Vince Young in the NFL draft

[Noah.Dreams]

CBS sports just reported that Vince Young will enter the NFL draft in 2006.

[Cianne]

Some team is going to get a great WR.

[Noah.Dreams]

Some team is going to get a great WR.
oooh, that will stir 'em up....

[uscrebel]

oooh, that will stir 'em up....

Stir up whom?

I was not aware that anyone outside of Texas actually gave a cr@p about the Longhorns. :cool:

[Noah.Dreams]

Stir up whom?

I was not aware that anyone outside of Texas actually gave a cr@p about the Longhorns. :cool:
Don't you mean anyone outside of California...

[crimsonnation713]

Some team is going to get a great WR.


and a gr8 runner of the mouth...

[OmahaBound]

Some team is going to get a great WR.

as long as he's great i doubt they'll care.

it will be interesting to see if the Titans take him at #3. he's already being mentored by McNair and would be a natural transition once McNair retires after next season (most likely). he needs to sit for a season to learn the NFL game if he's going to be a QB, so i doubt there's a more perfect scenario for him.

[SilverBritches]

Some team is going to get a great WR.

Did you watch the Rose Bowl? That was one of the greatest individual performances ever in a national championship game. He was 30/40 in the game. Thats a 75% completion percentage. What makes you think he can't play QB in the NFL?

[Cianne]

Did you watch the Rose Bowl? That was one of the greatest individual performances ever in a national championship game. He was 30/40 in the game. Thats a 75% completion percentage. What makes you think he can't play QB in the NFL?

Outside of god awful mechanics that can't be changed (see Mack Brown's interview where they tried to help and failed) and a style of running that won't work in the NFL? Oh I don't know.

I could have gone out there against that USC defense and completed 75% of my passes. There were planetary sized holes in that zone coverage.

[Cianne]

Oh and great individual performances in a national championship game do not a great NFL player make. You don't have to go far back to the OSU-Miami Fiesta Bowl and Maurice Clarett to see that.

[fernandomike]

Outside of god awful mechanics that can't be changed (see Mack Brown's interview where they tried to help and failed) and a style of running that won't work in the NFL? Oh I don't know.

I could have gone out there against that USC defense and completed 75% of my passes. There were planetary sized holes in that zone coverage.

I wouldn't go quite that far. Mack Brown has never had a great reputation for developing players. In the NFL, Young will have coaches much more capable of successfully tweaking his throwing motion than he had in Austin.
They couldn't even get much out of Chris Simms who in his young NFL career has already proven himself to be a pretty decent quarterback.

[uscrebel]

Don't you mean anyone outside of California...

We forgot about it the next day.

Like Alabama, we have a shelf full of National Championships and like Notre Dame we have a room full of Heismans. (I haven't been since Reggie's was added, but the previous six looked pretty impressive. I have always figured that it was easier to convince recruits that they could be successful with a pile of those hanging around.)

We're a little too busy reloading to worry much about a loss here and there.


:cool: :cool:

[crimsonnation713]

Outside of god awful mechanics that can't be changed (see Mack Brown's interview where they tried to help and failed) and a style of running that won't work in the NFL? Oh I don't know.

I could have gone out there against that USC defense and completed 75% of my passes. There were planetary sized holes in that zone coverage.


geezzzz....sounds like you need to go into coaching if you could see all that on TV

[Djshockley3]

I hope my Titans get him so Mcnair can show him the ropes for a year and then he can start in 07'.

[Cianne]

In the NFL, Young will have coaches much more capable of completely overhauling his throwing motion than he had in Austin.

There ya go. Fixed it for ya. He needs a ton of work on it.

[SilverBritches]

Outside of god awful mechanics that can't be changed (see Mack Brown's interview where they tried to help and failed) and a style of running that won't work in the NFL? Oh I don't know.

I disagree but reasonable answer.

[thethrill]

Outside of god awful mechanics that can't be changed (see Mack Brown's interview where they tried to help and failed) and a style of running that won't work in the NFL? Oh I don't know.

I could have gone out there against that USC defense and completed 75% of my passes. There were planetary sized holes in that zone coverage.

I don't really know about the mechanics, it seemed every throw was on the money. For his running style, I would say being very fast and powerful with the ability to drag defenders downfield will probaly translate pretty well to the NFL. I think he's about the same size as Daunte Culpepper but he is faster and seems to be more of a leader. He'll be great.

[Foxman]

I don't really know about the mechanics, it seemed every throw was on the money. For his running style, I would say being very fast and powerful with the ability to drag defenders downfield will probaly translate pretty well to the NFL. I think he's about the same size as Daunte Culpepper but he is faster and seems to be more of a leader. He'll be great.

Mechanics, running style, all that can be corrected. But one thing stood out on that last game that you just can't teach. Composure. Did you see thouse last 4th quarter drives? They were down by 12 in the 4th quarter in Pasedena against the defending national champions, but you couldn't tell that by Vince Young. Absolutly unreal. And that 4th and 5 to win the game, alot of people might have paniced or tryed force it in there, but not Vince Young. He looked like he was playing backyard football that entire game.

[Cianne]

For his running style, I would say being very fast and powerful with the ability to drag defenders downfield will probaly translate pretty well to the NFL. I think he's about the same size as Daunte Culpepper but he is faster and seems to be more of a leader.

He's not what I would say is "very fast." Michael Vick is "very fast." Young's problem is that his running style is very side-to-side with shifts in weight instead of straight line speed. When he's running down the field, it almost looks like he's still in the pocket the way he ducks out of the way. The problem is in the NFL linebackers won't fall for that, and they tackle worlds' better than USC's lack of linebackers. That's why Ohio State was able to keep him in check, aside from one long one, running the ball because they're linebackers are very good.

Also, whoever says that running quarterbacks are the wave of the future need to look at where all the running back are. Michael Vick is watching the game with his now teamless brother. Daunte Culpepper tore everything in his leg. Jake Plummer used to be a runner but he didn't win until he became a drop back QB. Steve McNair is a walking infirmary because of the way he ran. It took a more mature, passing is primary Elway to win his Super Bowls (his helicopter spin into the endzone will forever be great however), and Steve Young knocked himself out of the NFL with concussions.

[GTmorris1970]

I wouldn't go quite that far. Mack Brown has never had a great reputation for developing players. In the NFL, Young will have coaches much more capable of successfully tweaking his throwing motion than he had in Austin.
They couldn't even get much out of Chris Simms who in his young NFL career has already proven himself to be a pretty decent quarterback.

Some NFL QB's simply have strange throwing motions. Donovan McNabb who was on my fantasy team this year comes to mind. Kind of an almost sideways motion sometimes. I'm sure they will work on it some, but completing passes and getting them over the line of scrimmage is the key. He seems to have no problem with that. His completion percentages are stupidly good. And, even though he may not be as fast as Vick, he is a load to bring down. I think he will be just fine in the NFL. :cool:

[fernandomike]

There ya go. Fixed it for ya. He needs a ton of work on it.

Ci, quit hating. Oh yeah, and don't "tweak" any more of my posts. :)

[crimsonnation713]

I think just as the lineman and linebackers are getting bigger faster and stronger , so do the QB's just for the sake of staying alive.....the days of the straight drop back are over and done...they have got to be mobile....not running backs...just mobile....Vick has GOT to learn to run less but as far as Young, he's going to be very good with the right coach and mentoring...the 4th quarter of the Rose Bowl proved that...as far as his technique,everybody has their own and I dont think you can say he throw it wrong when you watch how far he can throw it and how many completions/yards he had...and besides...we're here writing about it...he's living it!!!

[usafbamafan]

We forgot about it the next day.

Like Alabama, we have a shelf full of National Championships and like Notre Dame we have a room full of Heismans. (I haven't been since Reggie's was added, but the previous six looked pretty impressive. I have always figured that it was easier to convince recruits that they could be successful with a pile of those hanging around.)

We're a little too busy reloading to worry much about a loss here and there.


:cool: :cool:

You may be over it, but I doubt the team is. They were in a position to make history and had it slip between their fingers. Also, Leinart probably hurt his draft status by staying behind one more year.

[Cianne]

the days of the straight drop back are over and done

Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Byron Leftwich, Tom Brady, Chris Simms, and the Chicago platoon of Orton and Grossman. All of these are pure drop back QBs and all are in the playoffs. Neither Mark Brunell or Jake Delhomme are very mobile and tend to throw mostly from the pocket in 3 and 5 step drops. Jake Plummer is the only remaining QB that starts for a playoff team, and he's also the only one that throws more from the rollout than the drop back.

Therefore, the straight drop back days can't be done because they are the ones succeeding while Vick, Culpepper, McNabb, and to a lesser extent McNair, are all watching from a couch at home. Mobile QBs do not = playoff and Super Bowl victories. Drop back QBs are still and always will be the mainstay.

[Jordan]

Drop back QBs are still and always will be the mainstay.

I would used to have disagreed with this statement. But now with all the freaking rules protecting QBs in the pocket, they're the ones who will be least likely to be injured.

[Cianne]

I would used to have disagreed with this statement. But now with all the freaking rules protecting QBs in the pocket, they're the ones who will be least likely to be injured.

They put in the slide rule to protect the more mobile QBs and what do mobile QBs do 9/10 times? Go head first. Self defeating there.

[Jordan]

They put in the slide rule to protect the more mobile QBs and what do mobile QBs do 9/10 times? Go head first. Self defeating there.
Yeah, but I'm just saying.... if the NFL defenses tried half of the hits that are put on QBs in the SEC, they'd be flagged in a second. I think any QB that makes it through the SEC (and other physical conferences) unscarred stands a good chance of staying healthy in the pros. :)

[OmahaBound]

if Vince Young spends his career like Vick, McNabb, and Culpepper to this point, i'm sure he'll wipe his tears over not winning a Super Bowl with some of his 100 million dollars.

Vick hasn't won a super bowl because he's still a little too out of control, and last year was the only time that he's had a solid defense and a healthy offense. There's no reason to think he can't win a Super Bowl, but the key is the Falcons D, not Vick.

McNabb can hardly be criticized for being a mobile QB. For one, he's not that mobile anymore. His problem is all mental. He can make all the throws and all the plays, but he makes stupid decisions too often when he's not completely confident in himself and his team. They made it to the NFC Champ game a few years in a row before injuries and turmoil destroyed them this year.

Culpepper....well Culpepper's middle name is Fumbles. (I'm feeling to high-brow at the moment to go for a cruise joke....sorry to disappoint)


HOWEVER, I completely agree with you, Cianne, that drop-back passers will always be the standard in the NFL. It doesn't mean mobile QBs can't win the the Super Bowl though.

[Cianne]

HOWEVER, I completely agree with you, Cianne, that drop-back passers will always be the standard in the NFL. It doesn't mean mobile QBs can't win the the Super Bowl though.

I guess you could say that I'm against the foolish belief that is circling around in today's football that the super mobile "oh my god look at him run around those slower collegiate defenses" quarterbacks are the wave of evolution in football as we know it. Running quarterbacks aren't new as everyone knows, hi Randall Cunningham and pre-multiple concussions Steve Young, and they sure aren't the greatest football invention since the forward pass. My response was really more in line with crimson's belief that the drop back QB is dead which I point out is a crock.

In regards to McNabb, he was one of the evolutionary running QBs, but he changed the way he plays in order to both prolong his career by avoiding needless injuries and because that's what it takes to win. As people are starting to prove with Vick, if you get a good fast LB (see Thomas Davis against Vick) you can spy him all day and shut that down. It's always easier to shut down one person than four people any day of the week when people see it enough times. And in fact as a counterpoint to what crimson says, the faster the LBs get, the better the drop back QB is because he's going to be chased down in the hole or off tackle when he starts to scramble much quicker than someone who is delivering the ball on time from the pocket.

[crimsonnation713]

Therefore, the straight drop back days can't be done because they are the ones succeeding while Vick, Culpepper, McNabb, and to a lesser extent McNair, are all watching from a couch at home. Mobile QBs do not = playoff and Super Bowl victories. Drop back QBs are still and always will be the mainstay.[/QUOTE]


ummmm...sorry...I didnt mean this very minute...Brunell use to be mobile until injuries forced him to be otherwise...Peyton and Ben are slower than paint drying so they have no choice but to drop back...I watched Eli today...he doesnt know what he is yet so hes out..Tiki carried the Giants the last several games...and didnt Leftwich just heal up in time for the playoffs? The drop back QB will NOT always be the mainstay ....speed is the future of the game....players are getting too big and much too fast to just stay in a pocket....thats ridiculous and suicide

[supergenius]

You may be over it, but I doubt the team is. They were in a position to make history and had it slip between their fingers. Also, Leinart probably hurt his draft status by staying behind one more year.
Leinert is going to be the 2nd player taken, how did he hurt his status? RTR

[OmahaBound]

Leinert is going to be the 2nd player taken, how did he hurt his status? RTR

he's going to New Orleans Saints instead of San Francisco. How much more punishment could one man take?

then there are the minor things like smaller signing bonus being #2 instead #1, and the fact that no one remembers the specific draft position of anyone but #1. everyone else is just early first rounders after 10 years.

[Cianne]

speed is the future of the game....players are getting too big and much too fast to just stay in a pocket....thats ridiculous and suicide

So hurdling yourself straight into Ray Lewis is better than possibly delivering a pass and avoiding a hit? Roger that.

[Foxman]

So hurdling yourself straight into Ray Lewis is better than possibly delivering a pass and avoiding a hit? Roger that.

I seems to me that alot of you think that teams get people like Vick or V. Young so that they you can hike them the ball and see how far he gets before his head gets knocked off. That they want a one-man offense, basically.

Let's take a look at, ohh let's say, Jim Mora Jr. (head coach for Atlanta). He didn't get Vick to be a superhero or a Jesus or anything. He's a part of the West Coast Offense that is built around keeping a Defense on its heels. When you go up against Atlanta, you have to be responsible for every single person in the backfield. They have so many options as to who to run, who to fake it to, or who to pass it to. They will spread you out, then run a QB draw, or hand it off and fake a bootleg. You can't just sit there and spy Vick with a LB, and you can't just blitz the crap out of your fastest player. This whole offense thrives on messing with a Defense's mind.

And then again, if you're someone like Bill Belichick or Tony Dungy, you don't need a QB who can run a 4.4 40. You need someone who is cool, collected, and can drop back, read, and pick apart a Defense. It all depends on your coach's style.

Thats why someone like V. Young has the potential to be a great QB. Someone who thinks like Mora is going to get a great 1st rounder.

[Cianne]

You can't just sit there and spy Vick with a LB, and you can't just blitz the crap out of your fastest player. This whole offense thrives on messing with a Defense's mind.

You can spy him because that's what teams do. Stack the box, spy Vick, and force him to fail to throw because Jenkins, White, and Finneran aren't all that for a WR corps.

[GTmorris1970]

Posted on Sun, Jan. 08, 2006
Texas quarterback Vince Young going proBY JIMMY BURCHFort Worth Star-TelegramTexas quarterback Vince Young, a junior who led the Longhorns to a national championship in Wednesday's Rose Bowl, announced this afternoon that he will forego his final season at college and enter the 2006 NFL draft.
"I've decided to enter the draft this year and go to the NFL," Young said during a Sunday news conference in Austin. "(To) my coaches and my teammates and everybody who came in contact with me to make me better as an athlete, I just want to say, `Thank you.'"
Young (6-foot-5, 233 pounds), who racked up 467 yards of total offense in the Longhorns' 41-38 victory over Southern California, is projected by NFL draft analysts to be taken among the top three players in April's draft.
Young, winner of the 2005 Davey O'Brien National Quarterback Award and runner-up for the 2005 Heisman Trophy, finished 30-2 as Texas' starting quarterback in his college career. By leading the Longhorns back from a 38-26 deficit in the final 6:42 against USC, Young lifted Texas to a 13-0 record and the school's first national championship since 1970.
During the course of the 2005 season, Young became the first college football player to rush for more than 1,000 yards and pass for more than 3,000 yards in a season.
Although the Houston Texans, Young's hometown franchise, own the top pick in the 2006 draft, owner Bob McNair and team officials have given multiple public indications that they intend to select USC running back Reggie Bush with the top pick, assuming that Bush declares for the draft, as expected. Texans' officials say they remain statistified with existing quarterback David Carr.
The next two teams in the draft order, the New Orleans Saints and Tennessee Titans, both have need for a quarterback and have shown interest in Young. After Young's announcement, Fox NFL analyst and former Dallas Cowboys' coach Jimmy Johnson said on Sunday's telecast that he believes Young's Rose Bowl performance will make him "the second or third pick" in April.
"Obviously, you see the talent. He had a great Rose Bowl," Johnson told the Fox television audience. "He can run. He can throw. On and on. But then you hear all the interviews with his defensive players, the offensive line, the defensive backs. Every single one of them talked about what a great leader he was. And that's what you want for your football team. You want a great leader. . . . Now, I think the Houston Texans, because of David Carr, will probably still take Reggie Bush. He's the safe pick. But Vince Young moved himself up to the second or third pick."
Two fellow Fox analysts agreed that Young, who has been criticized by NFL scouts for a sidearm throwing motion, will be a success at the next level. Howie Long described Young as "a great guy to build your organization around."
Terry Bradshaw, a Hall of Fame quarterback during his playing days with the Pittsburgh Steelers, predicted that Young will be "a huge success in the NFL."
"Smart guy. Big-time program," Bradshaw said. "I, for one, cannot wait to see him in the NFL. And I predict this right now, without hesitation. Forget the delivery. It's quick, he's smart, he makes good decisions. He will be a huge success in the NFL."
With Young headed to the NFL, the frontrunner to become the Longhorns' quarterback in 2006 becomes Colt McCoy, who will be a redshirt freshman next fall.
McCoy would be pushed for the job by Jevan Snead, who has given an oral commitment to the Longhorns and plans to enroll for the spring semester so that he can go through spring drills in Austin.
Asked in the wake of the team's Rose Bowl triumph how Young's departure might affect the Longhorns, offensive coordinator Greg Davis said Thursday that it would be a "huge" loss to wave goodbye to Young.
"Offenses are quarterback-driven. There's no question about that. So, Vince's decision will be huge," Davis said. "But . . . we've won a bunch of games before (Vince) and hopefully we'll win a bunch after."
Texas coach Mack Brown said Young will be missed but has "done as much for the University of Texas as any single student

[GTmorris1970]

Sounds like some other pretty dog gone good NFL players think he is going to do very well also.

[crimsonnation713]

So hurdling yourself straight into Ray Lewis is better than possibly delivering a pass and avoiding a hit? Roger that.

having your feet in cement to LET Ray Lewis hit you..10-4 good buddy..over and out on this one....

[WayzUp]

I'm with Cianne on this. Vince Young won't be able to do half of what he does in the NFL because half the LB's up there are as fast or faster than he is and if doesn't fix that throwing motion, he's going to get 50% of his passes tipped at the line or batted down completely. Not to mention the NFL safeties are as big as most college LBs and hit just as hard....what it comes down to is the same thing it's come to for Michael Vick; Young is going to have to fix his mechanics and become more of a pocket passer than he is right now. It's really as simple as that so in my eyes, Young is another Michael Vick albeit a bit more polished. Some team will take him too early hoping for a Rose Bowl performance every Sunday and it's anyone's guess as to how successful he'll be but it's an absolute certainty that it won't be nearly as pretty as it was in Austin.

Plus, take away the Rose Bowl and Oklahoma State games & Young only averaged 53 yards rushing a game. And that's against the stout defenses of LA-Lafayette, Rice, Colorado (twice..57 then 58 yards), Texas Tech, Baylor and Kansas. Say the Saints grab him....how's he going to fare against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Carolina Panthers (when healthy) and Atlanta Falcons twice a year each? If the Titans get him, he's facing the Colts' D twice a year and the Jaguars' twice too.

I would pick Vince Young to be a WR if I were an NFL GM...which means I'd have him too low on my board to ever think about drafting him. Now that won't happen but that's why the Saints are the team they are....cuz they probably will. :D

ps: told you he'd go pro, silverbritches. ;)

[Jordan]

he's going to New Orleans Saints instead of San Francisco. How much more punishment could one man take?

then there are the minor things like smaller signing bonus being #2 instead #1, and the fact that no one remembers the specific draft position of anyone but #1. everyone else is just early first rounders after 10 years.
I think he's told the Saints that he will not play for them.

As for his staying behind, I think it was a good idea. This time last year he was horrible at reading the Defense without help from the sidelines, which made it near impossible for him to successfully call an audible. He's still not the BEST at it, but a lightyear ahead of many other QBs when they came out of school. B/c he had only an easy class, he was able to spend a lot of time studying game film (including pro film) and really increase his knowledge at the position.

Even if he's not a #1 pick anymore, I think he's in a much better position to transition into the NFL than he would have been last year. And I'm sure his salary won't be hurting any. :)

[nooneLT]

I'm with Cianne on this. Vince Young won't be able to do half of what he does in the NFL because half the LB's up there are as fast or faster than he is and if doesn't fix that throwing motion, he's going to get 50% of his passes tipped at the line or batted down completely. Not to mention the NFL safeties are as big as most college LBs and hit just as hard....what it comes down to is the same thing it's come to for Michael Vick; Young is going to have to fix his mechanics and become more of a pocket passer than he is right now. It's really as simple as that so in my eyes, Young is another Michael Vick albeit a bit more polished. Some team will take him too early hoping for a Rose Bowl performance every Sunday and it's anyone's guess as to how successful he'll be but it's an absolute certainty that it won't be nearly as pretty as it was in Austin.

Plus, take away the Rose Bowl and Oklahoma State games & Young only averaged 53 yards rushing a game. And that's against the stout defenses of LA-Lafayette, Rice, Colorado (twice..57 then 58 yards), Texas Tech, Baylor and Kansas. Say the Saints grab him....how's he going to fare against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Carolina Panthers (when healthy) and Atlanta Falcons twice a year each? If the Titans get him, he's facing the Colts' D twice a year and the Jaguars' twice too.

I would pick Vince Young to be a WR if I were an NFL GM...which means I'd have him too low on my board to ever think about drafting him. Now that won't happen but that's why the Saints are the team they are....cuz they probably will. :D

ps: told you he'd go pro, silverbritches. ;)

those numbers are deceiving...against LA-Lafayette, he rushed 7 times for 49 yards. against rice, he rushed 8 times for 77 yards. against colorado, 10 times for 58 yards the first time, 8 for 57 yards the second time.

[Noah.Dreams]

I seems to me that alot of you think that teams get people like Vick or V. Young so that they you can hike them the ball and see how far he gets before his head gets knocked off. That they want a one-man offense, basically.

Let's take a look at, ohh let's say, Jim Mora Jr. (head coach for Atlanta). He didn't get Vick to be a superhero or a Jesus or anything. He's a part of the West Coast Offense that is built around keeping a Defense on its heels. When you go up against Atlanta, you have to be responsible for every single person in the backfield. They have so many options as to who to run, who to fake it to, or who to pass it to. They will spread you out, then run a QB draw, or hand it off and fake a bootleg. You can't just sit there and spy Vick with a LB, and you can't just blitz the crap out of your fastest player. This whole offense thrives on messing with a Defense's mind.

And then again, if you're someone like Bill Belichick or Tony Dungy, you don't need a QB who can run a 4.4 40. You need someone who is cool, collected, and can drop back, read, and pick apart a Defense. It all depends on your coach's style.

Thats why someone like V. Young has the potential to be a great QB. Someone who thinks like Mora is going to get a great 1st rounder.
I've got your back on this one, buddy. Atlanta wins football games the old fashioned way... by leading the NFL in rushing for the last two years and passing to the tight end. If not for a few key defensive injuries, the Falcons could've a Super Bowl team. If they beef up this secondary, Atlanta will secure home field advantage next year.

I pity the fool that under estimates Michael Vick.

[WayzUp]

I've got your back on this one, buddy. Atlanta wins football games the old fashioned way... by leading the NFL in rushing for the last two years and passing to the tight end. If not for a few key defensive injuries, the Falcons could've a Super Bowl team. If they beef up this secondary, Atlanta will secure home field advantage next year.

I pity the fool that under estimates Michael Vick.
Atlanta leads the NFL in rushing because they have Vick's 600 or so yards to add to Warrick Dunn & TJ Duckett's totals. Look at their playcalling...they're not even in the top 5 in terms of run play to pass play ratio. I understand that they win games by having the threat of Vick running but they also lose more games than not when he inevitably gets hurt doing it.

They also lead the league in seasons ruined due to QB injury over the past 5 years. At least Matt Schaub looked like a helluva lot better fill-in for Vick than Doug Johnson has in years past....maybe the Falcons should draft Marcus Vick too so they can back up Michael Vick with a younger version of him so they can go two deep at the run-first, pass second type quarterback. ;)

the only reason they (VICK) passes to the TE so much is because he can't throw it down the field to his WR's well enough & is usually seeing Crumpler late as a safety valve. It's not like the TE is a huge part of their offense...he's Michael Vicks' security blanket, nothing more. Tony Gonzalez would be wasted in Atlanta's offense....any down-the-field TE would. Dat not guud.

[blues_cap]

You can spy him because that's what teams do. Stack the box, spy Vick, and force him to fail to throw because Jenkins, White, and Finneran aren't all that for a WR corps.

from what i have seen, they dont spy him near as much as they did when he first came into the league. i think the dc's finally figured out that even if they spy him with the defense's best player, he cant tackle vick one on one. why waste your best lb trying to spy him?

[ColonelKurtz]

from what i have seen, they dont spy him near as much as they did when he first came into the league. i think the dc's finally figured out that even if they spy him with the defense's best player, he cant tackle vick one on one. why waste your best lb trying to spy him?

Good point, only a few teams possess the depth of talent to do that. When Mora brought in the WCO, he effectively nuked 50% of Vicks' lethality, something those with short term memories will not agree with, but in the Dan Reeves' system, he was far more effective imo.

Vince is smart to make the leap, how effective he can be will be one of the more debated topics from here on out, but there is no denying his lethality with the ball in his hands. As rangey as he is, that quirky throwing motion in the pocket would be significant liability against your typical NFL styled pass rush as all of the Pro's do a really good job of using their wingspans to bat down passes. Then again, as quick as Young is, getting outside to avoid it might be as good a way to use him as any.

Now making a WR outta him appeals to me, great speed, long arms, athleticism, but like Matt Jones, he'll need time to learn the position. Given the usual 2-3 seasons for a College QB to adjust to the NFL, moving him would mean that he could be productive far quicker.....and in my view, far richer if he has an agent who is looking out for his best interests.

[uscrebel]

Here are my problems with the Vick-style QB's in the NFL.

First, just plain durability. Look at the difference in longevity between the typical NFL QB and the typical NFL running back. While lasting twenty years in the NFL is a rare event, it is usually QB's, not RB's that make it that far. Vick has already missed more games than Peyton, despite having been in the NFL three years less time. Same goes for McNabb and Culpepper. It seems that the Vanderbilt Medical Center has a seat reserved in the waiting room for McNair.

Second, offenses for QB's like Vick and VY have to be designed specifically for them. When they do go down...and the DO GO DOWN...it is very difficult for the backup to step in and run anything close to the whole playbook. This year with Vick playing in all but one game, the Falcons were a miserable 8-8...imagine how bad it could have been without Vick.

Third, at some point getting knocked on your pins over and over again takes a toll on your decision-making. These are very big men in the professional game. They are also quite fast. VY is big and fast, but he is going to be the prey, not the hunter. It was cool to see him hurdling 225 pound linebackers in college...in the NFL they are 245-250 pounds.

Will he be fun to watch. Sure. He was nothing short of magnificent in the Rose Bowl. Probably made a bunch of people rethink their Heisman vote. I would still rather have him at WR or TE than QB.

[GeauxTo]

Vince Young entering the NFL draft will help LSU's chances of playing in the BCS national championship game next season. LSU has already been preseason picked No. 1 by The Herd on ESPN Radio. Texas would probably be preseason picked to finish No.1 by several publications had Vincent decided to remain in school for his senior season. Texas will probably still be preseason picked in the top five. As of today, no one from LSU has announced that they will enter the NFL draft, but there is a possibelity that LaRon Landry and DaWayne Bowe will enter the draft, most likely Landry and not Bowe.

[ColonelKurtz]

Vince Young entering the NFL draft will help LSU's chances of playing in the BCS national championship game next season. LSU has already been preseason picked No. 1 by The Herd on ESPN Radio. Texas would probably be preseason picked to finish No.1 by several publications had Vincent decided to remain in school for his senior season. Texas will probably still be preseason picked in the top five. As of today, no one from LSU has announced that they will enter the NFL draft, but there is a possibelity that LaRon Landry and DaWayne Bowe will enter the draft, most likely Landry and not Bowe.

Don't set yourself up like the vollies did GT, falling from that height hurts more than just one's pride. :D

[GeauxTo]

Don't set yourself up like the vollies did GT, falling from that height hurts more than just one's pride. :D
Good advice, for sure. However, we all know that Colin Cowherd is an absolute genius at predicting college football.
:p

[supergenius]

Good advice, for sure. However, we all know that Colin Cowherd is an absolute genius at predicting college football.
:p
Cowherd is one of the leading reasons that satellite radio is booming. He is pretty bad. RTR

[fernandomike]

You guys make it sound as if the Vick experiment has been a complete disaster. I'd say that his grade right now would be an incomplete. He finally has some decent receivers to throw to though they are too young to be considered quality by NFL standards. Vick has dealt with a less than mediocre group throughout his entire time in the league. Let's wait until he gets some targets outside of Crumpler before considering him a failure.

[supergenius]

You guys make it sound as if the Vick experiment has been a complete disaster. I'd say that his grade right now would be an incomplete. He finally has some decent receivers to throw to though they are too young to be considered quality by NFL standards. Vick has dealt with a less than mediocre group throughout his entire time in the league. Let's wait until he gets some targets outside of Crumpler before considering him a failure.
Vick as been subpar @ best. He often disappears in big games and rarely beats you with his arm. He has a very talented backfield behind him and an above average offensive line in front of him. He is often erradic and is prone to making poor decisons. He is in the lower 3rd in the qb pecking order of the NFL. RTR

[fernandomike]

Vick as been subpar @ best. He often disappears in big games and rarely beats you with his arm. He has a very talented backfield behind him and an above average offensive line in front of him. He is often erradic and is prone to making poor decisons. He is in the lower 3rd in the qb pecking order of the NFL. RTR

I do agree with you about the backfield and the offensive line, but you make no mention of his receivers. Further, your comment about him being in the lower third is ridiculous.

[supergenius]

I do agree with you about the backfield and the offensive line, but you make no mention of his receivers. Further, your comment about him being in the lower third is ridiculous.
Let's see Nando, is Mr.Mexico better than:
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Carson Palmer
4. Matt Hasselbeck
5. Jake Plummer
6. Donavan McNabb
7. Ben R.
8. Marc Bulger
9.Drew Bledsoe
10.Byron Leftwich
11. Daunte Culpepper
12. Jake Delhomme
13.Rex Grossman :D
Ok,maybe not the bottom tier but the 2nd tier for sure.

RTR

[fernandomike]

Let's see Nando, is Mr.Mexico better than:
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Carson Palmer
4. Matt Hasselbeck
5. Jake Plummer
6. Donavan McNabb
7. Ben R.
8. Marc Bulger
9.Drew Bledsoe
10.Byron Leftwich
11. Daunte Culpepper
12. Jake Delhomme
13.Rex Grossman :D
Ok,maybe not the bottom tier but the 2nd tier for sure.

RTR

Thank you...er...Supergenius for proving my point. And yes, he is much better than Rex Grossman. Also, keep in mind how McNabb's statistics suddenly went through the roof last season after the Eagles acquired TO. Like Vick, McNabb was throwing to very subpar receivers. Football is a team sport where your own success is heavily dependent on those around you doing their jobs well. You are just not going to lead the league in passing when your options are Peerless Price and Brian Finneran. These are the kind of guys he has had to work with for his entire career.

[ColonelKurtz]

'nando, I hope you're not including me with those you consider degrading Vick. I'm of the opinion that the WCO isn't the mechanism to maximize his effectiveness under Center. The Falcons DO NOT possess the elements for it to flurish and without wholesale changes, will not again in '06.

Atlanta didn't have the OL to run much of anything and you're right, outside of Crumpler, who did he have that he could throw to and who would catch it with any consistency? If not for the superhuman efforts of Dunn, the Falcon offense would have been far worse than it was.

[Noah.Dreams]

Let's see Nando, is Mr.Mexico better than:
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Carson Palmer
4. Matt Hasselbeck
5. Jake Plummer
6. Donavan McNabb
7. Ben R.
8. Marc Bulger
9.Drew Bledsoe
10.Byron Leftwich
11. Daunte Culpepper
12. Jake Delhomme
13.Rex Grossman :D
Ok,maybe not the bottom tier but the 2nd tier for sure.

RTRI wouldn't trade Michael Vick for anyone below 3. Let's just hope that Jenkins and White pan out at WR...

[Noah.Dreams]

We forgot about it the next day.

Like Alabama, we have a shelf full of National Championships and like Notre Dame we have a room full of Heismans. (I haven't been since Reggie's was added, but the previous six looked pretty impressive. I have always figured that it was easier to convince recruits that they could be successful with a pile of those hanging around.)

We're a little too busy reloading to worry much about a loss here and there.


:cool: :cool:
there's always next year...