Spurrier: Change Admissions Standards Or I'm Gone

[lacene]

Spurrier Speaks Out About Rejected Recruits

By Phil Kornblut
On Recruiting
Published: August 5, 2007

USC football coach Steve Spurrier took the opportunity of his Media Day news conference Sunday to express his feelings about the university's denial of admission of two of his recruits, both of whom had qualified under the NCAA standards. Following is the text of his comments:

"Again, I've got to apologize to two young men that we recruited and they qualified, they signed with us in February, and they were denied admission to our school. Personally, I don't think that's the way you do business. I'm embarrassed that I, and our coaches, basically misled these young men into believing they were coming here. Now, I'm not blasting the president or the provost. The president has already told me how we're going to change how we do admissions here, but I think we need to get it out to the high school coaches and the players out there that this is not going to happen again. As a head coach, one of the big things I've always tried to follow, in a player-coach relationship, honesty has to be the centerpiece of everything you have to do with your players. And it starts when you recruit them. I don't always tell recruits what they want to hear. I try to be honest with them and all I every guarantee is an opportunity. And when you tell a young man that if he qualifies he's coming to your school and it doesnt happen, somebody is misleading, and it's me. I'm the guy. The head coach is the face of every college football program. It's my fault. It's nobody else's fault but mine. This happened two years ago with a couple of players. I begged and pleaded, pleaded and begged, and our provost relented and let them in. They were very good players and both started last year. It happened again this year. One of the three got in. But we had a plan in place that if we oversigned, there's a perception out there that South Carolina oversigned and that they are just getting rid of guys, and that's not true. That's not true on our coaching staff. We had a plan in place to grayshirt if they all qualified. We were going to to that. As it turned out, we're not going to have to do that right now. In my opinion, our school, me, we made a mistake in doing this. Again, I'm not criticizing the president, he said we're going to change how we do it. We're going to change, but for our credibility, mine and the coaching staff, I just want the high school coaches, the parents of the players and all of them to know that that's not going to happen here if I continue to be the coach, and I plan on being the coach here a long time. We can have a heck of a big time college football program here at South Carolina if we want to do things the right way, and we've got to do things the right way. Hopefully, I truly believe this is the last year this is going to happen because I can't operate like that. I can't operate misleading young men. And our coaches can't. We suffered a severe blow credibility wise around North Carolina, Anson County, where Michael Bowman is from, and Jacksonville, FL where Arkee Smith is from. I'm trying to do what I can to help that right now and to try to restore whatever credibility that we can get in those schools. As long as I'm the coach here, we're going to take guys that qualify. If not, then I'm going to have to go somewhere else because I can't tell a young man you come to school here, he qualifies, and not do that. And we did that this year."

gogamecocks.com link (http://www.gogamecocks.com/index.php/site/recruiting_article/spurrier_speaks_out_about_rejected_recruits/)



I agree with this to a good degree. While I think it's great to be raising admission standards across the board for USC, it's also important to have a clear plan in place that all faculty - including the coaches of the athletic programs - can understand and be on the same page with. Especially with student-athletes: typical non sports-playing students are rarely recruited to enroll at USC, so they don't deal with employees of that college making promises to them.

It sounds like Spurrier wasn't too enamored with the admission policies of the provost this time around, and I can't say I blame him.

[palmettocock]

Coach has a right to be pissed off. He believed he was recruiting the right way, then the university just takes players from him. I'm all for raising the standards with the football players. As a matter of fact, I give Sorenson a standing ovation....but he completely screwed over these young men who qualified. It should have been handled differently.

[GamecockDieHard]

They did the same thing to a basketball recruit last year. Qualified through the NCAA, did EXACTLY what the coaches told him to do, then the admissions office denied his acceptance. That's BS and no way to do business in any field.

[Williams-Brice]

They did the same thing to a basketball recruit last year. Qualified through the NCAA, did EXACTLY what the coaches told him to do, then the admissions office denied his acceptance. That's BS and no way to do business in any field.

Did you read my reply to your comment in the other thread concerning this? Dave Odom was told by the president and admissions committee to NOT recruit Chad Gray. Odom recruited him anyway. Odom misled him, NOT the president and NOT the admissions office. You are comparing apples and oranges here. He did exactly what the coaches told him to do, yes, but the problem was that the coaches didn't do what the front office said. That's BS on Odom's part, which is what we've come to expect from our basketball program.

[Williams-Brice]

The bottom line here is that the president's office, admissions office, and football office should be on the same page? I have absolutely no problem with Carolina having tougher admissions requirements than what the NCAA Clearinghouse requires, but the coaches need to be made aware of those requirements. I'm siding with the president and admissions office on this, but they gotta let the coaches know what's going on.

[TKE223]

The bottom line is that Spurrier will NOT leave. Obviously the Coaches/President and Provost need to be on the same page, and maybe something will change, but Spurrier isnt going to leave. Maybe something will change, maybe not.

I also noticed that the quotes posted to uscsports.com were altered to NOT include those last lines that are bolded in the original post to this thread...interesting.....

[GatorHunter]

The bottom line here is that the president's office, admissions office, and football office should be on the same page? I have absolutely no problem with Carolina having tougher admissions requirements than what the NCAA Clearinghouse requires, but the coaches need to be made aware of those requirements. I'm siding with the president and admissions office on this, but they gotta let the coaches know what's going on.

Agreed, WB.....not trying to hijack this thread, just giving an example...at UF, the admissions office goes over each recruit's transcripts and scores prior to signing day...usually in late November early December. If a kid will not make it in.....the kid's offer is usually withdrawn...this actually happened this season with a kid out of Gainesville...monster recruit that committed early on...however, when the admissions office went over his info, it was learned that he wouldn't make it....so, his offer was taken away. Now, sometimes, it might be "iffy"...like with the case in John Brown this season...but he was told what the UF's admission office required...not the NCAA...and he did it. Agree with you 100% though, WB...the admissions dept at SC shouldn't lower standards so coaches can get better football players...or at least, they should work with the HBC and screen these kids prior to NSD.

[Williams-Brice]

As a recent college grad, it kinda makes me cringe to know that a football coach can change a school's admissions standards. Our school pays plenty of money to plenty of people to make those standards, and our school has worked too hard to raise our standards to become an up-and-coming institution nationally. Spurrier's got a right to be upset because he was obviously left out of the loop in terms of the admissions policies, but it's not his job to determine who gets in and who doesn't.

[GTmorris1970]

Here is my .02 on this. I don't blame Spurrier at all for being upset, and anyone who say he WON'T leave obviously don't know him very well. He was embarrassed by this, and rightfully so. I also agree SC SHOULD have tough entrance standards, but we also have to remember college football especially is big business. Doing this to recruits can ruin your image with high school coaches, and the Fla. area is not an area you want to ruin. I agree with WB in saying the standards should be higher, and the school should set the policies. They MUST let their coaches know however what those policies and standards are so your not misleading a high school athlete. I fully believe SOS was venting when he spoke of leaving if things don't change, but he will not let anyone ruin his name and reputation in college football. It also ticks me off that every time things are looking so high here, something like this has to put a black eye on it. This year it's been QR being arrested, Blake being suspended for the first two practices, and now this. I will be so happy when we all get on the same page. I mean the fans, the university, the players and the coaches. As SOS has said over and over, that is what takes you to the top.

[OmahaBound]

The reports consistently state that Spurrier and the administration are working to correct the problem. That does not necessarily mean that we're going to lower our standards though. I'm gonna hold out hope that Sorenson is holding strong on this and the changes are going to be along the lines of UF's system, where the players know exactly where they are lacking. If the players know the exact standards they must meet and how our standards differ from the NCAA's then there is absolutely nothing wrong with denying admission to those who barely qualify to play anywhere.

[Williams-Brice]

The reports consistently state that Spurrier and the administration are working to correct the problem. That does not necessarily mean that we're going to lower our standards though. I'm gonna hold out hope that Sorenson is holding strong on this and the changes are going to be along the lines of UF's system, where the players know exactly where they are lacking. If the players know the exact standards they must meet and how our standards differ from the NCAA's then there is absolutely nothing wrong with denying admission to those who barely qualify to play anywhere.

Perfectly said.

[JerryBeeds]

Yep, it's Arkee Smith that keeps USC from being Harvard. :rolleyes: Hard to believe that one student can bring down a student body of 20,000. This coaching staff has a pretty good track record with academics and should be given the benefit of the doubt unless its something egregious.

[Dr. Pepper]

The word for all of this is integrety. Everyone wants to have integrety. The University wants to stay true to the standards it has set for today (in fact, they will continue to raise the standards). Spurrier wants to be known as a man who is true to his words. Sometimes, there will be conflict within a system as large and complex as a University. These are grown men. They will work through this.

[GamecockDieHard]

Did you read my reply to your comment in the other thread concerning this? Dave Odom was told by the president and admissions committee to NOT recruit Chad Gray. Odom recruited him anyway. Odom misled him, NOT the president and NOT the admissions office. You are comparing apples and oranges here. He did exactly what the coaches told him to do, yes, but the problem was that the coaches didn't do what the front office said. That's BS on Odom's part, which is what we've come to expect from our basketball program.

Yes I did. But I guess I missed the story where Odom apologized to Chad 'cause he was too stupid to listen to administration. I can't imagine a head coach at this level would tell a kid he was getting in when he absolutely knew he wouldn't? That doesn't even make sense.

Administration: "Hey Coach, don't recruit Gray, he can't get in."
Odom: "Hey Chad. Great news. Just spoke to admissions. You're good to go!"

Pardon me if I'm a little suspicious since Spurrier's comments. I know you've got connections and I'm sure you get alot of the real story that we, on the outside, can't get but I'm not convinced this is all mixed fruit, as you say it is.
Spurrier's comments are pretty clear and it's very similar, IMO.

Maybe they told Spurrier:
Administration: "Hey Coach, don't recruit these two guys, they can't get in."

But according to you, they were happy to tell the "idiot" Odom in advance, but they didn't feel the same need to forewarn Spurrier or any of his staff? Since, as Spurrier said, this isn't the first time they've screwed this up, I have to disagree with your defense of the people I think you work for. I've met bow-tie and he seems like a nice enough guy but just remember the company Kool-aid tastes good, but may not always be good for you.;)

[Noah.Dreams]

Sounds like it's Spurrier's integrity that's been tarnished and the ole ball coach has drawn the line.

This is gonna get real interesting....

Spurrier blasts South Carolina's admissions process
Coach says he'd leave Gamecocks if situation doesn't change

Associated Press
Published on: 08/05/07

Columbia, S.C. — An embarrassed and angry Steve Spurrier (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/stories/2007/08/05/spurrier_0805.html#) blasted South Carolina's admissions process Sunday, apologizing to two recruits who signed with the Gamecocks last winter and were denied academic entry this summer.
"In my opinion, I still believe we made a mistake in doing this," Spurrier said Sunday.


Spurrier had spoken with university president Andrew Sorensen and the two agreed, the coach said, that things needed to change.


Spurrier was angered that receiver Michael Bowman of Wadesboro, N.C., and Arkee Smith of Jacksonville, Fla., were cleared by the NCAA to enroll, yet were turned down by the university. The rest of the Gamecocks football team officially reported Friday for preseason camp.


"Hopefully, I truly believe this is the last year this is going to happen, because I can't operate like that," Spurrier said. "I can't operate misleading young men."


Spurrier signed a contract extension, which included a raise of nearly a half-million dollars, that ties him to South Carolina through 2012. However, he said if things didn't change on admissions "then I have to go somewhere else, because I can't tell the young man that he's coming to school here," then not have him admitted.


University spokesman Russ McKinney said Spurrier has been involved in talks with Sorensen and other administrators about refining the process of athletic admissions.


"I think the university administration understands his frustration," McKinney said.


McKinney said the goal would be to let all South Carolina coaches know as early as possible whether a prospect would meet the university's admission standards.


It's not the first time athletic admissions has a chief topic for Palmetto State football fans.


In February, Clemson's football program lost prospects in receiver Dwight Jones and runner Jo Jo Cox when they were turned down by the school's Athletic Advisory Review Committee.


About a week later, Clemson president James Barker pledged a review of the entrance process for athletes. Clemson football coach Tommy Bowden said then he thought academic administrators there understood the importance of recruiting "on a level playing field" with other schools.


And it's also not the first time that Spurrier has had influence on university policy. Before his first season, South Carolina's athletic department changed its drug testing stance from "two strikes and your out" to where it would take a fourth positive test for dismissal from school.


At the time, Spurrier said the revamped guidelines were more in keeping with South Carolina's rivals. "It should be close to Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, very much in line with the state universities in the SEC," he said in August 2005.


This time, Spurrier pressed his case at the school's media day.
He felt he still had the support of South Carolina administrators in going forward with changes. He did not discuss specifics of what the new admissions process should be, only that it had to change.


He said his credibility took a hit with coaches, players and families who knew Bowman and Smith, two members of a recruiting class that most analysts had ranked among the 10 best in the country.


"For our credibility, mine and the coaching staff, I just want the high school coaches, the parents of players and all of them to know that's not going to happen here if I continue to be the coach," Spurrier said.

[GTmorris1970]

If Spurrier knew the policy and even thought this would happen he would not be as ticked as he is. From what I have read from insiders the policy is gray at best, and Sorenson could have overridden this decision. I spoke extensively to a 40 plus year Alabama fan today who knows Sorenson well from the Bama days. He was not surprised, and said to watch him. We also agree Sorenson just signed his death warrant. I would not doubt if the Board of Trustees isn't still meeting. Anyone who says this isn't a big deal doesn't know anything about athletics. This is a HUGE deal. It hurts recruiting because high school coaches don't trust you, and other college teams use this fiasco against you. It's not like we have numerous championships in our trophy case to get athletes here. A lot of it is on SOS's good name. Not only that, but it makes SOS out to be a liar and dishonest coach. I think that irritated him more than anything. Not only that, this is not Harvard. It's an SEC school. I believe in education just as much as the next person. But after reading his resume I see now why Sorenson wears a bowtie. And from what I understand he doesn't like athletics anyway. I don't believe the Board of Trustees would allow Spurrier to leave. At least I hope not. I understand they have already spoken to Sorenson.

[Williams-Brice]

Yes I did. But I guess I missed the story where Odom apologized to Chad 'cause he was too stupid to listen to administration. I can't imagine a head coach at this level would tell a kid he was getting in when he absolutely knew he wouldn't? That doesn't even make sense.

Administration: "Hey Coach, don't recruit Gray, he can't get in."
Odom: "Hey Chad. Great news. Just spoke to admissions. You're good to go!"

Pardon me if I'm a little suspicious since Spurrier's comments. I know you've got connections and I'm sure you get alot of the real story that we, on the outside, can't get but I'm not convinced this is all mixed fruit, as you say it is.
Spurrier's comments are pretty clear and it's very similar, IMO.

Maybe they told Spurrier:
Administration: "Hey Coach, don't recruit these two guys, they can't get in."

But according to you, they were happy to tell the "idiot" Odom in advance, but they didn't feel the same need to forewarn Spurrier or any of his staff? Since, as Spurrier said, this isn't the first time they've screwed this up, I have to disagree with your defense of the people I think you work for. I've met bow-tie and he seems like a nice enough guy but just remember the company Kool-aid tastes good, but may not always be good for you.;)

There is a BIG difference in these two situations. Chad Gray went to a NON-ACCREDITED HIGH-SCHOOL. The school didn't even have science labs. The kid had no laboratory science classes. You can't get into any state supported four-year public institution if that's the case. The football recruits went to accredited high schools. Odom was strongly encouraged not to recruit Chad Gray. There was no reason not to encourage Spurrier to do differently.

If a kid who goes to a non-accredited high school calls the admissions office to see what his chances are of getting into USC, then they are going to tell him not to apply. If a kid who goes to an accredited high school calls the admissions office to see what his chances are of getting into USC, then they are going to tell him to go ahead and apply and they'll see what happens. That's where the difference is. Chad Gray was judged by the admissions office before he applied because they knew where he was coming from. The rejected football recruits had their applications reviewed like any other of the 14,000 prosepective undergraduate freshmen who apply each year.

BIG difference.

[Williams-Brice]

If Spurrier knew the policy and even thought this would happen he would not be as ticked as he is. From what I have read from insiders the policy is gray at best, and Sorenson could have overridden this decision. I spoke extensively to a 40 plus year Alabama fan today who knows Sorenson well from the Bama days. He was not surprised, and said to watch him. We also agree Sorenson just signed his death warrant. I would not doubt if the Board of Trustees isn't still meeting. Anyone who says this isn't a big deal doesn't know anything about athletics. This is a HUGE deal. It hurts recruiting because high school coaches don't trust you, and other college teams use this fiasco against you. It's not like we have numerous championships in our trophy case to get athletes here. A lot of it is on SOS's good name. Not only that, but it makes SOS out to be a liar and dishonest coach. I think that irritated him more than anything. Not only that, this is not Harvard. It's an SEC school. I believe in education just as much as the next person. But after reading his resume I see now why Sorenson wears a bowtie. And from what I understand he doesn't like athletics anyway. I don't believe the Board of Trustees would allow Spurrier to leave. At least I hope not. I understand they have already spoken to Sorenson.

Sorensen is involved in much bigger things at Carolina than the football program.

Innovista: Innovative Research and modern, urban lifestyle (http://innovista.sc.edu/)

That's Andrew Sorensen's legacy here; not overriding Spurrier's request to admit two football players.

[GTmorris1970]

That's Andrew Sorensen's legacy here; not overriding Spurrier's request to admit two football players.

Hope that works out well for him. This is what the Board of Trustees is commenting on today, and placing the blame pretty much squarely on his shoulders.

[OmahaBound]

Spurrier's not going anywhere because the school will alter it's policy.

Sorenson is not going anywhere because he's trying to improve the standards of this academic institution....not undermine Spurrier and the football team.

The Board of Trustees is routinely full of %$^*, because the Board of Trustees has been full of $%*# for years. They'll say whatever they think the public wants to hear, but they're not so stupid as to fire Sorenson over two kids not getting into school.

The problem is not that these kids were rejected. The problem is that they were notified so absurdly late in the process and that there was no definitive cutoff that these kids knew they needed to make. USC's statement today also pointed out that the football program isn't entirely innocent in this regard. They waited to get all the transcripts and scores to the committee. Perhaps if they would have been more on top of things these kids would have known a few weeks ago that they were denied admission.

The end result will either be lowering of standards again (I really hope not) or the establishment of a clear minimum these kids need to meet in order to gain admittance. That and the process will be expedited to make sure the kids know earlier.

Also worth noting...haven't we failed to meet standards in the APR? So shouldn't we be avoiding kids that the university seriously questions whether they can make the grade or not?

[Williams-Brice]

Hope that works out well for him. This is what the Board of Trustees is commenting on today, and placing the blame pretty much squarely on his shoulders.

Let me know what his punishment is. They won't repremand Sorensen, and they shouldn't. Innovista is far more important than the football program. Let's hope the BOT understands that. I'm sure they do.

[GamecockDieHard]

I think I've had this argument before with some posters. It's some people's opinion that the name on the degree matters more than what you do with the degree. Nevermind there are Ivy League graduates driving taxis, some will act like we're all about being Harvard or Duke. Get over it. We're not and shouldn't try to be. A few kids with God-given talent should be given a chance. And yes, in my mind they ARE different than joe-schmo that barely made it to class with nothing else to do but get high. An athlete that works his butt off when joe-schmo is chasing tail shouldn't be treated the same. PERIOD. These kids are doing a full-time job. If they meet the minimums, let them freaking compete. If they fail, they fail, but at least give them a chance. Otherwise, ECU will. Idiots and elitists rule, it appears.

[Williams-Brice]

Spurrier's not going anywhere because the school will alter it's policy.

Sorenson is not going anywhere because he's trying to improve the standards of this academic institution....not undermine Spurrier and the football team.

The Board of Trustees is routinely full of %$^*, because the Board of Trustees has been full of $%*# for years. They'll say whatever they think the public wants to hear, but they're not so stupid as to fire Sorenson over two kids not getting into school.

The problem is not that these kids were rejected. The problem is that they were notified so absurdly late in the process and that there was no definitive cutoff that these kids knew they needed to make. USC's statement today also pointed out that the football program isn't entirely innocent in this regard. They waited to get all the transcripts and scores to the committee. Perhaps if they would have been more on top of things these kids would have known a few weeks ago that they were denied admission.

The end result will either be lowering of standards again (I really hope not) or the establishment of a clear minimum these kids need to meet in order to gain admittance. That and the process will be expedited to make sure the kids know earlier.

Also worth noting...haven't we failed to meet standards in the APR? So shouldn't we be avoiding kids that the university seriously questions whether they can make the grade or not?

Once again, perfectly said. Spurrier and admissions need to meet in the middle. All that is needed here is, as you perfectly put it, a clear minimum.

Every student who is accepted or wait-listed has their final grades reviewed in the summer after their final semester in high school. It's no different for the athletes. If the grades and scores get to the school late in the process, then they're going to get a late response. It seems like 98% of the people who have an opinion here are just automatically siding with football because Steve Spurrier can't possibly say anything wrong. The truth is that the football office isn't innocent here.

Coach Spurrier even placed some of the blame on himself yesterday, but people aren't willing to read that portion of his comments. When some of his signees didn't get in last year, he should have brought this up at that point to avoid this from ever happening. It's pretty clear he was upset with himself here, too.

[GamecockDieHard]

Let me know what his punishment is. They won't repremand Sorensen, and they shouldn't. Innovista is far more important than the football program. Let's hope the BOT understands that. I'm sure they do.

W-B, I think you've stumbled onto the wrong board. You were looking for InnovistaTalk.com or Isn'tSorensenAPeach.com:laugh:

Here, you've got people that are passionate about football, not what new building they're putting up on Blossom Street.

[Williams-Brice]

If they fail, they fail, but at least give them a chance.

If they fail, they fail . . . and we lose scholarships, and people blast Spurrier and Sorensen for letting in marginal students and taking a risk that came back to bite us in the butt.

[GamecockDieHard]

If they fail, they fail . . . and we lose scholarships, and people blast Spurrier and Sorensen for letting in marginal students and taking a risk that came back to bite us in the butt.

3 out of 85. Wow, I see your point. But honestly, I think everyone has a few that are marginal. Now if we had 10 or 15, then you may actually have a valid argument. As it is, you don't.

[Williams-Brice]

W-B, I think you've stumbled onto the wrong board. You were looking for InnovistaTalk.com or Isn'tSorensenAPeach.com:laugh:

Here, you've got people that are passionate about football, not what new building they're putting up on Blossom Street.

I'm a bigger fan of football than I am of research, believe me. BELIEVE me. I have done research (unless it was for a project/paper) for a day in my life. However, I am objective enough to realize that there are bigger things at stake here. Like solving the world's problems, creating thousands of new jobs, and bringing many, many millions of dollars to the city of Columbia's economy.

Don't question my passion for football. It's what brought me to Columbia. However, it's what's going up on Blossom Street (and ranging to Gervais Street and the river) that will keep me here.

[lacene]

Am i getting that the USC BOT have issued a response to all this? If so, is there a link??

[Williams-Brice]

3 out of 85. Wow, I see your point. But honestly, I think everyone has a few that are marginal. Now if we had 10 or 15, then you may actually have a valid argument. As it is, you don't.

Well, then you throw into the equation that Dakota Walker and Matt Raysor have decided to transfer. That counts against the APR. Then you've got 8 guys who can't practice at least the first two practices. Obviously, there are multiple guys on our team that continuously put their academic eligibility in jeopardy.

I'm not saying they shouldn't make special cases. They absolutely should. These aren't normal students, and flagship state institutions should be set up to help students who may not otherwise get a chance. I'm not arguing that. I'm 100% for that. However, you do have to be very careful with who you make special cases for.

[Williams-Brice]

Am i getting that the USC BOT have issued a response to all this? If so, is there a link??

No, they haven't issued a statement, but I think one trustee made a public comment.

[GamecockDieHard]

I'm a bigger fan of football than I am of research, believe me. BELIEVE me. I have done research (unless it was for a project/paper) for a day in my life. However, I am objective enough to realize that there are bigger things at stake here. Like solving the world's problems, creating thousands of new jobs, and bringing many, many millions of dollars to the city of Columbia's economy.

Don't question my passion for football. It's what brought me to Columbia. However, it's what's going up on Blossom Street (and ranging to Gervais Street and the river) that will keep me here.

So, you're objective and I'm not....You're saving the world at the same time that you're more passionate for football than anyone else....at the same time you're saving Columbia (probably with Hydrogen Fuel Cell Technology - which is a lottery ticket at best) and I should never question anything? Is that about right? Whatever you say next will be the last word. We're going nowhere here. We just disagree.

[GTmorris1970]

Studying and researching Spurrier like I have over the last 3 years, I believe his comments on blaming himself were very tongue in cheek. He has to do that. He has no choice if he ever wants to make amends with the people of North Carolina and Florida. And for anyone to say I don't believe Spurrier can ever say anything wrong, hopefully that was a joke. He was obviously mislead by Bowtie and associates on exactly what the policy was. He made his point very clear. If they pass the NCAA standards, they are in, or he goes elsewhere. No minced words there. I have read around, asked around, and found out what I could on Mr. Sorenson as well. I will side with the honest guy every time, whether Spurrier or anyone else. I'm sure Spurrier is well aware of his dealings, or misdealings at Alabama and his alleged thoughts on college athletics in general. What SOS did yesterday was genius. Probably knowing that Andrew rarely follows through on what he says, he took Sorenson's promise to the national media. If some of you are saying the BOT would let Spurrier go and keep Sorenson, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I simply don't share that opinion. College football is big business. Brings in millions of dollars. The BOT nor the Carolina alumni, except for maybe a select few, would never allow that to happen. You have seen the high rollers giving money hand over fist since Spurrier came here. Politics and money talk.

[Williams-Brice]

I meant to say that I haven't done research a day in my life unless it was for a project/paper. I also never said you weren't objective. I also never said I was saving the world. I also never said I was more passionate for football than anyone else. I also never said I was saving Columbia. I also never said you shouldn't question anything. So, no, what you said is not about right.

I'd be glad to make this the last word because you have taken what I've said, gotten defensive, and completely tried to make it sound like I was blasting you, which I wasn't trying to do. It's no longer a debate. You last post was an attempt to turn it into a pissing match.

[lacene]

So, you're objective and I'm not....You're saving the world at the same time that you're more passionate for football than anyone else....at the same time you're saving Columbia (probably with Hydrogen Fuel Cell Technology - which is a lottery ticket at best) and I should never question anything? Is that about right? Whatever you say next will be the last word. We're going nowhere here. We just disagree.

I think you're getting carried away with WB's comments, GDH. I don't read any of that in his posts....

[OmahaBound]

The Innovista project is more important to the long-term success of the University of South Carolina and this state than the Gamecock football program. Football is a great supplement to the school's income, but the money being donated would pale in comparison to the grants coming in to USC if even 10% of future Innovista projects reap benefits. I know that really doesn't have anything to do with these two kids being denied admission but I just want to make that perfectly clear. Sorenson is doing a great job so far.

I came to USC because I felt the honors program was outstanding and the scholarships were enticing. When I called UNC to decline my offer of admittance they told me all the great things they had heard about the honors program and how they understood my position. If it had been the standard program I probably would not have gone to USC....but that is changing. USC is rising in the world of public education and the last 5 years have seen this school's potential skyrocket. Like it or not, Sorenson is the man most responsible for this rise. I really liked Palms but he was satisfied with being average.

Has Sorenson been perfect? No. Did he screw this up some? Absolutely. Does he deserve to be fired or punished any more severely than a warning/stern talking to? I don't know how I could type 'NO' emphatically enough to demonstrate my thoughts on the matter.

WB, I would have given you +rep about 10 times by now but I need to spread it around more before I can.

[Williams-Brice]

I love you . . . In a strictly "Go Gamecocks" kinda way.

[OmahaBound]

I love you . . . In a strictly "Go Gamecocks" kinda way.

Well you get even more +rep for that!:laugh:

Here's the update to the story in tomorrow's paper...

The State | 08/07/2007 | Recruit denial timing causes collision course (http://www.thestate.com/sports/story/139280.html)

Recruit denial timing causes collision course

STEVE SPURRIER SWAM into dangerous waters Sunday when he challenged USC over its admissions policies. Fortunately, by Monday he had found a better place to swim by saying that his major complaint is about the timing of admission denials.

Here is the bottom line on the furor caused by the university’s recent decision to deny admission to two prospective football players: On one side is a football program attempting to reach never-before-attained heights. On the other is an academic institution striving to establish itself as being of the highest quality. Occasionally, the two are certain to collide.

When the collision occurs, a solution must be found that satisfies both sides’ desires. In this case, Spurrier says he and his staff need to know earlier in the recruiting process if a prospective athlete will be admitted under university standards.

President Andrew Sorensen has informed Spurrier that attempts will be made to serve Spurrier’s — and all USC coaches’ — needs in that area. It is important to note, though, that by not backing down on his decision to deny admission to two prospective athletes, Sorensen reiterated that USC will remain an academic institution above an athletic entertainment venue.

“President Sorensen has said we would try to refine the process to be able to get the coaches better guidance and clarifications on individual students earlier in the process, so that these timing situations do not become critical for the student-athlete as well as for the coaches and their teams,” said university spokesman Russ McKinney, who was speaking Monday for a vacationing Sorensen.

Spurrier said his staff needs to have a better idea in December or January about prospective athletes who are not likely to meet USC’s standards for admission. Otherwise, USC coaches are put in a compromising position of telling athletes they have a scholarship when they might not.

“You recruit a kid, signs with you, doesn’t want to go anywhere else,” Spurrier said Sunday. “Then you tell him (he has not been admitted). How’d you like to be that kid? How’d you like to be that kid? Two of these kids had bought South Carolina T-shirts, sweatshirts.”

No one would argue that promising a scholarship and then pulling it at the 11th hour is bad business. Occasionally, that practice cannot be avoided because, like many schools, including Clemson, Arkansas and Tennessee, the standards for admission are different than the minimum allowed by the NCAA.

Also, many times there is no way for a school to know in December or January whether a prospective football player will be eligible. Many high school athletes take the SAT numerous times, occasionally late into the summer. Often, the necessary transcripts and paperwork are not seen by a review committee until the summer months.

If an early screening of transcripts is done in December or January — before National Signing Day — and the committee informs Spurrier that several recruits are not likely to be accepted, the onus then will fall on the coach to either back off the recruit or inform him that he might not be admitted under USC’s admission standards.

USC, like every school, has a special admissions committee. These committees have been thrust more into the spotlight in recent years because of the changing NCAA standards for admission. When the NCAA switched several years ago to a sliding scale that balanced standardized test scores with grade-point average, red flags began waving on transcripts across the country.

The NCAA began investigating the legitimacy of high schools, and even declared that transcripts from some of those schools were no longer acceptable. There was a surge of soaring, senior-year grade-point averages. More importantly to the process, the NCAA now penalizes a college program with a loss of scholarships for any athlete who does not graduate from its school.

In short, there is a new culture in college athletics. It is imperative to NCAA member institutions that academics become a part of the college experience for athletes, otherwise there is a penalty to pay down the road.

“The culture has not caught up to the inevitability,” said Eric Hyman, USC’s athletics director.

As a result of this emerging culture change, there exists a greater scrutiny of prospective athletes. You should know that the USC faculty senate allows Sorensen 100 special admissions every school year. For the incoming freshman class, Sorensen gave the OK to 74, the majority of whom were athletes, according to McKinney. Of the athletes, most are football and men’s basketball players.

It might not seem this way, but the special admissions committee, and in essence Sorensen, is doing a favor to coaches and their programs by denying admission to the handful of athletes each year who are deemed too great a risk.

Coaches counter that those denied athletes will turn around and play for the competition. Give it time, and those schools will pay the price. Those schools eventually will lose scholarships because their athletes are not graduating.

It is a common misconception that the special admissions committee works to prevent athletes from gaining admission. According to a former member of the committee, nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, he said, the committee is charged with attempting to gain admission for all candidates who are reviewed.

There is a rather simple formula that the committee uses in reviewing a case. It considers grade-point average, SAT scores, what high school a student attended and what classes the athlete took. Then the committee attempts to predict whether a prospective student can be successful in college.

There is one other part of the formula: The culture of the program the prospective athlete is attempting to join. In the case of Spurrier’s football program, the committee has been cognizant of the coach’s emphasis on academics. Spurrier demands that his players attend class, and his team posted the highest grade-point average this past spring of any football squad in USC history.

In Spurrier’s first three recruiting classes, Sorensen overturned a few rejections by the special admissions committee. It is understandable that Spurrier believed every recruit would get the OK from Sorensen. But it did not happen in these two cases.

I have every bit of faith in Spurrier’s coaching ability that he can still build a championship program at USC without a couple of recruits every three seasons or so. Now, with a promise from Sorensen that the timetable for denying prospects admission will be tweaked, there is every reason to believe Spurrier will not again be put in position of misleading recruits.

Still, while this compromise is sure to calm the waters, the continuing growth of academics and athletics at USC guarantees some troubled waters ahead.

[Dr. Pepper]

I am with WB on this one DieHard. You obviously have a bee in your bonnett concerning Sorenson for some reason. You don't have to like him or agree with him. You are entitled to your opinion.

I, too, love USC football, and I think we have the best coach in the nation. I hope he stays with us 10+ years. This is not about choosing sides - Spurrier v. Sorenson. This is about raising the bar athletically and academically. I think we are succeeding in both areas.

[gamecockvic]

The word for all of this is integrety. Everyone wants to have integrety. The University wants to stay true to the standards it has set for today (in fact, they will continue to raise the standards). Spurrier wants to be known as a man who is true to his words. Sometimes, there will be conflict within a system as large and complex as a University. These are grown men. They will work through this.

Doc

I appreciate what you bring here and usually agree with you. However, wouldn't real "integrity" require that ALL students face the same scrutiny concerning admission? The "Special" Admissions Committee, by its name alone, gives preferential treatment. I don't have a problem with that because no rational person believes athletes go through the same process as non-athletes. Within reason, whether these players are admitted or not does not affect our academic standing.

One question I have is whether the students Dr. Sorenson approved after rejection from the committee in Spurrier's past classes are doing well academically. If so, perhaps the committee and the reviewing persons are judging too harshly this year. As I understand it, the committee is designed to predict whether a student will make it at Carolina, which is certainly not an exact science.

I hope this is resolved soon before other students are harmed and we look as silly as Clem Tech did over this same issue.

[USC66]

The ones from Spurrier's first class were both starters last year, and the football team just recently posted it's highest GPA ever. The point to me is simply this. We can either have higher standards than our competition, and stay mediocre in football forever more and shut up about it, or you can put SOS, who they hired to win football games, on an even playing field with the rest of the SEC and have the best of both worlds. SOS has already proven he can get it done on the academic front with the football team. Carolina is not Harvard, nor will it ever be. Sorenson has shown from his previous stops he does not always hold true to his word, and would probably love nothing more than to stick it to Spurrier. He has picked the wrong Ball Coach. I feel pretty sure, hearing from several insiders to the situation, that Sorenson has already been pulled behind the curtain and told what kind of fire he is playing with, and to stop it. I could care less what Sorenson has on his mind, and I never said refusing two students was what he had on his mind. He made one of the best football coaches in history look and feel like a liar. Here is my opinion. Spurrier is a man of integrity and truth. Sorenson is a man of Sorenson. Go with who you choose. Truth and integrity always get my vote.

If people want pretty buildings and landscape around Columbia, here is an idea. Take a few bulldozers to WB. That will give some extra land for a few Palmetto trees and a couple of cute buildings. I'm not trying to be cute or arrogant here, but for God sakes people. Does this univerisity want to win football games or not? You hire one of the best coaches of all time, and then cut his legs out from under him? I have only lived here since 98, but I can see why SC has always been mediocre. Fans, administrators, nor anyone else can get on the same page.

Why are these other schools so successful? Because they are all on a level playing field, recruit athletes, and compete. They also expect to win. From the President, to the coach, to the player, to the fan. They are on the same page. Look at where the schools with higher standards end up in football every year. Look at where SC ends up in football every year. Either be a Duke Vanderbilt imitator, or a national football powerhouse in a few years. Simple as that.

[GTmorris1970]

Sorry, I wrote the above post. Was logged in under USC66.

[OmahaBound]

Convenient how you left Florida out of your list of schools with higher academic standards, GT.

[Williams-Brice]

Arkansas and Tennessee, too.

[GTmorris1970]

Convenient how you left Florida out of your list of schools with higher academic standards, GT.

I have no idea what Florida's standards admission standards are. I bet Spurrier was made well aware ahead of time however.

[The Ramp]

Arkansas and Tennessee, too.

ark and tenn aren't that great academically. vandy, flor, uga, bama, and aub are our best schools (in order) according to US News & Report. the rest aren't even considered Tier II schools.

[OmahaBound]

ark and tenn aren't that great academically. vandy, flor, uga, bama, and aub are our best schools (in order) according to US News & Report. the rest aren't even considered Tier II schools.

the point is that they have higher academic standards because they're trying to change that....much like we are.

[OmahaBound]

I have no idea what Florida's standards admission standards are. I bet Spurrier was made well aware ahead of time however.

so what is your problem then? is it that we have higher than required academic standards or is it that the kids weren't told early enough?

if it's simply a timing issue then WE AGREE!! spurrier changed the way he phrased the issue today and is now saying his only problem is the timing and that's perfectly understandable. the school is working to change that!

[GTmorris1970]

so what is your problem then? is it that we have higher than required academic standards or is it that the kids weren't told early enough?

if it's simply a timing issue then WE AGREE!! spurrier changed the way he phrased the issue today and is now saying his only problem is the timing and that's perfectly understandable. the school is working to change that!

I just noticed that. That was clearly not what he said Sunday. He said specifically if we continued to coach here, the university would accept athletes cleared by the NCAA. I just hope Sorenson sticks with him on this.

[The Ramp]

the point is that they have higher academic standards because they're trying to change that....much like we are.

what are these alledged "higher academic standards" you speak of?

j/k

my bad..i misread

[Williams-Brice]

I just hope Sorenson sticks with him on this.

He will. All of us are just now catching wind of this, but all of this went down privately after Arkee Smith was denied admission last week. It's already been hashed out by the people who matter. The only people talking about it are people like us.

[Dr. Pepper]

66, you obviously have problems with Sorenson as well. Whatever you want to think is OK with me. I just disagree with your take on him.

I also think that we are on a level playing field. From what I can tell, this happens almost everywhere. There is always going to be a couple of recruits who are hanging by a thread and sometimes the thread snaps. Spurrier just wants it to happen sooner than later.

Actually, we might not be on a level playing field. The SEC is blessed with an abundance of coaches that are head and shoulders above the others. Spurrier, Saban, Richt, Meyer, Turbeville...A lot of good fishermen fishing the same waters.

I do wish that this had stayed an internal matter though. It appears that they have already worked things out.

[gamecockvic]

He will. All of us are just now catching wind of this, but all of this went down privately after Arkee Smith was denied admission last week. It's already been hashed out by the people who matter. The only people talking about it are people like us.

That's the best news I have heard on this. We would all like more positive news and less negative.

[GTmorris1970]

66, you obviously have problems with Sorenson as well. Whatever you want to think is OK with me. I just disagree with your take on him.

I also think that we are on a level playing field. From what I can tell, this happens almost everywhere. There is always going to be a couple of recruits who are hanging by a thread and sometimes the thread snaps. Spurrier just wants it to happen sooner than later.

Actually, we might not be on a level playing field. The SEC is blessed with an abundance of coaches that are head and shoulders above the others. Spurrier, Saban, Richt, Meyer, Turbeville...A lot of good fishermen fishing the same waters.

I do wish that this had stayed an internal matter though. It appears that they have already worked things out.

Hey my friend. It was me who wrote that post. I was accidentally logged in under 66. I also respect everyone's opinion on Sorenson. I have my reasons for my opinion, and you have yours. I respect that.

Spurrier does not think we are on a level playing field, and it was confirmed by Scott Hood today that other than Vanderbilt, most all, if not all SEC schools have the same admissions requirements. He also pointed out Spurrier is WELL aware of the requirements of all SEC schools. He simply ask the university to put him on an even playing field as far as recruiting is concerned. And, anytime you make SOS look or feel untrustworthy he is going to lash out. I will say this. Spurrier knows Sorenson and company better than any of us, and there were several comments he made that were to me clearly a shot across the bow of someone. It was him IMO. I am aware this has all been hashed out, but I'm not sure Spurrier trust Sorenson any more than many other people trust him. Perhaps that is why he put it out to the national media. Sorenson now has no choice but to stick to his word. It could have been a shot across Hyman's bow as well.

Although Spurrier is certainly no god, he is well aware of how to play the system, and he knows the consequences of Carolina allowing him to leave. He knows MOST Carolina fans want to build a powerhouse here, and he knows he has TONS more support than Sorenson ever will. He is not afraid of being fired or anything else. He is a college football celebrity. He can go almost anywhere he chooses. He knows that, and they know that. If they want to keep him, they need to keep him happy. He loves it here. Don't screw it up.

[USC66]

66, you obviously have problems with Sorenson as well. Whatever you want to think is OK with me. I just disagree with your take on him.



Sorry Dr.P. I have to learn to log out when I post here at work. I and GTMorris sometimes use the same computer here at work.

[Williams-Brice]

Did anyone else know that Sorensen, ironically, was the provost at the University of Florida when Spurrier was there in the early 1990's? I think the trust between the two is there. Obviously, there is some newfound frustration, but this is just a bump in the road.

[lacene]

Williams-Brice, what are your thoughts about this article:

USC football heavy with special admits
84 percent of Spurrier's recruits in that category

Published: Tuesday, August 7, 2007 - 2:03 pm


By Rick Scoppe
STAFF WRITER
rscoppe@greenvillenews.com



COLUMBIA -- While coach Steve Spurrier has complained about the process, the University of South Carolina's special admissions committee has given the football coach's recruits a lot of consideration and approved a large number of them in his three years at the school.

"That'd be accurate,'" Provost Mark Becker said Monday.

Spurrier's first three recruiting classes include 63 special admits -- 84 percent of the players admitted -- according to figures supplied by the athletic department. NCAA rules allow Division I programs to bring in 25 players each year.

Spurrier's first class featured 23 special admits. There were 22 in 2006-07 and 18 in 2007-08. The latter number could go up if any players enroll in January, said Val Sheley, senior associate athletic director.

GreenvilleOnline.com -USC-USC football heavy with special admits - (8/7/2007) (http://greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070807/SPORTS0102/708070382/1026)

This sounds like Spurrier already gets quite a bit of assistance from the admissions committee.....

[LedCock]

"Spurrier's first three recruiting classes include 63 special admits -- 84 percent of the players admitted -- according to figures supplied by the athletic department. NCAA rules allow Division I programs to bring in 25 players each year."

I would bet that many of those numbers include January and Summer Session enrollees. Because that's not a normal time frame for Freshmen to start.

[OmahaBound]

"Spurrier's first three recruiting classes include 63 special admits -- 84 percent of the players admitted -- according to figures supplied by the athletic department. NCAA rules allow Division I programs to bring in 25 players each year."

I would bet that many of those numbers include January and Summer Session enrollees. Because that's not a normal time frame for Freshmen to start.

Probably not...I think it's more of an issue where most have solidly passed NCAA standards but have not met the expectations for your typical incoming freshman. For instance, the avg. SAT at USC is now almost 1200. Therefore a kid with a 3.0 GPA and a 960 SAT would easily pass NCAA standards, but would very unlikely be admitted based on academics alone.

[GTmorris1970]

From what insiders have been saying since last night, this thing is still far from over, and Spurrier is still hot.

[DELTOR]

I'm confused with the whole Antonio Allen thing. When we went after Allen and Lecorn, wasn't it Lecorn who was 50/50 on getting in? So Lecorn is in now, but not Allen? Someone know any specifics of what the heck happened there?

[OmahaBound]

I'm confused with the whole Antonio Allen thing. When we went after Allen and Lecorn, wasn't it Lecorn who was 50/50 on getting in? So Lecorn is in now, but not Allen? Someone know any specifics of what the heck happened there?

Allen's test score didn't make that cut. I'm not sure though whether it was a situation of his GPA falling and therefore his score was no longer good enough or if he was close enough to passing on previous attempts that it was assumed he would make the cut with another attempt or two.