lssue 1 - the war in iraqi [Archive]

D^3

03-09-2008, 12:04 AM

I want answers, no problems need reply.

1- How would YOU fix the problem?

2- How do you make Muqtada al-Sadr part of the solution, not part of the problem?

This is what forums were designed for. Let's prove it can work.

Where is iraqi? :ph34r:

First off, nobody here is even CLOSE to being remotely qualified to make any suggestions on how to fix the problem. Such suggestions can only come after one has an intrinsic knowledge of the situation and the specifics of the matter. Even thats not enough, as much study and discussion has to go into any plan for a solution.

I'm also 100% sure that nobody here has the necessary knowledge of the situation to offer solutions. Hell, I'm 100% sure that none of you on this board could even name 5 cities in Iraq without looking them up, much less know which cities the insurgency is concentrated in. So if you have no knowledge of Iraq or the strategic information regarding the operation, how the hell could you possibly offer a solution? This isn't a football game where you can arm-chair quarterback and sound like you know what you're talking about. You can't see the war. All you see is what the media tells you.

The only question that anybody here has the knowledge to answer is; "do you want to pull the troops out now?" or "do you want to stay and clean up?"

Any answers attempting to offer solutions to the "problem" are uninformed and presumptuous, at best.

And no, internet forums were not created for a community of armchair quarterbacks to decide foreign policy.

Noah.Dreams

03-09-2008, 11:44 AM

RW13

03-09-2008, 11:47 AM

I would let the Jews deal with it.....

Tennessee Ted

03-09-2008, 01:30 PM

Here is an idea.S9YuD9kYK9I

zartan

03-09-2008, 02:28 PM

Where is iraqi? :ph34r:

First off, nobody here is even CLOSE to being remotely qualified to make any suggestions on how to fix the problem. Such suggestions can only come after one has an intrinsic knowledge of the situation and the specifics of the matter. Even thats not enough, as much study and discussion has to go into any plan for a solution.

I'm also 100% sure that nobody here has the necessary knowledge of the situation to offer solutions. Hell, I'm 100% sure that none of you on this board could even name 5 cities in Iraq without looking them up, much less know which cities the insurgency is concentrated in. So if you have no knowledge of Iraq or the strategic information regarding the operation, how the hell could you possibly offer a solution? This isn't a football game where you can arm-chair quarterback and sound like you know what you're talking about. You can't see the war. All you see is what the media tells you.

The only question that anybody here has the knowledge to answer is; "do you want to pull the troops out now?" or "do you want to stay and clean up?"

Any answers attempting to offer solutions to the "problem" are uninformed and presumptuous, at best.

And no, internet forums were not created for a community of armchair quarterbacks to decide foreign policy.
i am fairly certain that the foreign policy sector of the Bush administration did/does not meet this criteria, so why should we have to?...

timNem

03-09-2008, 02:35 PM

Tennessee Ted

03-09-2008, 02:40 PM

I agree with DDD on this one. We are not qualified to come up with a solution to such a complex problem. I personally now think the war was a mistake, but now that we have toppled the government we need to make sure that we do not leave with the country in chaos.

O'Bama wants to set a date to make the Iraqis know we are serious and have a strike force ready to go in in case of trouble. I think this idea is as good as any. If it does not work the strike force can go in and restore order and the strike force can then be expanded if we need to return to a bigger presence.

Under no circumstances can we leave without the task being completed. It would be a waste of our soldier's lives, and would hurt our credibility. A lot of people see O'Bama's plan as one of weakness and giving up on our soldiers. I am sure that O'Bama is cognizant that we need to succeed here.

Kevhugh

03-09-2008, 03:18 PM

It was stupid to assume that what 1500 years of Sunni vs. Shiite history couldn't solve, we could. As a true conservative, not a neo-con, I believe that this war was a waste of political capital that could have been used better elsewhere. Political mandates are not easily won, but if used poorly they are easily lost. This is a prime example of that.

With that said, under DDD's criteria, We're there now so we have to do our best to clean it up.

Tennessee Ted

03-09-2008, 03:41 PM

Move away from the police action that it turned into by caving in to the bleeding hearts. The same thing happened in Vietnam which could have easily been won. If we are going to be there, let the Generals call the shots so we can finish the job and get out of there.

General Patton once said that you don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other guy die for his.

This is a lot different than Vietnam. In Vietnam we were not only fighting a guerrilla war against Charley, but also the NVA, which was a well trained very experienced army equipped by China and USSR. In Iraq the regular army was defeated years ago and only militants remain. How can it be anything more than a police action when there is no regular army left to fight? Plus I would say it is more than a police action since we have over 100,000 troops and probably the same amount if not more security "contractors." Welcome to the occupation.

timNem

03-09-2008, 03:57 PM

This is a lot different than Vietnam. In Vietnam we were not only fighting a guerrilla war against Charley, but also the NVA, which was a well trained very experienced army equipped by China and USSR. In Iraq the regular army was defeated years ago and only militants remain. How can it be anything more than a police action when there is no regular army left to fight? Plus I would say it is more than a police action since we have over 100,000 troops and probably the same amount if not more security "contractors." Welcome to the occupation.
You can have 10,000,000 infantry there and it could still be a police action. I said it was a police action based on what Ive heard from soldiers and officers who are there or have been there. Alot of them have been frustrated because instead of them being able to go straight to the source and attack, political games must be played instead. When you know without a doubt that an entire city is insurgent, why not level the place? Then you have out soldiers scared to even pull the trigger when needed because of douchebags like John Murtha.

People like my dad who fought with the 101st Airborne in the Bush of Vietnam will tell you the same frustrations. Many, many times after gaining ground and taking positions, they were ordered to just give it back over to Charlie and then fight to get it back when they were ordered to do so. It could have and should have been won with less American lives loss but we both know why that never happened.

the Paradox

03-09-2008, 03:59 PM

Where is iraqi? :ph34r:

First off, nobody here is even CLOSE to being remotely qualified to make any suggestions on how to fix the problem. Such suggestions can only come after one has an intrinsic knowledge of the situation and the specifics of the matter. Even thats not enough, as much study and discussion has to go into any plan for a solution.

I'm also 100% sure that nobody here has the necessary knowledge of the situation to offer solutions. Hell, I'm 100% sure that none of you on this board could even name 5 cities in Iraq without looking them up, much less know which cities the insurgency is concentrated in. So if you have no knowledge of Iraq or the strategic information regarding the operation, how the hell could you possibly offer a solution? This isn't a football game where you can arm-chair quarterback and sound like you know what you're talking about. You can't see the war. All you see is what the media tells you.

The only question that anybody here has the knowledge to answer is; "do you want to pull the troops out now?" or "do you want to stay and clean up?"

Any answers attempting to offer solutions to the "problem" are uninformed and presumptuous, at best.

And no, internet forums were not created for a community of armchair quarterbacks to decide foreign policy.

Do you practice @ being a complete jerk or is it a natural talent?

RTR

Tennessee Ted

03-09-2008, 05:21 PM

You can have 10,000,000 infantry there and it could still be a police action. I said it was a police action based on what Ive heard from soldiers and officers who are there or have been there. Alot of them have been frustrated because instead of them being able to go straight to the source and attack, political games must be played instead. When you know without a doubt that an entire city is insurgent, why not level the place? Then you have out soldiers scared to even pull the trigger when needed because of douchebags like John Murtha.

People like my dad who fought with the 101st Airborne in the Bush of Vietnam will tell you the same frustrations. Many, many times after gaining ground and taking positions, they were ordered to just give it back over to Charlie and then fight to get it back when they were ordered to do so. It could have and should have been won with less American lives loss but we both know why that never happened.

It would be nice to level the place, but I do not think it would make our occupation very popular. We are in a very tricky place here because we want to restore order by giving more responsibility to the Iraqis, but if we go out and level the whole city we will undoubtedly wipe out insurgents and non-insurgents alike, which could create the very chaos we are trying to avoid.

D^3

03-09-2008, 10:45 PM

Do you practice @ being a complete jerk or is it a natural talent?

RTR

Oh, I'm sorry... I didn't realize that the voice of reason was so detested around here. You guys go ahead and decide what to do about Iraq and make sure you send your decision to the joint chiefs of staff. I'm sure they'll read it.:glare:

D^3

03-09-2008, 10:56 PM

It seems like everyone is qualified to run a $50 million team sport, but are not interested enough to even form an opinion about a war their brother would die for.

I have seen the enemy and he is us.

You didn't ASK for an opinion on the war, in case you already forgot what you wrote.... you asked for people to suggest a solution, which nobody here is capable of, because nobody here has a f___ing clue about Iraq.

- You know jack squat about the actual numbers of troops on the ground.
- You don't know even know the geography of Iraq
- You don't know the locations of the insurgency
- You don't have any idea what the number of insurgents is
- You have no clue what the actual status of the situation on the ground in Iraq is.
- You don't know the demographics of Iraq
- You don't know what the public opinion of the Iraqi population is
- All of your news on Iraq comes from the 10 o'clock news, or more often than not, a campaign speech.

You getting the picture? How could you possibly know the solution when you don't even know what the problem is?

Yeah, opinions are great. Its fantastic that we can all have an opinion on the war, whether its right or wrong to be there and whether we should leave now or finish the job; and you should write your congressman if you feel so led to let them know how you feel... because THOSE are the people we put in power to make those decisions. But its absolutely stupid to believe that you will get a solution to the problem off of a football forum.

timNem

03-09-2008, 11:10 PM

Oh, I'm sorry... I didn't realize that the voice of reason was so detested around here. You guys go ahead and decide what to do about Iraq and make sure you send your decision to the joint chiefs of staff. I'm sure they'll read it.:glare:
Its kinda the same situation with us all discussing and argueing football on here. None of us know firsthand what the coaches know about the teams, players, and such. We don't know which players have been practicing the best or which players might have some attitude problems but we still argue like we know whats going on AND to beat it all, we make crazy pre-season predictions based on unknowns and get mad when somebody disagrees. Its a DISCUSSION BOARD dude.

D^3

03-09-2008, 11:15 PM

Its kinda the same situation with us all discussing and argueing football on here. None of us know firsthand what the coaches know about the teams, players, and such. We don't know which players have been practicing the best or which players might have some attitude problems but we still argue like we know whats going on AND to beat it all, we make crazy pre-season predictions based on unknowns and get mad when somebody disagrees. Its a DISCUSSION BOARD dude.

Thats fine, just don't chew my ass out for pointing out that nobody here has an f'ing clue of what to do in Iraq. Like I said, let them debate away on what to do, and then send their little proposal off to the Pentagon (if they can even find an address to send it to).

BTW the difference between talking football and talking war is that you can see what happens on a football field with your own eyes. You can't see whats going on in Iraq.

azamugg

03-09-2008, 11:16 PM

D^3

03-09-2008, 11:21 PM

noah asked no one to send out recon, orchestrate troop movements, artillery, etc..........you can opine politically about what to do and even broadly about how to do it w/out having an ear to the ground..........you're an enthusiastic youngster that needs to take a chillonapin

Maybe its just because my idea of fixing the problem entails more than the simplistic answer that Noah is looking for. Sorry but in my field of study, that kind of question would result in a 100+ page answer that would take weeks of research, and anything less would be misinformed.

timNem

03-09-2008, 11:23 PM

Thats fine, just don't chew my ass out for pointing out that nobody here has an f'ing clue of what to do in Iraq. Like I said, let them debate away on what to do, and then send their little proposal off to the Pentagon (if they can even find an address to send it to).

BTW the difference between talking football and talking war is that you can see what happens on a football field with your own eyes. You can't see whats going on in Iraq.

You're right in the sense that nobody knows whats really going on. I have heard from some that have been there but thats only a few people out of 100,000+ who have served there recently. So maybe its just as silly to get disgruntled over debating this since we all know that our opinions have no bearing on what happens in Iraq. :thumpsup:

timNem

03-09-2008, 11:30 PM

Maybe its just because my idea of fixing the problem entails more than the simplistic answer that Noah is looking for. Sorry but in my field of study, that kind of question would result in a 100+ page answer that would take weeks of research, and anything less would be misinformed.
of course that research would have to involve interviewing the Chiefs and maybe even getting your boots on the ground in Iraq according to your previous requirements, otherwise that 100+ page report would be uninformed.

D^3

03-09-2008, 11:53 PM

of course that research would have to involve interviewing the Chiefs and maybe even getting your boots on the ground in Iraq according to your previous requirements, otherwise that 100+ page report would be uninformed.

Naturally. I'm not talking about just reading numerous articles from the media on the subject. I'm talking about research as in "do-it-yourself" research.

Bburton86

03-10-2008, 11:02 AM

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/bburton86/thismodernworld2008-3-10.jpg

azamugg

03-10-2008, 12:35 PM

and? ,

ColonelKurtz

03-10-2008, 12:44 PM

Thats fine, just don't chew my ass out for pointing out that nobody here has an f'ing clue of what to do in Iraq. Like I said, let them debate away on what to do, and then send their little proposal off to the Pentagon (if they can even find an address to send it to).

BTW the difference between talking football and talking war is that you can see what happens on a football field with your own eyes. You can't see whats going on in Iraq.

My, my, my what a pretentious little dingleberry YOU are. And precisely WHOM do you profess to be as to determine what I can and cannot opine about?

There IS NO DIFFERENCE in talking ball either, as I can heartily assure you that whatever you think Richt should do as HC receives exactly the same treatment as your missives to the Pentagon. Jackass.

The problem with Iraq is that it is full of Iraqis......:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

The US has long accomplished what it set out to do there and it's time to withdraw our people and let the Iraqis figure out how best to move forward for themselves.

SeanVol

03-10-2008, 01:06 PM

This discussion wouldn't take place if Bush had stayed in Afghanistan. The Economy wouldn't be as bad as it is now and Al Qaeda definitely wouldn't be as strong as it is now!!!!!!

Sadaam, didn't have any "Weapons of Mass Destruction" and it made us the laughing stock of the world!!!!!!!!!!!!

It would be a mistake to leave Iraq now, because that would more than likely mean Al-Qaeda would take over Iraq and Osbama Bin Laden Dictator of Iraq wouldn't be nice at all for the region. If Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden gets a hold of Iraq would Bin Laden attack Saudi Arabia? Bin Laden was kick out of Saudi Arabia and what's to say that won't attack Saudi Arabia.

If Obama truly is cognizant he won't leave Iraq!!!!!!

JerryBeeds

03-10-2008, 02:06 PM

I think we can all agree that Depeche Mode is the greatest band of all time.:wave:

timNem

03-10-2008, 02:22 PM

I think we can all agree that Depeche Mode is the greatest band of all time.:wave:

:laugh: Alrighty then

JerryBeeds

03-10-2008, 02:23 PM

:laugh: Alrighty then

I'm just trying to find some common ground here Tim.:chug:

SeanVol

03-10-2008, 03:10 PM

I think we can all agree that Depeche Mode is the greatest band of all time.:wave:

Are they still touring?

JerryBeeds

03-10-2008, 03:11 PM

Are they still touring?

Let's hope not.:laugh:

Tennessee Ted

03-10-2008, 03:18 PM

You're right in the sense that nobody knows whats really going on. I have heard from some that have been there but thats only a few people out of 100,000+ who have served there recently. So maybe its just as silly to get disgruntled over debating this since we all know that our opinions have no bearing on what happens in Iraq. :thumpsup:

I always put all the resources I have into these type of questions because I am waiting for the day that I get a pm from Volpentagondude saying "great response. Come to Washington Tennessee Ted, and we will talk." You never know who is looking at this thread. :laugh::laugh:

Noah.Dreams

03-11-2008, 12:36 PM

As citizens it is our obligation to understand what our government is doing in every arena and then form an opinion about whether the action is right or not. And in turn, it is our responsibility to hold elected officials accountable by voting.

Never hide behind the excuse of not having enough information. That's simply the paralysis of analysis. The one thing that I've learned in the last 48 years is you will NEVER have enough information, but you just have to look for clues in the right places. The sooner you learn this talent, the more proficent at it you become.

And something else happens in the meantime. Hopefully, you will study the subject and become better informed. Never allow a bully to tell you how to think or let them shout you down. All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

So let's brainstorm for ideas. No matter how unrealistic because the best answer will sometimes lie outside of the box.