For those hammering DMAC and gushing over Tebow, anwer me these 2 questions

[SWINETIME]

Who is the best running back in America?

not really any question.



Who is the best QB in the Nation?

Tebow?
Pat White?
Matt Ryan?
Chase Daniel?
Reesing?
Clown from Hawaii?
Woodson?
Stafford?
Dixon?





Also, DMAC could come closer to playing that Spread QB position than Tebow could to being a true tailback. I would say if DMAC played the spread QB position since HS like Tebow did he would be better than Tebow now. Tebow will NEVER be as good a runner as DMAC. DMAC is the best player in college FB. Tebow is good, but not better than DMAC.

[gatorunvrsty]

Who is the best running back in America?

not really any question.



Who is the best QB in the Nation?

Tebow?
Pat White?
Matt Ryan?
Chase Daniel?
Reesing?
Clown from Hawaii?
Woodson?
Stafford?
Dixon?





Also, DMAC could come closer to playing that Spread QB position than Tebow could to being a true tailback. I would say if DMAC played the spread QB position since HS like Tebow did he would be better than Tebow now. Tebow will NEVER be as good a runner as DMAC. DMAC is the best player in college FB. Tebow is good, but not better than DMAC.

That sets the new standard for ridiculous comments on a message board. DMac's going to throw for over 3000 yards? :wacko: And, DMac may be the best player in cfb, on the whole; but he wasn't the best player in cfb this season; which is all that's supposed to be taken into account. You don't get brownie points for prior seasons.

[SWINETIME]

That sets the new standard for ridiculous comments on a message board. DMac's going to throw for over 3000 yards? :wacko: And, DMac may be the best player in cfb, on the whole; but he wasn't the best player in cfb this season; which is all that's supposed to be taken into account. You don't get brownie points for prior seasons.


Says you! 1700 yrds I dont think is Shabby. All the spread QB's put up crazy numbers. So you think if Tebow played tailback exclusively, he would have back to back to back 1000+ yrds. DMAC is in elite status with the SEC's all time greatest RB's. Tebow is a bigger version of Alex Smith and will have about as much of an impact in the NFL. Can you say "product of the system". Tebow is a great player, but DMAC is better. That is my opinion.

[reese]

That sets the new standard for ridiculous comments on a message board. DMac's going to throw for over 3000 yards? :wacko: And, DMac may be the best player in cfb, on the whole; but he wasn't the best player in cfb this season; which is all that's supposed to be taken into account. You don't get brownie points for prior seasons.


co-sign:thumpsup:

[reese]

Says you! 1700 yrds I dont think is Shabby. All the spread QB's put up crazy numbers. So you think if Tebow played tailback exclusively, he would have back to back to back 1000+ yrds. DMAC is in elite status with the SEC's all time greatest RB's. Tebow is a bigger version of Alex Smith and will have about as much of an impact in the NFL. Can you say "product of the system". Tebow is a great player, but DMAC is better. That is my opinion.


back to back seasons has nuthin to do with the heisman this year...like he said u dont get brownie points for previous seasons

[GatorHunter]

Who is the best running back in America?

not really any question..

Actually, Kevin Smith of UCF (over 2,000yds, 180 ypg) is having a better year than McFadden...he may be the best RB in America...or at least, as much as the guys you've listed under Tebow are to him...:)


Who is the best QB in the Nation?

Tebow?
Pat White?
Matt Ryan?
Chase Daniel?
Reesing?
Clown from Hawaii?
Woodson?
Stafford?
Dixon?





Also, DMAC could come closer to playing that Spread QB position than Tebow could to being a true tailback. I would say if DMAC played the spread QB position since HS like Tebow did he would be better than Tebow now. Tebow will NEVER be as good a runner as DMAC. DMAC is the best player in college FB. Tebow is good, but not better than DMAC.

So your logic...Drew Miller is a better player than McFadden...sure he's an offensive lineman...but I doubt McFadden could go in and block a 290# DL for an entire game. You're comparing apples and oranges...and not doing a very good job of it...:lol:

[reese]

Says you! 1700 yrds I dont think is Shabby. All the spread QB's put up crazy numbers. So you think if Tebow played tailback exclusively, he would have back to back to back 1000+ yrds. DMAC is in elite status with the SEC's all time greatest RB's. Tebow is a bigger version of Alex Smith and will have about as much of an impact in the NFL. Can you say "product of the system". Tebow is a great player, but DMAC is better. That is my opinion.

yes dmac is in an elite status with other greats, tebow has done things this year that no other player has ever done, so he is in an elite catagory by himself

[SWINETIME]

yes dmac is in an elite status with other greats, tebow has done things this year that no other player has ever done, so he is in an elite catagory by himself

No I am saying that DMAC is a better Running back than Tebow is a QB. How did Tebow do against LSU:) LOL, I do think you get brownie points for 1700 yards though. 324 against USC, 200 against Alabama and LSU. Silly kid.

[reese]

No I am saying that DMAC is a better Running back than Tebow is a QB. How did Tebow do against LSU:) LOL, I do think you get brownie points for 1700 yards though. 324 against USC, 200 against Alabama and LSU. Silly kid.

tebow has had a better season as a qb then mcfadden has as a running back. tebow has put up numbers that nobody ever has b4.

dmac's 1700 yds is nothing compared to the top seasons that other great running backs have had

[gatoraus]

Matt Forte and Kevin Smith haven't had too shabby of seasons either. I love how Mcfadden was off the radar and he has two solid games and he is the front runner again.

P.S. Is it just me or does Mcfadden look like a razorback?

[Gator2753]

No I am saying that DMAC is a better Running back than Tebow is a QB. How did Tebow do against LSU:) LOL, I do think you get brownie points for 1700 yards though. 324 against USC, 200 against Alabama and LSU. Silly kid.

And Tebow is a much better QB. 29 TD passes for over 3100 yards.

Im not bashing Dmac. He is great and I wanted him to win the Heisman last year.

Its as simple as this. Tebow & Dmac. 2 great athletes. UF fans want Tebow to win. Ark fans want Dmac to win. The rest of the fans here are pretty much split.

Comparing Tebow and Dmac is comparing apples and oranges. Both run two totally different offenses and both are used in very different ways.

Why can't we just be happy that there is a very good chance that this years Heisman trophy winner will be in the SEC?

[Tennessee Ted]

You don't get brownie points for prior seasons.

However you do get brownie points for rushing for 200 + yards and scoring multiple touchdowns plus throwing a TD in defeating the #1 team in the country on national television. Tebow has ridiculous numbers, but he did not lead the Gators to victory in key games against LSU, Georgia, and Auburn.

[reese]

im a big dmac fan..i think he is a great player, but week in and week out tim tebow has been the best player in the country IMO

[gatorunvrsty]

tebow has had a better season as a qb then mcfadden has as a running back. tebow has put up numbers that nobody ever has b4.

dmac's 1700 yds is nothing compared to the top seasons that other great running backs have had

Exactly. McFadden is having a fine year; but, it isn't even one of the greatest rushing seasons in SEC history, much less NCAA history. Tebow has broken or tied all kinds of SEC AND NCAA records for a QB and any position.

[GatorChomp]

Swinetime, you are a huge homer.

Of course Tebow wouldn't put up McFadden's numbers rushing if he was a running back. He would have pretty solid numbers though (He would be a Hester type guy probably). You just can't compare positions like that (If player B was in player A's position he would suck...)

Saying he is the best RB easily does not make him any better htan Tebow either. It just means that there are less great RBs. Even so you can put Forte, Smith and Hart up with McFadden arguably. McFadden is better htan them, but in the same respect as Tebow is better than all the QBs you listed.

[GatorHunter]

No I am saying that DMAC is a better Running back than Tebow is a QB. How did Tebow do against LSU:) LOL, I do think you get brownie points for 1700 yards though. 324 against USC, 200 against Alabama and LSU. Silly kid.

Tebow actually had a decent game vs LSU...how did McFadden do vs Auburn.:) Tebow rushed for 75 yds vs Auburn....McFadden had 43yds...:rolleyes:

Not to mention, Tebow has over 800yds rushing....McFadden has 1,700...Tebow has over 3,000yds passing...McFadden has less than 200yds...so, by my count...Tebow is "half" the RB McFadden is and 15 times the passer...:D

[GatorChomp]

However you do get brownie points for rushing for 200 + yards and scoring multiple touchdowns plus throwing a TD in defeating the #1 team in the country on national television. Tebow has ridiculous numbers, but he did not lead the Gators to victory in key games against LSU, Georgia, and Auburn.

How about DMac leading his team to victory against Auburn? He decided not to show up against one of hte best teams they played. They only lost by 2 points. If McFadden showed up, they win the game. Give me one game where Tebow didn't show up or have a decent game.

McFadden did not lead his team to victories against Alabama, Kentucky, Auburn and Tennessee?

You can't take TEAM losses and put them on the player just because the team loses the game. In Florida's losses Tebow played fine. He didn't play as well as in other games, but he definitely didn't blow the games. Same with McFadden against Alabama and Kentucky. He had 195 against Bama and 173 yards against Kentucky with 3 total touchdowns. That isn't bad. However, in Arkansas's other two losses against Auburn and Tennessee McFadden did not score a single touchdown. THAT is not something a Heisman does.

[the Prodigy]

As Arkansas fans, we have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that because we live in a small state, fewer people pay attention to the Razorbacks, and the Truly great players that come out of Arkansas. In college football, Awards are a lot like High School elections. The popular kids get the votes. Tebow is the popular kid who will be driving a Taxi cab after High School. While McFadden is the nerd in the corner who will be making billions of dollars in a couple years.

I've come to terms with two things.... Tim Tebow will probably win the Heisman, which he doesn't deserve. And Darren McFadden will be making millions of dollars in the NFL and justfully be recognized as one of the best players in his profession.

Congradulations for Tim Tebow.... the popular kid who peaked in High School, just like every other product-of-the-system-pretender-qb to come out of Florida.

[GatorChomp]

As Arkansas fans, we have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that because we live in a small state, fewer people pay attention to the Razorbacks, and the Truly great players that come out of Arkansas. In college football, Awards are a lot like High School elections. The popular kids get the votes. Tebow is the popular kid who will be driving a Taxi cab after High School. While McFadden is the nerd in the corner who will be making billions of dollars in a couple years.

I've come to terms with two things.... Tim Tebow will probably win the Heisman, which he doesn't deserve. And Darren McFadden will be making millions of dollars in the NFL and justfully be recognized as one of the best players in his profession.

Congradulations for Tim Tebow.... the popular kid who peaked in High School, just like every other product-of-the-system-pretender-qb to come out of Florida.
Comparing McFadden to a nerd and Tebow to a popular kid? Wow.

Tell us why Tebow doesn't deserve the Heisman.

I will be the first to say McFadden deserves the Heisman...BUT the question is whether he deserves it more than Tebow does, and I don't think he does.

[reese]

As Arkansas fans, we have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that because we live in a small state, fewer people pay attention to the Razorbacks, and the Truly great players that come out of Arkansas. In college football, Awards are a lot like High School elections. The popular kids get the votes. Tebow is the popular kid who will be driving a Taxi cab after High School. While McFadden is the nerd in the corner who will be making billions of dollars in a couple years.

I've come to terms with two things.... Tim Tebow will probably win the Heisman, which he doesn't deserve. And Darren McFadden will be making millions of dollars in the NFL and justfully be recognized as one of the best players in his profession.

Congradulations for Tim Tebow.... the popular kid who peaked in High School, just like every other product-of-the-system-pretender-qb to come out of Florida.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/riley12_18/he_hate_me.jpg

[GatorHunter]

However you do get brownie points for rushing for 200 + yards and scoring multiple touchdowns plus throwing a TD in defeating the #1 team in the country on national television. Tebow has ridiculous numbers, but he did not lead the Gators to victory in key games against LSU, Georgia, and Auburn.

That's three games that "he did not lead the Gators to victory"...but he smoked UT...the SEC East Champ. Arky won a close one vs LSU, the West Champ...see, you can compare all you want...but there's always 2 sides. Also, you give Tebow credit for not leading the Gators to victories over LSU, UGA and Auburn...but what about McFadden? He didn't lead his team to victory on 4 occasions...;)

[GatorHunter]

As Arkansas fans, we have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that because we live in a small state, fewer people pay attention to the Razorbacks, and the Truly great players that come out of Arkansas. In college football, Awards are a lot like High School elections. The popular kids get the votes. Tebow is the popular kid who will be driving a Taxi cab after High School. While McFadden is the nerd in the corner who will be making billions of dollars in a couple years.

I've come to terms with two things.... Tim Tebow will probably win the Heisman, which he doesn't deserve. And Darren McFadden will be making millions of dollars in the NFL and justfully be recognized as one of the best players in his profession.

Congradulations for Tim Tebow.... the popular kid who peaked in High School, just like every other product-of-the-system-pretender-qb to come out of Florida.

Sour Grapes defined...

[Tennessee Ted]

How about DMac leading his team to victory against Auburn? He decided not to show up against one of hte best teams they played. They only lost by 2 points. If McFadden showed up, they win the game. Give me one game where Tebow didn't show up or have a decent game.

McFadden did not lead his team to victories against Alabama, Kentucky, Auburn and Tennessee?

You can't take TEAM losses and put them on the player just because the team loses the game. In Florida's losses Tebow played fine. He didn't play as well as in other games, but he definitely didn't blow the games. Same with McFadden against Alabama and Kentucky. He had 195 against Bama and 173 yards against Kentucky with 3 total touchdowns. That isn't bad. However, in Arkansas's other two losses against Auburn and Tennessee McFadden did not score a single touchdown. THAT is not something a Heisman does.

I am just playing devil's advocate. Tebow and McFadden both deserve the award in my opinion. I just hope they do not split votes and let another less deserving candidate in.

I think Tebow detractors will find fault in the three loses and put that more on his shoulders than they would put the blame on McFadden for Arkansas' losses. This is because the QB is a more important position and when your team loses you get more of the blame. This is probably not fair, but I think some voters think that way.

Also, McFadden's QB is Dick and McFadden did an amazing job trying to overcome the passing weakness. This allowed certain teams to shut him down.

[Gator2753]

Congradulations for Tim Tebow.... the popular kid who peaked in High School, just like every other product-of-the-system-pretender-qb to come out of Florida.

I admit, I am jealous that we can't produce QB's of Casey Dick's caliber.

[the Prodigy]

Comparing McFadden to a nerd and Tebow to a popular kid? Wow.

Tell us why Tebow doesn't deserve the Heisman.

I will be the first to say McFadden deserves the Heisman...BUT the question is whether he deserves it more than Tebow does, and I don't think he does.

I should clarify.... Tebow's Numbers.... deserve the Heisman.... Tebow's redzone OL performance deserves the Heisman.... But not the Way darren McFadden's destruction of LSU, South Carolina and the then not so laughable Alabama. McFadden show's up for the big games, always has. Tebow runs his numbers up against directional schools from South Carolina and the Swamp....

They both deserve the Heisman.... But Tebow shouldn't get it because he isn't the best player in the nation. Darren McFadden is.

[GatorChomp]

I am just playing devil's advocate. Tebow and McFadden both deserve the award in my opinion. I just hope they do not split votes and let another less deserving candidate in.

I think Tebow detractors will find fault in the three loses and put that more on his shoulders than they would put the blame on McFadden for Arkansas' losses. This is because the QB is a more important position and when your team loses you get more of the blame. This is probably not fair, but I think some voters think that way.

Also, McFadden's QB is Dick and McFadden did an amazing job trying to overcome the passing weakness. This allowed certain teams to shut him down.

Just like Florida's leading rushers are a QB and WR... Tebow isn't really playing with much of a ground game either. So people just havfe to shut down Tebow for the most part and nobody has.

[reese]

I should clarify.... Tebow's Numbers.... deserve the Heisman.... Tebow's redzone OL performance deserves the Heisman.... But not the Way darren McFadden's destruction of LSU, South Carolina and the then not so laughable Alabama. McFadden show's up for the big games, always has. Tebow runs his numbers up against directional schools from South Carolina and the Swamp....

They both deserve the Heisman.... But Tebow shouldn't get it because he isn't the best player in the nation. Darren McFadden is.

tebow destoyed south carolina just like mcfadden did
vs ut he had over 350 total yds and 4 tds
vs aburn he had almost 300 total yds and 2tds
vs lsu over 200 yds and 3 tds
vs ky over 300 yds and 5 tds
vs uga over 200 yds and 3 tds


looks to me like he puts up big numbers against everyone

[GatorChomp]

I should clarify.... Tebow's Numbers.... deserve the Heisman.... Tebow's redzone OL performance deserves the Heisman.... But not the Way darren McFadden's destruction of LSU, South Carolina and the then not so laughable Alabama. McFadden show's up for the big games, always has. Tebow runs his numbers up against directional schools from South Carolina and the Swamp....

They both deserve the Heisman.... But Tebow shouldn't get it because he isn't the best player in the nation. Darren McFadden is.

You still haven't said HOW McFadden is the best player in the nation or given proof for your comments.

Good job beating two 6-6 teams and LSU. Similarly, Tebow destroyed FSU (7-5, beat Alabama), USC (same team you used, 7 touchdowns), Tennessee (SEC East champ, always a tough game). How about McFadden's showing against Auburn? 43 yards on 17 carries is PATHETIC. Tebow had 75 yards against the same defense with 19 carries.

Say what you want, but don't be selective when you choose your stats and games. Tebow has destroyed just as good teams as McFadden has with the exception of LSU. Saying McFadden gets up for "big games" by using USC and Alabama is bull since Arkansas lost to Auburn and Tennessee. Auburn and Tennessee are both ranked while Alabama and USC are unranked.

[the Prodigy]

I admit, I am jealous that we can't produce QB's of Casey Dick's caliber.

Never said Arkansas prduced good QB's. But you're a crazy person if you think Danny Weurffel etc....etc....etc.... aren't products of the system. Those guys get exposed in the NFL, regardless of where they go to school. I'd say the same about Colt Brennan, or anyone who goes to Texas Tech. Tim Tebow is that guy, I'm sorry.

[Hawginitall]

Exactly. McFadden is having a fine year; but, it isn't even one of the greatest rushing seasons in SEC history, much less NCAA history. Tebow has broken or tied all kinds of SEC AND NCAA records for a QB and any position.

McFadden's 1725 rushing yards is the 3rd most ever by an SEC back, and the season isn't over yet. I guess I could point out that Tebow's passing yards aren't anywhere near an SEC record, but that would be just as silly, even though much more accurate. These threads detriorate so fast. I'm just here to monitor the stupid statements, carry on.

[GatorChomp]

Never said Arkansas prduced good QB's. But you're a crazy person if you think Danny Weurffel etc....etc....etc.... aren't products of the system. Those guys get exposed in the NFL, regardless of where they go to school. I'd say the same about Colt Brennan, or anyone who goes to Texas Tech. Tim Tebow is that guy, I'm sorry.
Tell me where a rule states that the Heisman must transition well into the NFL?

Doesn't make Tebow any less worthy of it, and I doubt it is true. Florida has never had a Tebow come through.

[Gator2753]

McFadden's 1725 rushing yards is the 3rd most ever by an SEC back, and the season isn't over yet. I guess I could point out that Tebow's passing yards aren't anywhere near an SEC record, but that would be just as silly, even though much more accurate. These threads detriorate so fast. I'm just here to monitor the stupid statements, carry on.

Well Tebows 22 rushing TD's are a record. Around and around we go. It will never end. Apples and Oranges

[reese]

McFadden's 1725 rushing yards is the 3rd most ever by an SEC back, and the season isn't over yet. I guess I could point out that Tebow's passing yards aren't anywhere near an SEC record, but that would be just as silly, even though much more accurate. These threads detriorate so fast. I'm just here to monitor the stupid statements, carry on.

sure his passing yards isnt anywhere near an sec record, he's dual threat qb that runs alot. his combined numbers tho are something weve never seen b4

[the Prodigy]

You still haven't said HOW McFadden is the best player in the nation or given proof for your comments.

Good job beating two 6-6 teams and LSU. Similarly, Tebow destroyed FSU (7-5, beat Alabama), USC (same team you used, 7 touchdowns), Tennessee (SEC East champ, always a tough game). How about McFadden's showing against Auburn? 43 yards on 17 carries is PATHETIC. Tebow had 75 yards against the same defense with 19 carries.

Say what you want, but don't be selective when you choose your stats and games. Tebow has destroyed just as good teams as McFadden has with the exception of LSU. Saying McFadden gets up for "big games" by using USC and Alabama is bull since Arkansas lost to Auburn and Tennessee. Auburn and Tennessee are both ranked while Alabama and USC are unranked.


Just watch the games.... do the eye test. McFadden is just better.

[WarEagle73]

I think DMac helped his cause with his performance in the LSU game but when the voters are looking over their choices they will have to see that he was pretty much shut down in the Auburn game (43 or so yards rushing) and that will hurt is cause pretty bad. On the other hand Tebow has been more consistent and set several records. The only thing that might hurt Tebow's chances is the fact he is a sophomore and there may be enough voters not wanting to break with tradition. Both are outstanding players and were it not for the fact of each of them playing in the same season each would probably be a lock for the Heisman.

[Hawginitall]

sure his passing yards isnt anywhere near an sec record, he's dual threat qb that runs alot. his combined numbers tho are something weve never seen b4

Speaking of numbers we've never seen before, McFadden set the single season All-purpose yardage record for the SEC against LSU. And that doesn't include his passing, just running, receiving and kick returns. McFadden's name is all over the SEC record book. With a big game in the bowl, he can set the single season rushing record, he's already set the single season all-purpose yardage record, he needs less than his average per game to pass Bo into second all-time SEC rusher, his TD total is top 10, his career average per carry is top 10, his career average per game is second, his all purpose career total is top 5. And he's a junior, go figure.

It's fine to say Tebow deserves the award, if I had a vote, he'd get mine. But it's foolish not to recognize D-Mac as one of the greatest players in SEC history.

[the Prodigy]

I think DMac helped his cause with his performance in the LSU game but when the voters are looking over their choices they will have to see that he was pretty much shut down in the Auburn game (43 or so yards rushing) and that will hurt is cause pretty bad. On the other hand Tebow has been more consistent and set several records. The only thing that might hurt Tebow's chances is the fact he is a sophomore and there may be enough voters not wanting to break with tradition. Both are outstanding players and were it not for the fact of each of them playing in the same season each would probably be a lock for the Heisman.

His performance in the Auburn Game didn't help matters. But It was more his OL that didn't show up, not McFadden. The same is true of Tennessee.

[SWINETIME]

McFadden's 1725 rushing yards is the 3rd most ever by an SEC back, and the season isn't over yet. I guess I could point out that Tebow's passing yards aren't anywhere near an SEC record, but that would be just as silly, even though much more accurate. These threads detriorate so fast. I'm just here to monitor the stupid statements, carry on.

Yea here is another average stat from Mcfadden since Tebow fans say he had and average year.

The running back piled up 255 all-purpose yards against LSU. He now has 2,172 all-purpose yards this season, which breaks the Southeastern Conference’s single-season record."



I think Tebow is a great player. Dont get me wrong, but DMAC is the best player.

[Gator2753]

Speaking of numbers we've never seen before, McFadden set the single season All-purpose yardage record for the SEC against LSU. And that doesn't include his passing, just running, receiving and kick returns. McFadden's name is all over the SEC record book. With a big game in the bowl, he can set the single season rushing record, he's already set the single season all-purpose yardage record, he needs less than his average per game to pass Bo into second all-time SEC rusher, his TD total is top 10, his career average per carry is top 10, his career average per game is second, his all purpose career total is top 5. And he's a junior, go figure.

It's fine to say Tebow deserves the award, if I had a vote, he'd get mine. But it's foolish not to recognize D-Mac as one of the greatest players in SEC history.


I agree w/ you here. Also I didn't realize that Dmac is about to surpass BO.
AuBlaaake is probably sweating bullets:laugh:

[reese]

Speaking of numbers we've never seen before, McFadden set the single season All-purpose yardage record for the SEC against LSU. And that doesn't include his passing, just running, receiving and kick returns. McFadden's name is all over the SEC record book. With a big game in the bowl, he can set the single season rushing record, he's already set the single season all-purpose yardage record, he needs less than his average per game to pass Bo into second all-time SEC rusher, his TD total is top 10, his career average per carry is top 10, his career average per game is second, his all purpose career total is top 5. And he's a junior, go figure.

It's fine to say Tebow deserves the award, if I had a vote, he'd get mine. But it's foolish not to recognize D-Mac as one of the greatest players in SEC history.

this argument isnt about if dmac is one of the best players in sec history. the stats and achievements he has accumulated over his career are of no value. this season is all that matters. while dmac may have broken some sec records or at least got close to some, tebow has done things no player has ever done. tell me 1 thing dmac has done this season that he is the 1st to do. where does his season total rank among the all time ncaa leaders?

[the Prodigy]

And still no response to Tebow being a system Qb. I'm guessing that is because you know it's true. And you don't want to admit. A lot of those stats are padded because he plays the whole game against weak opponents, and lets the rest of his team do all the work while he takes the bows.... HE'S A SYSTEM QB IF I'VE EVER SEEN ONE!

[reese]

Yea here is another average stat from Mcfadden since Tebow fans say he had and average year.

The running back piled up 255 all-purpose yards against LSU. He now has 2,172 all-purpose yards this season, which breaks the Southeastern Conference’s single-season record."



I think Tebow is a great player. Dont get me wrong, but DMAC is the best player.


that isnt even in the same breath as the ncaa d1-a record tho. and this is a national award not an sec one

[reese]

And still no response to Tebow being a system Qb. I'm guessing that is because you know it's true. And you don't want to admit. A lot of those stats are padded because he plays the whole game against weak opponents, and lets the rest of his team do all the work while he takes the bows.... HE'S A SYSTEM QB IF I'VE EVER SEEN ONE!

tim tebow isnt the 1st to be in this system and yet he has put up numbers nobody else in this system ever did. so its must be more then just the system

[Gator2753]

And still no response to Tebow being a system Qb. I'm guessing that is because you know it's true. And you don't want to admit. A lot of those stats are padded because he plays the whole game against weak opponents, and lets the rest of his team do all the work while he takes the bows.... HE'S A SYSTEM QB IF I'VE EVER SEEN ONE!

lol. If thats the case then Dmac is a system RB if there ever was one. He pads his stats b/c Arkansas only throws the ball what...10 times a game.:laugh:

Around and around we go.

[the Prodigy]

lol. If thats the case then Dmac is a system RB if there ever was one. He pads his stats b/c Arkansas only throws the ball what...10 times a game.:laugh:

Around and around we go.

Of course D Dawg shares that "system" position with Felix Jones, who is also an SEC record setting back. And it's more like 20 times a game.:dry:

[GatorChomp]

His performance in the Auburn Game didn't help matters. But It was more his OL that didn't show up, not McFadden. The same is true of Tennessee.

His OL didn't show up? How come Felix jones did fine? 6 carries for 42 yards rushign (7.0 avg) to McFadden's 17 carries for 43 yards (2.5 avg). Did the line just decide not to block for McFadden? Please.

[GatorChomp]

Just watch the games.... do the eye test. McFadden is just better.
Thanks for the evidence that McFadden is better...

[UFGatorFan]

http://www.smiliesftw.com/x/inoutugh.gif

tebow>>>>>>macfaddens life

[the Prodigy]

His OL didn't show up? How come Felix jones did fine? 6 carries for 42 yards rushign (7.0 avg) to McFadden's 17 carries for 43 yards (2.5 avg). Did the line just decide not to block for McFadden? Please.

I'll let your ignorant comments here slide because they are based on your lack of understanding how the Arkansas offense works....

[reese]

I'll let your ignorant comments here slide because they are based on your lack of understanding how the Arkansas offense works....

how about u explain it to us then coach

[UFGatorFan]

thats what tebow will be sayin to macfadden after he wins the heisman

[the Prodigy]

Thanks for the evidence that McFadden is better...

I'm serious.... go find some highlight film of the two players and compare them.

There is not a doubt in my mind that Carson Palmer is always going to have better numbers than LT. But There also isn't a doubt in my mind that LT is the more talented of the two - by far. You just have to watch the games, do the eye test.

[Hawginitall]

sure his passing yards isnt anywhere near an sec record, he's dual threat qb that runs alot. his combined numbers tho are something weve never seen b4

that isnt even in the same breath as the ncaa d1-a record tho. and this is a national award not an sec one

Are you basing it all on his TD record? It's incredible, for sure. But other than that, Tebow ranks 20th in passing yards, 7th in total offense. McFadden ranks 3rd in rushing, 10th in all purpose yards. So McFadden has had at least as big an impact in the national stats as Tebow. Your comment that McFadden's SEC achievemnts are meaningless presupposes that it's no tougher to do those things in the SEC. Fact is that McFadden has done things against SEC competion, considered by all to be the best, that no other player has ever done. To disregard all-time SEC records as having no place in the discussion shows you're not changing your mind no matter what anyone says.

I agree this arguement can go on forever. But Tebow is no more an obvious choice than McFadden, or Daniel for that matter. Any of the three could win, and a vote for any of the three can be justified.

[the Prodigy]

how about u explain it to us then coach

Felix Jones gets the ball usually on the mis-direction which means that the entire team will be following McFadden, Hillis, or a reciever (pick one). That is why Jones has such a great YPC avg. a game. most of the time he doesn't have a defender in his face, there is some field there for him to work with. Jones has gone a straight out had off maybe 10 times this season. He can do it. But when his YPC is below 9 he isn't having a great game by Jones or Arkansas' offensive standards. It is all about production and game plan. He gets great yards on the mis-direction because he is fast, and he can out-run the majority of CB's who are frozen by the mis-direction.

[reese]

Are you basing it all on his TD record? It's incredible, for sure. But other than that, Tebow ranks 20th in passing yards, 7th in total offense. McFadden ranks 3rd in rushing, 10th in all purpose yards. So McFadden has had at least as big an impact in the national stats as Tebow. Your comment that McFadden's SEC achievemnts are meaningless presupposes that it's no tougher to do those things in the SEC. Fact is that McFadden has done things against SEC competion, considered by all to be the best, that no other player has ever done. To disregard all-time SEC records as having no place in the discussion shows you're not changing your mind no matter what anyone says.

I agree this arguement can go on forever. But Tebow is no more an obvious choice than McFadden, or Daniel for that matter. Any of the three could win, and a vote for any of the three can be justified.

i asked 2 questions...u didnt answer either of them

[reese]

Felix Jones gets the ball usually on the mis-direction which means that the entire team will be following McFadden, Hillis, or a reciever (pick one). That is why Jones has such a great YPC avg. a game. most of the time he doesn't have a defender in his face, there is some field there for him to work with. Jones has gone a straight out had off maybe 10 times this season. He can do it. But when his YPC is below 9 he isn't having a great game by Jones or Arkansas' offensive standards. It is all about production and game plan. He gets great yards on the mis-direction because he is fast, and he can out-run the majority of CB's who are frozen by the mis-direction.

didnt seem to slow dmac down in the other games...fact is he just flat out got shut down against auburn and jones did not and it has nuthin to do with the types of plays the ran becuz they run those same plays in every game

[reese]

copy and pasted this from gatorhunter in the florida forum

Tim Tebow has rushed for more touchdowns than option quarterback Eric Crouch did when he won the Heisman at Nebraska in 2001. His numbers are also more impressive than those of former UF quarterbacks Rex Grossman, the runner-up in 2001, and Danny Wuerffel, who won the Heisman in 1996.

Tebow has rushed for more touchdowns than USC tailback Reggie Bush and thrown for more touchdowns than USC’s Matt Leinart did in 2005 when they contended for the award, which Bush won. Not only do Tebow’s stats surpass those of former winners, but they blow those of the other Heisman contenders out of the water.

Missouri’s Chase Daniel has accounted for 15 fewer touchdowns than Tebow, and his passer rating is more than 20 points lower.

Arkansas’ running back Darren McFadden has rushed for seven fewer touchdowns than Tebow. And against their seven common opponents, Tebow accounted for 30 touchdowns, while McFadden totaled six.

While West Virginia quarterback Pat White has only played one fewer game than Tebow, he’ll need 1,328 total yards and 25 touchdowns against Pittsburgh next week to equal Tebow’s numbers.

Now...is there really any arguments? Shouldn't be.

[the Prodigy]

didnt seem to slow dmac down in the other games...fact is he just flat out got shut down against auburn and jones did not and it has nuthin to do with the types of plays the ran becuz they run those same plays in every game

Back do my original reason for stating all of that, which you seem to have disregarded, OL didn't show up in two games this season, Auburn and Tennessee. That has a lot to do with inexperience at LT as well as injuries to the OL at every spot but center.

Obviously something is wrong other than Darren McFadden's talent level and ability if he can rush for 200+ against an LSU team that hasn't allowed a single player to go over 100 yards between last year when they played Arkansas and this year when they played Arkansas.

[the Prodigy]

copy and pasted this from gatorhunter in the florida forum

Tim Tebow has rushed for more touchdowns than option quarterback Eric Crouch did when he won the Heisman at Nebraska in 2001. His numbers are also more impressive than those of former UF quarterbacks Rex Grossman, the runner-up in 2001, and Danny Wuerffel, who won the Heisman in 1996.

Tebow has rushed for more touchdowns than USC tailback Reggie Bush and thrown for more touchdowns than USC’s Matt Leinart did in 2005 when they contended for the award, which Bush won. Not only do Tebow’s stats surpass those of former winners, but they blow those of the other Heisman contenders out of the water.

Missouri’s Chase Daniel has accounted for 15 fewer touchdowns than Tebow, and his passer rating is more than 20 points lower.

Arkansas’ running back Darren McFadden has rushed for seven fewer touchdowns than Tebow. And against their seven common opponents, Tebow accounted for 30 touchdowns, while McFadden totaled six.

While West Virginia quarterback Pat White has only played one fewer game than Tebow, he’ll need 1,328 total yards and 25 touchdowns against Pittsburgh next week to equal Tebow’s numbers.

Now...is there really any arguments? Shouldn't be.

The game of football is about more than scoring TD's from two and three yards out to pad average numbers against less than average teams.

[Hawginitall]

copy and pasted this from gatorhunter in the florida forum

against their seven common opponents, Tebow accounted for 30 touchdowns, while McFadden totaled six.

.

And again, this is incorrect. Why lie about the facts? It's too easy to look them up.

[reese]

The game of football is about more than scoring TD's from two and three yards out to pad average numbers against less than average teams.

ive already pointed out how false that is

ur right it is more then just those short rushing tds...good thing he has also thrwon for 3100 yds and 29 tds...and lets not forget only 6 ints

[razorhead]

Florida offensive players purposely step out of bounds inside the 5 yard line so that Tebow can pad his TD stats. That's what my sources tell me, and we all know how good sources are around here.

[reese]

And again, this is incorrect. Why lie about the facts? It's too easy to look them up.

yea it was tebow 30...dmac 9

[the Prodigy]

ive already pointed out how false that is

ur right it is more then just those short rushing tds...good thing he has also thrwon for 3100 yds and 29 tds...and lets not forget only 6 ints

No you really haven't. And you can't show me how Tebow isn't a product of that system. Watch the games, if he pulled that stuff in the NFL he'd be eaten alive. Darren McFadden can do what he does in any system on any level (that is speculatively of course). Chris Leak who is 4'8" and shies away from contact put up record setting numbers in that offense, why wouldn't a moderately better QB put up monster numbers?

[Hawginitall]

yea it was tebow 30...dmac 9

So why would a Gator fan get it wrong? Too busy trying to make the other guy look bad to explain why a guy behind 20 other QB's should win the award.

(See how that works? I can take even true facts and slant them to make Tebow look unworthy.)

[gatorunvrsty]

McFadden's 1725 rushing yards is the 3rd most ever by an SEC back, and the season isn't over yet. I guess I could point out that Tebow's passing yards aren't anywhere near an SEC record, but that would be just as silly, even though much more accurate. These threads detriorate so fast. I'm just here to monitor the stupid statements, carry on.

No it's not; it's the 4th most, and all those other backs did it in 11 games, not 12. Take away DMac's last game, and he's got 1519; which would put him at 11th on the all-time list. http://www.secsports.com/doc_lib/fbc_record_book.pdf

[Hawginitall]

No it's not; it's the 4th most, and all those other backs did it in 11 games, not 12. Take away DMac's last game, and he's got 1519; which would put him at 11th on the all-time list. http://www.secsports.com/doc_lib/fbc_record_book.pdf


hahahahahahahahah. good one. Okay, I choose to take away his auburn game.ahahahahahahah

fourth best, and all those other backs, I'll list them.

Herschel (twice)
Bo

[GatorHunter]

No you really haven't. And you can't show me how Tebow isn't a product of that system. Watch the games, if he pulled that stuff in the NFL he'd be eaten alive. Darren McFadden can do what he does in any system on any level (that is speculatively of course). Chris Leak who is 4'8" and shies away from contact put up record setting numbers in that offense, why wouldn't a moderately better QB put up monster numbers?

Are you on crack? Leak's numbers were "respectable"...but they weren't great by any means...and he sure as heck didn't put up any "record setting numbers"...talk about slanting the facts.:laugh:

[GatorHunter]

So why would a Gator fan get it wrong? Too busy trying to make the other guy look bad to explain why a guy behind 20 other QB's should win the award.

(See how that works? I can take even true facts and slant them to make Tebow look unworthy.)

I didn't get it wrong, I copied and pasted that from a National Board. What's the difference...either Tebow has 24 more TDs or 21 more TDs...that's still a huge difference. Behind 20 other QBs? What are you talkin' about?:ph34r:

[reese]

No you really haven't. And you can't show me how Tebow isn't a product of that system. Watch the games, if he pulled that stuff in the NFL he'd be eaten alive. Darren McFadden can do what he does in any system on any level (that is speculatively of course). Chris Leak who is 4'8" and shies away from contact put up record setting numbers in that offense, why wouldn't a moderately better QB put up monster numbers?

if he is a product of the system then show me another qb that did equal to what he did in the same system...ill wait

[GatorHunter]

Florida offensive players purposely step out of bounds inside the 5 yard line so that Tebow can pad his TD stats. That's what my sources tell me, and we all know how good sources are around here.


:laugh::rofl::LOL_Hair::lolup::rolling2::icon_rofl

That's the funniest BS I've ever heard!!!!!!!!! I suppose Percy Harvin stepped out of bounds at the 23 yd line vs f$u so Tebow could run a 23yd TD!!!!:laugh:

BTW, our coach didn't beg the media for Heisman consideration for Tebow...:rolleyes:...as a matter of fact, Meyer has refused to comment on it as has Tebow.

[the Prodigy]

Are you on crack? Leak's numbers were "respectable"...but they weren't great by any means...and he sure as heck didn't put up any "record setting numbers"...talk about slanting the facts.:laugh:

I do believe he holds Florida's career record for TD passes and yards....

[Hawginitall]

Are you on crack? Leak's numbers were "respectable"...but they weren't great by any means...and he sure as heck didn't put up any "record setting numbers"...talk about slanting the facts.:laugh:

Leak is the all-time leader in Florida history for attempts, completions and yardage, second in TD's. Those are record setting numbers.

Tebow is 20th in the NCAA in passing yards this season. Again, my point was to mirror what you're doing. Take the worst stat you can find from the other guy and argue it proves he's not worthy. Not only that, you get the facts wrong. At least I'm taking true facts and distorting them, lol.

[JerryBeeds]

Who's been "hammering" DMAC?

[gatorunvrsty]

hahahahahahahahah. good one. Okay, I choose to take away his auburn game.ahahahahahahah

fourth best, and all those other backs, I'll list them.

Herschel (twice)
Bo

I'll be fair... take one using his average of 138 (an average that, btw, would place him 9th). That gives him 1587, which also leaves him 9th. Look, any way you cut it, it's a great season; but, it just isn't Heisman worthy. Look at all the better seasons ahead of him that didn't win the award, INCLUDING HIS OWN LAST YEAR. He's got 78 more yards this year, and his stats are still for 12 games, while everyone else's are for 11.

1. 1,891— Herschel Walker, Georgia (385 rushes) .................................................. ..................1981
2. 1,786— Bo Jackson, Auburn (278 rushes)........................................... ..................................1985
3. 1,752— Herschel Walker, Georgia (335 rushes) .................................................. ..................1982
4. 1,686— Charles Alexander, LSU (311 rushes) .................................................. .....................1977
5. 1,647— Darren McFadden, Arkansas (284 rushes)........................................... .....................2006
6. 1,616— Herschel Walker, Georgia (274 rushes) .................................................. ..................1980
7. 1,600— Moe Williams, Kentucky (294 rushes) .................................................. .....................1995
8. 1,599— Emmitt Smith, Florida (284 rushes) .................................................. ........................1989
9. 1,567— Rudi Johnson, Auburn (324 rushes)........................................... ...............................2000
10. 1,547— Garrison Hearst, Georgia (228 rushes) .................................................. ..................1992
11. 1,471— Bobby Humphrey, Alabama (236 rushes) .................................................. ...............1986

YARDS PER GAME
SEASON:
1. 171.9— Herschel Walker, Georgia (1,891 in 11 games)............................................ ............1981
2. 162.4— Bo Jackson, Auburn (1,786 in 11 games) .................................................. ..............1985
3. 159.3— Herschel Walker, Georgia (1,752 in 11 games)............................................ ............1982
4. 153.3— Charles Alexander, LSU (1,686 in 11 games) .................................................. .........1977
5. 146.9— Herschel Walker, Georgia (1,616 in 11 games)............................................ ............1980
6. 145.5— Moe Williams, Kentucky (1,600 in 11 games)............................................ ...............1995
7. 145.4— Emmitt Smith, Florida (1,599 in 11 games) .................................................. ............1989
8. 140.6— Garrison Hearst, Georgia (1,547 in 11 games)............................................ ............1992
9. 131.2— Johnny Dottley, Ole Miss (1,312 in 10 games) .................................................. .......1949

[the Prodigy]

if he is a product of the system then show me another qb that did equal to what he did in the same system...ill wait

Put up monster numbers and then crapped out in the NFL (as I suspect Tebow will just like every other florida qb.) where should I start.... Weurffel, Brennan, White, Smith, Leaf, any QB from Texas Tech.... and any Qb from florida....

To his credit.... Urban Meyer is the best coach in the country, Tebow is a product of Florida's great coach, their great recruiting power and their decision to play him all or most of the game against crappy teams with horrible redzone defenses. Tebow, at Clemson or South Carolina or Alabama or ARKANSAS or cal or Missouri or nebraska is just another decent player on a team that doesn't have the resources or the recruiting pull that Florida has. He is a product of his environment. It may take a couple or years for you to realize it. But he is just another average QB who got a lot of looks and consideration and stat monkeys because he is at FLORIDA.

[GatorHunter]

I do believe he holds Florida's career record for TD passes and yards....

Yea...but it's not because he was a "product of the system"...it's because he's the first QB in UF history to start from day one of his freshman season until he graduated. BTW, Leak didn't have 29 TD passes or 3,000yds last season after 12 games...which was his second year starting in Meyer's offense. This is Tim's first.:)

[reese]

Put up monster numbers and then crapped out in the NFL (as I suspect Tebow will just like every other florida qb.) where should I start.... Weurffel, Brennan, White, Smith, Leaf, any QB from Texas Tech.... and any Qb from florida....

To his credit.... Urban Meyer is the best coach in the country, Tebow is a product of Florida's great coach, their great recruiting power and their decision to play him all or most of the game against crappy teams with horrible redzone defenses. Tebow, at Clemson or South Carolina or Alabama or ARKANSAS or cal or Missouri or nebraska is just another decent player on a team that doesn't have the resources or the recruiting pull that Florida has. He is a product of his environment. It may take a couple or years for you to realize it. But he is just another average QB who got a lot of looks and consideration and stat monkeys because he is at FLORIDA.

none of those guys have been an unstoppable dual threat like tebow..none of them play in the system that tebow does which is what i asked for. i didnt say name a bunch of qbs that were bust. i said name 1 in the same system that did equal to what he did.

[GatorHunter]

Leak is the all-time leader in Florida history for attempts, completions and yardage, second in TD's. Those are record setting numbers.

Tebow is 20th in the NCAA in passing yards this season. Again, my point was to mirror what you're doing. Take the worst stat you can find from the other guy and argue it proves he's not worthy. Not only that, you get the facts wrong. At least I'm taking true facts and distorting them, lol.

As I said, I didn't get the fact wrong, I plagurized it.:)

[Hawginitall]

I'll be fair... take one using his average of 138 (an average that, btw, would place him 9th). That gives him 1587, which also leaves him 9th. Look, any way you cut it, it's a great season; but, it just isn't Heisman worthy. Look at all the better seasons ahead of him that didn't win the award, INCLUDING HIS OWN LAST YEAR. He's got 78 more yards this year, and his stats are still for 12 games, while everyone else's are for 11.

1. 1,891— Herschel Walker, Georgia (385 rushes) .................................................. ..................1981
2. 1,786— Bo Jackson, Auburn (278 rushes)........................................... ..................................1985
3. 1,752— Herschel Walker, Georgia (335 rushes) .................................................. ..................1982
4. 1,686— Charles Alexander, LSU (311 rushes) .................................................. .....................1977
5. 1,647— Darren McFadden, Arkansas (284 rushes)........................................... .....................2006
6. 1,616— Herschel Walker, Georgia (274 rushes) .................................................. ..................1980
7. 1,600— Moe Williams, Kentucky (294 rushes) .................................................. .....................1995
8. 1,599— Emmitt Smith, Florida (284 rushes) .................................................. ........................1989
9. 1,567— Rudi Johnson, Auburn (324 rushes)........................................... ...............................2000
10. 1,547— Garrison Hearst, Georgia (228 rushes) .................................................. ..................1992
11. 1,471— Bobby Humphrey, Alabama (236 rushes) .................................................. ...............1986

YARDS PER GAME
SEASON:
1. 171.9— Herschel Walker, Georgia (1,891 in 11 games)............................................ ............1981
2. 162.4— Bo Jackson, Auburn (1,786 in 11 games) .................................................. ..............1985
3. 159.3— Herschel Walker, Georgia (1,752 in 11 games)............................................ ............1982
4. 153.3— Charles Alexander, LSU (1,686 in 11 games) .................................................. .........1977
5. 146.9— Herschel Walker, Georgia (1,616 in 11 games)............................................ ............1980
6. 145.5— Moe Williams, Kentucky (1,600 in 11 games)............................................ ...............1995
7. 145.4— Emmitt Smith, Florida (1,599 in 11 games) .................................................. ............1989
8. 140.6— Garrison Hearst, Georgia (1,547 in 11 games)............................................ ............1992
9. 131.2— Johnny Dottley, Ole Miss (1,312 in 10 games) .................................................. .......1949

Your stats for McFadden this season are wrong. Do the math. (Divide 1725 by 12.) And once again, you choose to ignore his receiving yards and kick returning yards, as well as his passing stats. Similar to me ignoring Tebow's great season running the ball.

Look, like I already said, if I had a vote, I'd go with Tebow. My whole point is that you're distorting stats to make McFadden look worse, and you can't even get the facts right.

[Gator2753]

To be honest with you Red Powerade...It doesn't hurt my feelings that UF's QB's don't have much success in the pros. I am much more of a NCAA fan than I am an NFL fan. Do I want our QB's to succeed in the NFL? Sure. But it has no bearing on the progression of our football program as a whole.
Florida has had some successful players in the NFL though. I need not even mention what Emmitt Smith has accomplished. Fred Taylor just passed the 10,000 yard mark last week in his career as well.

[GatorHunter]

Honestly, I love these discussions. My wife says I should've went into law instead of medicine because I love to argue. But I've said my peace...and now, some of the posters are just getting ridiculous with accusations and predicting future failure of a sophomore QB...this discussion has definitely played out.

One last thought...the reason Leak didn't have Tebow-like numbers passing the ball is because Meyer's system requires the QB to "think". The QB has to read the defense and change the play accoridingly. Even more, during the triple option plays...the QB has to read the DE and OLB...in a split second. Leak was never required to read defenses or audible plays prior to Meyer. He had a tough time with it his first year...did a little better his second year and our defense took care of the rest. Tebow is a prodigy. He reads defenses....calls the play, audibles....keeps the ball or pitches...and goes through his reads on passing plays...it's truly amazing that he's picked up this complex offense so fast...not only that, but shattered records in doing it.

[the Prodigy]

To be honest with you Red Powerade...It doesn't hurt my feelings that UF's QB's don't have much success in the pros. I am much more of a NCAA fan than I am an NFL fan. Do I want our QB's to succeed in the NFL? Sure. But it has no bearing on the progression of our football program as a whole.
Florida has had some successful players in the NFL though. I need not even mention what Emmitt Smith has accomplished. Fred Taylor just passed the 10,000 yard mark last week in his career as well.

And I'll be honest with you, I think that the best players are the ones that succeed on every level. Not the guys who can do well in High School but can't compete in the college game, or the guys who put up monster pad stats in college but obviously don't have the physical talent to compete at the next level.

The award goes to the best player, not the guy who has the best stats, regardless of how he got them. McFadden has great numbers, are they like tebow's? No, and we've all gone over the reason's why. The Fact is, he has the physicality to be a Pro, and a great one. No. 1 in the draft I've been told. He also has great numbers, he also makes everyone else on the field look smaller, slower, weaker - he defines what the best player is. He has more talent. He passes, catches, runs, and scores from anywhere. He is the best player in the nation. That is who the Heisman should go to regardless, it is a highly political award and Tebow will get it because more people want him to get it, there just aren't that many people out there who give Arkansas, or players from Arkansas the credit they deserve.

[fernandomike]

I think that this is a great discussion with a lot of good points being made on both sides. Both players are deserving in my mind. The numbers substantially favor Tebow, but there is something to be said about the "eye test" as one of the Hog fans stated. The Heisman trophy is meant to be a subjective award for the best player in the country, which of course, does not necessarily equate to the player with the best numbers.
I would have no problem with Tebow winning. In fact, I'd celebrate it. He seems like a fine young man and I like the way that he plays the game. I suspect though that he owes a good portion of his gaudy numbers to the fabulous athletes surrounding him and to a brilliant offensive system. Tebow is incredible, but so are the parts around him and in an offense with a philosophy of spreading the field horizontally as well as vertically, the defense simply has too much field to cover to contain Tebow. Tebow had a sensational season because he is a superb athlete AND because of all those super fast wideouts. I think that McFadden had a sensational season because he is Darren McFadden. His supporting cast isn't in the same class with Tebow's. His offensive line was green. His quarterback awful. The Hogs best receiver injured. The man still had a remarkable year. I do think we should try to take into account more than pure numbers. When I do that, I can't help but think that McFadden was the best player in the country this season.

[GatorChomp]

And I'll be honest with you, I think that the best players are the ones that succeed on every level. Not the guys who can do well in High School but can't compete in the college game, or the guys who put up monster pad stats in college but obviously don't have the physical talent to compete at the next level.

The award goes to the best player, not the guy who has the best stats, regardless of how he got them. McFadden has great numbers, are they like tebow's? No, and we've all gone over the reason's why. The Fact is, he has the physicality to be a Pro, and a great one. No. 1 in the draft I've been told. He also has great numbers, he also makes everyone else on the field look smaller, slower, weaker - he defines what the best player is. He has more talent. He passes, catches, runs, and scores from anywhere. He is the best player in the nation. That is who the Heisman should go to regardless, it is a highly political award and Tebow will get it because more people want him to get it, there just aren't that many people out there who give Arkansas, or players from Arkansas the credit they deserve.

Let me say this again for those of you who are slow. The Heisman is an individual award based on that single college year. It isn't based on what a player did previously and it isn't based on what the player does after that year or might do after that year.

The Heisman is for the best COLLEGE player of THAT year. The Heisman does not mean the number one pick in the draft or the player that will transition best to the NFL. Troy Smith, last year's Heisman, got drafted in the fifth round.
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Hawg, you make some decent points and debating you isn't horrible. You include some factual basis for your arguments and I respect that. I am sorry that one of the Florida fans messed up on the stats from the one post. I just want to say though, that returning stats pretty irrelevant. You can't compare leaving out his receiving and returning stats to leaving out Tebow's rushing stats. Tebow has rushed 194 times. McFadden has 47 combined returns(15), pass attempts(11, 6 of those against LSU) and receptions(21). That is a slight difference in the number and in the importance. While McFadden's returns and passes should be noted, his return yards should be pretty much ignored. McFadden is not one of the top 100 returns in college football. The 100th returner averages about 22 yards per return, McFadden averages 18.2. That is a 4 yard difference in average. To note how big a difference that is go up 4 yards from the 100th returner (26 avg) and you get to the 32nd highest returner. That is a significant difference. Whether McFadden would really about 168th returner, I don't know, but you can see that his stats are well below average for a returner.

Red powerade, all of your arguments are horrible. You obviously do not know what the Heisman really is because you just give information that is irrelevent. You still have not offered up anything to say McFadden deserves it more than Tebow other than "if you watch McFadden is just better than Tebow" or "McFadden is a great athlete and the best player, he should win the Heisman" or "McFadden doesn't get any credit because he is from Arkansas and Tebow is popular so he will get it". These are all opinions and subjective. Please, if you want to argue your case for McFadden then do, I love debating. Just please use factual information rather than your biased opinions to try to make your case for McFadden. Otherwise, I, and everyone else on the board, just looks at you like a biased Arkansas fan who has no real basis for believing McFadden should win the Heisman other than the fact that he is on your team.

[iacolb12]

I sometimes think the whole Heisman winner gone thump in the NFL is the old reality check. ALL players get that slap in the face to a point. But I sometimes think many highly touted players rely so much on physical ability while a man-among-boys in college, they don't have the "it" factor you need in the pros.

On the other end was Ron Dayne. He looked like a guy that should translate to the NFL. Yeah, he wasn't going to go for 60 on a given play, but the Bus worked pretty well for Pittsburgh. Dayne stinks on ice.

I'll use an Arkansas player as the opposing view. Clint Stoerner. Not much of a physical specimen, but he had the "it" factor. He had the knack for winning games. He even showed it a little in the NFL. But he physical ability is what killed his career.

Notice I don't mention Heisman QBs? Product-of-a-system is true in the NCAA for QBs. Not in the NFL where you face defenders as fast as your receivers. If that were true everyone would run the West Coast. Most Heisman and psycho numbers QBs are propped up by systems and genetic freaks catching the ball.

On this year's Heisman. Is it just numbers alone? Game performance? Quality of opponents? Wow factor? You'll have to ask the guys that vote. This year you could split the trophy in half and probably keep everyone happy.

Note: I started typing this before fernandomike posted. So we are on the same wavelength!

[GatorBait15]

Let me say this again for those of you who are slow. The Heisman is an individual award based on that single college year. It isn't based on what a player did previously and it isn't based on what the player does after that year or might do after that year.

The Heisman is for the best COLLEGE player of THAT year. The Heisman does not mean the number one pick in the draft or the player that will transition best to the NFL. Troy Smith, last year's Heisman, got drafted in the fifth round.
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Hawg, you make some decent points and debating you isn't horrible. You include some factual basis for your arguments and I respect that. I am sorry that one of the Florida fans messed up on the stats from the one post. I just want to say though, that returning stats pretty irrelevant. You can't compare leaving out his receiving and returning stats to leaving out Tebow's rushing stats. Tebow has rushed 194 times. McFadden has 47 combined returns(15), pass attempts(11, 6 of those against LSU) and receptions(21). That is a slight difference in the number and in the importance. While McFadden's returns and passes should be noted, his return yards should be pretty much ignored. McFadden is not one of the top 100 returns in college football. The 100th returner averages about 22 yards per return, McFadden averages 18.2. That is a 4 yard difference in average. To note how big a difference that is go up 4 yards from the 100th returner (26 avg) and you get to the 32nd highest returner. That is a significant difference. Whether McFadden would really about 168th returner, I don't know, but you can see that his stats are well below average for a returner.

Red powerade, all of your arguments are horrible. You obviously do not know what the Heisman really is because you just give information that is irrelevent. You still have not offered up anything to say McFadden deserves it more than Tebow other than "if you watch McFadden is just better than Tebow" or "McFadden is a great athlete and the best player, he should win the Heisman" or "McFadden doesn't get any credit because he is from Arkansas and Tebow is popular so he will get it". These are all opinions and subjective. Please, if you want to argue your case for McFadden then do, I love debating. Just please use factual information rather than your biased opinions to try to make your case for McFadden. Otherwise, I, and everyone else on the board, just looks at you like a biased Arkansas fan who has no real basis for believing McFadden should win the Heisman other than the fact that he is on your team.

sig update son put 2 more doubyas up

[the Prodigy]

Let me say this again for those of you who are slow. The Heisman is an individual award based on that single college year. It isn't based on what a player did previously and it isn't based on what the player does after that year or might do after that year.

The Heisman is for the best COLLEGE player of THAT year. The Heisman does not mean the number one pick in the draft or the player that will transition best to the NFL. Troy Smith, last year's Heisman, got drafted in the fifth round.
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Hawg, you make some decent points and debating you isn't horrible. You include some factual basis for your arguments and I respect that. I am sorry that one of the Florida fans messed up on the stats from the one post. I just want to say though, that returning stats pretty irrelevant. You can't compare leaving out his receiving and returning stats to leaving out Tebow's rushing stats. Tebow has rushed 194 times. McFadden has 47 combined returns(15), pass attempts(11, 6 of those against LSU) and receptions(21). That is a slight difference in the number and in the importance. While McFadden's returns and passes should be noted, his return yards should be pretty much ignored. McFadden is not one of the top 100 returns in college football. The 100th returner averages about 22 yards per return, McFadden averages 18.2. That is a 4 yard difference in average. To note how big a difference that is go up 4 yards from the 100th returner (26 avg) and you get to the 32nd highest returner. That is a significant difference. Whether McFadden would really about 168th returner, I don't know, but you can see that his stats are well below average for a returner.

Red powerade, all of your arguments are horrible. You obviously do not know what the Heisman really is because you just give information that is irrelevent. You still have not offered up anything to say McFadden deserves it more than Tebow other than "if you watch McFadden is just better than Tebow" or "McFadden is a great athlete and the best player, he should win the Heisman" or "McFadden doesn't get any credit because he is from Arkansas and Tebow is popular so he will get it". These are all opinions and subjective. Please, if you want to argue your case for McFadden then do, I love debating. Just please use factual information rather than your biased opinions to try to make your case for McFadden. Otherwise, I, and everyone else on the board, just looks at you like a biased Arkansas fan who has no real basis for believing McFadden should win the Heisman other than the fact that he is on your team.

And McFadden is still better than Tebow considering all that, take what the Tennessee guy said to heart.

[the Prodigy]

My arguments are based on what I know. I know Tebow as better numbers. I also know that Tebow is on a better team, with a better coach, and I also know that McFadden's performances are what they had to be. I tell you to do the "eye test" because that is what you need to do. I'm going to look up a bunch of stats because I don't have time to do that. What I am going to do is tell you to do what I have already done. Watch the games, the film. Football isn't a game of numbers like baseball. You watch the games and you can just tell that McFadden is better. I know that seems stupid to you because it completely destroys your reasoning. You don't know how to think the way a Football player does. Football players don't sit around and look at stat pages for hours trying to figure out how many times this guy ran to the left or to the right or how many TD passes he threw from what part of the field. They watch TAPE, they watch the games. A football player or a coach if faced with the choice, to go over a kids stats, or to watch game film, they'd choose the film everytime, becuase it tells them more about a player.

Start thinking like a football player or a football coach. You do that, and you will understand why Darren McFadden deserves the Heisman over Tim Tebow.

[oxfordreb]

Why can't we all just admit that Tebow is the best player in the country and should get the Heisman? His numbers speak for themselves, they are much more impressive than DMC's. Let's all agree and just end this, sheesh...

[GatorHunter]

My arguments are based on what I know. I know Tebow as better numbers. I also know that Tebow is on a better team, with a better coach, and I also know that McFadden's performances are what they had to be. I tell you to do the "eye test" because that is what you need to do. I'm going to look up a bunch of stats because I don't have time to do that. What I am going to do is tell you to do what I have already done. Watch the games, the film. Football isn't a game of numbers like baseball. You watch the games and you can just tell that McFadden is better. I know that seems stupid to you because it completely destroys your reasoning. You don't know how to think the way a Football player does. Football players don't sit around and look at stat pages for hours trying to figure out how many times this guy ran to the left or to the right or how many TD passes he threw from what part of the field. They watch TAPE, they watch the games. A football player or a coach if faced with the choice, to go over a kids stats, or to watch game film, they'd choose the film everytime, becuase it tells them more about a player.

Start thinking like a football player or a football coach. You do that, and you will understand why Darren McFadden deserves the Heisman over Tim Tebow.

I played football for 10 years...HS was very competitive and I played against several Div 1 guys who were successful in the NFL(also won a State Championship in '88)...saw many great RBs...Neal Anderson was one...Amp Lee...Tony Davis....Lee Wesley. But I never, not once saw a QB with the "it" factor like Tebow. McFadden has it too...and if McFadden were playing for a better team, we might not be having this discussion because he would likely have broke the NCAA record for rushing. But he didn't. He's got potential...I think that's what RP is so hung up on. But potential don't win you trophies or championships.