"The General" Surrenders

[gatorunvrsty]

Without much explanation, Bobby Knight has suddenly resigned as coach of Texas Tech.:ohmy:

ESPN - College coaching legend Knight resigns from Texas Tech - Men's College Basketball (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3230737)

[GatorBait15]

Wow, my father and I just had a convo about Bobby...

[gatorunvrsty]

Wow, my father and I just had a convo about Bobby...

You better hope he hasn't been using him as an example of the ideal disciplinarian.:whistle:

[GatorBait15]

No we were just talking about why he wouldn't coach somewhere better than TT and about him at Indiana and what not...

[palmettocock]

If we can't get Anthony Grant, I'd like to throw his name into the hat for our vacancy:whistle: ......just sayin

[the Paradox]

Bob Knight is the greatest coach in NCAA history. He won 3 titles, coached the last perfect team, won a Gold Medal, graduated his players, and his players had little, if any trouble off the court.


RTR

[azamugg]

Bob Knight is the greatest coach in NCAA history. He won 3 titles, coached the last perfect team, won a Gold Medal, graduated his players, and his players had little, if any trouble off the court.


RTR

man, thats right on time Big A cuz i feel a huge loss with this move by the General............my high school coach, Jeff Damron, was like a grateful dead Bobby Knight junkie, probably 35, sharp witted almost a comedic talent, but as hard as a diamond, brunt, abrasive, almost evil sometimes.......I hated him as much as I felt like I had to have his.....stamp of approval......weird psychological dynamics

he takes with him something Im not sure can ever be replaced in the game today........a beautiful, not very complicated, straight forward love that is so close to being a million other emotions at other times that sometimes you say something ....you wish you hadn't..........so everyone throw a stackable chair at anyone wearing stripes, as hard as you can, slinging sweat everywhere and cussing, w/spittle in your mouth.........in memory

[sheluvsbama]

Maybe Knight knows something we don't, and that's why he resigned. I think he is brutal.

[the Paradox]

In my younger days I coached Jr. and Sr. Pro basketball. My kids' parents called me the "Baby General". The refs hated me but I made them work for their money. Alas, I never threw a chair but there were times I wanted to.


RTR

[the Paradox]

Maybe Knight knows something we don't, and that's why he resigned. I think he is brutal.

He is a true student of the game who refuses to relent to the sub class standards that have become a mainstay of today's society. 98% of his kids that stayed in school 4 years got their degree.


RTR

[The Ramp]

i ALWAYS hated that guy

[timNem]

i ALWAYS hated that guyyou need to learn to open up and spread the love :laugh:

[the Paradox]

i ALWAYS hated that guy

Most women and weak willed men do hate Knight. He is demanding and a perfectionist. He also never gave out ice cream cones to the press or problem players.


RTR

[The Ramp]

you need to learn to open up and spread the love :laugh:

only if he had a tramp stamp and a set of fun bags:thumpsup:

[gatorunvrsty]

He is a true student of the game who refuses to relent to the sub class standards that have become a mainstay of today's society. 98% of his kids that stayed in school 4 years got their degree.


RTR

Maybe so, but Wooden accomplished the same things without leaving strangulation marks and bruises on players and students. In fact, there are lots of other coaches accomplishing the same things without using intimidation and fear. He's an a$$hole.

[The Ramp]

Maybe so, but Wooden accomplished the same things without leaving strangulation marks and bruises on players and students. In fact, there are lots of other coaches accomplishing the same things without using intimidation and fear. He's an a$$hole.

no kidding...congrats on doing what you're suppossed to but they're no excuse for being a boorish bully

[the Paradox]

Maybe so, but Wooden accomplished the same things without leaving strangulation marks and bruises on players and students. In fact, there are lots of other coaches accomplishing the same things without using intimidation and fear. He's an a$$hole.

How many of these "bruise marks" did you actually see? Let me guess that your answer is none but "you heard it from the press. As for Neil, is that your name or what you do Reed, that kid was a mama's boy and a punk. Witness his b-ball success after he transferred from IU.


RTR

[gatorunvrsty]

Most women and weak willed men do hate Knight. He is demanding and a perfectionist. He also never gave out ice cream cones to the press or problem players.


RTR

What, are you saying only women and weak-willed men are decent people? Because people who hate him are great judges of character. I resent that, as my peers and the people who know me often characterize me as the strongest-willed person they know. But, I know a bully when I see one, and most of them are really cowards. That'd be how I'd describe Knight... an immature, petulant child who can't control his temper; and who takes out his frustrations on those he knows he can. A truly strong man can take criticism with a grain of salt, and not have a tantrum at the slightest perceived snub.

[The Ramp]

didn't they have that choking on tape?

[the Paradox]

Knight's former players, almost without fail, praise him as a great coach and a molder of men but you guys seem to know better.


RTR

[gatorunvrsty]

How many of these "bruise marks" did you actually see? Let me guess that your answer is none but "you heard it from the press. As for Neil, is that your name or what you do Reed, that kid was a mama's boy and a punk. Witness his b-ball success after he transferred from IU.


RTR

There are photographs all over the media of them; and it occurred more than once. Lord only knows how many incidents were hushed up, or how many parents were paid off for keeping quiet. You don't have to be brilliant or particularly observant to see what he's all about. I shudder to think how many actual assaults IU knew about, if they felt pressured to fire him even after all the success he'd brought them. They must have had countless complaints. Can you imagine how much BS UNC or Duke would have to put up with to have fired Smith or Coach K? I imagine they'd have to "f" up either really bad, or an awful lot. And I believe that's what it took for IU to get rid of their signature coach, too.

[The Ramp]

Knight's former players, almost without fail, praise him as a great coach and a molder of men but you guys seem to know better.


RTR

he may be both of those things but he still acts like an immature egomaniacal troglodyte when he doesn't have to. i had my arse chewed by the best of them (football and military) and they all were more professional than that multi-millionare high profile coach.

[gatorunvrsty]

didn't they have that choking on tape?

Yeah, CNN got that one on tape, and played it over and over. I watched it. Before they aired it, Knight lied and said it never happened, and accused Reed of being the liar. Then he accosted and assaulted another student who he said disrespected him by calling him "Knight"... I guess because he didn't say Coach Knight. The list is a mile long... there's really nothing to debate. If some folks think he was great for them or their family members, fine... if it'd been my son who he strangled, kicked, or laid his hands on, he'd never have gotten 900 victories unless he was coaching from a wheelchair.

[timNem]

As long as he coached and the numerous players that played under him you would think that there would be scores of former players that have come forth with claims of Knight beating them. Im sure they would all agree that he was an SOB to play for but Im also sure that 99% of them know that they are now better players but most importantly better people, not because Knight was like Mother Theresa and cast an aura of sweet gentleness about - but under him they learned how to adapt and get through pressure packed situations that would also benefit them for the rest of their lives.

[gatorunvrsty]

As long as he coached and the numerous players that played under him you would think that there would be scores of former players that have come forth with claims of Knight beating them. Im sure they would all agree that he was an SOB to play for but Im also sure that 99% of them know that they are now better players but most importantly better people, not because Knight was like Mother Theresa and cast an aura of sweet gentleness about - but under him they learned how to adapt and get through pressure packed situations that would also benefit them for the rest of their lives.

I'm sure lots of guys got that benefit; but I'm also not blind to the idea that high-profile programs often hide and hush-up complaints if they can. IU may not be a high-profile football team, but they definitely were a high-profile basketball program under Knight... and probably willing to do almost anything or pay almost anything to avoid a black eye (pun intended) on the program. The ones we know about are the ones that were impossible to hide... it'd be interesting to know how many they were capable of sweeping under the rug.

[azamugg]

As long as he coached and the numerous players that played under him you would think that there would be scores of former players that have come forth with claims of Knight beating them. Im sure they would all agree that he was an SOB to play for but Im also sure that 99% of them know that they are now better players but most importantly better people, not because Knight was like Mother Theresa and cast an aura of sweet gentleness about - but under him they learned how to adapt and get through pressure packed situations that would also benefit them for the rest of their lives.


it is apparent Paradox and Tim that some of us march to the beat of ......real men, men that have gone away because of a weakening society, one getting weaker as far as backbone, every day

[bigsexxxy]

I'm sure lots of guys got that benefit; but I'm also not blind to the idea that high-profile programs often hide and hush-up complaints if they can. IU may not be a high-profile football team, but they definitely were a high-profile basketball program under Knight... and probably willing to do almost anything or pay almost anything to avoid a black eye (pun intended) on the program. The ones we know about are the ones that were impossible to hide... it'd be interesting to know how many they were capable of sweeping under the rug.

See, this is why they're burying him upside down, so his critics can kiss his ass.

Now really isn't the time to denigrate the guy, tip your hat to him because he is one of the greatest coaches of all time and let it go.

[gatorunvrsty]

it is apparent Paradox and Tim that some of us march to the beat of ......real men, men that have gone away because of a weakening society, one getting weaker as far as backbone, every day

And some of us march to the beat of... real men aren't determined by their ability to impose their will over those they already know to be weaker than them. That is the definition of a coward and a tyrant. Real men lead by example; and, after watching the myriad temper tantrums by Knight on ESPN this morning, I can safely say I'm thankful I'm not that insecure and immature. I put those kind of "men" in the same class as wife-beaters and child-abusers... they take out their aggression on those they know they can.

[gatorunvrsty]

See, this is why they're burying him upside down, so his critics can kiss his ass.

Now really isn't the time to denigrate the guy, tip your hat to him because he is one of the greatest coaches of all time and let it go.

Never said he didn't know his X's and O's. I just don't tip my hat to people who aren't worthy of respect. Like I said, plenty of other coaches out there are building winners and men without having to resort to his tactics.

[the Paradox]

And some of us march to the beat of... real men aren't determined by their ability to impose their will over those they already know to be weaker than them. That is the definition of a coward and a tyrant. Real men lead by example; and, after watching the myriad temper tantrums by Knight on ESPN this morning, I can safely say I'm thankful I'm not that insecure and immature. I put those kind of "men" in the same class as wife-beaters and child-abusers... they take out their aggression on those they know they can.


Nice comment about wife beaters and child abusers. That was way out of line, even for you. Now run along back to ESPN, so they can tell you whom to like and what to buy.


RTR

[azamugg]

And some of us march to the beat of... real men aren't determined by their ability to impose their will over those they already know to be weaker than them. That is the definition of a coward and a tyrant. Real men lead by example; and, after watching the myriad temper tantrums by Knight on ESPN this morning, I can safely say I'm thankful I'm not that insecure and immature. I put those kind of "men" in the same class as wife-beaters and child-abusers... they take out their aggression on those they know they can.

lead by example? should a general dig foxholes? a coach should out dunk his players? Nope when dealing with punks, or blank canvass'es if that makes you feel better you have to have a healthy repect (fear of God) to MAXIMIZE YOUR AFFECT SO YOU CAN WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS

he didnt just coach, alot of nice guys do that (see Gottfried), he f'n WON AND WON OFTEN

[the Paradox]

"I guess you can never be surprised at some of the things Bob does. I don't think there's ever been a better teacher of the game of basketball than Bob. I don't always approve of his methods, but his players for the most part are very loyal to him. I would say that no player that ever played for him would not say he did not come out a stronger person." -- former UCLA coach John Wooden.

"Bob Knight to me is Indiana basketball. Coach Knight is a direct result of where I am today, living in Indiana, coaching in Indiana and being married to an Indiana girl." -- former Indiana player and current IPFW coach Dane Fife.


"Some of the things that happened with him happened to all of us, like me. Those are snapshots of what we're all about. You have to really have the story told by all the people he coached and the people that were close to him. When you start dealing with people on the outside, I don't think they can measure this man." -- former Temple coach John Chaney.

"I always judge people if they're great guys if they're good listeners and they're humble. And he's, when you get to know him, very humble guy, great listener, cares about what you have to say." -- Louisville coach Rick Pitino.

Yeah Gator, I guess you're right. :brick:


RTR

[sheluvsbama]

Nice comment about wife beaters and child abusers. That was way out of line, even for you. Now run along back to ESPN, so they can tell you whom to like and what to buy.


RTR

Nobody, and I mean nobody, tells GU who to like or dislike. That comment is far from out of line, as Knight's behavior is indicative of the same mind-set. I've known plenty of "men" like that over the years; and I hesitate to even call them men. Henceforth, why don't we just refer to them as boys or males?

[the Paradox]

Nobody, and I mean nobody, tells GU who to like or dislike. That comment is far from out of line, as Knight's behavior is indicative of the same mind-set. I've known plenty of "men" like that over the years; and I hesitate to even call them men. Henceforth, why don't we just refer to them as boys or males?

Seems someone needs a love and tranquility pill. Let me see if I can get my wife to help me on this this thread.


RTR

[the Paradox]

Nobody, and I mean nobody, tells GU who to like or dislike. That comment is far from out of line, as Knight's behavior is indicative of the same mind-set. I've known plenty of "men" like that over the years; and I hesitate to even call them men. Henceforth, why don't we just refer to them as boys or males?

I also have know plenty of "men" like that over the years. Those men are war heroes, great fathers, tremendous teachers, and contributing members of society.


RTR

[gatorunvrsty]

lead by example? should a general dig foxholes? a coach should out dunk his players? Nope when dealing with punks, or blank canvass'es if that makes you feel better you have to have a healthy repect (fear of God) to MAXIMIZE YOUR AFFECT SO YOU CAN WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS

he didnt just coach, alot of nice guys do that (see Gottfried), he f'n WON AND WON OFTEN

Of course a general should dig foxholes... and did. How do you think he got to be a general in the first place? Of course, by the time he's gotten to that place, he wouldn't still be doing it, although throughout history, the greatest conquerors never asked their subordinates to do anything they wouldn't.

In the end, this isn't personal. I just contend that he went about winning in ways that were unnecessary. I don't detract from his winning, I detract from his methods. What he did is not necessary to win and win often. If it was, Wooden, Smith, Krzyzewski, Pitino, Valvano, Donovan, and countless others would never have been employed. And those are the most successful coaches of all time. There's no denying the man knows the game, and knows it better than most. But, he also isn't what I'd want my child to be... and that's a bully. Thugs take on various different forms; and a thug in a sweater is still a thug. Mike Tyson won a lot, too, but I'd prefer my kid not emulate him.

[gatorunvrsty]

Nice comment about wife beaters and child abusers. That was way out of line, even for you. Now run along back to ESPN, so they can tell you whom to like and what to buy.


RTR

:laugh: After 6,000 posts, you still haven't figured out that I have my own strong opinions? I'll tell you what influences who I do and don't respect or like... God. You know, that guy who said to spare the rod, and spoil the child; and that the meek would inherit the Earth. What I watched on ESPN this morning were all things I'd seen numerous times before... it was just an effective reminder, so that I don't get blinded by the 900 wins and 3 titles. I don't believe in winning at any cost; and apparently most of the other HOF coaches don't believe in it, either.

Personally, I don't think he wants to be buried upside down so his critics and detractors can kiss his a$$... how would they get around his head, anyway? I think he wants to be buried that way because he knows where his soul is headed, and he wants to be facing the right direction.:happy:

[azamugg]

Of course a general should dig foxholes... and did. How do you think he got to be a general in the first place? Of course, by the time he's gotten to that place, he wouldn't still be doing it, although throughout history, the greatest conquerors never asked their subordinates to do anything they wouldn't.
In the end, this isn't personal. I just contend that he went about winning in ways that were unnecessary. I don't detract from his winning, I detract from his methods. What he did is not necessary to win and win often. If it was, Wooden, Smith, Krzyzewski, Pitino, Valvano, Donovan, and countless others would never have been employed. And those are the most successful coaches of all time. There's no denying the man knows the game, and knows it better than most. But, he also isn't what I'd want my child to be... and that's a bully. Thugs take on various different forms; and a thug in a sweater is still a thug. Mike Tyson won a lot, too, but I'd prefer my kid not emulate him.


apparently you don't understand the military because I doubt a general has EVER dug a fox hole and yep, he doesnt hesitate to ask those beneath him to dig it, dig it the right damn size, dig it fast and don't f'n bitch while you do it..........and the general gets away with being a not so nice guy about it too, may have even put a boot in your back while you were digging.....but see this "fear" that the military instills is for the soldiers safety and the armies purpose and that is to win and the only way you can get soldiers to act in a certain way is to make them act unconsciously and that comes from acting from the primal emotion of FEAR

alot of very nice guys have been incorrupt, beat their wives, stole from others, been murderers, etc........in other words you can't generalize because the guy has in fact crossed a line or two and is not the nicest guy

[geechee]

Bob Knight is the greatest coach in NCAA history. He won 3 titles, coached the last perfect team, won a Gold Medal, graduated his players, and his players had little, if any trouble off the court.

RTR

Bob Knight is one of the greatest coaches in history period; that includes any sport, at any time, any place in the world.

[timNem]

apparently you don't understand the military because I doubt a general has EVER dug a fox hole and yep, he doesnt hesitate to ask those beneath him to dig it, dig it the right damn size, dig it fast and don't f'n bitch while you do it..........and the general gets away with being a not so nice guy about it too, may have even put a boot in your back while you were digging.....but see this "fear" that the military instills is for the soldiers safety and the armies purpose and that is to win and the only way you can get soldiers to act in a certain way is to make them act unconsciously and that comes from acting from the primal emotion of FEAR

alot of very nice guys have been incorrupt, beat their wives, stole from others, been murderers, etc........in other words you can't generalize because the guy has in fact crossed a line or two and is not the nicest guy
and as soon as you get the hole dug, fill it back up :laugh: I wasn't in the military but my dad went through some tough military training. He says that all that tough training that he went through in the 101st Airborne was designed to break a guy down completely and remold him into someone who can think and react on the fly and without orders when necessary regardless of whats going on around you. Thats exactly the approach that some of the great coaches took i.e. Knight, Bryant, etc. The idea that the tougher elite military and even some coaches tried to install was to make leaders of these guys by teaching them how to make decisions in the toughest of circumstances. Thats why you see so many of Bryant's former player's have become Head Coaches, CEOs etc. and yet they probably feared and hated him at the time, they now adore and give all credit to him.

[gatorunvrsty]

apparently you don't understand the military because I doubt a general has EVER dug a fox hole and yep, he doesnt hesitate to ask those beneath him to dig it, dig it the right damn size, dig it fast and don't f'n bitch while you do it..........and the general gets away with being a not so nice guy about it too, may have even put a boot in your back while you were digging.....but see this "fear" that the military instills is for the soldiers safety and the armies purpose and that is to win and the only way you can get soldiers to act in a certain way is to make them act unconsciously and that comes from acting from the primal emotion of FEAR

alot of very nice guys have been incorrupt, beat their wives, stole from others, been murderers, etc........in other words you can't generalize because the guy has in fact crossed a line or two and is not the nicest guy

Name one general that was born one, not promoted to one. And BTW, basketball is a GAME, not a WAR. I don't know of any other coaches that thought they had to resort to choking players to make them into men.

[Sabanocchio]

Name one general that was born one, not promoted to one. And BTW, basketball is a GAME, not a WAR. I don't know of any other coaches that thought they had to resort to choking players to make them into men.

I'm sick of all the war analogies as well. There are some parallels but sports are for fun. Many of the players under Knight's tutelage go on to pursue other things in life other than professional basketball. While many concede that he is a good coach, most of those same question the methods he employs and the persona he presents to his players and the world. He may have the player's best interests at heart, but didn't always provide the best example of the correct way to behave. There are better ways to accomplish the same things he did.

[azamugg]

oh you friggin guys.............sports is also VOLUNTARY AS IS OUR MILITARY

a coach in the vein of Knight MAKES you either quit, quit and go lose w/someone else or excell.......his coaching style makes you play well because he exploits your emotions, exposing them, whether it be fear, ego, inability to make decisions, anger, pride, etc, etc, ........we're all hardwired differently

I hate to hear posters talk about playing sports and making fun of posters that didnt but apparently this creates different attitudes because I played all three (baseball just till 10th grade) and all of my coaches, except two, were hard rude sometimes violent asses.....coincidentally how do you think my teams under those two coaches perfomed??? I was in the military as well so maybe I think of Knight and those like him differently

don't get me wrong, no one is agreeable at the time to be treated as such, its the molding of character and ability that takes place w/out you realizing it, the life you end up living w/out realizing you orchestrated it in the way you did......its later you appreciate and admire these people

and as far as a General gatoru, in the military there are non commissioned officers and officers......a small percent of officers started out NCO's and went to OCS and became an officer but the majority of them didnt so NO, GENERALLY SPEAKING GENERALS HAVE NEVER DUG A F'N FOXHOLE AND IM NOT GONNA ARGUE WITH YOU BECAUSE I KNOW THE TRUTH AND ITS NOT YOUR OPINION THAT CHANGES THE F'N TRUTH

[azamugg]

I'm sick of all the war analogies as well. There are some parallels but sports are for fun. Many of the players under Knight's tutelage go on to pursue other things in life other than professional basketball. While many concede that he is a good coach, most of those same question the methods he employs and the persona he presents to his players and the world. He may have the player's best interests at heart, but didn't always provide the best example of the correct way to behave. There are better ways to accomplish the same things he did.

alot of sports fans question coaches and their tactics to death often accusing them of being too soft...........its not as attractive for a man to be harsh versus soft so of course people that don't understand would question it ..............but you guys are acting like Knight is not regrettful of some of the things he's done, of course he is, but when you feel and act w/such purpose and emotion you're gonna slip up...........hell ALL OF US IN ANGER AND/OR PASSION HAVE SLIPPED UP AND SAID OR ACTED IN A WAY WE REGRETTED LATER BUT IT ISNT DOCUMENTED FOR THE WORLD TO SEE AND TO SEE OVER AND OVER AND OVER

[timNem]

Sports are fun for fans or the observer but its much more than that to the athlete who put in the time, sweat and pain into it.

The bottom line is every coach uses different methods of teaching and not just about teaching the fundamentals of the sports, there is a huge psychological factor at play. For those who have played alot of organized sports understands that factor and most young athletes don't realize the potential they possess until that barrier is broken.

Not everyone could play under these types of coaches but the ones who did, knew what those coaches were about. Me personally, I would rather play under a coach or trainer who would push me to the edge. But to label a guy as bad because you don't approve of his style is totally unfair especially since 99% of his former players highly regard they guy.

Like I mentioned, there are alot of different coaching styles, but some of the most successful coaches throughout history would be considered brutal to the observer but the guys who actually played the game understand the rhyme.

[volimhtown]

WOW!! Pretty strong feelings both ways whenever you talk about Bobby Knight. :unsure:
It boils down to this for me...give him credit because he produced results. He took his responsibilty to mentor his players, for better or worse, and when he committed to those players parents that he would personally insure that they WOULD get an education, he delivered where so few have not. He DESERVES credit for doing that!!
Now, where I take issue is with HOW he did it. The bottom line is that the ends didn't justify the means.
While there are definite benefits of intimidation tactics and being a strict disciplinarian, to me a "real man" (since that term has been rediculously tossed into the argument) knows when to use the iron fist and also when to use his heart....Strike 1.
A "real man" knows that life is a struggle and that every little battle CAN'T be won and thus knows what battles to fight and what battles to concede....Strike 2.
A "real man" has humility....even in the depths of success and realizes that he is not perfect, does not know EVERYTHING, and views each day as a new learning experience. Isn't that what growth and maturity is all about??.....Strike 3.
I think we should ALL keep things in perspective when talking about Coach Knight. He is, after all, only a basketball coach. Lord knows kids these days could use more discipline as a whole, but there's more than one way to accomplish that and that's something Coach Knight never learned or understood. The ends don't always justify the means!!

[azamugg]

okay, we all know the ends don't justify the means you waxing philosopher but the man is the most winningest coach in the history of the game, winning over 900 games for god's sake...........compromising your own person and those around you for short term success...wrong but it aint a coincidence when you look at his track record and see
a) success on the court (and lots of it)
b) educated/graduated young men
c) boys that became FINE men after leaving his nest
d) and those fine man credit him w/their success

[Sabanocchio]

okay, we all know the ends don't justify the means you waxing philosopher but the man is the most winningest coach in the history of the game, winning over 900 games for god's sake...........compromising your own person and those around you for short term success...wrong but it aint a coincidence when you look at his track record and see
a) success on the court (and lots of it)
b) educated/graduated young men
c) boys that became FINE men after leaving his nest
d) and those fine man credit him w/their success

And someone else is going to come along and break his 900 mark and likely do it with much less flair and criticism than accompanied Knight.
One could make an a-d and beyond list of the negative things he did and negative impact he had on young men he tutored as easily as you did the positive. Like Vimhtown said, sometimes the negative aspects outweigh the benefits. JMO.

[azamugg]

not in the case pal, is all im trying to say.........not in this case

[Sabanocchio]

not in the case pal, is all im trying to say.........not in this case

And that is certainly debatable, wouldn't you say? I feel differently. I wouldn't want my son playing for a guy like Knight, and obviously you would have no problem with it. It's all a matter of opinion.

[The Ramp]

okay, we all know the ends don't justify the means you waxing philosopher but the man is the most winningest coach in the history of the game, winning over 900 games for god's sake...........compromising your own person and those around you for short term success...wrong but it aint a coincidence when you look at his track record and see
a) success on the court (and lots of it)
b) educated/graduated young men
c) boys that became FINE men after leaving his nest
d) and those fine man credit him w/their success



and just think what he could have accomplished if he wasn't an bully with a power trip? no one doubts his influence over kids and his coaching ability, but he could he be just as successful without throwing temper tandrums and acting as a belligerent fool as soon as a microphone was put in his face. he probably could have accomplished all his goals without screaming obsecenities, verbally (possibly physically) abusing, and intimitating players. he chooses to be an a@@hole just to be one. i know he has a heart of gold and cares for the development of his players; but why he chooses to act unprofessionally and juvenile to stroke his own ego is beyond me. Wooden, Kzychewski, Rupp, and Smith were as successful without acting in such a manner. i certainly would want my kids to accomplish their goals without resorting to such sophmoric tactics.

[volimhtown]

And someone else is going to come along and break his 900 mark and likely do it with much less flair and criticism than accompanied Knight.
One could make an a-d and beyond list of the negative things he did and negative impact he had on young men he tutored as easily as you did the positive. Like Vimhtown said, sometimes the negative aspects outweigh the benefits. JMO.

Yeah....what he said!! :laugh:

No, that's really the unfortunate part, though, and the lesson to be learned. He will be remembered more for being a jacka$$ and throwing his juvenile tempertantrums than his accomplishments. In the end, that's the bed he made for himself...not the media, or ESPN, or anybody else but him. If he doesn't like laying in it, perhaps he should learn to talk less and listen more. :thumpsup:

[Sabanocchio]

It is much easier to lose ones temper, get frustrated, scream, yell, choke people than it is to get one's point across without stooping to those levels. It sets a bad example when you act that way. It is the lazy way of doing things. You just can't go around acting that way in the real world.

[volimhtown]

not in the case pal, is all im trying to say.........not in this case

Yeah, Bro, but where do you draw that line?? Where is that measure of success an excuse?? I mean, if he only had 500 wins you wouldn't be backing him or excusing his actions?? Wrong is wrong, right??
I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand your stance on it!!

Sincerely,
Driveling Idiot :thumpsup:

[azamugg]

alot of sports fans question coaches and their tactics to death often accusing them of being too soft...........its not as attractive for a man to be harsh versus soft so of course people that don't understand would question it ..............but you guys are acting like Knight is not regrettful of some of the things he's done, of course he is, but when you feel and act w/such purpose and emotion you're gonna slip up...........hell ALL OF US IN ANGER AND/OR PASSION HAVE SLIPPED UP AND SAID OR ACTED IN A WAY WE REGRETTED LATER BUT IT ISNT DOCUMENTED FOR THE WORLD TO SEE AND TO SEE OVER AND OVER AND OVER

maybe you forgot one of my previous posts in this thread.............you can't design the personality of everyone you want to be an instrumental part of what you are doing, boy if you could, sweet........Knight was what he was, you knew it and decided whether to play for him or not, be a fan of him or not.............you guys are obviously a fan of Mr. Rogers as a basketball coach, more pire to you

[Sabanocchio]

I don't think anyone here is saying that Bob Knight is a bad person. I know he has friends in the coaching world that value his mentoring and appreciate him as a person. I know many good people with temper problems. But someone in Knight's position should have dealt with it years ago.

[Sabanocchio]

maybe you forgot one of my previous posts in this thread.............you can't design the personality of everyone you want to be an instrumental part of what you are doing, boy if you could, sweet........Knight was what he was, you knew it and decided whether to play for him or not, be a fan of him or not.............you guys are obviously a fan of Mr. Rogers as a basketball coach, more pire to you

As long as Mr. Rogers wins and doesn't throw chairs. :lol: :thumpsup:

[azamugg]

you also have to think....how many times are we in pressure situations, situations that test our meddle, our patience, our level of diplomacy, our tact?? well bball coaches, who are active in the game and right on top of it, are in that situation ALOT so that extreme purpose/emotion/passion is going to cause you to act in regrettful ways ALOT more often than we are..................If I had the passion that man has plus had to put up w/BS from fans plus had to put up with BS from the media, I would go off in ways and often that would make Knight look like mother theresa for gods sake

[azamugg]

Yeah, Bro, but where do you draw that line?? Where is that measure of success an excuse?? I mean, if he only had 500 wins you wouldn't be backing him or excusing his actions?? Wrong is wrong, right??
I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand your stance on it!!

Sincerely,
Driveling Idiot :thumpsup:


now where did that come from??:laugh:

[sheluvsbama]

A man can be a man and yet do things with compassion. A man knows how to be firm when firmness is warranted, but is not afraid to show tenderness when the occasion calls for it. A man doesn't need to lose his temper and resort to savage tactics in order to get his point across to anyone. A man knows how to discipline his players out of concern for them, not out of concern for his own reputation as a winner. Winning is not all there is to a man, but teaching humility and grace to his players, in both victory and defeat. This is a man, IMO.

[azamugg]

A man can be a man and yet do things with compassion. A man knows how to be firm when firmness is warranted, but is not afraid to show tenderness when the occasion calls for it. A man doesn't need to lose his temper and resort to savage tactics in order to get his point across to anyone. A man knows how to discipline his players out of concern for them, not out of concern for his own reputation as a winner. Winning is not all there is to a man, but teaching humility and grace to his players, in both victory and defeat. This is a man, IMO.

and who is to suggest that wasnt Bobby knight in many instances?

what if every time you had acted out inappropriately in any situation, and you regretted acting in a certain manner or regretted what you said BUT IT WAS VIDEO'D AND SHOWN OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND WRITTEN ABOUT OVER AND OVER AND OVER..........do you think people might be misled about who you really are?

[Sabanocchio]

and who is to suggest that wasnt Bobby knight in many instances?

what if every time you had acted out inappropriately in any situation, and you regretted acting in a certain manner or regretted what you said BUT IT WAS VIDEO'D AND SHOWN OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND WRITTEN ABOUT OVER AND OVER AND OVER..........do you think people might be misled about who you really are?
Yes, but when you repeat said behavior and it happens over a period of years, you simply verify people's suspicions.

[sheluvsbama]

Yes, but when you repeat said behavior and it happens over a period of years, you simply verify people's suspicions.

Absolutely. When you are in the public eye, in a high profile position, you have to be very careful about your reactions. Ofcourse we have ALL said and done things we are ashamed of, but we are not always faced with having those things displayed in public. It takes a vigilant mindfulness to keep a hot temper under control in oftentimes volatile situations. He was not very successful in that endeavour, or else he had no interest in attempting it. Abusive people rarely care about whether or not they show this behavior in public.

[The Ramp]

Yes, but when you repeat said behavior and it happens over a period of years, you simply verify people's suspicions.

the main word to be emphasized. if i could get away and act like a screaming child all day, i would too. but i can't.

[aufan]

Why does it ALWAYS have to be the negative things that people remember when talking about Knight? Yes he has done things that he shouldnt but why oh why can people, be it media or boards like this, talk about the good? That man has done so much for so many people and nobody realizes it--yes thats the media's fault but if you know anything about him, then you would know this. How about the coaching record? All-time winningst coach now. Better yet how about the simple fact that in all of his years of coaching, not one time has he ever been in trouble with the NCAA--EVER. Or how about the fact that he had the HIGHEST graduation rate in NCAA-thats highly overlooked. The stories about just helping people in general are numerous. The problem is the damn media does nothing but show negativity and that sucks because a lot of people-especially the younger generation-no nothing but the bad. I told myself when I saw this thread that I wasnt going to read because I knew it would tick me off what people had to say. I originally grew up in Indiana, thats why I am so defensive of him and now a lot about the man--he was a idol for me. I can easily admit that he has done some questionable things and I know he regrets some of those things--but is it worth giving no credit at all? Now that I am off of my soap box, if anybody disagrees, there will be no debates by me because I wont return to this thread because I know people will continue to criticize him. The man has now retired, how about giving credit where its due and be over it. I am obviously defensive on this subject.

[GatorBait15]

Most people will remember him as the guy throwing chairs and the guy that was a asshole but I will rememeber him as a winner!

[azamugg]

Absolutely. When you are in the public eye, in a high profile position, you have to be very careful about your reactions. Ofcourse we have ALL said and done things we are ashamed of, but we are not always faced with having those things displayed in public. It takes a vigilant mindfulness to keep a hot temper under control in oftentimes volatile situations. He was not very successful in that endeavour, or else he had no interest in attempting it. Abusive people rarely care about whether or not they show this behavior in public.

hope all you guys find success and happiness in Utopia where no one's feelings have to be hurt, no ones opinions challenged, no one's hopes dashed, etc

Good luck

[gatorunvrsty]

Most people will remember him as the guy throwing chairs and the guy that was a asshole but I will rememeber him as a winner!

I'll remember both. I've never challenged his genius as far as the game is concerned. What I WILL do is use him as the example of what not to do, when comparing him to other coaches who've accomplished the same things he has. It's only my opinion, but he's the perfect example of someone who thinks "The ends ALWAYS justify the means"... and my contention (and others') is that: that isn't true, and the "means" he used weren't necessary; and plenty of other coaches have proved it.

[crimsonnation713]

I have nothing witty,whimsical or even mildly amusing. So its time for a musical interlude. HERE TIS'.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK2HLC3_UxI

[The Ramp]

he DID great things but he's still an Ahole when he didn't have to be....end of story

[sheluvsbama]

Most people will remember him as the guy throwing chairs and the guy that was a asshole but I will rememeber him as a winner!

He was both. It was up to him the way he would be remembered. How he chose to conduct himself, AND his record of winning.

[the Paradox]

He was both. It was up to him the way he would be remembered. How he chose to conduct himself, AND his record of winning.


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/wahpuh/beatDeadHorse1-1.jpg


RTR

[sheluvsbama]

Yeah. You're right. We've all suffered enough, haven't we? :laugh: