Who's to blame?

[oxfordreb]

That is a deep question that runs deep within the Rebel nation. And no, I'm not talking about the current status of the Ole Miss football program. I'm asking you and myself who is to blame for loosing what should have been and what should be one of the SEC's premier football programs.

If you look at all the great teams of the SEC, the LSU's, the Florida's, the Georgia's, etc., you see teams that are successful now b/c of the solid foundation that the forefather's of the nation's elite teams laid years ago. Look at Tennessee, 5 national championships before 1970. Look at Bama, you have to take your shoes off just to have enough digits to count their national championships, which came mostly years ago, but they had that great foundation also. These are just a couple of examples, but the point is, these teams are still thriving today, and will always be mentioned as the nations best teams because of the tradition of pride and excellance that they still carry on today from years past.

Now, I'm just wondering where Ole Miss went wrong. Why weren't we able to carry on the pride and prestige as these others were? We have the history just as everyone else does: 3 national championships before 1970, one of the greatest SEC coaches ever in John Vaught, past SEC and division titles, etc. We had everything back then that the others had, but somehow, we dropped the ball when everyone else held on and ran with it. It really hurts to have someone pour a great, strong floor but have the rest of the house built of cheap, faulty materials.

In my opinion, someone failed to make sure that the great legacy that was built years past continued, and when no one cares enough to continue a legacy even as great as what we had long ago, it will eventually rot and die. And I'm afraid that's happened to Ole Miss. While you other guys are growing, we are stuck in last place, with nothing but a photoalbum of great days gone by. Did we as the fans destroy what we had? Did an administration at some point in time make enough bad decisions to doom us? Was it a combination of bad years that just did us in?

Who knows, you could point you finger at any number of things and it could be correct. But one thing is for sure: we had an opportunity to be one of the upper echelon teams in the nation, and at some point in time, that opportunity was destroyed. Now, instead of playing for national championships every year, we are hoping for 6 win seasons. It's a really sad thought if you dwell on it enough, but all we can do now is hope that history repeats itself and that we can one day call ourselves champions again.

[Jay1]

Ole Miss football history is Johnny Vaught. We never won an SEC championship (or national) before he came, and have not won one since.

The last SEC championship was 1963, record 7-0-2. Vaught won six SEC championships and three national championships.

Vaught was the success part (the ONLY part) of Ole Miss football. He made it work. After him we had decent teams most of the time, Steve Sloan and Orgeron excepted.

Our greatest years ended in 1963. When one way football came in and it took twice as many players as it did in 1963, things changed.

Vaught was a master at getting 15-20 fine football players who could play both ways. When the change to one way football began in 1964 we went 5-4-1. In one year it went from needing 15-20 good players to needing 30-40 good players. After 1963 he had good teams and we were able to compete with the best, but we were no longer the best. After he left we dropped another notch.

We could recruit and support great teams using the system of the times, two way football. Our teams were never the same after the move to one way football. Bigger schools with much bigger budgets came to the front. We were not able or unwilling to meet the greater needs of winning football.

If we are to win as did Vaught we have to spend twice as much for recruiting and we have to find another Johnny Vaught. I doubt either will happen. We were damn lucky to have found one great coach.

Tuberville left saying we were satisfied to win 6-7 games and go to the Independence Bowl. He went where there was more money for recruiting and and a willingness to do whatever is necessary to win and win big.

As has been shown. Ole Miss is willing to accept 5-7 wins per season and is unwilling to spend enough or require excellence from coaches. We hire what Bama or LSU would not even consider.

Would Alabama allow a coach to lose 4-5 years in a row?
Would Florida accept it?
Would LSU?
Arkansas?
Georgia?
Auburn?

But we will, and that is the Difference. They expect the best and require it, no exceptions.

We are willing to settle for less, and that's what we get. We may well return, at some point, under some coach, to the middle of the SEC, our old home.

Can the Vaught days return? maybe, but highly unlikely. Those days have been gone for more than a third of a century. We are not willing to demand excellence or spend enough. We only had this excellence one time in all our history. Perhaps that was the exception to the rule and not today. Maybe we are just where we belong. Two more years of failure will likely settle the matter for many years.

If you want to be the best you have to commit to that, Vaught did, no one else has.

[msgadawg]

I think though what happened, When Vaught retired the first time, Rather that go out and search for the right coach. Or Keep Bob Tyler who was an absolute understudy of Johnny Vaught, They hired within the Ole Miss Family and it did not work, That is why JV came back out of retirement to try to resurect. OM was at a point they could have gotten any good coach in the country because people wanted the opportunity to coach aginst the best year in and year out and that was the Bear.. But we all like to be homers and hire from within,, Just looking from the outside in.....

[SaveCol.Reb]

Jay 1 has it right. We are a fan base that, as a whole, is content with middle of the road. As a fan base and a school we need to let people know that we want to win EVERY game, and that there are no moral victories. I love the party in the grove before and after the game, but that should not be the focus of the Ole Miss game day experience. The focus should be football. We need a smart coach and an administration that makes football a priority. A coach that doesn't think it's enough to win 6 games, but 10. A coach that can inspire a team, even if less talented than their opponents.

I am more optimistic about the situation though than oxfordreb. I think we can eventually get back to a competitive level. Ole Miss and MSU are the hardest jobs in the SEC but that does not mean impossible. We are in the SEC for a reason. It won't happen over night, but we need to let everyone know that we expect nothing short of excellence.

[oxfordreb]

Jay 1 has it right. We are a fan base that, as a whole, is content with middle of the road. As a fan base and a school we need to let people know that we want to win EVERY game, and that there are no moral victories. I love the party in the grove before and after the game, but that should not be the focus of the Ole Miss game day experience. The focus should be football. We need a smart coach and an administration that makes football a priority. A coach that doesn't think it's enough to win 6 games, but 10. A coach that can inspire a team, even if less talented than their opponents.

I am more optimistic about the situation though than oxfordreb. I think we can eventually get back to a competitive level. Ole Miss and MSU are the hardest jobs in the SEC but that does not mean impossible. We are in the SEC for a reason. It won't happen over night, but we need to let everyone know that we expect nothing short of excellence.

Yes, we can be competitive, but we are not competitive on a consistent basis. Every 5-8 years, we put together a team that will have winning seasons and be somewhat successful, but rarely have those teams that go on to win 9-10 games in a season. Our idea of success is like you said, it's mediocre, we settle for less like 7 and 8 wins every now and then, but we don't DEMAND great winning seasons year in and year out. Look at Bama, they fired Shula after having a previous 10 win season just b/c they didn't like the direction they thought he was going. We need to get to a point where we win 8 games consistently and then build up our fan base and alumni to expect to win no less than that, and if someone doesn't get the job done, they need to be canned. It all starts with a mindset of perfection, and not settling for anything less. To get us back to that point will take a long time, if it ever reaches that point.

[Jay1]

Jay 1 has it right. We are a fan base that, as a whole, is content with middle of the road. As a fan base and a school we need to let people know that we want to win EVERY game, and that there are no moral victories. I love the party in the grove before and after the game, but that should not be the focus of the Ole Miss game day experience. The focus should be football. We need a smart coach and an administration that makes football a priority. A coach that doesn't think it's enough to win 6 games, but 10. A coach that can inspire a team, even if less talented than their opponents.

I am more optimistic about the situation though than oxfordreb. I think we can eventually get back to a competitive level. Ole Miss and MSU are the hardest jobs in the SEC but that does not mean impossible. We are in the SEC for a reason. It won't happen over night, but we need to let everyone know that we expect nothing short of excellence.

I agree that it is possible. Vaught never had as much as Alabama, but he was closer than now, as to funding.

It would require one thing and one thing only to make Ole Miss back into one of the better programs in the SEC. A 100% commitment to winning. That means hiring a good coach, NO MATTER the cost. Florida spends twice as much on recruiting as does Ole Miss. That gap would have to be closed substantially.

Georgia recruited 49 four star recruits and five five star recruits in the past four years. Ole Miss recruited 19 four star recruits and three five star recruits during the same period. Plus Georgia has the better coaching staff and a tradition of winning we have lost. This year (2008 class) Georgia has 12 four star recruits and three five stars recruits. Ole Miss has four four star recruits and no five star recruits. Rivals.com

We need better coaching and more talent which will require much more money put into the program and a lot better decisions by the leadership. Will we pay it? Are we capable of smart decisions? If we want to win like Vaught did we will, if not, we won't. My guess, we do just enough to try and return to 7-5 and the Independence Bowl.

There is not one team in the SEC willing to let us win cheaply. Every single team is willing to do a lot to win. We will have to do more than most of them are willing to do in order to move up the ladder. We have to work more hours, work smarter, spend more money than them, and of course, get it right.

And of course, SaveCol.Reb, as you have said, we as fans have to demand excellence in all phases of the football program. We can't shop at Sam's any longer if we want to "Return to Glory." We have to do more than them, every year--year after year.

[NiKka]

this is year 3...

[Rebel Dave]

bottom line, the fans are to blame for not demanding better over the years and keeping our collective heads up our rears and believing everything that was fed to us by the administration.

I remember this guy on Rivals when Orgeron was hired and Mazzone was named the OC. He kept claiming that Mazzone was the "best oc in the country". 90% of the Ole Miss fans believe falsely that just because it's at Ole Miss, it's the best. When it gets on campus, it's the best. Just ain't true.

He and I got into some very heated arguments over Mazzone. As the season progressed, he conceded whole heartedly.

[Jay1]

100% right!!

We accepted doing just enough to not be ashamed, and now not even that is left to us. When you aim to be the best and fall short, you have still done pretty well, but when you aim for second best and fall short, you are us.

The powers that be will try to give us what we demand of them, no more.

[Rebel Chuck]

I still believe that Coach O is going to bring the type of success y'all are talking about

[Rebel Chuck]

I blame all of the negative ass rebel fans who only come to support when the team is winning. Those fans need to take a lesson from some South Carolina fans. I'm not saying it is any of y'all, but those fans piss me off beyond belief and I am very ashamed that they wear the Red and Blue.

[gatorunvrsty]

I still believe that Coach O is going to bring the type of success y'all are talking about

IMHO, Orgeron will get your program nowhere. Think about it: Ole Miss has the kind of players to be at least middle of the road. Only the coach is holding y'all back; and the AD who insists on keeping a friend who isn't making the grade. Here's y'all's classes over the last few years, compared to the rest of us.:

2007

Rk. School Commits Conf. Points Top100

1. Florida 27 SEC 5504 12
4. Tennessee 32 SEC 4312 6
5. LSU 25 SEC 4212 7
6. Auburn 30 SEC 3770 3
7. South Carolina 31 SEC 3464 2
17. Georgia 23 SEC 2791 1
22. Alabama 24 SEC 2619 1
27. Mississippi State 34 SEC 2268 1
31. Mississippi 22 SEC 1985 1
34. Arkansas 27 SEC 1956 0
58. Kentucky 27 SEC 1052 0
87. Vanderbilt 14 SEC 639 0 0 0 5 8 6 0 14 0 2.36 87.

2006

Rk. School Commits Conf. Points Top100

2. Florida 27 SEC 2837 7
4. Georgia 27 SEC 2540 7
t7. LSU 25 SEC 2046 4
t9. Auburn 25 SEC 1979 2
15. Mississippi 30 SEC 1715 2
18. Alabama 23 SEC 1568 1
24. Tennessee 21 SEC 1314 1
30. Arkansas 26 SEC 979 2
33. South Carolina 24 SEC 909 0
34. Kentucky 30 SEC 900 1
39. Mississippi State 24 SEC 807 0
61. Vanderbilt 26 SEC 452 0

2005

Rk. School Commits Conf. Points Top100

1. Tennessee 27 SEC 2511 7
4. Georgia 19 SEC 2168 5
11. Florida 18 SEC 1756 2
16. Alabama 30 SEC 1557 0
19. LSU 13 SEC 1423 3
20. South Carolina 28 SEC 1318 3
22. Auburn 21 SEC 1255 1
29. Mississippi 28 SEC 1008 2
32. Arkansas 24 SEC 954 1
39. Mississippi State 28 SEC 863 1
62. Kentucky 26 SEC 395 0
76. Vanderbilt 25 SEC 305 0

I look at that, and see there is absolutely no reason for Ole Miss to be at the bottom of the conference. The guys you have starting now are better than the guys starting for 5 or 6 other SEC teams. And, you can't say that maybe your players haven't progressed like the players for the other teams, and that's the reason; because that's also, ultimately, the coach's responsibility. Make no mistake about it... it's the coach.

[Rebel Chuck]

I don't give up on a coach after 3 years. Not in this conference

[oxfordreb]

I don't give up on a coach after 3 years. Not in this conference

How long will you support him?
People like to compare Coach Croom and CO by saying that CC was there for 4 years before finally getting a winning season. CC is a great coach that is finally getting his dawgs into shape. Yes, it took a while, but he showed obvious signs of improvement in his team as far as mentallity is concerned. He had many losses, but within those losses, he managed to bring his team together on two different occasions and beat 2 great teams: Florida and Bama. He has shown the ability to motivate his team to win amongst losing seasons, and had 2 "signature" wins before finally getting this great season he's having now.

What's the biggest game Coach O has won? Hmm, it's a toss up between a not so great at the time South Carolina team, or an Egg Bowl win. Our great coach was quoted in the preseason as actually saying that this Ole Miss team could go bowling! Can you believe that crap! He had a walk on QB, a mediocre starting running back, a highly overrated offensive line, and a young, weak secondary and LB corp. He knew all of this and still had the gall to tell the fans and alumni that, just to get our hopes up, knowing that he probably couldn't deliever. But hey, it got the haters off his back for a while. That's not cool or honest, I don't care how you spin it, he lied to us knowingly. He said that stuff praying and hoping it might come true. Real coaches don't have to puff up their team, they let the fans decide for themselves. Coach O is pathetic. Honestly, how many more "moral victories" are you gonna endure before you see what this joke of a coach truly is?

[gatorunvrsty]

I don't give up on a coach after 3 years. Not in this conference

Thankfully, UF does. We got rid of Zook after 3 years of losing 5 games a year, and look what happened. Same with the teams mentioned at the beginning of this thread... UGA, Bama, etc.. That may be what the initial post was inferring. Sticking with guys that aren't getting it done, for too long, isn't what the successful programs do.

[Rebel Chuck]

If we don't make it to a bowl game next year then I will be ready to move on. All this BS you negative Ole Miss fans are saying is only hurting the program you "love", but you are welcome to be any type of fan you want to be.

[oxfordreb]

I refuse to be positive about 3 losing seasons and having a coach that is good for nothing but recruiting, which doesn't matter anyways b/c he can't coach them when he gets them here. I'm sick of seeing a portion of my wife and I's hard earned $4000/semester cash go to support a lunatic Cajun that would rather rip his shirt off and bounce around like a crazed gorilla instead of acting and coaching like a coach that has any dignity and class should!

[SaveCol.Reb]

Make no mistake rebel chuck, I support the rebs no matter what. I'm at every game and I stay all four quarters. The game attendance and attitude of most of the fans also pisses me off. That kind of crap doesn't fly at other SEC schools even if they are losing.

BUT...bottom line is, the coaching situation is a bad situation. You want to give him one more year, and it looks like you'll get your wish. O has talent on his team. On paper we should be at least middle of the road and we aren't. Why not? If you can give me one reason other than poor coaching I'm all ears. We need a coach and a fan base and an adminsitration that is committed to winning.

[Rebel Chuck]

Make no mistake rebel chuck, I support the rebs no matter what. I'm at every game and I stay all four quarters. The game attendance and attitude of most of the fans also pisses me off. That kind of crap doesn't fly at other SEC schools even if they are losing.

BUT...bottom line is, the coaching situation is a bad situation. You want to give him one more year, and it looks like you'll get your wish. O has talent on his team. On paper we should be at least middle of the road and we aren't. Why not? If you can give me one reason other than poor coaching I'm all ears. We need a coach and a fan base and an adminsitration that is committed to winning.
The reason is poor coaching. Coach O is having to learn how to be a head coach. I would love to see him progress a little faster than he has, but we have made this bed and I am going to support him. If we had hired a previous head coach things would probably be better, but we didn't. I believe that these last two years he has learned alot and matured as a coach. It may not show on paper but it will. Like I said if he cannot get over the hump next year; I will lead the charge. Until then I would just hope we can stay positive and make sure that we are doing our part. Rebel fans who spread negativity are part of the problem; not the solution.

[Jay1]

We are not a training camp for lost coaches. We are a school that claims to want to be in the fight for SEC championships. "O" can get his tears and sympathy elsewhere as far as I'm concerned.

If it is necessary to pamper incompetence in order to be a Rebel fan, I fear the number of Rebels will be shrinking drastically.

Disloyal fans are causing Orgeron to lose? what nonsense. It is his own incompetence that is causing the losing, nothing else.

[gatorunvrsty]

We are not a training camp for lost coaches. We are a school that claims to want to be in the fight for SEC championships. "O" can get his tears and sympathy elsewhere as far as I'm concerned.

If it is necessary to pamper incompetence in order to be a Rebel fan, I fear the number of Rebels will be shrinking drastically.

Disloyal fans are causing Orgeron to lose? what nonsense. It is his own incompetence that is causing the losing, nothing else.

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. If you look around our conference, the great coaches you see didn't get their feet wet at major schools with proud traditions of winning, and NC trophies adorning their halls. Here's a few:

Steve Spurrier: Started at perennial doormat, Duke. By his 3rd year, they were ACC Champs.

Urban Meyer: Started at perennial doormat, Bowling Green, and made them a team that won their conference the year after he left. Then, he went to perennial doormat, Utah, and made them conference champs in an undefeated season by his second year.

Nick Saban: Made Toledo a 9-2 team. Then, had Michigan State at 10-2 in his last year.

Now, Richt has something in common with Orgeron, in that they were both assistants at successful programs before taking over as HC's for the first time. The difference is that Richt has always been considered a great offensive mind, and he came to a school with more recent success, and a willingness to spend some money on a coach. But, Ole Miss has a history of doing this type of thing. Tuberville was a first-time HC when he was at Oxford, and he just used it as a stepping stone... and not in very classy fashion, I might add. I don't know... it just doesn't seem like the administration is devoted to athletics. There are countless coaches available every year that have already proven themselves; but you can't go coach shopping in this day and age with a pocket full of coupons.

[Chinaski]

I absolutely agree with Gatorunversty and Jay. I have to add one more thing though. We lack the proper state of mind. Our players have given up on the idea that once you enter the field you gotta go to win, regardless of who your opponent is or how many games you have lost already. This easy going and lazy attitude is now a part of the mentality of this organization. But you know what? Even this lack of the right attitude can be fixed with the right coach in charge. I dont know how but we managed to get some good and talented guys to commit to this program but you cant expect the most talented guy on earth to come in and be successfull without giving them a good coach to make them get better and improve or to get them back on the right track when they get off of it.

[spiro]

Vaught was before intergration. There was not much of a problem for fans to wave their confederate battle flags at the games, or for the giant flag that covered half the football field to be displayed at pre-game and halftime shows. But Vaught new that this would be a future problem for the university. Vaught recruited and signed the cream of the crop from within the state of Mississippi. Then of coarse Vaught had to quit because of his heart problems, Kinard had one good year and the collapse of Ole Miss football began. Intergration for SEC football teams was beginning and other teams were using Ole Miss' racial riots of '62, the confederate flag, and what ever else they could think of to lure black players away from Ole Miss to their schools, like giving them a lesson on the origins of the nickname used by the University of Mississippi, Ole Miss. The "Ole Miss" was the plantation owner's wife and is what slaves called her. All of this negative stuff worked very well. Ole Miss suffered because of it. And this, in a nutshell, is what happened to Ole Miss football. Call me crazy if you want, but I don't think I am. Getting rid of the confederate flag, Col. Reb, and every other racist symbol is the right thing to do. Get rid of the two nicknames Ole Miss and Rebels too. Have a contest to come up with a new nickname. Then maybe The University of Mississippi can hire a top notch coach and keep him around for awhile.

[oxfordreb]

Vaught was before intergration. There was not much of a problem for fans to wave their confederate battle flags at the games, or for the giant flag that covered half the football field to be displayed at pre-game and halftime shows. But Vaught new that this would be a future problem for the university. Vaught recruited and signed the cream of the crop from within the state of Mississippi. Then of coarse Vaught had to quit because of his heart problems, Kinard had one good year and the collapse of Ole Miss football began. Intergration for SEC football teams was beginning and other teams were using Ole Miss' racial riots of '62, the confederate flag, and what ever else they could think of to lure black players away from Ole Miss to their schools, like giving them a lesson on the origins of the nickname used by the University of Mississippi, Ole Miss. The "Ole Miss" was the plantation owner's wife and is what slaves called her. All of this negative stuff worked very well. Ole Miss suffered because of it. And this, in a nutshell, is what happened to Ole Miss football. Call me crazy if you want, but I don't think I am. Getting rid of the confederate flag, Col. Reb, and every other racist symbol is the right thing to do. Get rid of the two nicknames Ole Miss and Rebels too. Have a contest to come up with a new nickname. Then maybe The University of Mississippi can hire a top notch coach and keep him around for awhile.


Yeah, you are crazy. You wanna get rid of everything that IS Ole Miss? I kinda see your point, but you are pretty much wiping the slate clean of Ole Miss and are creating a totally new university. I for one do not like the idea, I would rather continue to try to improve UM's image instead of giving up on it altogether. Col. Reb is not a racist symbol, and neither is the name Rebels or Ole Miss. I have attended Ole Miss for a while now and have never heard your "slave owners wife" rendition of the how the name came about. I think you need to reevaluate your dedication to the school and see if you shouldn't be pulling for another team.

[Jay1]

I don't see how we deny who we were and who we are. Maybe it's better to polish the rough edges without throwing out the silver tray that history has passed on to us. Good or bad we are who we are.

Maybe we would be better off to recruit people who will fit in at Ole Miss better rather than change Ole Miss too much to make it fit them. Orgeron and his Miami / Southern California bad boy stuff will blow away in due course, like dust in the wind, and we will get on to a more settled and dignified method rather than this madness. For now we should just keep a settled pattern to Ole Miss and when Khayat retires and Boone goes back to banking and Orgeron on to the next defensive line coaching position, then, we can get back to being Ole Miss and deciding where we need to go. Changing for the single purpose of making it easier for Orgeron to recruit more troubled athletes seems to be pointless. He can't even win with them so why cater to them. At least Miami managed to win with their problems. We get the problems and don't enjoy the victories. No, my suggestion would be to wait it out and see where things go before we burn our bridges.

[spiro]

Yeah, you are crazy. You wanna get rid of everything that IS Ole Miss? I kinda see your point, but you are pretty much wiping the slate clean of Ole Miss and are creating a totally new university. I for one do not like the idea, I would rather continue to try to improve UM's image instead of giving up on it altogether. Col. Reb is not a racist symbol, and neither is the name Rebels or Ole Miss. I have attended Ole Miss for a while now and have never heard your "slave owners wife" rendition of the how the name came about. I think you need to reevaluate your dedication to the school and see if you shouldn't be pulling for another team.

I have a football program from a game I attended back in 1970. In the program there is a tidbit of information on how the name Ole Miss came about. I still have the program, it's stored away. I am going to find it and I will give you the exact text. But for now I will paraphrase and tell you from memory that it says there was a contest held in the late 1800's to give the yearbook a nickname. Ole Miss was chosen, this was a name used by the slaves of a plantation to address the mistress of the plantation. That is how the nickname came about, it had nothing to do with Old Mississippi.....nothing. As far as Col. Reb and the name Rebels not being racist I must disagree. Col. Reb is the plantation owner, known to the slaves as the Ole Massah. And the Rebels were members of the Confederate Army who rebelled against the Union to fight for the right to own slaves. As far as my dedication to the school.......my reason for wanting change is because I love The University of Mississippi. Perhaps you need to reevaluate your own dedication to the school that you have attended for awhile.

[Rebel Chuck]

I have a football program from a game I attended back in 1970. In the program there is a tidbit of information on how the name Ole Miss came about. I still have the program, it's stored away. I am going to find it and I will give you the exact text. But for now I will paraphrase and tell you from memory that it says there was a contest held in the late 1800's to give the yearbook a nickname. Ole Miss was chosen, this was a name used by the slaves of a plantation to address the mistress of the plantation. That is how the nickname came about, it had nothing to do with Old Mississippi.....nothing. As far as Col. Reb and the name Rebels not being racist I must disagree. Col. Reb is the plantation owner, known to the slaves as the Ole Massah. And the Rebels were members of the Confederate Army who rebelled against the Union to fight for the right to own slaves. As far as my dedication to the school.......my reason for wanting change is because I love The University of Mississippi. Perhaps you need to reevaluate your own dedication to the school that you have attended for awhile.
Spiro, get this damn garbage out of here. Even if it is true it has LONG been forgotten. Ask any African American student at Ole Miss about how they are treated. Racism is dead at The University of Mississippi. The only thing that makes people believe it is not is when the past is brought up.

[gatorunvrsty]

I can find plenty of references to the name, and its history; but not a single one that says it has anything to do with the mistress of the house of a plantation owner.

Daily Mississippian (http://www.thedmonline.com/theolemiss/)
Traditions - OleMissSports.com—Official Web Site of University of Mississippi Athletics (http://www.olemisssports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=87067&SPID=737&DB_OEM_ID=2600&KEY=&ATCLID=541582)

Sounds pretty far-fetched to me; and much more like propaganda than fact. It seems far more likely that it's the affectionate term for Old Mississippi that it's purported to be in everything I can find on the subject. Claiming it was a racist reference may have just been someone's idea or way of publicizing the civil rights movement back in the '60's and '70's.

[Jay1]

I can find plenty of references to the name, and its history; but not a single one that says it has anything to do with the mistress of the house of a plantation owner.

Daily Mississippian (http://www.thedmonline.com/theolemiss/)
Traditions - OleMissSports.com—Official Web Site of University of Mississippi Athletics (http://www.olemisssports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=87067&SPID=737&DB_OEM_ID=2600&KEY=&ATCLID=541582)

Sounds pretty far-fetched to me; and much more like propaganda than fact. It seems far more likely that it's the affectionate term for Old Mississippi that it's purported to be in everything I can find on the subject. Claiming it was a racist reference may have just been someone's idea or way of publicizing the civil rights movement back in the '60's and '70's.

This is the story I always heard. It has no deep hidden meaning or anything that I am aware of. The term Rebels may pass on someday, but, I can't ever see Ole Miss going away. It's who we are.

[spiro]

Susan Glisson represents "Ole Miss," less known as the University of Mississippi. The Ole Miss, here, does not mean "Old Mississippi." Rather, this endearing term stands for the wife of the "Ole Massah" on a plantation. This is exactly why this nickname was chosen (and can be traced historically).

I did not get my information from this article I found, this is just a piece of that article. I got my information from a Ole Miss football program in 1970. The Daily Mississippian, and the official Ole Miss site are not going to give the true origins of the term Ole Miss. And Rebel Chuck if the racist past of The University of Mississippi bothers you I'm sorry. And yes I do believe UM is doing everything possible to shake their past. But as Duece McAllister said, when you think about Ole Miss it's hard not to think of what went on in the past.

The original question to this topic was who is to blame for losing what should be one of the premier football programs in America. I stated my opinion as to how I thought it may have happened.

[shk999]

This is just my opinion, FWIW.

It all starts with the fans, if you are willing to settle for second best, thats what people will give you. If you demand success and do whatever it takes to get the admin's attention, thats what you will get, one way or another.

Also, Money makes the world go 'round. You have to be willing to spend the bank on recruiting, facilities, and last but not least......

Coaching. Coach O might make you guys a better than average team and put together some winning seasons but I dont think he can deliver the kind of success you guys want and deserve. Im not saying he is a bad coach, but if you are talking excellence, you have to have a higher calibur coach, a Bobby Petrino, Pete Carrol, Saban, Urban, Stoops etc. which all comes back to money.

Bottom line, You (the fans) have got to make it known that you will not settle for 6 win seasons or less any longer, force the School to spend more money and go steal somebody else's coach, even if he is an "up and commer". Maybe somebody like Leavitt who has had success at a smaller school, or Mike Leach or Greg Schiano.

Just my 2 cents, I really do hope you guys can get things turned around down there though.

[Jay1]

We have made enough changes. If people don't want to play football here, so be it. There are plenty of decent student-athletes who would, if properly recruited.

As shk999 just said we will get what we will settle for. If we will sit quietly by and allow more assistant line coaches, that's what we will get. As long as we are ready to pack 60,000 people into the stadium and buy the overpriced dogs and drinks, the administration will try to give us 6-7 wins and the Independence Bowl.

We may not be able to win the SEC or a National Championship again, but we damn sure won't do it if we don't give it our best shot. And what is happening in Oxford today sure isn't the best we are capable of.

There is not a serious major college football program in America that would settle for four straight losing seasons, none.

[SaveCol.Reb]

shk999 hit the nail on the head.

it has nothing to do with the terms rebels or ole miss. It has everything to do with what the fans are willing to settle for. If we want excellence...demand it!

[bbqit]

shk999 hit the nail on the head.

it has nothing to do with the terms rebels or ole miss. It has everything to do with what the fans are willing to settle for. If we want excellence...demand it!

From what I see the fans do demand it. They just ain't gettin it. As bad as this year has been this has been the first year in four years that we had enough offense to keep me from wanting to quick kick on first down. The defense had moments but when it was third and long (or third and anything but talking about third and over ten which includes third and fifty) we couldn't hold them from getting the first down with a steel cable tied to their butts.