Nation's 'worst teachers' offered $10K to quit

[crawfish]

You've got to love this story! There a few of my old teachers I would like to see receive the 10K!


BOSTON (AP) — Critics who say unions block education reforms and make it virtually impossible to fire bad teachers will offer 10 instructors it deems the nation's worst $10,000 to quit their careers. The Center for Union Facts, a Washington-based nonprofit, will launch a campaign Tuesday spending $1 million on ads and a billboard in New York's Times Square. It also says it's starting a Web site with data documenting how far unions go to protect bad teachers.

It's also inviting nominations for a contest to determine the nation's worst unionized teachers. The "winners" will be offered $10,000 each if they permanently resign or retire from any career in education — if they sign a release agreeing to have their name and the reasons for their selection published by the group. Rick Berman — the center's executive director and a former labor lawyer who has represented auto and steel workers — declined to offer specifics on his group's supporters. He said that the organization has spent about $6 million since its founding in February 2006 and that it opposes union corruption and intimidation, not unions in general, he said.

Read the entire story of "Nation's 'worst teachers' offered $10K to quit" (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/03/11/worstteacher.html?COXnetJSessionIDbuild81_prod=SNX DHXyJ1NyGhJYQZXp4c6hJpRG21td1QXZHpMT5DTHvgrLm3n9n!-722836716&imw=Y&UrAuth=`NbNUObNVUbTTUWUXUaUZT[U]UWU\U\UZUaUbUcTYWYWZV&urcm=y)

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/badteach.jpg http://www.ndt-ed.org/TeachingResources/Graphics/Bad_Teaching.jpg

[bulldawg]

Maybe if they added 10 grand to their salaries they would become better teachers. I't kills me that most teachers spend upwards of $50 grand to get their degree and only make $30,000 a year on average.

I say pay professional athletes $50,000 a year and pay your teachers, firefighters, cops, and military the big salaries. They actually earn it.

[BamaDude06]

$30,000 a year? Where have you got that? STARTING salary in the school system I attended (which put of the 12 or so systems in my county probably came in 8th or 9th on salary list) was close to $35-40,000. That didn't include things such as coaching/sponsor extras that all coaches, band directors, drama teachers, etc. get for doing their extracurriculars. Don't be fooled by teacher unions. Teachers make more than you think.

[the Paradox]

$30,000 a year? Where have you got that? STARTING salary in the school system I attended (which put of the 12 or so systems in my county probably came in 8th or 9th on salary list) was close to $35-40,000. That didn't include things such as coaching/sponsor extras that all coaches, band directors, drama teachers, etc. get for doing their extracurriculars. Don't be fooled by teacher unions. Teachers make more than you think.

Amen brother.


RTR

[AUChamps]

Unions are corrupt and have served their purpose. We're now to the point where the Gov't has enough laws on the books to protect worker's rights that we don't need Unions by and large. It also didn't help that Unions got greedy and allowed for the mob to come in and lead them away from where they started in the late 1800s(which to be honest as well, tended to have Socialist/Progressive tendencies that were just as corrupt). Bottom line: get rid of tenure and make every state right-to-work. When you can hire and fire at will, you gain a better workforce. Now, to nations that are from an industrial and human rights standpoint where we were 50-100 years ago, they do need Unions and Workers Rights(minus the corruption, Socialism, and other elements).

[BamaDude06]

Especially the AEA....they basically run the state of Alabama.

[autiger1126]

not to mention they get summers off

[bigsexxxy]

$30,000 a year? Where have you got that? STARTING salary in the school system I attended (which put of the 12 or so systems in my county probably came in 8th or 9th on salary list) was close to $35-40,000. That didn't include things such as coaching/sponsor extras that all coaches, band directors, drama teachers, etc. get for doing their extracurriculars. Don't be fooled by teacher unions. Teachers make more than you think.

Where in Alabama are you from? 35K a year really isn't that much.

[BamaDude06]

For a 22-23 year old? I think so. The average salary for a management major i graduating from UA in 2000 was between 35,000-40,000 (If you throw out Shaun Alexander's salary ;) ). Most teachers, at least at my high school, also did some kind of extracurricular which paid them a few thousand on top. As has been said before, they only work about 36 weeks a year. At 40 hours per week (most teachers don't even work that) at 36 weeks per year thats just over $24 an hour. Throw in the automatic raise they get when they get tenure most are clearing $40,000 easily within three years. Let me put it this way. Go look in the faculty parking lot at your local high school. Notice the cars they are driving. They aren't hurting like their unions claim they are.

[Gamecocks4Ever]

There are teachers in my district making $70000+ and we're one of the worst paid districts in the state. In addition, if teachers want to take tests and get various certifications, they can easily increase their salary. Funny thing is, they detest taking tests. How hypocritical.

[Tennessee Ted]

What I found to be complete BS was when I was getting my teaching certificate to student teach I had to work as a teacher for 10 weeks in a school. So, I could not work another job while I was doing this because I was crazy busy. I was working forty plus hours a week for no pay and on top of that I had to pay DePaul University like 7 grand to work my arse off. Of course there are no benefits given during this time, so you have to provide for yourself.

[bulldawg]

$30,000 a year? Where have you got that? STARTING salary in the school system I attended (which put of the 12 or so systems in my county probably came in 8th or 9th on salary list) was close to $35-40,000. That didn't include things such as coaching/sponsor extras that all coaches, band directors, drama teachers, etc. get for doing their extracurriculars. Don't be fooled by teacher unions. Teachers make more than you think.

I guess Alabama is better for teachers than most. In my part of central FL. the average starting salary is $30,000 to $34,000. After union dues, insurance, and retirement thats not much (unless your still sponging at home with mom and dad) especially with college loans to pay off.

Also what someone drives or where they live is no indication of someones financial wealth. Being mortgaged to the hilt is quite the norm for people these days. Living above ones means is common with gas as high as it is.

[gatorunvrsty]

I guess Alabama is better for teachers than most. In my part of central FL. the average starting salary is $30,000 to $34,000. After union dues, insurance, and retirement thats not much (unless your still sponging at home with mom and dad) especially with college loans to pay off.

Also what someone drives or where they live is no indication of someones financial wealth. Being mortgaged to the hilt is quite the norm for people these days. Living above ones means is common with gas as high as it is.

Yeah, some folks have no idea what they're talking about. First, I've never heard of any elementary or high school teachers making $70,000. That's what my father's final salary was, as a college professor, after 30 years of teaching, with a doctorate degree, and as head of his department.:wacko: Also, the idea that teachers get 3 months off is ridiculous. They just aren't actually teaching students during the summer... they still have to work, in the way of preparing the next year's curriculum, copying countless handouts, going to conferences, getting re-certified, etc.. It takes 3 months without students to adequately prepare for a school year. They'll get a few weeks of vacation time, and less strenuous hours; but that's it... and, after 9 months of kids these days, they need every minute they can get without stress.

Managers at McDonalds start off around $35,000 a year. I agree that priorities have gotten pretty screwed up in this country... our values are backwards in a lot of instances. Teachers should be the highest paid profession, imho; and eventually, when there are enough morons running around and we've lost our competitive edge in the financial, technical, and manufacturing world (most say we already have), maybe the powers that be will take a more serious look and pressing stance on the issue. But, just like with most issues in this country, we tend to wait until something's broken beyond repair before doing something about it. Shame we aren't more proactive... something's definitely broken when high school seniors are graduating without the ability to read and write at even a 4th or 5th grade level; and it happens more frequently than most care to admit.

Starting Teacher Salaries For Southeastern States:

Alabama - $31,310
Arkansas - $29,725
Florida - $30,997
Georgia - $30,441
Kentucky - $28,793
Louisiana - $29,150
Mississippi - $30,000
South Carolina - $26,289
Tennessee - $30,304

That's absolutely deplorable. No wonder the southeastern states consistently rank at the very bottom of the list where public education is concerned. South Carolina is the worst... hell, I could make more than that working at WalMart... that's about $9.00 an hour. And like someone else said, after dues and loans, it's like making minimum wage... to educate, shape, and mold our young people. Pathetic.:ohbfrank:

[bulldawg]

Up in NYC teachers start around $70,000 but of course the cost of living is ridiculous and the average price of a house is around a half mill.

[volimhtown]

Not to mention the sh!t they have to take from a$$hole parents and their disrespectful kids. I am absolutley and continually disguisted at how disrespectful kids are these days to their teachers. The stuff my 14 year old daughter tells me about is unbelievable. Sad thing is, there's little a teacher can do these days to reprimand or even verbally defend themselves from the constant, smart-a$$ tirade. The sad part is, if they do defend themselves, they usually have the wonderful parent of the little anti-christ their to defend their precious child.
Furthermore, if the kids don't succeed, it's always 100% the teachers' fault. Our society lays practically zero responsibility on the parents who have their priorities so mixed up, they have little knowledge of what's happening in their childs' life until the cops or Jerry Springer comes calling. Don't get me started....
This story and subsequent thread is so typical and is what's glaringly wrong with our society. Tell you what....as soon as we even BEGIN to place the value of good a teacher somewhere even on your priority list and we begin treating them with the respect they deserve, then and ONLY then should we concern ourselves with eliminating the few "bad eggs".

[AUTiger94]

$30,000 a year? Where have you got that? STARTING salary in the school system I attended (which put of the 12 or so systems in my county probably came in 8th or 9th on salary list) was close to $35-40,000. That didn't include things such as coaching/sponsor extras that all coaches, band directors, drama teachers, etc. get for doing their extracurriculars. Don't be fooled by teacher unions. Teachers make more than you think.

Wow! $40,000 and that is w/ a masters. How much extra do you think coaches get? If they aren't the head varsity FB coach it isn't worth even mentioning especially since those extra duties double your workload and time commitment. I can't believe I accidentally gave you a f-ing high five for that drivel. Check your facts and learn the value of a dollar and a college education and walk a mile in our shoes before suggesting that teachers make enough money.

[BamaDude06]

Wow! $40,000 and that is w/ a masters. How much extra do you think coaches get? If they aren't the head varsity FB coach it isn't worth even mentioning especially since those extra duties double your workload and time commitment. I can't believe I accidentally gave you a f-ing high five for that drivel. Check your facts and learn the value of a dollar and a college education and walk a mile in our shoes before suggesting that teachers make enough money.

I'm sorry, but the fact still remains, teaching is a 10 month a year job. I'm sorry I don't buy into the whole "we are so underpaid" crap the AEA spews.

How about this. If you want to pay teachers more, how about merging school districts and using the extra money there. Jefferson County (AL) has TWELVE public school systems if IIRC. Thats 12 superintendents, 12 school boards, etc. Think of the millions that could be saved and put back to teachers just in administrative costs.

[crawfish]

Bottom line: the system is broke....starting with the parents!

[BamaDude06]

Bottom line: the system is broke....starting with the parents!

And the teacher's union (at least in AL). Our state government doesn't sneeze without making sure Paul Hubbard is ok with it.

[bulldawg]

Go try and teach and then tell me that they are paid enough. There is a reason why the US is far under the national average when it comes to education. What since does it make to pay a politician millions and teachers pennies. Its not a union thing as much as you make it to be. I wouldn't do a teachers job for 50 grand a year much less the shitty salary they get. They deserve every penny and then some.


In order to have a great progressive society you have to start with the basics like education. In order to get the best teachers and give our kids the best chance to be successful you need to make the teaching job more appealing.

A decent salary at the least is a good start.

[AUChamps]

And the teacher's union (at least in AL). Our state government doesn't sneeze without making sure Paul Hubbard is ok with it.
Paul Hubbard made a deal with the devil. The man had triple and quadruple heart bypass surgeries in 1989 and 2005 and the man just keeps on ticking.

He made just as much a Faustian deal with the devil as George Wallace did in order to have power for life.

[AUChamps]

Go try and teach and then tell me that they are paid enough. There is a reason why the US is far under the national average when it comes to education. What since does it make to pay a politician millions and teachers pennies. Its not a union thing as much as you make it to be. I wouldn't do a teachers job for 50 grand a year much less the shitty salary they get. They deserve every penny and then some.


In order to have a great progressive society you have to start with the basics like education. In order to get the best teachers and give our kids the best chance to be successful you need to make the teaching job more appealing.

A decent salary at the least is a good start.
I didn't like former Gov. Barnes, but God bless him for having the nuts to take tenure out of Georgia classrooms for new teachers. And good luck to Sonny and the Republicans in the State Capital in ensuring that tenure never returns to the classroom.

[azamugg]

Yeah, some folks have no idea what they're talking about. First, I've never heard of any elementary or high school teachers making $70,000. That's what my father's final salary was, as a college professor, after 30 years of teaching, with a doctorate degree, and as head of his department.:wacko: Also, the idea that teachers get 3 months off is ridiculous. They just aren't actually teaching students during the summer... they still have to work, in the way of preparing the next year's curriculum, copying countless handouts, going to conferences, getting re-certified, etc.. It takes 3 months without students to adequately prepare for a school year. They'll get a few weeks of vacation time, and less strenuous hours; but that's it... and, after 9 months of kids these days, they need every minute they can get without stress.

Managers at McDonalds start off around $35,000 a year. I agree that priorities have gotten pretty screwed up in this country... our values are backwards in a lot of instances. Teachers should be the highest paid profession, imho; and eventually, when there are enough morons running around and we've lost our competitive edge in the financial, technical, and manufacturing world (most say we already have), maybe the powers that be will take a more serious look and pressing stance on the issue. But, just like with most issues in this country, we tend to wait until something's broken beyond repair before doing something about it. Shame we aren't more proactive... something's definitely broken when high school seniors are graduating without the ability to read and write at even a 4th or 5th grade level; and it happens more frequently than most care to admit.

Starting Teacher Salaries For Southeastern States:

Alabama - $31,310
Arkansas - $29,725
Florida - $30,997
Georgia - $30,441
Kentucky - $28,793
Louisiana - $29,150
Mississippi - $30,000
South Carolina - $26,289
Tennessee - $30,304

That's absolutely deplorable. No wonder the southeastern states consistently rank at the very bottom of the list where public education is concerned. South Carolina is the worst... hell, I could make more than that working at WalMart... that's about $9.00 an hour. And like someone else said, after dues and loans, it's like making minimum wage... to educate, shape, and mold our young people. Pathetic.:ohbfrank:




pops finished 30 yrs of teaching at $70,000 w/a phd? he chose the wrong college then or he retired twenty years ago...

Earnings for college faculty vary according to rank and type of institution, geographic area, and field. According to a 2006-07 survey by the American Association of University Professors, salaries for full-time faculty averaged $73,207. By rank, the average was $98,974 for professors, $69,911 for associate professors, $58,662 for assistant professors, $42,609 for instructors, and $48,289 for lecturers. Faculty in 4-year institutions earn higher salaries, on average, than do those in 2-year schools. In 2006-07, faculty salaries averaged $84,249 in private independent institutions, $71,362 in public institutions, and $66,118 in religiously affiliated private colleges and universities. In fields with high-paying nonacademic alternatives—medicine, law, engineering, and business, among others—earnings exceed these averages

my sister has been teaching HS for twenty years, so I would say I have a good source too and she said its cush and w/a masters is making $52,000 and she works for a mortgage company during the summer....shes not laboring "making copies of countless handouts, planning nxt yrs curriculum" as you say

[PuddingTime]

I don't have exact figures....but I know the average teacher here in Kentucky isn't making 70K.....more like 25-30K a year.

[timNem]

My wife's starting salary was around $27,000. The salaries fluctuate with all the different school districts, some pay better than others. She just finished her Master's and will get a $5,000/yr raise.

I think the bigger issue than teachers' salaries would be overhauling the system where the teachers who don't perform will get axed like anyone else who works other jobs. Alot of teachers once they get tenured, take the Gravy Train approach to teaching.

My wife refuses to join the AEA and NEA. Im proud of her.

[BamaDude06]

My wife's starting salary was around $27,000. The salaries fluctuate with all the different school districts, some pay better than others. She just finished her Master's and will get a $5,000/yr raise.

I think the bigger issue than teachers' salaries would be overhauling the system where the teachers who don't perform will get axed like anyone else who works other jobs. Alot of teachers once they get tenured, take the Gravy Train approach to teaching.

My wife refuses to join the AEA and NEA. Im proud of her.

That's the biggest problem. My Algebra 1 teacher was old and senile, and dumber than a rock, but he was tenure so the school could not get rid of him. My Algebra 2 teacher essentially had to combine the two classes since we had learned little the previous year.

I almost became an education major, and I had decided I was not going to join AEA if I did. I'm glad there are teachers out there that feel the same.

[Tator]

First off, unions - all unions - are a fast track to mediocrity. As someone else pointed out, they once served a purpose, but have since fallen into corruption, complacency, greed (Ex: the United Auto Workers many shakedowns of GM) and are no longer necessary with the current set of Federal and state laws now in effect.

Tenure should be removed permanently, with no “grandfathering” for those who already hold tenure. Tenure basically adds an extra level of difficulty in attempts to remove bad teachers.

As far as Teacher’s pay, I think they should be paid AT LEAST $100,000 a year. They are the ones educating our children who also happen to be our and the nation’s future. Someone with such an important profession should be compensated accordingly. With that said, however, the standards by which teachers are judged effective should be tripled to go along with this pay increase. Also, any pay increases should be based solely upon the teacher’s personal performance, not upon a time scale.

Continuing on the subject of teacher’s pay, no one has pointed out the value of the benefits that teachers receive. State guaranteed retirement, health insurance, etc., should be factored into determining that amount of compensation that teachers currently receive. The State of Louisiana’s guaranteed retirement system for teachers is something that most workers could only dream about. John Doe puts his money into a 401K or other investment vehicle, and has to ride the ups and downs of the market and could take a significant loss in the amount of money with which they retire. Teachers, on the other hand, do not have to worry about these pitfalls since the state acts as a buffer to any market variation. That’s an extremely valuable benefit if you ask me.

The final point that I would like to make is that teachers became teachers because they chose to do so. They knew beforehand that the salary was not as significant as it should be, but went into the field anyway. That says two things to me; 1. That most all teachers become teachers because they want to teach, in spite of the salary offered. 2. That most teachers get more of a reward by helping children learn and progress in life than any salary could provide. This fact has given all of us at least one teacher that stands out in our minds when we list the people that most impacted our lives, even if this realization comes from hindsight.

So, from a silver lining point of view, one could say that the current system, with its low salary, has given us teachers that are teaching because they have a passion for teaching and an honest need to do well by their students. This doesn’t mean that I think that teachers shouldn’t be paid more, or that we aren’t missing out on some very good teachers because they are turned off by the low salary. Just that, like humanitarian efforts, the most good comes from those who are in it for the doing of good, rather than for the compensation.

[autiger1126]

there is no way in hell that teachers deserve to make more than some doctors or engineers.

If you want to pay them more, that's fine, but I'd do it on a sliding scale, where teachers are tested in a given field that they wish to specialize in, and if they're good enough in it, they can teach 12th grade molecular biology. They deserve to be making more than the 1st grade art teacher.

[crawfish]

High school test scores unimpressive yet grades, transcripts improving, government finds (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/23/ap/national/mainD8NF4AC00.shtml)

(AP) Large percentages of high school seniors are posting weak scores on national math and reading tests even though more of them are taking challenging courses and getting higher grades in school, say two new government reports released Thursday. "The reality is that the results don't square," said Darvin Winick, chair of the independent National Assessment Governing Board, which oversees the national tests. Nearly 40 percent of high school seniors scored below the basic level on the math test. More than a quarter of seniors failed to reach the basic level on the reading test. Most educators think students ought to be able to work at the basic level.

The reading scores show no change since 2002, the last time the tests were given. "We should be getting better. There's nothing good about a flat score," Winick said. The government said it could not compare the math results to old scores because the latest test was significantly different.

The National Assessment of Educational Progress _ often called the nation's report card _ is viewed as the best way to compare students across the country because it's the only uniform national yardstick for how well students are learning. The tests were given in 2005. The government released the scores Thursday along with a report examining the high school transcripts of 2005 graduates. The transcript study shows high school students are earning more credits, taking more challenging courses and getting higher grade-point averages than in the past.

In 2005, high school graduates had an overall grade-point average just shy of 3.0 _ or about a B. That has gone up from a grade-point average of about 2.7 in 1990. It is unclear whether student performance has improved or whether grade inflation or something else might be responsible, the report said. More students are completing high school with a standard curriculum, meaning they took at least four credits of English and three credits each of social studies, math and science. More students also are taking the next level of courses, which generally includes college preparatory classes.

But the study showed no increase in the number of high-schoolers who completed the most advanced curriculum, which could include college-level or honors classes. On the math test, about 60 percent of high school seniors performed at or above the basic level. At that level, a student should be able to convert a decimal to a fraction, for example.

Just one-fourth of 12th-graders were proficient or better in math, meaning they demonstrated solid academic performance. To qualify as "proficient," students might have to determine what type of graph should be used to display particular types of data. On the reading test, about three-fourths of seniors performed at or above the basic level, while 40 percent hit the proficient mark. Seniors working at a basic reading level can identify elements of an author's style. At the proficient level, they can make inferences from reading material, draw conclusions from it and make connections to their own experiences.

As in the past, the math and reading scores showed large achievement gaps between white students and minorities. Forty-three percent of white students scored at or above proficient levels on the reading test, compared with 20 percent of Hispanic students and 16 percent of black students. On the math test, 29 percent of white students reached the proficient level, compared with 8 percent of Hispanics and 6 percent of blacks. The gap in reading scores between whites and minorities was relatively unchanged since 2002.

The federal No Child Left Behind law has put added emphasis on math and reading, largely in the elementary- and middle-school grades. It also requires states to separate out their test scores by race so officials can track and try to narrow achievement gaps between groups of students.

[azamugg]

First off, unions - all unions - are a fast track to mediocrity. As someone else pointed out, they once served a purpose, but have since fallen into corruption, complacency, greed (Ex: the United Auto Workers many shakedowns of GM) and are no longer necessary with the current set of Federal and state laws now in effect.

Tenure should be removed permanently, with no “grandfathering” for those who already hold tenure. Tenure basically adds an extra level of difficulty in attempts to remove bad teachers.

As far as Teacher’s pay, I think they should be paid AT LEAST $100,000 a year. They are the ones educating our children who also happen to be our and the nation’s future. Someone with such an important profession should be compensated accordingly. With that said, however, the standards by which teachers are judged effective should be tripled to go along with this pay increase. Also, any pay increases should be based solely upon the teacher’s personal performance, not upon a time scale.

Continuing on the subject of teacher’s pay, no one has pointed out the value of the benefits that teachers receive. State guaranteed retirement, health insurance, etc., should be factored into determining that amount of compensation that teachers currently receive. The State of Louisiana’s guaranteed retirement system for teachers is something that most workers could only dream about. John Doe puts his money into a 401K or other investment vehicle, and has to ride the ups and downs of the market and could take a significant loss in the amount of money with which they retire. Teachers, on the other hand, do not have to worry about these pitfalls since the state acts as a buffer to any market variation. That’s an extremely valuable benefit if you ask me.

The final point that I would like to make is that teachers became teachers because they chose to do so. They knew beforehand that the salary was not as significant as it should be, but went into the field anyway. That says two things to me; 1. That most all teachers become teachers because they want to teach, in spite of the salary offered. 2. That most teachers get more of a reward by helping children learn and progress in life than any salary could provide. This fact has given all of us at least one teacher that stands out in our minds when we list the people that most impacted our lives, even if this realization comes from hindsight.

So, from a silver lining point of view, one could say that the current system, with its low salary, has given us teachers that are teaching because they have a passion for teaching and an honest need to do well by their students. This doesn’t mean that I think that teachers shouldn’t be paid more, or that we aren’t missing out on some very good teachers because they are turned off by the low salary. Just that, like humanitarian efforts, the most good comes from those who are in it for the doing of good, rather than for the compensation.


pay was purposefully not meant to be the attraction of being a teacher, desire was...............Tator hit the nail on the head as he always does, I don't know about you guys but I truly enjoy his posts

[AUTiger94]

I started in 1998 making 32k w/ a masters degree. That is sad, but the worst part is how slowly your pay increases over time. If you spent 10 years w/ a company and produced excellent results, how much should you advance on the payscale? Whatever you answer it is a hell of a lot more than teachers make in raises.

[volimhtown]

I'm sorry, but the fact still remains, teaching is a 10 month a year job.

WOW....:unsure::ph34r:
Therein lies the root of the problem. For a current student to make such a statement...I think you REALLY need to step back and re-evaluate your values. I'm not picking on you on a personal level as your comments unfortunately mirror where today's society places the responsibility of raising our children, but to have that stated so boldly and to think nothing of it really struck a cord with me. I suppose that if you really view "teaching" as just a way to pay bills 10 months out of the year, then I guess your comments would be substantiated, but I also really think that your expectations of that first teacher are going to be just a tad bit higher than that when/if you drop your son/daughter off for their first day of kindergarten.

Look...much like Bulldawg stated, the problem is not going to be solely fixed by throwing money at it, but that would be a good place to start in a society whose priorities and values are completely shaped by that. Tater makes some really good points with his post, but I think we need to be careful, Aza, when we jump to the justification that (and I'm paraphrasing here) "teachers should be teachers for their desire to teach as opposed to personal monetary gain". While I agree with that statement, it's certainly not meant to be used as a justification as to why they're NOT paid well. Lawyers and Doctors can and should use the same justification for their willingness to persue their chosen professions as well, yet their avaerage salaries FAR exceed those of teachers. I mean, are those two professions fundamentally and clearly much more important and significant than that of teaching?? Point being, you could make a very good case for all three.

Furthermore, why is it that Doctors and Lawyers are the very first two professions that come to mind when we think of "professionals" and what we desire our kids to grow up and become?? Or even more, who we want our kids to marry?? Think about it....again, how do we place value in this country?? If money's truly the number one indicator of how we place value, then we need to begin showing our teachers how much we value their jobs and chosen profession by raising it's status and by paying them more.

As a final note, to the Teachers Unions and to the point of unions in general...while I'm not a big fan of them myself, I think it's important that we not single them out without singling out ALL special interest groups. They are no more corrupt than the Licensing Boards and the boards that supposedly govern the Medical and Legal professions. Please make sure you are straight on that fact before condemning the others.

[Tator]

pay was purposefully not meant to be the attraction of being a teacher, desire was...............Tator hit the nail on the head as he always does, I don't know about you guys but I truly enjoy his posts

I wouldn't go so far as to say that I always hit the nail on the head, but I can say that I appreciate the kind words. :thumpsup:

[Stark]

I don't know about the rest of the country but I haven't noticed the teachers here in Arkansas hurting much.
When my ex graduated, her first teaching job was at of one the smallest, most podunk, backwoods elementary schools in the state and she started out with higher pay than I did at the time working as a graphic designer for the state's largest newspaper, after three years of experience and a degree.