Congrats to Odom's boys

[Dr. Pepper]

Good game at Vandy. But you have to run off about 5 in a row before I will be interested.

[cocky4ever]

Good game at Vandy. But you have to run off about 5 in a row before I will be interested.
As funny as it sounds, I hope we either do well enough to get into the NCAA Tournament or do really crappy. Im tired of seeing Odom win just enough games to keep his job.

[WayzUp]

As funny as it sounds, I hope we either do well enough to get into the NCAA Tournament or do really crappy. Im tired of seeing Odom win just enough games to keep his job.
HERE HERE! This is exactly what Im' talkin' about. I'm so sick to death of Carolina basketball being mediocre (at best!) that I could scream. We need a new face & one that can recruit more than one decent player with 3 JUCO's every year.

Give me March dancing or give me SUCK. Poo or get off the pot, Coach Odom.

[rabidcock]

He's averaged about 20 wins per season in four years. i guess that's good enough to keep your job. :rolleyes:

[WayzUp]

He's averaged about 20 wins per season in four years. i guess that's good enough to keep your job. :rolleyes:
That's just it rabid...20 wins being a successful season is as old a benchmark as saying a guy hitting 20 homers in MLB is a power hitter. In today's game, 20 homers are what you want out of your defensive shortstop & for anyone else, that's mediocre. In college hoops, the best teams in the nation nowadays are averaging 25-30 wins when all is said & done. We haven't approached a number like that since the 3-guard tandem of BJ McKie, Melvin Watson & Larry Davis back when Eddie Fogler was crouching and thinking at our bench. With our OOC schedule, there's no excuse for not reaching 20+ wins every single year.

And if averaging about 20 wins per season over the past four years is good enough, why are the recruits not standing up and taking notice? Why do we not land any blue chippers EVER? Who's the last big-name recruit Odom's brought to Columbia? With our facilities and our athletic department's support, there's no excuse for how completely average we are every single year.

[rabidcock]

And if averaging about 20 wins per season over the past four years is good enough, why are the recruits not standing up and taking notice? Why do we not land any blue chippers EVER? Who's the last big-name recruit Odom's brought to Columbia? With our facilities and our athletic department's support, there's no excuse for how completely average we are every single year.

Of course, you are right on the mark, Wayz. And I was just thinking (with pride) of that '97 team of which you speak. I really was not being flippant with that "20 wins" remark, just provoking some thought for others to draw out.

Ever since the heyday of Frank McGuire, we've not really had any consistent success in roundball. If you look back over the last 25 years, we have brought in quite a few hopeful saviors but to no avail. Even F. McGuire only averaged 15 wins in his last four years before being shamelessly "put to pasture".

In 1980, Bill Foster came in with high hopes and credentials from DUKE but only managed 20+ wins in one of his six seasons. Hot young coach, George Felton fared no better, with only one 20-win season in five tries. In eight seasons, Eddie Fogler managed back-to-back years of 23 and 24 wins (with the ONE great recruiting class we've managed in the last quarter century); the other six years, he averaged about 12 wins! Dave Odum actually has the best "average wins per season" by far than any coach in the last 25 years. IMO, he is a great coach with average talent.

Before we oust him, let us realize what the REAL problem is, not only here, but at many another school, as to why we can maintain no consistency. It is really hard to capture that all-pervasive (but highly elusive) trait known as TRADITION. Even Rick Patino brought Louisville BACK to prominence, because it had a previous tradition to draw from. No matter how great a recruiter you may be, it's a hard thing (obviously) to establish. Part of one's recruiting acumen can be attributed to whatever school you are recruiting for.
[I imagine John Wooden's recruiting efforts became progressively easier with each passing season while at UCLA.]

Now, I know it has to start somewhere, but what is the answer? I certainly haven't the solution. USC seems to be a hotbed for the ruination of many a coach's reputation. Let us hope we can find/have found that coach, whereby tradition can not only be obtained but maintained.

[Does anyone have an(y) ANSWER(S) for our dilemma?]

[WayzUp]

Great post, rabid...i wish I had even a suggestion for your questions.

[uscrules]

iI believe Dave Odom to be a good coach, especially defense. I believe he is a good developer of players, especially big men. I believe he is a good bench coach. What I don't believe is, he is a good recuiter. I don't know the answer to this one. Do we need a young energetic coach or a name coach? I think traditon is a major factor in recuiting. With North Carolina and Duke just up the road, how do you sway players to come to South Carolina? What does Duke have to offer players that we don't have here? Tradition. You can't buy it, you have to earn it. We had it once in the late 60's and early 70's, but when we left the ACC, it left with us. Maybe if we could have went straight to the SEC then we could have maintained it. Even Frank Mcguire could not keep it from dying. You have to hope that some of the players we have now will overachieve and South Carolina will be able to attact the blue chip players we need to put us back with the basketball elite.

[azamugg]

iI believe Dave Odom to be a good coach, especially defense. I believe he is a good developer of players, especially big men. I believe he is a good bench coach. What I don't believe is, he is a good recuiter. I don't know the answer to this one. Do we need a young energetic coach or a name coach? I think traditon is a major factor in recuiting. With North Carolina and Duke just up the road, how do you sway players to come to South Carolina? What does Duke have to offer players that we don't have here? Tradition. You can't buy it, you have to earn it. We had it once in the late 60's and early 70's, but when we left the ACC, it left with us. Maybe if we could have went straight to the SEC then we could have maintained it. Even Frank Mcguire could not keep it from dying. You have to hope that some of the players we have now will overachieve and South Carolina will be able to attact the blue chip players we need to put us back with the basketball elite.

we have questions about Gottfried too, but he brings in the recruits and w/the exception of a final 8, we wonder if he is capable of doing more.....really I guess you have to stick w/a coach winning on average 20 games a year and be patient and wait on that exceptional team that might have an exceptional player

[rabidcock]

Do we need a young energetic coach or a name coach? I think traditon is a major factor in recuiting. We had it once in the late 60's and early 70's, but when we left the ACC, it left with us. Maybe if we could have went straight to the SEC then we could have maintained it. Even Frank Mcguire could not keep it from dying.

Bill Felton WAS a name coach (he should have stayed at Duke, where he was having success), so was Dave Odum who parlayed Tim Duncan into a tradition which still survives at Wake Forrest, the team ODUM built into a national power. Even Eddie Fogler had somewhat of a name at Vandy.

And yes, you are correct: tradition vanished along with the top recruits after we left the ACC for the no-man's-land of independent and Metro conference status (a huge mistake our roundball program has never recovered from). It caused Frank McGuire's downfall, tragically.

[thebreadman]

I've been around a lot of the coaches and I only wish Odom was still in his 50's because he can do a lot of good things with a basketball program. Here's an example of what I mean.
Letterman's Reunion (http://www.gamecocksportsplus.com/articles/InauguralLettermansBasketballReunion.html)

[rabidcock]

Thanks for that interesting bit, breadman. If Odum could just recruit a couple of key players to go with what I consider an excellent supporting cast, this town/league would really see something!

It's unfortunate, he has not been able to come across on the one thing that could complete a fine legacy here and finally compete with the greatness that was Frank McGuire: [a] great recruiting class(es).