Donovan's Coup?

[gatorunvrsty]

Well, it looks like there's a method to his madness, after all. By deflecting questions concerning a move to UK, BD has made sure UK doesn't hire someone who can recruit against him for Patterson's services. Genius. By the time he announces his new contract at our celebration Friday, he'll have gotten his commitment from PP. He'll be in Huntington tonight doing just that, as well as endorsing Donnie Jones for their coaching job. He's not going to make his announcement until he's got PP; and the only people he's had discussions with are Machen and Foley. The only way they pull it off is if UF officials play along, like they're actually worried. It's common knowledge that PP is the last piece of a puzzle that will bring a Top 3 class to UF. BD wants him; and knows he'll continue to have a shot at NC's for the next several years at UF with his incoming players. UK's team ranking on the Top 25 recruiting lists? Nowhere to be found. All of the "basketball schools" have great incoming classes again this year, except UK. He'll have all his business wrapped up by the time he leaves on vacation. So, I don't expect to hear anything about his contract until the last minute; and, he still hasn't even talked to anyone at UK, according to the Lexington Herald-Leader. Kentucky.com | 04/04/2007 | Donovan plans to stay put, but ... (http://www.kentucky.com/276/story/33788.html) Now, that's what I call a coup.

[Kevhugh]

Easy...winning the NC again goes a lot further to recruiting PP to Florida over Kentucky. I'm beginning to wonder what is going to happen when this awesome streak of national championships ends for the Gators. Some Gator fans are getting such big heads it will be a long way down.

[shanksta13]

Easy...winning the NC again goes a lot further to recruiting PP to Florida over Kentucky. I'm beginning to wonder what is going to happen when this awesome streak of national championships ends for the Gators. Some Gator fans are getting such big heads it will be a long way down.

No, we know that this type of success is rare, if not completely unheard of. Trust me we are pretty good about accepting reality and we generally have realistic expectations for our teams. I don't think any Florida fans will tell you that we expect next year to be a terrific basketball season for us or that we will once again compete for the National Title. Next year, I think most Gator fans would be thrilled with an SEC East Championship in football, although I think that will be pretty difficult to attain next year. We are enjoying the success while it is here and you certainly can't fault us for that.

[gatorunvrsty]

Easy...winning the NC again goes a lot further to recruiting PP to Florida over Kentucky. I'm beginning to wonder what is going to happen when this awesome streak of national championships ends for the Gators. Some Gator fans are getting such big heads it will be a long way down.

Hardly. Things like this don't happen very often. Check that... things like this have never happened. No school has won the last 3 consecutive major sport NC's. We have wallowed in obscurity for decades; and may very well have to do it again. So, while we have an opportunity to crow, we're doing it. Some of us are old enough to have been fans during the lean years. We still remember the sick feeling of the UF/UGA weekend. We still remember going to home basketball games with less than 1000 fans. We support our school through thick and thin. We're thick right now, and I'll not apologize for making the most of it. We're not bashing your teams; we're rejoicing over the success of ours. Grow up.:glare:

[OmahaBound]

Well, it looks like there's a method to his madness, after all....

For all your talk of UK classlessness wouldn't purposely trying to sabotage another school by stringing them along as you suggest be just as classless if not moreso? Yes recruiting is competitive, but I certainly think that would be a classless approach to it if it were true.

HOWEVER I seriously doubt that Donovan is playing with UK like your post suggests. I simply think that he's refusing to outright deny interest in UK because he does respect their program and his past in Lexington and simply wants to give them an opportunity to talk to him...though he sees it as HIGHLY unlikely they'll be able to sway him to leave. Plus there's the added bonus of making sure that his raise from UF will be as large as possible when the renegotiation begins.

I have a good bit of respect for Donovan, and really don't think he would play dirty with UK for PP. He doesn't have to anyway. He's not going anywhere, but I also have faith he's not simply using this situation to help UF and hurt UK.

As an aside, GU...how do you justify continually ragging on UK's poor recruiting class and lack of talent on campus yet claim that UK's unhappiness with Tubby was unreasonable?

Historic program + Long-term coach + Average results historically + Average talent and no signs of change = legitimately upset fanbase.

I don't blame Tubby for leaving that situation at all...especially since next year probably would not have been much better and he certainly would have been fired then. But I also don't blame UK fans for being very unhappy with their recent history.

[shanksta13]

As an aside, GU...how do you justify continually ragging on UK's poor recruiting class and lack of talent on campus yet claim that UK's unhappiness with Tubby was unreasonable?

Historic program + Long-term coach + Average results historically + Average talent and no signs of change = legitimately upset fanbase.

I don't blame Tubby for leaving that situation at all...especially since next year probably would not have been much better and he certainly would have been fired then. But I also don't blame UK fans for being very unhappy with their recent history.

I think GatorU tends to get a little bit caught up in defending our Gators. I could be wrong, but I think what GatorU is getting at is the way the fans treated Tubby Smith, not the fact that they were upset with his performance. Personally, I don't really have any opinion on the matter, as I haven't seen any hard facts that he was treated poorly or been in Lexington to experience the poor treatment first hand. However, I do think that GatorU meant that the fans treatment of Tubby, regardless of his performance, was unnacceptable and classless, NOT their disappointment with him.

[OmahaBound]

I think GatorU tends to get a little bit caught up in defending our Gators. I could be wrong, but I think what GatorU is getting at is the way the fans treated Tubby Smith, not the fact that they were upset with his performance. Personally, I don't really have any opinion on the matter, as I haven't seen any hard facts that he was treated poorly or been in Lexington to experience the poor treatment first hand. However, I do think that GatorU meant that the fans treatment of Tubby, regardless of his performance, was unnacceptable and classless, NOT their disappointment with him.

Well that would certainly be fair, though I would be curious what classless treatment he received. Not saying I doubt it, just that like you I haven't heard any specifics. Message board bantor doesn't count in my opinion since that's basically true on 50% of fan sites for any program (except for UF now since you greedy bastards are winning everything :laugh: ) and much moreso when expectations are high.

[gatorunvrsty]

For all your talk of UK classlessness wouldn't purposely trying to sabotage another school by stringing them along as you suggest be just as classless if not moreso? Yes recruiting is competitive, but I certainly think that would be a classless approach to it if it were true.

HOWEVER I seriously doubt that Donovan is playing with UK like your post suggests. I simply think that he's refusing to outright deny interest in UK because he does respect their program and his past in Lexington and simply wants to give them an opportunity to talk to him...though he sees it as HIGHLY unlikely they'll be able to sway him to leave. Plus there's the added bonus of making sure that his raise from UF will be as large as possible when the renegotiation begins.

I have a good bit of respect for Donovan, and really don't think he would play dirty with UK for PP. He doesn't have to anyway. He's not going anywhere, but I also have faith he's not simply using this situation to help UF and hurt UK.

As an aside, GU...how do you justify continually ragging on UK's poor recruiting class and lack of talent on campus yet claim that UK's unhappiness with Tubby was unreasonable?

Historic program + Long-term coach + Average results historically + Average talent and no signs of change = legitimately upset fanbase.

I don't blame Tubby for leaving that situation at all...especially since next year probably would not have been much better and he certainly would have been fired then. But I also don't blame UK fans for being very unhappy with their recent history.

No, I wouldn't say it was classless. First, everyone is looking at this situation like 2 schools are competing for BD's services. They're not. BD is the coach at UF. He doesn't owe UK anything, and they haven't even made a job offer, yet. He can't turn down something he hasn't been offered. It has long been understood by UF fans that he would listen to UK's offer when they finally came to him with one; but would ultimately turn it down. I think he may just be taking advantage of an opportunity. If a coach can get the player he's been pursuing, and prevent his biggest rival from improving their position in the division, that's what they get paid to do. And Donovan gets paid by Florida.

And, I don't think the fans unhappiness was unreasonable because of their recruits. He made a lot of really bad recruiting decisions. It was unreasonable because the man won a NC, the SEC, NCAA tourney games every year, and 20+ games almost every season. And they were downright ugly about how they voiced their displeasure. The man practically took off in the night, for God's sake. To me, it's more about the messenger than the message. UK fans should voice their disapproval, sure; but, that does not mean attacking a man and his family at every opportunity. They were brutal.

[shanksta13]

The man practically took off in the night, for God's sake. To me, it's more about the messenger than the message. UK fans should voice their disapproval, sure; but, that does not mean attacking a man and his family at every opportunity. They were brutal.

That's the word on the streets and on the message boards, but I still haven't heard anything legit, for what it's worth. I think that is a generally perceived idea but there isn't really any way to verify how Tubby was actually treated without having been there or having some kind of incident to back it up.

That's not to say that I don't agree with you, GatorU, or that the Kentucky fans' expectations weren't too high, but we're talking very abstractly when we say that he was mistreated. There simply hasn't been anything concrete brought to the table that says to you: "Tubby Smith was abused in Kentucky."

[azamugg]

again I'll say that I believe did an honorable thing and allowed Tubby to "take off" to save face and if so I applaud them for that

[GatorNation]

No, we know that this type of success is rare, if not completely unheard of. Trust me we are pretty good about accepting reality and we generally have realistic expectations for our teams. I don't think any Florida fans will tell you that we expect next year to be a terrific basketball season for us or that we will once again compete for the National Title. Next year, I think most Gator fans would be thrilled with an SEC East Championship in football, although I think that will be pretty difficult to attain next year. We are enjoying the success while it is here and you certainly can't fault us for that.

Yep. I'd like to get to Altanta next year, but I wouldn't be surprised if UT or UGA got there.

And as far as b-ball goes, I just hope we make the tourney.

[shanksta13]

Yep. I'd like to get to Altanta next year, but I wouldn't be surprised if UT or UGA got there.

And as far as b-ball goes, I just hope we make the tourney.

I agree with it being tough for us to get to Atlanta next year, we have two very tough road games at LSU and South Carolina, but we get Auburn and Tennessee in the Swamp and Georgia at a neutral site. I think it is possible for us to win the SEC East, but not probable and maybe not even likely. I expect South Carolina to compete as much as anyone else for the SEC East next year and Kentucky and Vandy won't be slouches either.

As far as basketball next year, not making the tourney would be a huge disappointment considering Donovan has taken us there for the past nine years. With the talent we will have next year, there is no reason for us not to make the tourney, even inexperience. Billy Donovan is one of the best coaches in college basketball and I definitely think it would be a disappointment not to make the tourney. However, I think winning the SEC or the SEC Tourney will be an extremely tough task and I doubt that we will do either next year. All of this depends on the 04s, but most Gators expect all 4 of them to go pro this year.

[GatorHunter]

Winning all these National Titles does something to you...;) It makes you appreciate what a great job your AD has done in assembling coaching staffs that know how to get it done...

The Gators will be very young on the football field next fall...and if the "Gator Boys" leave as expected...the basketball team will be young as well. We have no thoughts of grandeur when thinking of next season...but we're at the top now...let us enjoy it.

[uscrebel]

Well, it looks like there's a method to his madness, after all. By deflecting questions concerning a move to UK, BD has made sure UK doesn't hire someone who can recruit against him for Patterson's services. Genius. By the time he announces his new contract at our celebration Friday, he'll have gotten his commitment from PP....[snip]... contract until the last minute; and, he still hasn't even talked to anyone at UK, according to the Lexington Herald-Leader.

This is one of the more bizarre theories I have heard since the Kennedy deal in Dallas. .

Take the little yellow pills...they will stop the voices, too.

[gatorunvrsty]

That's the word on the streets and on the message boards, but I still haven't heard anything legit, for what it's worth. I think that is a generally perceived idea but there isn't really any way to verify how Tubby was actually treated without having been there or having some kind of incident to back it up.

That's not to say that I don't agree with you, GatorU, or that the Kentucky fans' expectations weren't too high, but we're talking very abstractly when we say that he was mistreated. There simply hasn't been anything concrete brought to the table that says to you: "Tubby Smith was abused in Kentucky."

I'd say a FIRE TUBBY, NOW! website, horrible message board chatter, and the Dynasty Defender idiot were bad enough; but, you're right, it's only speculation that there were worse instances. I think the fact that UK was expecting him back; and he informed them at the last minute, after securing a position at Minnesota is very telling, though. And when I say abused, I'm referring to the fan abuse; not abuse by the university.

[gatorunvrsty]

This is one of the more bizarre theories I have heard since the Kennedy deal in Dallas. .

Take the little yellow pills...they will stop the voices, too.

That's nothing. If you'd spent an hour on the UK site last week, you'd think aliens had landed.

[shanksta13]

And when I say abused, I'm referring to the fan abuse; not abuse by the university.

I think everyone was pretty clear on that. If anything I felt like Kentucky's Athletic Department didn't want to get rid of Smith, but they were feeling a lot of pressure from the boosters and the fanbase. It's pretty well known that the fanbases at most schools are pretty irrational most of the time and their demands have to be balanced with what is best for the school. The job of the Athletic Director and the Athletic Department is to try to decide what is best for the program without alienating the fanbase. It's usually not an easy task and that is why we Gators are so lucky to have an AD like Jeremy Foley.

[GeauxTo]

This is one of the more bizarre theories I have heard since the Kennedy deal in Dallas. .

Take the little yellow pills...they will stop the voices, too.

Jumping Jehosaphat! We agree on something!:laugh:

[shanksta13]

Jumping Jehosaphat! We agree on something!:laugh:

Wait, wait, wait!!! Did Geaux just make a post without the phrase "Florida is not a basketball school"? I wasn't aware that Billy Donovan had already signed his new contract extension... :laugh:

[gatorunvrsty]

I think everyone was pretty clear on that. If anything I felt like Kentucky's Athletic Department didn't want to get rid of Smith, but they were feeling a lot of pressure from the boosters and the fanbase. It's pretty well known that the fanbases at most schools are pretty irrational most of the time and their demands have to be balanced with what is best for the school. The job of the Athletic Director and the Athletic Department is to try to decide what is best for the program without alienating the fanbase. It's usually not an easy task and that is why we Gators are so lucky to have an AD like Jeremy Foley.

Agreed. I only meant that what I read and heard would have been more than enough to be considered abuse, in my book. I shudder to think what may have happened outside the public eye; like e-mails, letters, phone calls, and threats. I read a post from one poster on CatsPause today who said he'd already sent 6 e-mails to their athletic department, insisting they tell the fans what's going on. That's one guy; and he was encouraging others to follow suit. Another one said he had access to a government search engine; and had gotten Billy Donovan's and Urban Meyer's home addresses and private phone numbers.:ohmy: Are you telling me fans like that couldn't do some damage?

[GeauxTo]

Wait, wait, wait!!! Did Geaux just make a post without the phrase "Florida is not a basketball school"? I wasn't aware that Billy Donovan had already signed his new contract extension... :laugh:

Oh, wait... I forgot...

FLORIDA IS NOT A BASKETBALL SCHOOL
:D

[shanksta13]

Agreed. I only meant that what I read and heard would have been more than enough to be considered abuse, in my book. I shudder to think what may have happened outside the public eye; like e-mails, letters, phone calls, and threats. I read a post from one poster on CatsPause today who said he'd already sent 6 e-mails to their athletic department, insisting they tell the fans what's going on. That's one guy; and he was encouraging others to follow suit. Another one said he had access to a government search engine; and had gotten Billy Donovan's and Urban Meyer's home addresses and private phone numbers.:ohmy: Are you telling me fans like that couldn't do some damage?

Nope not at all. Like I said, I agree that they treated Tubby unfairly due to absurd expectations; I just hadn't seen any hard evidence (I haven't been to these boards myself). In any case, it is probably helping us out in getting Patrick Patterson. Hopefully Donovan can pull him into Florida and stay with us.

I'm kind of surprised that no one has mentioned this possibilty. I know nothing is certain, but if Donovan were to go to Kentucky he could get some monster recruits right away. It's widely believed that if Donovan did go to Kentucky, Nick Calathes would follow (despite his statement that even if Donovan goes to UK he will remain a Gator). It's also possible that Chandler Parsons would follow him there. Patrick Patterson might commit to UK as well as Jai Lucas. That would be a monster class. So to say that "the cupboard is bare" at Kentucky isn't really a valid response in my mind. Obviously that is best case scenario for Kentucky, but I wouldn't say it is completely out of the realm of possibility.

[GeauxTo]

Read my lips...

The Dude is going!
:laugh:

[OmahaBound]

No, I wouldn't say it was classless. First, everyone is looking at this situation like 2 schools are competing for BD's services. They're not. BD is the coach at UF. He doesn't owe UK anything, and they haven't even made a job offer, yet. He can't turn down something he hasn't been offered. It has long been understood by UF fans that he would listen to UK's offer when they finally came to him with one; but would ultimately turn it down. I think he may just be taking advantage of an opportunity. If a coach can get the player he's been pursuing, and prevent his biggest rival from improving their position in the division, that's what they get paid to do. And Donovan gets paid by Florida.

Then I guess it's not classless for Bobby Bowden to tell kids not to let UF know that they've switched to FSU til signing day? Afterall it is not illegal and his only responsibility is to FSU. If he can improve his program while preventing his biggest rival from improving their position then isn't that what he gets paid to do? Bowden gets paid by FSU. ;)

Of course Bowden's actions are classless, as would a coach purposely stringing along another program to leave their coaching vacancy open til he's secured the commitment of a top prospect. The point is moot since I really don't think Donovan is doing this, but I can't help but point out the hint of hypocrisy there.

As for your post about fans on CatPause, I wouldn't take anything you read on any of those rivals sites too seriously. There are going to be nutjobs everywhere, but there's no way to know who's just talking and who actually has been emailing and whatnot. I know it's hard (and we're all guilty of this at times) but try not to let the crazy ones ruin your opinion of the fanbase and organization as a whole because like it or not we all have them.

We really don't know exactly what Tubby had to go through, and we probably never will. I'm sure he never read his UK email and has a secret address where his friends, family, players, etc reach him. My guess is the bulk of the pressure, stress, and irritation over the last few months has been the result of the local and national media dogging him about his job status more than what is on CatPause.

Right now the only coaches in the entire country that don't have at least one or two fans calling for their job are Urban Meyer and Billy D. If 9 years from now either of them haven't come close to another championship and have gone two straight seasons finishing out of the top 25 there will be Gator fans calling for replacements too just like in Tubby's situation. It may not be as many, but they'll be all over the internet.

In conclusion, humans are fickle creatures...it's not just a Kentucky plague.:laugh:

And with that I really need to study, heh...have a good night all.

[gatorunvrsty]

Then I guess it's not classless for Bobby Bowden to tell kids not to let UF know that they've switched to FSU til signing day? Afterall it is not illegal and his only responsibility is to FSU. If he can improve his program while preventing his biggest rival from improving their position then isn't that what he gets paid to do? Bowden gets paid by FSU. ;)

Of course Bowden's actions are classless, as would a coach purposely stringing along another program to leave their coaching vacancy open til he's secured the commitment of a top prospect. The point is moot since I really don't think Donovan is doing this, but I can't help but point out the hint of hypocrisy there.

As for your post about fans on CatPause, I wouldn't take anything you read on any of those rivals sites too seriously. There are going to be nutjobs everywhere, but there's no way to know who's just talking and who actually has been emailing and whatnot. I know it's hard (and we're all guilty of this at times) but try not to let the crazy ones ruin your opinion of the fanbase and organization as a whole because like it or not we all have them.

We really don't know exactly what Tubby had to go through, and we probably never will. I'm sure he never read his UK email and has a secret address where his friends, family, players, etc reach him. My guess is the bulk of the pressure, stress, and irritation over the last few months has been the result of the local and national media dogging him about his job status more than what is on CatPause.

Right now the only coaches in the entire country that don't have at least one or two fans calling for their job are Urban Meyer and Billy D. If 9 years from now either of them haven't come close to another championship and have gone two straight seasons finishing out of the top 25 there will be Gator fans calling for replacements too just like in Tubby's situation. It may not be as many, but they'll be all over the internet.

In conclusion, humans are fickle creatures...it's not just a Kentucky plague.:laugh:

And with that I really need to study, heh...have a good night all.

Sorry, I just don't see how the two are even similar. Bowden tells kids to lie to coaches of other programs about their commitment. Donovan hasn't even been offered a job, yet; and hasn't been dishonest about anything. Why should he stop recruiting just because UK hasn't found a coach, yet? The way I understand it, now, is that PP has already told BD he'd come play for him if he stayed at UF. Apparently, BD told him he was staying; just like several other recruits have said he did to them.

[OmahaBound]

Sorry, I just don't see how the two are even similar. Bowden tells kids to lie to coaches of other programs about their commitment. Donovan hasn't even been offered a job, yet; and hasn't been dishonest about anything. Why should he stop recruiting just because UK hasn't found a coach, yet? The way I understand it, now, is that PP has already told BD he'd come play for him if he stayed at UF. Apparently, BD told him he was staying; just like several other recruits have said he did to them.

You didn't understand my post. I was saying IF your earlier assertion that Donovan was stringing UK along to assure PP signs with UF and not UK were true... that would be classless just like Bowden's actions. You disagreed that the actions would be classless and that's why I made the comparison of two coaches willfully hurting another program with deceit in order to benefit their program. Basically I was simply responding to your fantasy and disagreeing with you that there would be nothing wrong with it.

In the real world, I don't believe for a second that Donovan is doing what you proposed earlier, nor do I think he is doing anything classless.

[uscrebel]

That's nothing. If you'd spent an hour on the UK site last week, you'd think aliens had landed.


Good point, dude. You are mild by comparison.

[lacene]

Sorry, I just don't see how the two are even similar. Bowden tells kids to lie to coaches of other programs about their commitment. Donovan hasn't even been offered a job, yet; and hasn't been dishonest about anything.


No, I wouldn't say it was classless. First, everyone is looking at this situation like 2 schools are competing for BD's services. They're not. BD is the coach at UF. He doesn't owe UK anything, and they haven't even made a job offer, yet. He can't turn down something he hasn't been offered. It has long been understood by UF fans that he would listen to UK's offer when they finally came to him with one; but would ultimately turn it down. I think he may just be taking advantage of an opportunity.

I'm sorry, could you please repeat your definition of "dishonesty" here again, for me......I can't seem to get anywhere with wikipedia tonight....:mellow:

[azamugg]

Good point, dude. You are mild by comparison.


KA BOOM

did anyone else see "the illusionist"?

[gatorunvrsty]

I'm sorry, could you please repeat your definition of "dishonesty" here again, for me......I can't seem to get anywhere with wikipedia tonight....:mellow:

Obviously, our definitions must differ. I don't see anything wrong or dishonest about listening to a proposal out of respect for a program, and giving it some consideration; before ultimately turning it down. It merely infers that whatever UK has in mind would have to be extraordinary to lure him away. And, money won't be it, because we all know UF can outbid UK.

Total Athletic Contributions (Donations)

Florida $26,896,283 (3rd Nationally)
Kentucky $8,060,667 (37th Nationally)

Florida advantage - 3.3 times

Total Sports Revenue

Florida $77,742,484
Kentucky $54,536,426

Florida Advantage – 1.4 times

In fact, UK boosters must really be coughing up some money; because while UF's athletic department had an overall profit of $4 million, UK's had a loss of $ 1.5 million. Only a few schools actually make money from their sports programs; but, it's clear UF is in a much better financial situation.

[OmahaBound]

I think this thread needs to die and we can take the Donovan discussion to one of the other threads. Maybe my brain is just fried right now but it's getting pretty difficult to tell what people are trying to say with their posts. The original point to the thread was a theory involving manipulating UK, but there's also discussion about him simply listening with no purpose of manipulation. I think people (myself included) are having a difficult time deciphering which theory is being referred back to with each post.