Tuberville was right

[Imhotep]

ABC/ESPN/Lou Holtz and the gang despise Tuberville to this day when he unloaded on the BCS and ESPN last year. Both Florida and CUM should thank Tubs for sticking up for the SEC...it's quite possible that Tubs forced the BCS' hand this year. Even the Bama fans are beginning to realize how biased these guys are towards the SEC. This is what Tubs said last year, after AU was left out of yet another BCS bowl.

"It's done," Tuberville said. "The national media, led by ESPN, wants to see Vince Young vs. Matt Leinart in the championship game. It's going to be those two teams unless Texas or USC get upset.


"Last year, they wanted to see the two Heisman Trophy quarterbacks, Jason White and Leinart. After six or seven games, we(AU' undefeated 04 team) were out of it.

"If four teams are undefeated at the end of the season, there should be a playoff. There should've been one last year.(2004) But it's decided already. I don't like it."

He wasn't finished:

"ESPN has gotten so much power lately, it's kinda scary," Tuberville said. "And most of their analysts are coaches who haven't won any games. That's why they're there. I think you know who I'm talking about.(Holtz)


"And Lou Holtz gets on there and talks about what a team has to do win that game, and the guy couldn't beat anybody in our conference.(SEC) These guys will come talk to you and look you straight in the eye and tell you something, then they'll get on the air and say something else.

"ESPN, I'll tell you, I don't have much to do with them anymore."



Seriously, Tuberville isn't the only person to lament the power that ESPN has accrued (with its sister network ABC) in recent years within college football and sports in general. And he certainly isn't the first person to take issue with one of ESPN's analysts. Face it, there's a reason why Gerry DiNardo, Lou Holtz, and Terry Bowden are talking into TV microphones rather than coaches' headsets these days.

[Cianne]

USC-Texas was the right matchup regardless of what he thinks about ESPN and the BCS. It's just sour grapes from him at this point.

[AUFootball24]

USC-Texas was the right matchup regardless of what he thinks about ESPN and the BCS. It's just sour grapes from him at this point.

You know you agree with him, the BCS is BS. You just want to call him classless because of your own sour grapes. He didn't say USC-Texas wasn't the right matchup, he just said it was predetermined pretty much no matter what the other teams do, and he's right.

[Cianne]

Did I call him classless? Didn't think so. Don't think I need to anyway.

[RW13]

No one has to call Tuberville classless, his name is synonymous with it...........

[WallyGoat]

My beef with Tubs is the clock rule. He has done things in the past that I could disagree with, but the clock rule is the only thing that strikes me at the moment. Of course it was the entire NCAA board that approved the rule, so he isn't the only one to blame. He was the first SEC coach (that I can remember) to pioneer a lobby (of sorts) for a play off system.

I have to give him credit for wanting to make things better for the SEC. I can't argee entirely with his approach sometimes, but I agree nonetheless.

I will be the one of the few Bama fans to admit Auburn got the shaft in 2004. They would have matched up to USC far better than the Sooners. The score wouldn't have been 55-19 either. More like 42-38 (insert winner here).

[Imhotep]

Only the bottom feeders of the SEC like Ole Miss could possibly support ESPN/BCS. Oh well, nobody cares about Ole Miss and their miserable football program anyway....because they will never be in a situation to go to a BCS bowl game. Truly sad....

[Cianne]

Oh snap, you got me. I can't have an opinion because of my school preference. Also, where did I say I supported either ESPN or the BCS? I just said the matchup was right.

[AUFootball24]

Did I call him classless? Didn't think so. Don't think I need to anyway.

You saying he's just complaining over sour grapes is just classless in different words, don't play dumb....

[Cianne]

You saying he's just complaining over sour grapes is just classless in different words, don't play dumb....

No it's not, but nice try. There are plenty of examples that could be used for being classless on his part. Complaining about the system is not one of them. However, his incessant whining for votes is borderline.

[WallyGoat]

Oh snap, you got me. I can't have an opinion because of my school preference.

Let him talk. He's an antagonist by nature. Have you read his previous posts?

Ole Miss will hopefully never have to be a BCS contender if they instate a playoff in college football. If Ole Miss ever recruits another Manning-esque player and the types of players they recruited during the Manning era, they'll be back in contention in no time.

[AU Blaaaaaaaake]

Did Tommy actually say those things about Holtz? They are funny, but I can't picture Tommy calling out Ole Man Holtz in the media. Oh well, I'm proud to have a coach that isn't going to sit back and let teams get screwed over by a terrible system (without at least getting a discussion going). Respect him or not, CTT has been and will continue to be a driving force to creating a playoff system, and hes a great coach.

[WallyGoat]

Did Tommy actually say those things about Holtz? They are funny, but I can't picture Tommy calling out Ole Man Holtz in the media. Oh well, I'm proud to have a coach that isn't going to sit back and let teams get screwed over by a terrible system (without at least getting a discussion going). Respect him or not, CTT has been and will continue to be a driving force to creating a playoff system, and hes a great coach.

Can't disagree with his ambition concerning a playoff. Even Urban has jumped aboard the rebuilding bus. Maybe Slive will take these two coaches lobbying into consideration and help structure a playoff.

Auburn coach or not, Tubs is right about determining the real #1 via playoff (no matter how much I dislike him).

[Imhotep]

Yes, he actually said those things...he embarrassed Holtz and the the rest of those bums at ESPN. Obviously, they didn't like it, but everything he said is true.
If Mike Slive wasn't the head of the BCS this year, I truly believe that Michigan would be in the BCSNCG. Tubs and CUM are the only SEC coaches that I've ever heard challenge these bums. Hopefully more SEC coaches will do the same.

[Imhotep]

Well, Well, take a look at this....Loyd Carr guarantees a playoff in the future...It's amazing how the headlines have changed.

Carr convinced playoff in BCS's future
Associated Press

ANN ARBOR, Mich. -- Michigan coach Lloyd Carr is convinced some day, somehow, the Bowl Championship Series will include a playoff.

"I can guarantee that at some point, it will happen," Carr said at a news conference Friday. "When the BCS was set up, that was just the beginning. We're in a phase of discontent by some people. There's a lot of people who don't want a playoff, but I think it's growing the number of people that do. And I think we're going to have one."

Florida passed Michigan by the slimmest margin in BCS history to deny the Wolverines a rematch with Big Ten rival Ohio State in the Jan. 8 national championship game. Instead, No. 3 Michigan will play in its third Rose Bowl in the past four years.

Carr said it was one of the most disappointing moments in his 27 years with the Wolverines.

"Sometimes, in athletics, you get a bad bounce, and things don't go your way," Carr said. "And we have to move on from this."

He said he has not thought about what could happen if Florida beats Ohio State in the BCS championship game and if Michigan defeats the Trojans. Carr said coaches have determined they will cast their national championship vote for the winner of the championship game without taking into consideration the results of other BCS games.

So, Carr's challenge lies in preparing the 11-1 Wolverines for their Jan. 1 showdown against USC. The Trojans handed Michigan a Rose Bowl loss in 2003, and the Wolverines lost to Texas a year later.

This year, Carr said he believes his team can put a perfect ending on its season with a win over the Trojans.

"There's a tremendous excitement about this game, about playing in the Rose Bowl," Carr said. "I don't have any reservations that [Michigan players] are going to have trouble moving on. I don't think that will be a problem."

[AUFootball24]

No it's not, but nice try. There are plenty of examples that could be used for being classless on his part. Complaining about the system is not one of them. However, his incessant whining for votes is borderline.


Where did he whine for votes? He didn't ask for votes, he asked for a change.

[Cianne]

Where did he whine for votes? He didn't ask for votes, he asked for a change.

He did it earlier this season before getting hammered by Georgia, which wasn't the first time.

[AUFootball24]

Tubs and CUM are the only SEC coaches that.....


Dude, come on. The Meyer acronym doesn't work, lol.

[AUFootball24]

He did it earlier this season before getting hammered by Georgia, which wasn't the first time.

I'm pretty sure he was lobbying for the SEC, not Auburn. Hell, he even lobbied after we lost to arkansas. It's less about Auburn and more about the system being flawed. Auburn is just a prime example. The fact that you complain about it so much but dismiss meyer doing the same thing sounds like 'sour grapes' to me

[Cianne]

I dismissed Meyer? News to me. He whined his way harder than Carr whined his.

[Noah.Dreams]

The SEC can easily manipulate the BCS by controlling TV revenue during the season. ESPN, ABC, CBS, TNT and TBS are only interested in following the money. The SEC can create their own playoff system without adding a single game.

Just play a complete conference schedule within the SEC.

[ColonelReb]

Only the bottom feeders of the SEC like Ole Miss could possibly support ESPN/BCS. Oh well, nobody cares about Ole Miss and their miserable football program anyway....because they will never be in a situation to go to a BCS bowl game. Truly sad....

Nice...I love it when someone takes a discussion about something and turns it around into "your team sux and you'll never have a chance at a BCS game". Nice going off of topic to discuss something that has nothing to do with the current discussion. Oh, and you'll be bottom feeding again at some point. It's the natural progression of things. You also shouldn't be so quick to get all up in arms about Bama firing coaches...I seem to remember ol' Tubby almost getting the boot for having a stellar record.

[uscrebel]

Did Tommy actually say those things about Holtz? They are funny, but I can't picture Tommy calling out Ole Man Holtz in the media. Oh well, I'm proud to have a coach that isn't going to sit back and let teams get screwed over by a terrible system (without at least getting a discussion going). Respect him or not, CTT has been and will continue to be a driving force to creating a playoff system, and hes a great coach.

Actually, I can't imagine that he meant Holtz...if he did, he was wrong. Holtz won a national championship at Notre Dame and his record before USCar was a very respectable 216-95-7 (.700). During the 27 year run before USCar, he had two 12-win season, two 11-win seasons, three 10-win seasons. I agree that he is a worthless piece of crap, but you can't say he wasn't a winner at one time.

tubberville's all-time record of .644 is just about the same as Lou's lifetime .651.

As another well-known coach said earlier this year, "Tommy talks alot."

:cool: :cool:

[AU Blaaaaaaaake]

Actually, I can't imagine that he meant Holtz...if he did, he was wrong. Holtz won a national championship at Notre Dame and his record before USCar was a very respectable 216-95-7 (.700). During the 27 year run before USCar, he had two 12-win season, two 11-win seasons, three 10-win seasons. I agree that he is a worthless piece of crap, but you can't say he wasn't a winner at one time.

tubberville's all-time record of .644 is just about the same as Lou's lifetime .651.

As another well-known coach said earlier this year, "Tommy talks alot."

:cool: :cool:If Tommy puts a good amount of years into Auburn, his lifetime win % should be well above .644. Especially if you consider his win % over the last 3-4 seasons.

[Noah.Dreams]

tubberville's all-time record of .644 is just about the same as Lou's lifetime .651.

As another well-known coach said earlier this year, "Tommy talks alot."

:cool: :cool:In the future, I would sincerely appreciate it if you would avoid using cold hard facts to confuse the kids on this block. If it didn't happen last week, then it's ancient history.

And you know what they say about history... uh, well, I forget.

[Imhotep]

Here is a very good article about the problems caused by the BCS.

Actually, the story starts in December of 2003. Recall the furor that arose when USC, the #1-ranked team in both human polls, was shut out of the BCS title game. Personally, I found it almost unbearable to listen to media “talking heads” or to read analyses in the sports pages because most of the discussion demonstrated how clueless the “experts” were. I wrote a couple articles in which I detailed where the problems existed and sent them to various national media personnel as well as to some localized parties. In addition, the executive VP at my college made efforts to get both local and national media people to examine my materials. The response he received matched what I have by and large received over the past years – namely, no response whatsoever.

With perhaps one valuable exception. I had sent these article to Harvey Perlman, the chancellor at the U. of Nebraska. Dr. Perlman serves in an advisory capacity (to some degree) to the committee. He let me know that he was recommending to Kevin Weiberg, the Big 12 commissioner, that Kevin and the other commissioners pay heed to the “reasonable critiques” of the BCS formulation.

Well, the months passed, and I heard nothing from anyone on the committee. I, too, occupied myself with other matters. In May, however, stories started coming out about the shakeups in the BCS formulation. Lo and behold, they were taking most all my suggestions to heart! In fact, I chuckled when I read a couple columns because one or two of the commissioners were almost quoting me directly in explaining their rationale for a couple decisions.

Yes, most of the problem areas had been simply removed. The SOS component, the loss component, the quality wins feature - pieces whose administration had earned them the labels “redundant, inaccurate, and illogical” – all had been pitched. The human polls were now going to be computed by using the true arithmetic average of the voters.(Big Mistake,IMHO)

However, despite making these needed corrections, the committee for some reason seemed to be opting to leave the principal culprit in place! They were still going to let 4-6 computers have an inordinately high weight in the final algorithm. Apparently the committee was going to let these 4-6 computers have the same say that 65 sportswriters and 61 coaches would have, even though the committee had in the past evinced a distinct distrust of the individual computer outputs!

Obviously, this gives far too much influence to computer geeks. At this point, though, in early June of 2004, I sent two separate faxes to each commissioner’s office. The first complimented them on the improvements they were planning to make but warned them of the potential controversies that could still arise because a few computers could yet overturn a strong human consensus. I told them that every controversy in past years was due to a significant human consensus(ESPN) being reversed by other factors.

In my second fax I sent the commissioners six plausible hypothetical voting situations so that they could see what might happen. The only response I received was from Tom Hansen, commissioner of the PAC-10. Tom has consistently been the only commissioner who has carried on a correspondence with me. For that I am most appreciative. Tom e-mailed me that “…we have followed most of what you advised. It just took us too long to get there. We had to be burned again before some would really make changes.” He also said that he recommended to the committee that I be used as a “sounding board” (presumably along with others), but it would appear that this suggestion wasn’t taken to heart.

At any rate, Tom told me that the committee had already decided for 2004 to let the computers have the same say that each of the other two human groups had. I told him to keep his fingers crossed that nothing controversial would arise. Well, it would seem that he didn’t cross them tightly enough, for yet again controversy arose, and yet again it is due to the excessive weight the computers are allotted. Not surprisingly, the sports media as a whole remains ignorant of the true cause of the problem, focusing their myopic gaze on “integrity issues” among the human voters.

The first controversy involved undefeated SEC champion Auburn's exclusion from the BCS title game. Unfortunately, both USC and Oklahoma were placed (rightly or wrongly) ahead of Auburn in each of the three component pieces. Auburn was penalized by being placed initially far behind both USC and Oklahoma at the beginning of the 2004 season...which is absurd IMHO. Auburn had essentially caught OU late in the season, after beating top ten ranked Georgia, but OU seemed to make a stronger statement to the so-called voters than did Auburn, and OU regained the edge after Bob Stoops whined that the ESPN gameday crew was pro-Auburn--LOL

The second controversy in the 2004 season involved California, who was edged out by Texas..... not because of suspect human voting in the final week of the season, but because of two computer related issues that I have repeatedly tried to get the committee to correct.

Now, I realize that it’s a matter of opinion as to which of these two schools deserved the Rose Bowl berth. It’s also difficult for most people not to reassess the matter now that the bowls have been played and to feel that Texas “proved” that they were more deserving of the spot than Cal. However, when the decision had to be made prior to the bowls, the majority of the sporting public, as reflected in both the AP and ESPN polls, felt that Cal was more deserving. Even though Cal's season-long “body of work” was more impressive than that of the Longhorns. The AP poll had Cal 4th , Utah 5th , and Texas 6th, while the coaches had Cal 4th and Texas 5th. However, the 4-6 computers had Texas 4th and Cal 5th, and their relatively minute input was magnified, due to the weighting prescription, to the point that Texas squeaked past Cal, and literally robbed Cal of approximately 12.5 million dollars, and a BCS bowl game.

Why the computers rated Texas above California is the second interesting, and unfortunate, point. After the 2001 season, in which many felt Oregon was unfairly denied a Rose Bowl berth against Miami, the committee made (in my opinion) a major error in judgment. Instead of perceiving the problem to be the excessive weight given to the computers (and to the other non-human components), they decided that the problem was with computers that were allowed to gauge margin of victory. So they mandated that no computer program could take margin of victory into account. I have discussed elsewhere in this website that I am in favor of allowing computer programmers to incorporate this factor into their programs (should they so desire)!

California’s 2004' extremely impressive road demolitions of Oregon State and Washington were judged by computer programs as being no more impressive (in fact, probably a little less so, given opponents’ overall records) than Texas’s miraculous escapes at Arkansas and Kansas. Doesn’t it strike you as being misguided not to allow computers to make some kind of differentiation here?! By the way, Jeff Sagarin, one of the most respected computer programmers, has maintained dual rating systems: his standard one, in which margin of victory is considered (with safeguards to discourage running up scores), and a second version, which he turns into the BCS people, that does not take into account victory margins. Comparing his two versions is quite illuminating. In his preferred version, Cal is 3rd, Utah 4th, Auburn 5th , and Texas 6th. Yet in the version he must give to the BCS folks, it goes Auburn, Texas, California, and Utah. This is clear-cut evidence that had the committee not made the mistake of eliminating discriminating capabilities from computers, Cal would have indeed finished ahead of Texas in the BCS poll.

Unfortunately, after putting the blame for the 2004 season's problems in the lap of human voters, and by calling into question their integrity, the commissioners and numerous media members have apparently precipitated a knee-jerk reaction from the AP policy board. In a letter to the committee, the AP organization now claims to want no part of the process, and is seeking to forbid the BCS people from using their poll. Personally, I found the reasoning exhibited in the letter to be mystifying and the general tone of their statement to be almost petulant. This latest decision is to me quite disappointing, because the AP poll likely should be the bedrock upon which the BCS committee’s decisions are based.

[lacene]

*stabs eyes out with pencil*

[autiger1126]

tuberville said lou holtz couldn't win a game in the SEC. His overall record at USC was 33-37 (.471). His SEC record was 19-29 (.396), and thats with 10 wins against kentucky and vanderbilt.

[CRIMSONWHITE]

USC-Texas was the right matchup regardless of what he thinks about ESPN and the BCS. It's just sour grapes from him at this point.


Good point that Wingnut is a classless idiot.

[lacene]

tuberville said lou holtz couldn't win a game in the SEC. His overall record at USC was 33-37 (.471). His SEC record was 19-29 (.396), and thats with 10 wins against kentucky and vanderbilt.

...and that's 33-26 (.559), 19-21 (.475) after the first season, but they all count.

[Imhotep]

...and that's 33-26 (.559), 19-21 (.475) after the first season, but they all count.

Would you take him back?

How could anybody defend Lou Holtz?

Holtz is possibly the most hated coach in the country...

[AU Blaaaaaaaake]

Would you take him back?

How could anybody defend Lou Holtz?

Holtz is possibly the most hated coach in the country...
Gotta agree with Imhotep here, Holtz is annoying, and obviously had about as much control over USCjr as Coker did at Miami if you know what I mean.

It really makes you wonder how ESPN goes about hiring announcers and sports broadcasters. You would think a speech impediment would keep you out of a job focused around speaking.

[Imhotep]

Fact: Lou Holtz career has been followed with controversy. History shows us that throughout Lou Holtz's career he has left a wake of scandal and probation, always managing to get out of Dodge one step ahead of sanctions hitting his school.

Every school that has had Lou Holtz as a head coach (NC State, Minnesota, Arkansas, Notre Dame, and South Carolina) has been hit with probation in sequence with his departure.

A common theme in the probation verbage has been that his programs have a "lack of institutional control". All of Lou Holtz schools found to have violated NCAA rules, only one was subsequently given an "informal probation", giving them the right to address the issues internally. Which school was that?

That's right, Notre Dame! How convenient. Lou Holtz' career at ND is one of the darkest times in ND history. A book, "Under the Tarnished Dome", has even been written about this period of Notre Dame tradition, which includes one National Championship.

In this book, the authors and ex-players make allegations of prevalent steroid use and illegal loans to players. Oh, how pure Notre dame is.

Minnesota and South Carolina were also placed on probation shortly after he left. What a guy...

Holtz is pure slime...

[lacene]

Would you take him back?

How could anybody defend Lou Holtz?

Holtz is possibly the most hated coach in the country...

it's not that simple.

Lou Holtz didn't play in those games.

the numbers I posted represents wins and losses by the Gamecock football team.

not every team member of those teams were a thug or crook.

Just because Holtz coached the Gamecocks doesn't mean I'm going to hang my head in shame over SC going 17-7 with back-to-back Outback bowl wins over OSU. I don't see many AU fans too ashamed over Pat Dye....

but no, I wouldn't take Holtz back.

[Crimson Kicker8]

ABC/ESPN/Lou Holtz and the gang despise Tuberville to this day when he unloaded on the BCS and ESPN last year. Both Florida and CUM should thank Tubs for sticking up for the SEC...it's quite possible that Tubs forced the BCS' hand this year. Even the Bama fans are beginning to realize how biased these guys are towards the SEC. This is what Tubs said last year, after AU was left out of yet another BCS bowl.

"It's done," Tuberville said. "The national media, led by ESPN, wants to see Vince Young vs. Matt Leinart in the championship game. It's going to be those two teams unless Texas or USC get upset.


"Last year, they wanted to see the two Heisman Trophy quarterbacks, Jason White and Leinart. After six or seven games, we(AU' undefeated 04 team) were out of it.


"If four teams are undefeated at the end of the season, there should be a playoff. There should've been one last year.(2004) But it's decided already. I don't like it."

He wasn't finished:

"ESPN has gotten so much power lately, it's kinda scary," Tuberville said. "And most of their analysts are coaches who haven't won any games. That's why they're there. I think you know who I'm talking about.(Holtz)


"And Lou Holtz gets on there and talks about what a team has to do win that game, and the guy couldn't beat anybody in our conference.(SEC) These guys will come talk to you and look you straight in the eye and tell you something, then they'll get on the air and say something else.

"ESPN, I'll tell you, I don't have much to do with them anymore."



Seriously, Tuberville isn't the only person to lament the power that ESPN has accrued (with its sister network ABC) in recent years within college football and sports in general. And he certainly isn't the first person to take issue with one of ESPN's analysts. Face it, there's a reason why Gerry DiNardo, Lou Holtz, and Terry Bowden are talking into TV microphones rather than coaches' headsets these days.

Ha Ha, you're a moron. But most everyone on SECTalk knows that, you can even sense the other Auburn fans cringing at your pathetic claims. If what you say is true about Tubs' remarks a few years ago influencing the BSC to take Florida this year in the NCG then USC never would have passed Florida in the polls after they beat Notre Dame. Florida reached the big game this year because they played that extra championship game and finally got the credit they deserved for doing so. If the SEC didn't hold itself to such a higher standard by including that championship game then Michigan would be playing OSU this year in the big game. So what does that mean? It means CTT's rant in 04 had nothing to do with Florida playing OSU this year, nice try though.

[Cianne]

If the SEC didn't hold itself to such a higher standard by including that championship game then Michigan would be playing OSU this year in the big game.

Having a championship game has nothing to do with holding a higher standard. The Big Ten and the Pac-10 would have championship games too if they had the NCAA mandated twelves teams to do it. Unfortunately there's not many good candidates to join either conference to get them to twelve.

[Crimson Kicker8]

You know you agree with him, the BCS is BS. You just want to call him classless because of your own sour grapes. He didn't say USC-Texas wasn't the right matchup, he just said it was predetermined pretty much no matter what the other teams do, and he's right.

Let me add some clarity to your claim here. Nobody disagree's with CTT's message, there isn't a person in America who doesn't think the BCS is crap, save the BCS officials and those who profit most from it. It's not his message that was flawed it's who he attacked in getting that message out. He personally attacked folks at ESPN who have very little to absolutely nothing to do with the BCS's outcome. That's why so many people have issues with what he said, myself included. If he really wanted to take the fight to BCS he would have taken issue with people higher up who have the power to change the system, but I guess the ole's River Boat Gambler didn't have the intestinal fortitude for that so he attacked Lou Holtz instead.

[Crimson Kicker8]

Having a championship game has nothing to do with holding a higher standard. The Big Ten and the Pac-10 would have championship games too if they had the NCAA mandated twelves teams to do it. Unfortunately there's not many good candidates to join either conference to get them to twelve.

If either the Big 10 for PAc-10 wanted a 12th team they could get them. As for good candidates, the PAC-10 isn't exactly a powerhouse from top to bottom, any addition could had some competition there, the Big 10 isn't far from there either, NIU maybe? They're pretty solid.

[Cianne]

If either the Big 10 for PAc-10 wanted a 12th team they could get them. As for good candidates, the PAC-10 isn't exactly a powerhouse from top to bottom, any addition could had some competition there, the Big 10 isn't far from there either, NIU maybe? They're pretty solid.

Well, the Big Ten and the Pac-10 are holding themselves to a higher standard both academically and athletically. Therefore they won't just admit any team off the street. The Big Ten won't admit Northern Illinois just for football and stink up the rest of the sports and academics, and likewise, the Pac-10 won't just admit Boise State under the same pretense. They aren't the Big East afterall. A conference doesn't encompass more than just football.

[Crimson Kicker8]

Well, the Big Ten and the Pac-10 are holding themselves to a higher standard both academically and athletically. Therefore they won't just admit any team off the street. The Big Ten won't admit Northern Illinois just for football and stink up the rest of the sports and academics, and likewise, the Pac-10 won't just admit Boise State under the same pretense. They aren't the Big East afterall. A conference doesn't encompass more than just football.

I'm not sure where you're getting that the Big Ten and Pac 10 are holding themselves to higher standards than the SEC athletically. I'm not even sure I'd agree with the academic part but I will say it's a possibility. The fact of the matter is, the NCAA holds all schools to a base-line requirement as far as grades and eligibility goes. Of course, any school can go above and beyond those requirements if they choose, which is what I think you are implying the Big Ten and Pac 10 do.

I personally don't think a NIU would "stink up" the rest of the conference, and if the Big Ten feel that way then they are letting their arrogance get in the way. Idealy, Notre Dame would make a perfect addition to the Big Ten in terms of academics, quality of talent, and allowing for a clear-cut conference winner, but I know that has been tried and failed in the past.

The Pac 10 is no different, as often as Boise State goes undefeated or has a one-loss season they would make a magnificant addition. Throw another school in there like Hawaii and you have a stronger conference from top to bottom without sacrificing your academic reputation.

Basically, as long as conferences have a conference championship game then they are holding themselves to higher standards on the field and should be rewarded in the polls for doing so. If the Big Ten had a championship game then Michigan could very well be in the big game this year. Yes, academics plays a role, but should not be the deciding factor when you decide not to expand your conference, thus making yourself weaker.

[AU Blaaaaaaaake]

Let me add some clarity to your claim here. Nobody disagree's with CTT's message, there isn't a person in America who doesn't think the BCS is crap, save the BCS officials and those who profit most from it. It's not his message that was flawed it's who he attacked in getting that message out. He personally attacked folks at ESPN who have very little to absolutely nothing to do with the BCS's outcome. That's why so many people have issues with what he said, myself included. If he really wanted to take the fight to BCS he would have taken issue with people higher up who have the power to change the system, but I guess the ole's River Boat Gambler didn't have the intestinal fortitude for that so he attacked Lou Holtz instead.Yo crimsonK, if you notice Imhotep didn't have links to any of the b.s. he posted, much like the rest of the b.s. he has posted on this site. I know CTT said the first comments about the NC game that year, but I have never seen nor heard the comments about Holtz or ESPN personel. If anyone has a link to these comments or some proof that they were said that would be fantastic.

[Jay Bee]

Good point that Wingnut is a classless idiot.


so how does it feel to be owned by one?

WDE!
jj

[WallyGoat]

so how does it feel to be owned by one?

WDE!
jj

Tommy Tuberville purchased and now currently owns CRIMSONWHITE? How odd. :laugh: jk

[Crimson Kicker8]

Yo crimsonK, if you notice Imhotep didn't have links to any of the b.s. he posted, much like the rest of the b.s. he has posted on this site. I know CTT said the first comments about the NC game that year, but I have never seen nor heard the comments about Holtz or ESPN personel. If anyone has a link to these comments or some proof that they were said that would be fantastic.

Here's a link that was posted on another board: http://www.irontrybe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34859



Tuberville speaks out against BCS system, ESPN

By Mike Tankersley
Montgomery Advertiser

Join the club, Alabama and Georgia. And Virginia Tech is welcome, too.

That was the message Monday from Auburn coach Tommy Tuberville, who spoke at the Montgomery Quarterback Club's noon luncheon two days after watching his team's 13-game SEC winning streak come to an end at Baton Rouge.

Tuberville, whose team was shut out of the BCS national title game last season, was asked if he thought the same thing might happen to an SEC school again this year. That got him started on the Bowl Championship Series system and the national media, particularly ESPN.

"It's done," Tuberville said. "The national media, led by ESPN, wants to see Vince Young vs. Matt Leinart in the championship game. It's going to be those two teams unless Texas or USC get upset.

"Last year, they wanted to see the two Heisman Trophy quarterbacks, Jason White and Leinart. After six or seven games, we were out of it.

"If four teams are undefeated at the end of the season, there should be a playoff. There should've been one last year. But it's decided already. I don't like it."

Tuberville spoke out sharply against ESPN and the influence it wields on the college game. He said the opinions ESPN hosts and analysts put out on the airwaves each week tend to shape the opinions of fans and media people around the country.

And he's not at all happy about that.

"ESPN has gotten so much power lately, it's kinda scary," Tuberville said. "And most of their analysts are coaches who haven't won any games. That's why they're there. I think you know who I'm talking about.

"And Lou Holtz gets on there and talks about what a team has to do win that game, and the guy couldn't beat anybody in our conference. These guys will come talk to you and look you straight in the eye and tell you something, then they'll get on the air and say something else.

"ESPN, I'll tell you, I don't have much to do with them anymore."

Tuberville told the audience that when he got to his office Sunday after attending church, he heard a noise from the practice field. He checked it out and saw that it was John Vaughn, who was kicking by himself off a tee.

"I guess he was kicking out his frustrations," Tuberville said, referring to Vaughn's five missed field-goal attempts Saturday night. "He's sick about it. He's a good kicker. He just had one of those nights. We all have them. And you'll never hear or read about this, but the wind on that field was swirling. It was a guessing game as to where to kick the ball. But he'll recover."

Tuberville said he paid close attention to the Auburn players after the game. He hated losing the game, but what he saw from his players afterward inspired him.

"You find out a lot about people in a situation like that," he said. "I sat back in the locker room and watched John (Vaughn), and every player on that team came by and said something to him. You travel with 70 players, and every one of them went by and talked to him.

"I don't mean they just patted him on the back. They all went up to him and sat down and talked to him. I was very proud of that. That kid was upset."

Tuberville thinks his team grew up a little while battling LSU on the road.

"When you do lose, you want it to affect your players," Tuberville said. "There weren't five words said on the entire plane ride home, and that was a long trip. It affected our guys."

[AU Blaaaaaaaake]

Well nevermind then haha. CTT is one of the few coaches in football whose got balls on and off the field. I hope he stays at Auburn for as long as his coaching career lasts!

[azamugg]

my Bama brethren may wanna hang me and others here too who arent fans of Tuberville but................Tuberville is a good coach and I'd take'em in a heartbeat

did he do what was perceived to be slimy w/Ole Miss, well w/the rumour mill and false info being spread by the media Im not sure what he did was unethical but frankly you have to walk on eggshells when quiting one team and going w/another as far as tact, trying not to hurt your team or its recruiting or its motivation leading into a bowl game.

and as far as his "whining" for votes.............its called lobbying folks and making the officials and public hyperaware of inequality if indeed it exists.........if Im trying to win a NC and I have to not only win on the field but w/politics too then gdammitt Im gonna play politician

[WallyGoat]

my Bama brethren may wanna hang me and others here too who arent fans of Tuberville but................Tuberville is a good coach and I'd take'em in a heartbeat

did he do what was perceived to be slimy w/Ole Miss, well w/the rumour mill and false info being spread by the media Im not sure what he did was unethical but frankly you have to walk on eggshells when quiting one team and going w/another as far as tact, trying not to hurt your team or its recruiting or its motivation leading into a bowl game.

and as far as his "whining" for votes.............its called lobbying folks and making the officials and public hyperaware of inequality if indeed it exists.........if Im trying to win a NC and I have to not only win on the field but w/politics too then gdammitt Im gonna play politician

I said something similar not too long ago, about the lobbying that is. I also said that I think Tubs has some serious guts challenging the current structure of the BCS, in so many words.

I don't believe he is a bad guy, or a bad coach. If he was coaching Alabama, we'd see him in a completely different light. I just hope we can beat him next year.

[Wizard of Orange]

If the Big 10 (11) can't get ND, I'd suggest stealing Louisville from the Big East to get my #12. That is, if they really want to have a Champ game. Personnally, I don't think they do...
Louisville is right on the Indiana border, so geographically, its a pretty good fit.

If not, Pitt or Cincinnati or even WV might work.

[WarEagle73]

If the Big 10 (11) can't get ND, I'd suggest stealing Louisville from the Big East to get my #12. That is, if they really want to have a Champ game. Personnally, I don't think they do...
Louisville is right on the Indiana border, so geographically, its a pretty good fit.

If not, Pitt or Cincinnati or even WV might work.

I think Notre Dame should be forced to play football in the Big 10. Don't they already play all other sports as part of the Big 10 anyway?

[Cianne]

I think Notre Dame should be forced to play football in the Big 10. Don't they already play all other sports as part of the Big 10 anyway?

No, Big East.

[WarEagle73]

No, Big East.

My opinion of the Big East just went down another peg.

[Imhotep]

It only gets worse for everybody but Notre Dame.... Read what the BCS has planned for the future.....

BCS News Release On "Future Structure"

The 2005 regular season marked the eighth and final year of ABC/ESPN Sport's exclusive rights to telecast the four BCS bowls. Beginning with the post-season following the 2006 campaign, FOX Sports will telecast the Orange, Sugar and Fiesta Bowls. Fox will also telecast the National Championship games in January 2007, January 2008, and January 2009.

ABC/ESPN will continue to telecast the Rose Bowl through January 2014. It will also telecast the National Championship game when it is played in Pasadena in January 2010.

The BCS will use a "double hosting" format beginning with the games played after the 2006 regular season. Under this model there will be five (5) BCS games annually, including the National Championship game. The four BCS bowl games (Orange, Fiesta, Sugar, Rose) will be held annually, in addition to a National Championship game that will rotate among those four bowl sites each year. Once every four years, one of the aforementioned bowls will host two BCS games: its traditional bowl game and the National Championship game.

Under the new BCS arrangement Notre Dame will be guaranteed one of the at-large slots in a BCS bowl if it is ranked No. 8 or better in the final BCS Standings. It is also guaranteed annual payment for its participation in the BCS. In those seasons in which the Irish play in a BCS game, the school will receive $4.5 million (an amount equivalent that received by a conference that places a second team in a BCS bowl). In those seasons in which Notre Dame does not play in a BCS game, it is projected to be paid $1.3 million for its participation in the BCS arrangement.

As in the current BCS arrangement, no more than two teams from the same conference may play in the BCS bowls in any particular year.

After the 2007 season, automatic qualification standards will be applied to all 11 Division I-A conferences to determine the number of conferences whose champion will automatically qualify for a BCS game for the next two seasons ('08 and '09). Each conference will be evaluated on each of the previous four seasons ('04, '05, '06, '07), based on membership during the '07 season. The champions of no fewer than five conferences and no more than seven conferences will have annual automatic berths in the BCS bowl games played following the 2008 and 2009 regular season.

It is anticipated that payments to those conferences whose champions have an annual automatic berth in a BCS bowl game will be approximately $17 million following the 2006 regular season and increase to $18.5 million for the BCS bowl games played following the 2009 regular season. Any conference placing a second team in one of the BCS bowls will continue to receive a payment of $4.5 million for such team.

BCS Facts and Propaganda (from the BCS)

* The BCS is a five-game arrangement for post-season college football that is designed to match up the two top-rated teams in a national championship game and to create exciting and competitive matchups between eight other highly regarded teams in four other games.

* The bowl games participating are the Fiesta Bowl, Orange Bowl, Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl. in addition, a BCS National Championship Game will be played at one of the bowl sites.

* The BCS is managed by the commissioners of the 11 NCAA Division I-A conferences, the director of athletics at the University of Notre Dame, and representatives of the bowl organizations. The conferences are Atlantic Coast, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, Conference USA, Mid-American, Mountain West, Sun Belt, Pacific-10, Southeastern and Western Athletic.

* The conference commissioners and the Notre Dame athletics director make decisions regarding all BCS issues, in consultation with an athletics directors advisory group and subject to the approval of a presidential oversight committee whose members represent all 117 Division I-A programs.

* The five BCS bowl games are part of the overall bowl structure. There are 26 other bowl games presently, and those games provide meaningful season-ending opportunities to teams.

* As one conference commissioner said: "The celebration that occurs among the student-athletes, coaching staff and fans at the end of each bowl game is an indication of the importance of all bowl games."

* The BCS places great premium on the regular season of college football. Football weekends are an important ingredient in the overall college experience - going well beyond simply what occurs in the athletics department. A significant amount of the revenue that supports all athletic programs is generated by regular-season football. And so it is of great importance that the regular season remains strong and vibrant.

* The top two teams were matched in bowl games infrequently before the BCS, when conferences were contractually obligated to certain games and there was no flexibility to attempt to match the top teams.

* The 2006 regular season (2007 BCS bowl games) is the first year of a television agreement with FOX Sports. ABC has an agreement to continue to televise the Rose Bowl through 2014.

* The BCS is succeeding. The nation's No. 1 and No. 2 teams met only eight times in bowl games in the 57 seasons between 1936 and 1992, when the Bowl Coalition (a predecessor of the BCS) was created. No. 1 and No. 2 have met eight times in the 15 years since 1992. In the eight-year history of the BCS, AP's No. 1 and No. 2 have met five times.

* The BCS is not a playoff system. It is nothing more than an attempt to match the No. 1 and No. 2 teams within the bowl system and to create exciting matchups in four other bowl games.

* The BCS is not an exclusive system that rewards only a few. The University of Utah demonstrated in 2005 that a team from a conference without an annual automatic berth can have access to a BCS bowl game. The selection process has been further adjusted to allow even more such access in the future.

* Before the BCS was created, conferences without automatic berths in the "major" bowl games received no revenue from those games. In the first eight years of the BCS system, more than $50 million was distributed to conferences that do not have an annual automatic berth in the system.

* The total economic impact in the host cities from the five BCS games in January, 2007, is estimated at more than $1.2 billion.

* The NCAA membership has not proposed the creation of a playoff.


http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q259/AllSeeingEye11/22anew-1.gif

[WDavE]

My opinion is that if you play in a conference without a championship game. Then all the teams in that conference should have to give back a non-conference opponent and play every team in the conference. The PAC-10 did that this year. Hopefull some of the other teams in the conference will improve someday besides just USC/Cal.

Looking at Wisc. they missed one of the big boys and currently sit with only one loss because of that.

[bbqit]

Fact: Lou Holtz career has been followed with controversy. History shows us that throughout Lou Holtz's career he has left a wake of scandal and probation, always managing to get out of Dodge one step ahead of sanctions hitting his school.

Every school that has had Lou Holtz as a head coach (NC State, Minnesota, Arkansas, Notre Dame, and South Carolina) has been hit with probation in sequence with his departure.

A common theme in the probation verbage has been that his programs have a "lack of institutional control". All of Lou Holtz schools found to have violated NCAA rules, only one was subsequently given an "informal probation", giving them the right to address the issues internally. Which school was that?

That's right, Notre Dame! How convenient. Lou Holtz' career at ND is one of the darkest times in ND history. A book, "Under the Tarnished Dome", has even been written about this period of Notre Dame tradition, which includes one National Championship.

In this book, the authors and ex-players make allegations of prevalent steroid use and illegal loans to players. Oh, how pure Notre dame is.

Minnesota and South Carolina were also placed on probation shortly after he left. What a guy...

Holtz is pure slime...


I agree Holtz is slime!!!!!!!!!! I assume that is understood. Yet his stint in Ark had more to do with his investments than anything else. I know there are very few of ya that will research to find this out but when in grad school this was a topic on morals in business. Broyles letting Holtz go cause of his investment buying stock in a certain beer company. Oh this will catch heck from those that don't look up what they need to to argue with it but it happened. Broyles is hands on and grip tight. Just like meeting with mustain's parents and a couple wide receivers parents this week to discuss why the freshmen didn't catch "60 passes" (i quote their words) this year. All bypassing Nutt. If it wasn't for the money he was makin he would be gone with that going on.

[shk999]

Im sure Tubby wont be getting a lot of thank you letters from FLA this year. The reason FLA is playing for the NC is because of UM's offense and CS's defense. I dont disagree with CTT that the SEC gets no respect. He is guilty of a little "whining" but some of his points were valid. At any rate, to say Tubby is the reason for FLA playing OSU is somewhat laughable. The Gators earned their way in and anyone with half a brain knows that.