[Williams-Brice]

Or fallen on an Arian Foster fumble with 30 seconds to go in the 4th quarter, the ball went through 3 of our guys. Vandy just flat out dominated us (at least dominated our offensive line, the defense actually only surrendered 10 points, they had an INT for a TD early on, so our "d" played quite well, makes you wonder where our OL and QB's minds were that day....)

Now, that we can agree on. I just feel like if we had beaten Vanderbilt, we would have rolled on Tennessee. That's just the way it goes. So many chances. We were so freaking close.

[Gamecocks4Ever]

I don't think Spurrier is the guy. If I were AD I'd let Spurrier leave gracefully and I'd go after Brian Kelly, Jim Grobe, and Tulsa's OC Guz Malzahn (he will be a head coach somewhere in 2009). We need to stop hiring old guys, I don't give a crap how "legendary" they were in the 1980s or 1990s, that doesn't count for crap in 2008.

Part of the problem is that we've just hired two up and coming coaches for our basketball programs, so now everyone wants to go crazy, dump Spurrier, and hire another "young, enthusiactic, hard-working" coach. Now while I do love both hires for our basketball program, just remember one thing.....NEITHER COACH HAS WON A FREAKING GAME HERE YET! Don't get addicted to the young coach Koolaid without even seeing those results that you seem to be so obsessed with.

And as for Kelly, Grobe, and Malzahn...do you really think either one of them would be stupid enough to go to a school that wouldn't give Spurrier the benefit of a 4th year?

[RW13]

Part of the problem is that we've just hired two up and coming coaches for our basketball programs, so now everyone wants to go crazy, dump Spurrier, and hire another "young, enthusiactic, hard-working" coach. Now while I do love both hires for our basketball program, just remember one thing.....NEITHER COACH HAS WON A FREAKING GAME HERE YET! Don't get addicted to the young coach Koolaid without even seeing those results that you seem to be so obsessed with.

And as for Kelly, Grobe, and Malzahn...do you really think either one of them would be stupid enough to go to a school that wouldn't give Spurrier the benefit of a 4th year?

I've been saying Brian Kelly and Grobe since November, and Malzahn since December, the basketball situation has no bearing on me, that's not a sport I'm really that into. BTW, I'm not advocating firing spurrier in May and hiring these other guys, I'm saying let the guy go out gracefully if he doesn't win 8 games in the regular season.....

[GTmorris1970]

As bad as things may seem, I never thought I would hear a Carolina 'fan' bashing Spurrier, but let's at least get the facts straight.

Carolina means so much to Steve Spurrier he has dumped his own money into the athletic program to help with facility upgrades, and I'm not talking a hundred bucks either.

To think losing doesn't kill him means you have not taken time to study up on him. Spurrier HATES losing. It's eats at time night and day. This isn't fun for him either. What is fun for him is knowing he is so close to being an absolute bastard for anyone that has to play him. Yes, we lost five in a row last year. That may turn out to be one of the best things to ever happen to Gamecock football. It allowed us to get two of the better coaches out there. I liked Nix. I really did. Simple fact is he is not an SEC caliber DC. Period. We now have a guy that can take a group of average at best football players and shut you down with them. It's much easier to win when the opponent isn't scoring. The two areas that killed us last year is what he immediately went to work on at seasons end.

You can call whoever you want idiots, but being of such high IQ I'm sure you already know that building sustained success takes time. Spurrier isn't going after one SEC title. He is trying to build a program that reloads instead of rebuilds from year to year. A program that is successful over the long haul. With the history of this school you refer to, it seems you would understand that takes years to do, not a single season. As WB said, he started with absolutely nothing. I guess you have also forgotten we were right in the mix late in the year a couple of years ago to go to Atlanta. So we are already pretty dang close. For me, some of the teams he has beaten with the talent he had is nothing short of amazing, and shows he does still have it. I will also say again something I have said many times in the past. You will not outcoach him on gameday. If you want to get into a battle of minds with him, your gonna lose. Our issue has been serious lack of talent and depth, not Steve Spurrier. He is fixing that as well. Carolina now looks like an SEC team. The size and speed of their athletes is phenomenal compared to the past.

That is not sunshine pumping, that is the facts. Do what you will with them.

[GatorNation]

There's no point in arguing....

SOS said his window is about 3-4 years (from now), and if he hasn't gotten it done by then, he's probably going to leave SC and let someone else take a stab at it.

So, he's either going to do it, or he's only going to be around for one more recruiting cycle...

[Hawginitall]

Or fallen on an Arian Foster fumble with 30 seconds to go in the 4th quarter, the ball went through 3 of our guys. Vandy just flat out dominated us (at least dominated our offensive line, the defense actually only surrendered 10 points, they had an INT for a TD early on, so our "d" played quite well, makes you wonder where our OL and QB's minds were that day....)

That to me is the biggest problem with Carolina taking the next step. The skill players have been good enough, but the offensive and defensive lines get manhandled too often. Spurrier needs to bite the bullet and get rid of his o-line coach. They've been together a long time, I'm sure it would be hard. But he needs to go out and get a top o-line coach with a history of putting players in the pro's. Schools are known for developing certain positions, and the best players want to go somewhere where they have a shot at the pro's. Until SC fixes the o-line, they won't make it to the top of the SEC.

[GTmorris1970]

That to me is the biggest problem with Carolina taking the next step. The skill players have been good enough, but the offensive and defensive lines get manhandled too often. Spurrier needs to bite the bullet and get rid of his o-line coach. They've been together a long time, I'm sure it would be hard. But he needs to go out and get a top o-line coach with a history of putting players in the pro's. Schools are known for developing certain positions, and the best players want to go somewhere where they have a shot at the pro's. Until SC fixes the o-line, they won't make it to the top of the SEC.

I agree. The defensive line should be VERY good this year, but the O line is always a mystery.

[Hawginitall]

I also think Johnson is a major upgrade as DC. He put a very good defense on the field every year at MSU, and I hated to see Arkansas lose him to the Gamecocks.

[Cockfan720]

I also think Johnson is a major upgrade as DC. He put a very good defense on the field every year at MSU, and I hated to see Arkansas lose him to the Gamecocks.

Too bad we can't test him against DMac. haha Thank god we have a new coord. The end of last year was brutal.

[GetEmGamecocks]

Wow I've been away too long! I didn't realize my little old thread got so many replies, thankya. I'll enjoy reading it when its not 2 AM and I don't have an 8 AM class :sad:

[Poppycock]

Does anyone else agree that if we don't win at least 8 games in 08-09, we should look for a new ball coach? I think so. I wanted to get some opinions from folks who um, have more of a clue about what they're talking about.
You're right about two things.
#1. You don't have a clue
#2. You don't know what your talking about

That's the most ridiculous statement I've heard to date. Do you know how many teams would love to have our coach?

[Neo]

Whoever thinks that we should fire Spurrier needs a CAT scan ASAP!

I swear some of these so-called USC fans need to be more realistic with their goals. This 3-year make it or break it is insane.

[MBGamecock]

Whoever thinks that we should fire Spurrier needs a CAT scan ASAP!

I swear some of these so-called USC fans need to be more realistic with their goals. This 3-year make it or break it is insane.


Yeah......What he said.:thumpsup:

[volimhtown]

Whoever thinks that we should fire Spurrier needs a CAT scan ASAP!

I swear some of these so-called USC fans need to be more realistic with their goals. This 3-year make it or break it is insane.

Holy Crap!!! DeloreanFan lives DeloreanFan lives!! :thumpsup::laugh::laugh:

[MBGamecock]

Holy Crap!!! DeloreanFan lives DeloreanFan lives!! :thumpsup::laugh::laugh:



I actually saw him online this morning!!!! I don't know what the special occasion was.:laugh:

[Neo]

I actually saw him online this morning!!!! I don't know what the special occasion was.:laugh:



Yeah!

I had a lot of stuff to take care of. I'm slowly but surely getting back up to speed so to speak. :thumpsup:

Nice to see ya VOL and MB.

[RW13]

3 year make or break is insane, so is hiring a 60 year old and expecting them to stick around for a significant amount of time and be successful. My whole point was to start younger and let's keep a guy for 10 years or more. Not hire another retread who isn't that motivated.....

[RW13]

As I was saying...............

[DJShockisBack]

This thread is pretty funny now.

[RW13]

This thread is pretty funny now.

Understatement of the year for sure! Nice to have you back DJ

[GetEmGamecocks]

3 year make or break is insane, so is hiring a 60 year old and expecting them to stick around for a significant amount of time and be successful. My whole point was to start younger and let's keep a guy for 10 years or more. Not hire another retread who isn't that motivated.....

Spurrier is as motivated as any football coach in the country. This is probably his last job, and he wants to go out on top, especially after his bid with the Redskins. As far as I'm concerned, he can stick around as long as he wants until some younger, more "up-and-coming" coach takes control. That being said, we have got to put together a nice season somehow...or I'll be pissed:excl:

[cocky4ever]

We dont need to get rid of Spurrier, but someone sure as hell needs to pressure him to fire John Hunt. I dont see how that guy still has a job:brick: