Crisis in Iran

[shanksta13]

Just wondering what everyone thought about the current crisis in Iran over the 15 captured British marines. I recently heard (unconfirmed) that the U.S. had sent 15 military vessels into the surrounding waters. Tony Blair also stated that if action was not taken immediately by Iran, Britain would move into a different "phase".

Just looking for some feedback and healthy discussion on the escalating crisis.

[AU Blaaaaaaaake]

I hope we just nuke the **** out of them. All I know is my Dad is retiring and not getting re-deployed, and our soldiers are tired of being deployed. Just drop the biggest missile we have right in the middle of Iran and turn it into a parking lot.

[timNem]

I hope we just nuke the **** out of them. All I know is my Dad is retiring and not getting re-deployed, and our soldiers are tired of being deployed. Just drop the biggest missile we have right in the middle of Iran and turn it into a parking lot.What branch of the military is your dad in?

[AU Blaaaaaaaake]

What branch of the military is your dad in?

ARMY, field artillery, BC of the 82nd airborne right now

[GeauxTo]

Here's some late stuff...

Blair Warns Iran Standoff Could Escalate... (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070327/D8O4O9000.html)

UK to reveal GPS data... (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/d1ae2f3a-dc93-11db-a21d-000b5df10621.html)

Oil spikes $5 on Mideast rumors... (http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/27/markets/oil_spikes/index.htm?postversion=2007032717)

U.S. Navy Flexes Muscles in Persian Gulf... (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8O4PGNO0&show_article=1)

[shanksta13]

Thanks for the links Geaux, I've already read most of those articles, but I didn't think to post them for other users. Great idea! I want to get a few different opinions before I throw my own out there.

[timNem]

ARMY, field artillery, BC of the 82nd airborne right nowCool, so he is stationed at Ft. Bragg I assume. My dad retired from the 101st Airborne.

[GeauxTo]

Cool, so he is stationed at Ft. Bragg I assume. My dad retired from the 101st Airborne.

My Dad was in the 11th Airborne, which morphed into the 101st and 82nd I think. He was a cadre at the jungle warfare training center in Panama in the mid-1950s.

[AU Blaaaaaaaake]

Cool, so he is stationed at Ft. Bragg I assume. My dad retired from the 101st Airborne.


Sure is, but he's finishing his assignment in a month (as well as completing his Jumpmaster requirements) and he is supposedly getting promoted so we will see how that goes. I think we are going to spend a year at Ft. Mcpherson so he can work as the XO for the general there.

[shanksta13]

Ok, so to get to the question that I was really trying to ask. Does anyone think that this will be another occurence of the hostage situation the Brits encountered in 2004, in which the hostages were threatened but ultimately released without any military measures being taken? Or could this potentially explode into a serious military conflict with devastating consequences for the Brits, the United States or the world? How should Britain go about resolving this conflict and how will Iran respond to any measures taken. So far they seem to remain pretty adamant that the British marines were in Iranian waters and were thus "legal game". However, they also claim that the prisoners are being treated humanely and respectfully. Are these claims legit?

[GeauxTo]

The Iranians continue to play with fire. They know the Brits will bend waaaay over to avoid an armed conflict, but sooner or later, they are going to do something stupid involving Israel, and then it will be on. Israel will jump on them with both feet if they twitch in Tel Aviv's direction.

[timNem]

My Dad was in the 11th Airborne, which morphed into the 101st and 82nd I think. He was a cadre at the jungle warfare training center in Panama in the mid-1950s.I have mountain-biked some of those old jungle training areas and while riding you would come up on little make-shift villages with the bamboo huts and pass by a supposed downed Huey. If your dad was in the 11th then he was most likely a Glider Rider instead of a jumper. I would rather jump from a plane than crash land a glider anyday. Those guys like your had some big kahunas to do that.The 82nd was the first Airborne Division and I believe the 11th was activated in 1943 and I know the 101st was activated in 1942.

[shk999]

This has Lebanon/Isreal 2006 written all over it. Lebanon came across the border and took Isreali soldeirs hostage. Isreal was unable to fully advance on Lebanon because of the UN and powers that be, pretty much all they could do was hold the border and dodge pot shots from rockets. Iran knows that as long as they dont hurt these guys, the UN wont ok a full on assault and they can continue to play their games. Unfortunately, with the way the war in Iraq was handled, I just dont see anybody moving without the UN's approval. I just hope for the safe return of the marines, after that, I hope somebody gets "Dealt With".

[GeauxTo]

http://www.geocities.com/dtbiello/images/11/11_patch.gif http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQB5D!kVGzySRxQdnVZ7zGIWoUXhri!4QpwxfTYw8KtTiQ9T0 EzJJ4TCdl7MLSdOIiWjUi7oi8PA0pBBLlPUiFxoQI7wCYtaOz1 4UgjJCBi60v8QuKfzQA/Knoch-19561.JPG?dc=4675347947781676953

[AU Blaaaaaaaake]

http://www.geocities.com/dtbiello/images/11/11_patch.gif http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQB5D!kVGzySRxQdnVZ7zGIWoUXhri!4QpwxfTYw8KtTiQ9T0 EzJJ4TCdl7MLSdOIiWjUi7oi8PA0pBBLlPUiFxoQI7wCYtaOz1 4UgjJCBi60v8QuKfzQA/Knoch-19561.JPG?dc=4675347947781676953



Wow geaux, thanks for sharing the badass pic, and as old as the photo is you definitely resemble your father thats for sure.

[crimsonnation713]

IMO Iran is doing nothing but giving the world the finger over the sanctions laid out by the U.N. I agree with Geaux in that if they screw with Isreal, they're toast. I hope they do because then they will be outta everybodys hair.

[sgwallin]

Originally emailed to me by a friend in the British Military in charge of an intelligence unit in Afgahnistan:


If you agree with my sentiments please pass on to all in your address book.

Some days ago Iran, illegally kidnapped over a dozen British servicemen. Whether you agree with the Iraq war or not - these men were doing their duty as directed by Tony Blair's government. Because of the ridiculously strict rules of engagement Blair's government puts on them they are effectively fighting with one hand tied behind their back and as a result the servicemen did not attempt to resist their capture.

We have a pretty good idea of what will happen to our servicemen they will be hooded, roughly treated and paraded on Iranian television - all in breach of the Geneva convention. their families are probably and quite rightly worried sick.

What has Blair's response to it been so far? When questioned at a European conference he is at in Germany, by a random journalist he said it was 'unjustified and wrong'.

We look back to the recent episode in Ethiopia and see what a different approach the government had when it was a bunch of civilian political functionaries kidnapped by rebels, there was public condemnation and much talk of sending the SAS in.

One thinks that If Margaret Thatcher were still in power it would be quite different, she would have called an international press conference outside Downing Street and would have been surrounded by her her cabinet colleagues and would have given an ultimatum to Iran to release the soldiers within 24 hours unharmed or face the full wrath of Her Majesty's government. Indeed what is the point of spending 20 Billion pounds of our money on a nuclear deterrent if we can be pushed around by tin pot nations like Iran.

Many of my soldiers and colleagues are so disgusted by this lack of support from their government that are considering signing off.

Regards,
Captain D A Thomas.
HQ ISAF
Afghanistan

[shanksta13]

Originally emailed to me by a friend in the British Military in charge of an intelligence unit in Afgahnistan:


If you agree with my sentiments please pass on to all in your address book.

Some days ago Iran, illegally kidnapped over a dozen British servicemen. Whether you agree with the Iraq war or not - these men were doing their duty as directed by Tony Blair's government. Because of the ridiculously strict rules of engagement Blair's government puts on them they are effectively fighting with one hand tied behind their back and as a result the servicemen did not attempt to resist their capture.

We have a pretty good idea of what will happen to our servicemen they will be hooded, roughly treated and paraded on Iranian television - all in breach of the Geneva convention. their families are probably and quite rightly worried sick.

What has Blair's response to it been so far? When questioned at a European conference he is at in Germany, by a random journalist he said it was 'unjustified and wrong'.

We look back to the recent episode in Ethiopia and see what a different approach the government had when it was a bunch of civilian political functionaries kidnapped by rebels, there was public condemnation and much talk of sending the SAS in.

One thinks that If Margaret Thatcher were still in power it would be quite different, she would have called an international press conference outside Downing Street and would have been surrounded by her her cabinet colleagues and would have given an ultimatum to Iran to release the soldiers within 24 hours unharmed or face the full wrath of Her Majesty's government. Indeed what is the point of spending 20 Billion pounds of our money on a nuclear deterrent if we can be pushed around by tin pot nations like Iran.

Many of my soldiers and colleagues are so disgusted by this lack of support from their government that are considering signing off.

Regards,
Captain D A Thomas.
HQ ISAF
Afghanistan


I do tend to agree with most of the sentiments expressed in the letter. However, we do need to proceed cautiously because it is very hard to tell just who we will upset if we take any military action in the Middle East. I do, however, feel that if the Iranians felt more pressured by the international community as a whole (i.e. the U.N.) they would pretty readily hand over the hostages. In my opinion, the U.N. should not tolerate this type of activity and should be the organization to present the ultimatum to Iran. The entire purpose of the U.N. was to prevent another worldwide war from breaking out. While I do not think that Britain will take military action against Iran, the results if they did could be monumental. Thus, if Britian were to threaten military action in an ultimatum it would force the U.N. to step in. So if Blair had made a stronger move sooner in the process, as Hatcher may have done, the U.N.'s hand would have been forced. At this point, I doubt the U.N. will take any hard line of action, barring any further developments.

[Cianne]

I do, however, feel that if the Iranians felt more pressured by the international community as a whole (i.e. the U.N.) they would pretty readily hand over the hostages.

Just like they readily abandoned their nuclear program when pressured by the international community (i.e. the U.N.) as a whole?

[SeanVol]

I hope we just nuke the **** out of them. All I know is my Dad is retiring and not getting re-deployed, and our soldiers are tired of being deployed. Just drop the biggest missile we have right in the middle of Iran and turn it into a parking lot.

Nah, Cold Fusion Bomb you can build amusement park the day after you detonate it.

[SeanVol]

IMO Iran is doing nothing but giving the world the finger over the sanctions laid out by the U.N. I agree with Geaux in that if they screw with Isreal, they're toast. I hope they do because then they will be outta everybodys hair.

Isreal, did bomb Iraq's nuclear plant 1981.

BBC ON THIS DAY | 7 | 1981: Israel bombs Baghdad nuclear reactor (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/7/newsid_3014000/3014623.stm)

according to this article they did have plans to bomb the Iranian Nuclear Plant '03

Israel ready to bomb Iran N-plant (http://www.rediff.com/us/2003/aug/29iran.htm)

[Cianne]

Nah, Cold Fusion Bomb you can build amusement park the day after you detonate it.

Too bad cold fusion is essentially a myth at the moment.

[Gator2753]

Isreal, did bomb Iraq's nuclear plant 1981.

BBC ON THIS DAY | 7 | 1981: Israel bombs Baghdad nuclear reactor (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/7/newsid_3014000/3014623.stm)

according to this article they did have plans to bomb the Iranian Nuclear Plant '03

Israel ready to bomb Iran N-plant (http://www.rediff.com/us/2003/aug/29iran.htm)

That would have been sweet

[azamugg]

Just like they readily abandoned their nuclear program when pressured by the international community (i.e. the U.N.) as a whole?

yea, pressure from the U.N. and the international community really works!!!

NOT

I think Iran wishes that crew hadnt taken the brits but now they have to posture for image sake

[shanksta13]

yea, pressure from the U.N. and the international community really works!!!

NOT

I think Iran wishes that crew hadnt taken the brits but now they have to posture for image sake

That's exactly the point I'm making. There simply is no such thing as international pressure that actually works. The whole reason the U.N. was created was to prevent scenarios like these from developing into armed conflict. However, the U.N. simply does nothing to promote that goal anymore. We really do need a "World Police", however, it can't be the "Team America World Police". Personally, I think the U.N. should meet in Switzerland, not New York. I also think that the U.N. needs to have its own military force, made up of soldiers from each member country. Then, this force should not be hesitant to enforce any action agreed upon by the U.N. council. Haha, I know perfect world...

[Cianne]

I also think that the U.N. needs to have its own military force, made up of soldiers from each member country.

Maybe they'll be better than the NATO military, but I'd guess not.

[shanksta13]

Maybe they'll be better than the NATO military, but I'd guess not.

It's kind of a moot point because its never going to happen as long as France is a member country...:laugh: sorry Geaux!

[GeauxTo]

It's kind of a moot point because its never going to happen as long as France is a member country...:laugh: sorry Geaux!

Not to worry... I could give two hoots and a holler about France. Cowardice of the 1st rank.

[pc72687]

I do tend to agree with most of the sentiments expressed in the letter. However, we do need to proceed cautiously because it is very hard to tell just who we will upset if we take any military action in the Middle East.

Not sure that is true, most of the countries over there aren't big fans of Iran and wouldn't mind that regime being toppled.

As a member of the military, I wouldn't mind sending Iran a message that might escalate into conflict because they have been killing Americans for years by training and providing funds, weapons, etc. Most of the "insurgents" (if you can call them that since insurgency at its definition is a small organized militia fighting for freedom of some sort) are Iranians and Syrains and are essentially already at war with the US and Britian.

[SeanVol]

Too bad cold fusion is essentially a myth at the moment.

Yeah, If it was a fact the Iraq and Iran would've been a giant amusement park a long time ago.

[Gator2753]

Great Britan wants some support in isolating Iran from trade with the outside world. Also they say if Britan continues to do this they will "dely" the release of the only female captive.
Answer this question. If this happened to the U.S. Navy and they captured 15 of our sailors and we had proof that we didnt leave our designated territory, what do you think would be happening to Iran right now? What would be happening to Iran in a month if they still had our guys?
UK, Iran stand firm in sailors crisis - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03/29/iran.uk.sailors/index.html)

[azamugg]

well I can tell you this, if we attacked and/or attempted to rescue in an aggressive military fashion, the Dems would counter after the fact that Congress and the public had been lied to, that the supposed "kidnap" had been made up to justify an attack

[Neo]

If this happened to the U.S. Navy and they captured 15 of our sailors and we had proof that we didnt leave our designated territory, what do you think would be happening to Iran right now? What would be happening to Iran in a month if they still had our guys?
UK, Iran stand firm in sailors crisis - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03/29/iran.uk.sailors/index.html)



It has happened.....Just not the Iranians.

Remember when the Chinese attacked one of our spy planes in international waters?

Three MIG-28's forced the plane to land in China by damaging the wing of the aircraft and held our USAF personnel hostage for roughly 20+ days.

Don't worry, the SAS will be on the case very soon. :thumpsup:

[crimsonnation713]

Not sure that is true, most of the countries over there aren't big fans of Iran and wouldn't mind that regime being toppled.

As a member of the military, I wouldn't mind sending Iran a message that might escalate into conflict because they have been killing Americans for years by training and providing funds, weapons, etc. Most of the "insurgents" (if you can call them that since insurgency at its definition is a small organized militia fighting for freedom of some sort) are Iranians and Syrains and are essentially already at war with the US and Britian.

pc...I guess you didnt the memo. Iran has nothing to do with terroristic activity. According to their officials.:rolleyes:

[pc72687]

Yeah, I must not have gotten that one or the one where the British sailors confessed and apologized for entering Iranian waters!!;)