Question for Yanks Fans... [Archive]

OmahaBound

10-07-2007, 02:00 PM

First let's make this clear. I'm a football fan first and a Gamecocks fan second, and that is why you don't see me talking much trash on this site. The same holds true for baseball (fan of the sport first...Red Sox fan second). Therefore I don't mean this is a flame or a "kick them while their down" moment. I'm legitimately interested in your thoughts on the matters at hand.

1. Reports are coming out today that if they Yanks don't make it to the ALCS, the Boss has every intent on firing Torre. Do you guys agree with that philosophy? If so, who would you like to see hired for next year? Obviously Girardi is going to be a name thrown out immediately, but I'm not really sure who else is capable of controlling that many superstars.

2. Do you think they'll give A-Rod whatever he wants? Without him they probably don't make the playoffs this year, but at least in the first two games of this offseason he's been unproductive again in October. He's certainly going to opt out of his contract, and it sounds like he's going to get around $30 million/yr. For a team that demands nothing less than a World Series title that's a whole lot of money for a guy that's yet to produce in the playoffs (well, except for that Twins series in '04). Also worth noting is the fact that $30 mil would really be a $14 mil raise from the Yankees since the Rangers had been paying around $10 mil of his salary still.

scfan5338

10-07-2007, 02:23 PM

I truly hope that Torre doesn't get fired because as I see it, he is the only man that can lead the Yankees with the boss looking over his shoulder. He is a man that played for the yanks and knows what yankee baseball is all about. He has mismanaged the bullpenn a little bit this year but we need a better pitching coach. Girardi would be a good choice but I don't wanna see anyone else except Torre in the yankee dugout. Unless Torre leaves on his own, he should be in Yankee uniform next year.

Concering A-Rod, they better give him a blank check! I dont care what he asks 28-33 million for A-rod is legit. Without him we wouldn't be here but the guys has to learn to hit in the playoffs. He could have won game 2 for us but struggled big time. If they don't bring him back next year, Yankees will be done for quite a while. Everyone says that they have noone in the farm system but people, look it up they have great up and coming players.

Next year's pitching has the POTENTIAL to be great. The lineup will probably include: Wang, Petettie, Hughes, Kennedy, Mussina and the possiblity of Chamberlian coming back into the rotation. We had to boot Jason Giambi from the team and get some of his money back. This off season will be easy we MUST keep Torre, re-sign A-rod, Posada and Rivera.

gatorunvrsty

10-07-2007, 02:38 PM

Personally, I don't think I hate any other organization as much as I hate the Yankees and the Boss. He's a POS who just tries to buy championships; and nothing pleases me more than watching it when it doesn't work. I pretty much gave up on professional baseball when the revelations came out about how much more he spent on salary than any of the other teams that are in smaller markets. Until there is a salary cap in baseball, I likely won't even follow it except to see if NY loses. Additionally, I have never liked the fact that the American League doesn't actually play baseball, but that mongrel game owners contrived to boost runs and fan interest. That said, I loved the whole Boston story and resurgence regarding the "curse". I wonder if the Cubs will ever have a similar story. And, I think Torre is a class act who has the toughest job in sports, which doesn't really get you anywhere with Steinbrenner. Firing him would just be another in a long history of stupid and reprehensible things he's done. A-Rod will command and get whatever he asks for; and teams must also consider that the team he signs with this time will likely be the beneficiary of being the team who has the next player to break all the major offensive records in baseball. That also brings some extra notoriety and publicity. For the time being, I'll continue to pray that the Yankees lose every game, from afar.

OmahaBound

10-07-2007, 02:44 PM

Yeah, I can see both sides of the argument for Torre. And when you're in a situation where you really don't know who could do a better job you might as well stick with him. But $7 mil sure is a lot of money considering their performance compared to their potential.

As for A-Rod I suppose I agree with that one as well. I mean in theory it's disgusting to pay anyone that much and baseball really does need a salary cap (which just isn't going to happen it appears), but someone would give it to him so I guess it may as well be the Yanks. It's not like his playoff struggles are the only reason there have been no rings during his tenure. Pitching has been the real culprit, and in three years or so they may have one of the best rotations if Hugues, Kennedy, and Chamberlain work out in the long run.

gatorunvrsty

10-07-2007, 02:48 PM

scfan5338

10-07-2007, 04:26 PM

I'm sorry but this is what I hate about "yankee haters." Whatever you say, its the man's way of doing this so let him do it the way he wants. He has money and he wants to spend it so let him. But I do agree that baseball needs a salary cap without a doubt. And in the post above you talk about walking into such a awkward organization?? Yankees are one of the best sports organizations in the world, love em or hate em. Are you serious, have you ever heard this kid talk. He says nothing but I love being here, the competiton, the boss are the reasons why this team is great. He said he lives for the moment.

Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlian have so much potential and we have seen them go great things so far this season. It will SUCK if the GM (forgot his name for a sec) is pressured into trading those three by the boss. If that happens, I will seriously root for another team and that will be hard, I was born a yankee. The GM has tried to build this team like you are suppose to and they are doing it the ways the did in 1995 and 1996 when they brought up Derek Jeter any company.

OmahaBound

10-09-2007, 02:58 PM

Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlian have so much potential and we have seen them go great things so far this season. It will SUCK if the GM (forgot his name for a sec) is pressured into trading those three by the boss. If that happens, I will seriously root for another team and that will be hard, I was born a yankee. The GM has tried to build this team like you are suppose to and they are doing it the ways the did in 1995 and 1996 when they brought up Derek Jeter any company.

There's no way Cashman will be trading any of those three, so I wouldn't sweat that. I could see a day coming where they trade Hughes (simply because his stuff is the only one that doesn't "wow" me of the three), but Joba and Ian are locked in as Yanks for the next six years. I guess the only exception would be if a sign-and-trade was worked out for someone like Peavy or Santana.

The Yanks are in a bizarre position now where their SP prospects are probably still another two or three years away from dominating a full season while the offense keeps getting older and older. It's going to be really interesting to see how Cashman handles all these issues. I'm sure one goal for this winter will be trying desperately to rid of Giambi.

FanSmack

10-09-2007, 04:49 PM

I can't stand the yankees. I want them to be sweeped so bad. I don't think Torre should lose his job though.

D^3

10-09-2007, 07:42 PM

I hate the Yankees.... nothing makes me happier than seeing the highest paid team in baseball get knocked out of contention in the ALDS.

I also hate Steinbrenner... the man is an idiot, always has been. He doesn't understand the game of baseball and never will.

I hope they do fire Joe Torre, so the Braves can hire him in '09 if Bobby Cox retires. Joe was with the Braves back in the 80's.

scfan5338

10-09-2007, 08:36 PM

I also hate Steinbrenner... the man is an idiot, always has been. He doesn't understand the game of baseball and never will.

How many rings has the guy won, I rest my case.

Love him or hate him, he loves baseball, and he likes spending money on the team and can you blame him? The yankees bring in so much in revenue from ticket sales and merchandise sales its not even funny. I'm sorry the braves dont sell out every game and have fans all over the world that buy merchandise. Even after spending all that money on players, they still have profits in the organization. Steinbrenner is a businessman he is damn good that that.

scfan5338

10-09-2007, 08:38 PM

I can't stand the yankees. I want them to be sweeped so bad. I don't think Torre should lose his job though.

Thats great, maybe the A's will get to 26 world titles some day, maybe your great, great, great, great, great grandchildren will be alive then.

I reversed my position from earlier in the week now, I think Torre's gotta go. He's done a heck of a job there is no doubt in my mind but he has gotten all he can get out of the veterans. It's time for a young guy like Girardi to get in there and bring out the new talent that the yankees have.

LSU PRIDE

10-09-2007, 08:40 PM

i think the whole "fire torre " thing was more of a motivation thing..

but then again im not no big baseball fan

with the money NY spends a year .. and the amount of talent they usually have
its a lose of a season if they dont win it all.. atleast thats what ole george says

D^3

10-09-2007, 10:02 PM

How many rings has the guy won, I rest my case.

Love him or hate him, he loves baseball, and he likes spending money on the team and can you blame him? The yankees bring in so much in revenue from ticket sales and merchandise sales its not even funny. I'm sorry the braves dont sell out every game and have fans all over the world that buy merchandise. Even after spending all that money on players, they still have profits in the organization. Steinbrenner is a businessman he is damn good that that.

I don't blame him for spending his money on his team, I blame him for trying to run the team when he has no damn business interfering. Only an ignorant ass would announce to the media that the manager is fired if they don't go the world series, while they're facing elimination in the ALDS.

OmahaBound

10-10-2007, 01:59 AM

I reversed my position from earlier in the week now, I think Torre's gotta go. He's done a heck of a job there is no doubt in my mind but he has gotten all he can get out of the veterans. It's time for a young guy like Girardi to get in there and bring out the new talent that the yankees have.

Are you sure you want Girardi in control of a team with young pitching prospects though? Look at the IP for each of the young starters his one year in Florida. All of them had enormous increases in IP from the previous year, and it's likely not a coincidence that ALL of them were either hurt early this year or had career worst seasons. Granted he's probably learned from the experience, but that would have to make Cashman a little nervous.

D^3

10-10-2007, 09:49 AM

Girardi isn't suited to a team full of veterans. I think his strength is managing a team full of young guys who need direction. I thought he did a fantastic job in Florida, and I thought they made a mistake firing him.

scfan5338

10-10-2007, 02:28 PM

Are you sure you want Girardi in control of a team with young pitching prospects though? Look at the IP for each of the young starters his one year in Florida. All of them had enormous increases in IP from the previous year, and it's likely not a coincidence that ALL of them were either hurt early this year or had career worst seasons. Granted he's probably learned from the experience, but that would have to make Cashman a little nervous.

Thats true and actually I dont think Cashman and Steinbrenner will go to Girardi. If they look within the organization, they'll go to Mattingly.

The rumors has it that they're headed for Tony La Russa. I dont know if he can handle the new york media, but we all know he can handle the vetrans as well as the young guys. Say what you want, but the Yankees are heading towards another one of their turning moments, where they bring up their "garbage" farm talent as most in the outside world say their farm system is. On next year's roster you can expect Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Edwin Ramirez, Brent Cox, Tabata, Duncan, and Clippard. Not to mention they will also have Cano, Wang, and Cabrera. The future is bright for the yankees.

Because we have so many young pitchers, I actually do hope we get La Russa because of the pitching coach that comes with him in Dave Duncan, who can develop these guys into studs.

D^3

10-10-2007, 03:58 PM

Thats true and actually I dont think Cashman and Steinbrenner will go to Girardi. If they look within the organization, they'll go to Mattingly.

The rumors has it that they're headed for Tony La Russa. I dont know if he can handle the new york media, but we all know he can handle the vetrans as well as the young guys. Say what you want, but the Yankees are heading towards another one of their turning moments, where they bring up their "garbage" farm talent as most in the outside world say their farm system is. On next year's roster you can expect Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Edwin Ramirez, Brent Cox, Tabata, Duncan, and Clippard. Not to mention they will also have Cano, Wang, and Cabrera. The future is bright for the yankees.

Because we have so many young pitchers, I actually do hope we get La Russa because of the pitching coach that comes with him in Dave Duncan, who can develop these guys into studs.

The future is bright? They have the highest payroll in baseball, they have the best players in baseball, and they still can't win. I don't see how you think they're going to bring up their worthless prospects and try to win that way. The AL east is too tough of a division for a team composed of rookies to win in. If you took the Rockies and put them in the AL east they would have one of the worst records in baseball. The problem with the Yankees is that they play in New York. A-Rod was the one of the greatest hitters in baseball this past season, but you wouldn't know it if all you read was the New York media. It's the worst city in the nation to play in, the fans are ridiculous. With the kind of crap the team puts up with day in and day out from the public, it's a wonder they ever made it to the playoffs. There's a certain element called morale that plays highly into a teams success; and New York does it's best to demoralize the Yankees. Hell, Steinbrenner himself does it, tell me that announcing that Joe Torre is getting fired if he doesn't win the next game is not demoralizing to a team. There's too much pressure on them. And if you think a team full of young guys has any chance of surviving that kind of pressure you're crazy. It would ruin their careers.

The Yankees will continue to spend the big bucks on big names; but until the media and fan base get off their backs they will have no success in the post season.

palmettocock

10-10-2007, 04:45 PM

If Torre is let go you can say goodbye to Rivera and Posada. George threatens his players all the time, and he should because he's spending an overwhelming amount of money, and he expects to win in return. He may be frustrated with Torre, but the man isn't stupid, and knows that Torre is perhaps the best manager in the game. He doesn't want to lose ARod, Posada, and the only pitcher in the bulpen with a history of winning in Rivera.

scfan5338

10-10-2007, 04:45 PM

The future is bright? They have the highest payroll in baseball, they have the best players in baseball, and they still can't win. I don't see how you think they're going to bring up their worthless prospects and try to win that way.

The future doesn't only consist of the next year or two. You are exactly what I am talking about. Yankees have some of the best pitching prospects in minor league baseball, both starting and relief pitching. Obviously you didn't see how they won in the 90's with the young guys and a bunch of no name position players. And you say worthless prospects, have you seen these guys pitch or even play for that matter. You dont know crap about the Yankees, and your just another one of the haters that see's whats on TV and talks crap.

scfan5338

10-10-2007, 04:47 PM

If Torre is let go you can say goodbye to Rivera and Posada.

They can say all they want about the respect they have for Torre and that they will leave if Torre is gone, but as we all know its about MONEY! The yankees will throw a ridiculous amount of money at both of they that they will not go anywhere. Rivera will retire a Yankee.

scfan5338

10-10-2007, 04:50 PM

There's a certain element called morale that plays highly into a teams success; and New York does it's best to demoralize the Yankees. Hell, Steinbrenner himself does it, tell me that announcing that Joe Torre is getting fired if he doesn't win the next game is not demoralizing to a team. There's too much pressure on them. And if you think a team full of young guys has any chance of surviving that kind of pressure you're crazy. It would ruin their careers.

It's not demoralizing because they are use to it. Torre hears it every single year and so do the players. There is a reason they play for the Yankees, yes they get paid a lot, but with the high salary comes the high adversity and criticism from the Boss and the fans. Because you live in Atlanta or wherever and your team is happy with just getting to the post season and winning division titles that doesn't mean everyone is like you. Atlanta has low expectations and the Yankees have high expectations, it's that simple.

OmahaBound

10-10-2007, 06:50 PM

They can say all they want about the respect they have for Torre and that they will leave if Torre is gone, but as we all know its about MONEY! The yankees will throw a ridiculous amount of money at both of they that they will not go anywhere. Rivera will retire a Yankee.

Did you at least cringe a little as you posted that message?

scfan5338

10-10-2007, 07:04 PM

Did you at least cringe a little as you posted that message?

Not really. I'm convinced that Posada and Riveria will come back even with Torre doesn't just because the Yanks will throw a ton of money at them.

D^3

10-11-2007, 12:10 AM

The future doesn't only consist of the next year or two. You are exactly what I am talking about. Yankees have some of the best pitching prospects in minor league baseball, both starting and relief pitching. Obviously you didn't see how they won in the 90's with the young guys and a bunch of no name position players. And you say worthless prospects, have you seen these guys pitch or even play for that matter. You dont know crap about the Yankees, and your just another one of the haters that see's whats on TV and talks crap.

And by the 90's you mean post-95??? I remember very well as a matter of fact. You see I'm a die-hard Atlanta Braves fan, and the Yankees faced us in 2 of the 3 World Series they made it to (Atlanta went to 5 in the 90's). I'm beginning to think I know more about the late 90's Yankees than you do. They won with no name position players? BS. Andy Pettite, John Wetteland, Derek Jeter (Rookie of the year 96', EVERYBODY knew who Jeter was), Chuck Knoblauch (in his prime) Paul O'neill, Bernie Williams, Jim freakin' Leyritz, David Wells, Darryl Strawberry, a young "El Duque" Hernandez.... these guys are no-names? Who are you kidding?

I'm not a hater... you're just another idiotic Yankees fan who talks more out of your ass than anything else.

D^3

10-11-2007, 12:16 AM

It's not demoralizing because they are use to it. Torre hears it every single year and so do the players. There is a reason they play for the Yankees, yes they get paid a lot, but with the high salary comes the high adversity and criticism from the Boss and the fans. Because you live in Atlanta or wherever and your team is happy with just getting to the post season and winning division titles that doesn't mean everyone is like you. Atlanta has low expectations and the Yankees have high expectations, it's that simple.

Atlanta has low expectations?? WE WON 14 STRAIGHT DIVISION TITLES, the Yankees have NEVER done that. We went to the World Series FIVE TIMES in the 90's. You think we have low expectations??? You're a fool. The difference is we aren't a collective bunch of @-holes who throw stuff from our seats because our best hitter doesn't hit a home run every time he comes to bat.

This kind of bullcrap doesn't surprise me from a Yankees fan. You really think you're something don't you? Well guess what partner, for all the money Steinbrenner has thrown into that pathetic team, they've choked SINCE 2001, and they have no excuse. The Braves??? Our team got sold to a company that didn't care about baseball. We haven't had a payroll anywhere NEAR the Yankees. And guess what? We still managed to get to the postseason as many times as the Yankees, because unlike New York, our players LIKE to play here. Our fans treat our players well, which is something you will never be able to say in New York. I guarantee you A-rod wishes he'd never gone there.

GatorNation

10-11-2007, 07:13 AM

Keep JT and A-Rod.

JT should have a lifetime contract after wht he's been able to accomplish in NY.

OmahaBound

10-11-2007, 08:35 AM

They won with no name position players? BS. Andy Pettite, John Wetteland, Derek Jeter (Rookie of the year 96', EVERYBODY knew who Jeter was), Chuck Knoblauch (in his prime) Paul O'neill, Bernie Williams, Jim freakin' Leyritz, David Wells, Darryl Strawberry, a young "El Duque" Hernandez.... these guys are no-names? Who are you kidding?

Dude, his point was obviously not that the team was comprised of nobodies, but rather guys they didn't overpay for like in this decade. A team in NY could never be comprised of nobodies because with that media market anybody would be known worldwide within a month.

Yes the Yankees were still ranked high in team salary during those championship years, but it was a completely reasonable amount. Out of the players you listed, El Duque is the only one their wallet guaranteed them. Scfan was simply pointing out that in the 90s the Yanks focused on developing players (Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Pettite, et al) rather than trying to simply buy championships (Clemens, Giambi, Matsui, Damon, Mussina, Sheffield, et al).

There is not a single prospect worth a dime that came up in the Yanks organization for MANY years (relatively speaking) until Cano came up three years ago or whatever. Now the Yankees have a very solid farm system with several prospects the rest of the league is drooling over. Cashman actually has some power on this team now however, and he wants to depend on the prospects more than buying aging stars since clearly that strategy never worked for them.

That being said, let's not pretend money isn't a factor in the farm system as well. The Red Sox and Yanks have two of the most talent rich minor league systems in all of MLB and a lot of that has to do with the fact that they can draft players no one else will because the pricetag is too high. High school and college juniors often set their price very high since they wouldn't mind going back to college for one more year. Well the Sox and Yanks are willing to offer more than most teams and that has definitely helped the rebuilding process.

scfan5338

10-11-2007, 09:26 AM

Dude, his point was obviously not that the team was comprised of nobodies, but rather guys they didn't overpay for like in this decade. A team in NY could never be comprised of nobodies because with that media market anybody would be known worldwide within a month.

Yes the Yankees were still ranked high in team salary during those championship years, but it was a completely reasonable amount. Out of the players you listed, El Duque is the only one their wallet guaranteed them. Scfan was simply pointing out that in the 90s the Yanks focused on developing players (Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Pettite, et al) rather than trying to simply buy championships (Clemens, Giambi, Matsui, Damon, Mussina, Sheffield, et al).

Thank you. Finally someone with some commonsense is talking and has a little bit of knowledge about baseball. And Doug, yeah you won 14 divisional titles and the yankees had won 12 or 13 or something but whatever the case is you guys are happy with just the 14 divisonal titles. You are not expecting more than that from your team. We won divisional titles but during that we also won rings and we got to the world series. Thats what I'm saying the difference is between ATL and NYY. The Media and Fan pressure is well known and the players know what they sign when they sign the contract.

When the yankees won the rings after 96 when Jeter came up, they had a bunch of players who were not well known before their Yankee days and they weren't over paid.

Doug, you still dont know anything about the Yankees farm system as you said "how are they going to win with their WORTHLESS prospects." I not gonna mention the prospects again but I can gurantee you that you will come to know these guy's name just like you came to know Jeter, Williams, Rivera and company.

D^3

10-11-2007, 11:54 AM

but whatever the case is you guys are happy with just the 14 divisonal titles. You are not expecting more than that from your team.

That's a load of crap and if you don't know it, then your head is really far up your ass.

Don't mistake ESPN's love affair with NY and the BoSox for meaning that they are the only two teams that care about the World Series.

D^3

10-11-2007, 11:58 AM

Dude, his point was obviously not that the team was comprised of nobodies,

Oh, really???

Obviously you didn't see how they won in the 90's with the young guys and a bunch of no-name position players.

OmahaBound

10-11-2007, 01:17 PM

Oh, really???

Oh I read it. However I know how to read between the lines as well. If all you're interested in is slamming the Yankees then keep out of this thread and start a different one. I'm a Sox fan so obviously I'm fine with bashing the Yanks. :laugh: ....but this isn't the thread for that.

D^3

10-11-2007, 01:26 PM

Oh I read it. However I know how to read between the lines as well. If all you're interested in is slamming the Yankees then keep out of this thread and start a different one. I'm a Sox fan so obviously I'm fine with bashing the Yanks. :laugh: ....but this isn't the thread for that.

Yankees bashing is always acceptable.

Bburton86

10-11-2007, 01:30 PM

When the MLB enacts a salary ceiling and basement then I will start watching more than the post season.

D^3

10-11-2007, 01:32 PM

When the MLB enacts a salary ceiling and basement then I will start watching more than the post season.

The beautiful thing about baseball is that the teams with the lowest payrolls often knock off the big boys.

scfan5338

10-11-2007, 02:23 PM

That's a load of crap and if you don't know it, then your head is really far up your ass.

Yeah that must be it Doug, you'd know since that is where your head is most of the time up your behind.

So what's the reason behind them only getting to the series like once during the 14 years of divisional titles? Obviously the expectations are lower than they are in Boston and New York and had that happened anywhere else, like it did with the yankees Cox would have been out years ago. He is a great coach I don't have a doubt in my mind about that.

WayzUp

10-11-2007, 02:53 PM

Personally, I don't think I hate any other organization as much as I hate the Yankees and the Boss. He's a POS who just tries to buy championships; and nothing pleases me more than watching it when it doesn't work. I pretty much gave up on professional baseball when the revelations came out about how much more he spent on salary than any of the other teams that are in smaller markets. Until there is a salary cap in baseball, I likely won't even follow it except to see if NY loses..

The Yank's top 3 paid of A-Rod, Giambi and Jeter make more than 9 other teams' total salaries.

Those 3 guys make more than my Pirates whole roster and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays entire roster COMBINED.

Five of the top 10 paid players in all of baseball are Yankees.

The difference alone between the Yankees payroll and the 2nd highest (Red Sox, of course) is $46,612,831. That is more than what four teams pay their entire team.

I'm with gatorunvsty...I refuse to follow baseball until there's a FIRM salary cap. Enough of this silly "luxury tax"....wtf good did they expect that to do? Until there's a commissioner with any sense and/or guts who isn't biased and a cheat himself, baseball will continue to flounder in football's shadown. America's pasttime....phfftt, whatever. :glare:

D^3

10-11-2007, 03:47 PM

So what's the reason behind them only getting to the series like once during the 14 years of divisional titles? Obviously the expectations are lower than they are in Boston and New York and had that happened anywhere else, like it did with the yankees Cox would have been out years ago. He is a great coach I don't have a doubt in my mind about that.

I don't know, you should though... the Yankees have fallen out of contention every year since 2001, even with the highest payroll in baseball.

Expectation lower than Boston? The Braves have been much more successful since 1990 than Boston, so I don't know what you're getting at there. You aren't in touch with baseball are you?

OmahaBound

10-11-2007, 03:53 PM

I'm with gatorunvsty...I refuse to follow baseball until there's a FIRM salary cap. Enough of this silly "luxury tax"....wtf good did they expect that to do? Until there's a commissioner with any sense and/or guts who isn't biased and a cheat himself, baseball will continue to flounder in football's shadown. America's pasttime....phfftt, whatever. :glare:

You probably don't care, but I hope you realize that literally the only people you're hurting are your Pirates. Baseball is financially stronger than ever. The luxury tax obviously has done nothing to curb spending what it has done is put more money into the pockets of the small market teams. I don't care enough to look it up, but I'm pretty sure every team (or at least almost all) teams pulled a profit last year...in part thanks to the luxury tax. Blame the owners of these teams for not putting the money towards better players.

Let's not pretend these teams that can spend money but refuse to are making some kind of political statement. They're simply cheap. The Twins could easily afford to pay Tori Hunter and Johan Santana, but the odds are good they won't. You have business men running baseball teams strictly like businesses. That's all well and good but when your primary concern is not losing money (when lord knows you could afford to lose a few million while you build the team up) the outcomes are not going to be good. I hate that Steinbrenner and Tom Hicks have created this current market of player salaries, but at least with Steinbrenner you know he would gladly lose millions of dollars every year if would get the Yankees a championship.

As for your last point...football will always be king even if the problems you mentioned are fixed, because people now have the attention spans of a Jack Russell terrier. Literally a full season of football is played in under three weeks in MLB, and the baseball regular season lasts a full 6 months.

In the shadows? Sure. Floundering? Hardly.

OmahaBound

10-11-2007, 04:02 PM

sheluvsbama

10-11-2007, 04:05 PM

The Yankees are plenty "down". It may be awhile before they are anyone to be jealous of again. I say, let 'em languish in their bad season, and there are apt to be a few more in the near future. They may have alot of money, but there are times when even THAT God of the Western world, CASH, can't win the game. The Yanks will struggle, with or without Torre.:happy:

WayzUp

10-11-2007, 04:21 PM

I've created a new thread for everyone not interested in a discussion on the Yankees offseason questions. Have a great time!... http://www.sectalk.com/boards/mlb/21735-official-yankees-mlb-bashfest.html#post299292

Dood, chill. If you don't think the Yankees' enormousgantus payroll, their hoarding of free agents and the outrageous expectations heaped upon all by its owner has a direct effect on both of your original queries, yer nuts. It's ALL about money in NY and especially with the Yankees. It's why Torre is probably going to get fired despite leading them to the playoffs THIRTEEN STRAIGHT SEASONS. It's why they can play the wait-and-see game on A-Rod and just casually say, "myeah, I guess we'll keep him" if there isn't another free agent on another team that they can buy to replace his production (there isn't).

But since you went through all the trouble of creating a whole new thread to bash the Yankees...I don't mind if I do! Seeya over there! :lol:

scfan5338

10-11-2007, 08:51 PM

I don't know, you should though... the Yankees have fallen out of contention every year since 2001, even with the highest payroll in baseball.

Expectation lower than Boston? The Braves have been much more successful since 1990 than Boston, so I don't know what you're getting at there. You aren't in touch with baseball are you?

I'm in touch with baseball trust me. And the expectations are lower in Atlanta than they are in Boston. We all know that since Braves got that GM, forgot his name right now, they have won the most games since he came. What I'm saying is the Braves won the divisional titles and one world series, and didn't win another won after that. I never said the Braves were less succssful than the Braves.

Boston kicked Grady Little to the curb after losing Game 7 to the yankees. You'd never see that happen in Atlanta. You can't deny that there is more expectation and pressure in Boston and NY than any other city, in any sports.

D^3

10-11-2007, 09:10 PM

I'm in touch with baseball trust me. And the expectations are lower in Atlanta than they are in Boston. We all know that since Braves got that GM, forgot his name right now, they have won the most games since he came. What I'm saying is the Braves won the divisional titles and one world series, and didn't win another won after that. I never said the Braves were less succssful than the Braves.

You aren't in touch... where do you get this idea that we have lower expectations? Listen pal, as a member of the fan-base I can assure you that the Braves are the most popular team in Atlanta and we very much want another world series title here. As much, if not MORE, than Boston wants it. Boston has the Patriots. They'll be fine. In Atlanta, it's all about the Braves.

scfan5338

10-11-2007, 09:14 PM

You aren't in touch... where do you get this idea that we have lower expectations?

From the fact that you have made it to the post season 14 years in a row and won the world series won and you still have the same coach. In baseball, it's all on the managers shoulders.

D^3

10-11-2007, 09:26 PM

From the fact that you have made it to the post season 14 years in a row and won the world series won and you still have the same coach. In baseball, it's all on the managers shoulders.

John Schuerholz has been the GM of the club since 1990, and he said from a very early date "Bobby Cox is our manager, there will be no further discussion." Bobby Cox is a great manager... sometimes you just don't have what it takes to go all the way. We've suffered for years under the ownership of Time-Warner, which cared less if the Braves went to the post season. It's been a long time since Ted Turner owned the club and actually wanted to see them win. We haven't had the funds available to go after the pieces to complete the puzzle. See in New York I realize you don't have this problem because Steinbrenner prints his own money... but the Braves have been strapped for cash ever since Ted sold the team and we're just now getting to actually go after the players we need.

scfan5338

10-12-2007, 10:07 AM

John Schuerholz has been the GM of the club since 1990, and he said from a very early date "Bobby Cox is our manager, there will be no further discussion." Bobby Cox is a great manager... sometimes you just don't have what it takes to go all the way. We've suffered for years under the ownership of Time-Warner, which cared less if the Braves went to the post season. It's been a long time since Ted Turner owned the club and actually wanted to see them win. We haven't had the funds available to go after the pieces to complete the puzzle. See in New York I realize you don't have this problem because Steinbrenner prints his own money... but the Braves have been strapped for cash ever since Ted sold the team and we're just now getting to actually go after the players we need.

Actaully he gets his money from every single sell out game he has at yankee stadium and the TV network they have. YES network brings in a lot of money every year as does the merchandise sales. Yankees are known all over the world and their merchandise is sold all over the world. There is a ridiculous amount of money coming in from merichandise is ticket sales and not to mention the sponsors.

D^3

10-12-2007, 01:13 PM

Bottom line: Steinbrenner wipes his butt with hundred-dollar bills, and he can afford to spend pretty much anything on the Yankees.

The Braves (as well as most other teams in baseball) are at a big disadvantage. But that doesn't stop us from trying. Don't think that because your team has the highest payroll in baseball that you are somehow more motivated to win the World Series. The Colorado Rockies are a prime example of baseball teams with low payrolls with a burning desire to win the WS.

scfan5338

10-12-2007, 02:56 PM

lacene

10-12-2007, 07:57 PM

I guess pretty much every team in MLB - to varying extents - "buy" a portion of their team in order to make it more talented, and more competitive. So therefore it can be said that every team - to an extent - "buys" the success their teams have.

The Yankees, with Steinbrenner, have just taken it to far more extreme measures than other teams can, or will. Ted Turner wasn't exactly a miser when it came to spending for his Braves. He just never let himself get to extreme levels, like Steinbrenner did just before the luxury tax was brought into existence. During most of the 90's, the Braves always ranked in the top 3 for the highest payroll, many seasons even being ranked above NY. As late as 2000, the Yanks led MLB with 113 mil payroll, and ATL was 2nd with 95 mil...not too divergent.

TWC had to cut back on the payroll after their colossal AOL-Time Warner merger flop. The Braves were still the 4th highest payroll in '04 with 105 million. But the Yanks were pulling away with a 150 million payroll. For '07, NY led once again with a 195 mil payroll. Atlanta isn't even in the top 10, with a 90 million payroll (good for 13th): MLB Team Payrolls (http://www.super70s.com/Baseball/Years/2006/Payroll.asp).

You can't fault the players for not winning world series titles as not having the desire or the expectations, when the organization(s) they play for can't, or won't, financially compete with the organizations that do. From Schuerholz and Cox down to the last player on the Braves team, they competed as much if not more than the players for the NY teams all these years.

When an organization can go out and be the top bidder for all the free agents in the Majors, and corral all that talent, my thought process is, "well, so they won the World Series: big deal, they SHOULD'VE won it, with the talent they have." It's a fore-gone conclusion. I'd rather watch my team develop from ground up, like the Braves did. It feels like they earned their titles more. It feels like the value resides more in the championships, rather than in the player that plays for them. That speaks to the spirit of the game...

The fact that NY has almost doubled most other teams' payrolls ever since they lost to Arizona, and Big George walked through the lockerroom mumbling that the Yankees would do it "his way" from there on out, and yet they've won 0 World Series titles since then, speaks volumes IMO. The Yankees may have high expectations, but maybe they're the wrong expectations:

maybe they don't expect to win, they just expect to get paid.....

D^3

10-14-2007, 09:13 PM

maybe they don't expect to win, they just expect to get paid.....

Best comment in this thread.

scfan5338

10-15-2007, 12:03 PM

Steinbrenner saying I"'m in full control of the team", is no more. His son's Hank and Hal are taking about daily duties in the Yankees organization. The official titles and duties will be outlined this week as they start their winter meetings in Tampa.

D^3

10-15-2007, 12:08 PM

First good decision the Yanks have made in 10 years. I was wondering when they would take the reigns away from the ever-increasing senile George.

scfan5338

10-15-2007, 02:13 PM

First good decision the Yanks have made in 10 years. I was wondering when they would take the reigns away from the ever-increasing senile George.

I'd agree with you that that is probably the best decision they have made. The brothers sound like they want to keep Joe Torre, which is probably the smart thing to do. I'm so glad the Boss is finally away from the day to day duties and I think you will see a different yankee team, win or lose for years to come especially under Brian Cashman. He has really advocated the youth movement and the two brothers are really buying into that idea.

One negative is that, the two haven't been up with baseball as you would like. Read a comment somewhere, where one of the brothers was saying "I'm going to have to start paying attention to the baseball side of things" thats never a good thing to here, but we'll see. I'm glad to see Steinbrenner outta there.