Tookie Williams

[sportsgirl]

What about that Tookie Williams? I'll have him and his family in my prayers tonight. I can't say whether or not he has found redemption or has adequately "made up for" his crimes through his children's books and speaking out against gangs. I think to even go down that road takes us on a slippery slope. If we begin releasing death row inmates from their death sentences because they "found redemption" then we'll have to develop an objective test for redemption. How would that test look? The only way we can know whether or not someone has TRULY changed is to look at their hearts and only God can do that. We can only see behavior. He's certainly done a lot of good things for his community while on death row, but you know, he's had a lot of time on his hands.... :eek: There have also been a lot of other killers who have claimed to have found God while in prison. Jeffrey Dahmer supposedly had a true conversion experience as well as David Berkowitz. Berkowitz even has his own website about this and he's very convincing:

www.forgivenforlife.com

Along these lines, here's a funny story I heard the other day:

A man dies and enters heaven. Upon entering there he is shocked at some of the people he sees. There's the bully who used to beat up on him in middle school, and there's the mean babysitter who used to pull his ears. He even saw some criminals who had been well-known in the news. He was aghast at this and went directly to Jesus to get the scoop. He asked, "Lord, why are so many sinners in heaven? I didn't think it would be like this. And furthermore, I thought heaven would be happy and full of laughter and music. It's really quiet here and people are just sitting around with their mouths open. Why?" Jesus answered, "They're all really shocked to see YOU here." :p

[Cianne]

Well if Mr. Berkowitz, Tookie, or whoever have really found redemption, then they will have nothing to fear in the afterlife. Otherwise, they're going to catch a bit more hell for lying about it.

[RW13]

I have "experience" with death penalty cases. I'll say this, executing the man who comitted the murders does not bring peace, closure, or anything good to the victims family/friends. But I'm still in favor of the guy dying b/c of what he did, it may not solve anything but he shouldn't be allowed to live....

[jneesy]

this fool deserves to die alot worse death than he's gonna get

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051212/capt.fx10212122137.stanley_tookie_williams_fx102.j pg?x=195&y=345&sig=EckwrBNexNcAW002el17HQ--

[RW13]

Yeah, that is one thing, watching someone die by lethal injection is nothing, they just look like they'll fall asleep. What a way to go, if only their victims had had it so easy....

[jneesy]

There Once Was A Gang Banger Named Tookie,
From Death Row He Would Love To Play Hooky,
As A Cause Celebre He Was First Class,
But Shortly He Be Snorting The Gas,
As For Old Tooky, Things Are Looking Very Spooky.

[ColonelKurtz]

Believe as you will, but there can be no forgiveness in any fashion for the actions of an animal like Tookie. His death will rid another imperfect strain of DNA from the pool, sorta like man stepping in where Mother Nature dallies. Fact is, since there are so many billions of us now, it is simply a statistical probability that other deficient strands of DNA pollute the pool and the sooner THEY are eliminated, so much the better.

[AceLeroy]

What about that Tookie Williams? I'll have him and his family in my prayers tonight. I can't say whether or not he has found redemption or has adequately "made up for" his crimes through his children's books and speaking out against gangs. I think to even go down that road takes us on a slippery slope. If we begin releasing death row inmates from their death sentences because they "found redemption" then we'll have to develop an objective test for redemption. How would that test look? The only way we can know whether or not someone has TRULY changed is to look at their hearts and only God can do that. We can only see behavior. He's certainly done a lot of good things for his community while on death row, but you know, he's had a lot of time on his hands.... :eek: There have also been a lot of other killers who have claimed to have found God while in prison. Jeffrey Dahmer supposedly had a true conversion experience as well as David Berkowitz. Berkowitz even has his own website about this and he's very convincing:

www.forgivenforlife.com

Along these lines, here's a funny story I heard the other day:

A man dies and enters heaven. Upon entering there he is shocked at some of the people he sees. There's the bully who used to beat up on him in middle school, and there's the mean babysitter who used to pull his ears. He even saw some criminals who had been well-known in the news. He was aghast at this and went directly to Jesus to get the scoop. He asked, "Lord, why are so many sinners in heaven? I didn't think it would be like this. And furthermore, I thought heaven would be happy and full of laughter and music. It's really quiet here and people are just sitting around with their mouths open. Why?" Jesus answered, "They're all really shocked to see YOU here." :p

Well I don't see how someone can "makeup for" murdering someone unless they have the power to give back that persons life.

It really pisses me off to see celebrities stand up for killers like this but yet you never see them stand up for VICTIMS of violent crimes. I saw Jesse Jackson and Jamie Foxx stand up for this killer on tv. Why don't they ever stand up for a Victim????

My sister was raped and stabbed to death 20 years ago by a man that did it just because he was that mean. Now , he claims to have "found God" and wants to contribute to society.

What chance did he give my sister to contribute to society?

[cocky4ever]

Well I don't see how someone can "makeup for" murdering someone unless they have the power to give back that persons life.

It really pisses me off to see celebrities stand up for killers like this but yet you never see them stand up for VICTIMS of violent crimes. I saw Jesse Jackson and Jamie Foxx stand up for this killer on tv. Why don't they ever stand up for a Victim????

My sister was raped and stabbed to death 20 years ago by a man that did it just because he was that mean. Now , he claims to have "found God" and wants to contribute to society.

What chance did he give my sister to contribute to society?

I agree. No matter what he has done in the time after committing the crimes, he still must pay for what he did. He murdered a whole family, not to mention the countless other crimes that he probably didnt get convicted of. I mean, this is one of the men responsible for organizing the crips. Im sure this gang has cost countless lives in this country and Im also sure that he had an idea of what this gang would do before he helped start it. Im glad that he used his time to try and help tell others to stay out of gangs, but that doesnt fix all the bad things he has already done which is what he's being punished for.

[sportsgirl]

Well I don't see how someone can "makeup for" murdering someone unless they have the power to give back that persons life.

It really pisses me off to see celebrities stand up for killers like this but yet you never see them stand up for VICTIMS of violent crimes. I saw Jesse Jackson and Jamie Foxx stand up for this killer on tv. Why don't they ever stand up for a Victim????

My sister was raped and stabbed to death 20 years ago by a man that did it just because he was that mean. Now , he claims to have "found God" and wants to contribute to society.

What chance did he give my sister to contribute to society?


I agree Ace, I was also saying that I don't know how a person can "make up for" a crime, particularly murder or murder(s). It's horrible and sad how innocent lives like your sister's are taken so viciously by evil people.

I am only human and have natural human feelings, including disgust and rage. When people like Jeffrey Dahmer are killed, I can't deny some satisfaction that comes from that, but, as others have said, seeing a murderer murdered often does nothing to relieve the grief of those loved ones left behind to carry memories. Just as the killer can do nothing to make up for his killing, I feel his death cannot make up for other deaths. It's too late by then.

I've never had to suffer through the loss of a loved one due to a violent murder. I hope I never have to. I don't know how I might feel should that happen. I imagine I will want to kill the person with my bare hands, if given the chance, and ESPECIALLY if it were my child... That's certainly what the vengeance side of me would say to do. Somewhere at my core, I just believe that many of us have the capacity for violent actions given the right circumstances, upbringing, traumas, relationships, etc. I have NO sympathy for vile killers, NONE, but in my heart I know that all human beings should be given the opportunity at redemption. Whether or not they find it is between them and God. And, yes, while you are getting your redemption.... stay in jail... forever.

A few years ago there was an HBO movie about the homosexual teenager who was killed in a hate crime. I can't remember the name of the movie. The murder took place in a small town in either Wyoming or Montana... Wyoming, I believe. Some of you may know what I'm talking about. This teenager was killed by two other teens. He was beaten to near death then tied to a post and left to die. At the sentencing hearing, the father of the boy was able to speak to the judge and the two killers. The father stated, basically, that although he hated these two young men for taking his son and the lack of mercy they showed him in his final hours of life, he did not wish to see them die. He said he felt this would be too easy a way out for what they had done. He also said that he wanted to show the mercy to them that they did not show to his son, for one reason... he wanted those boys to think of his son and his son's death every day that they lived. He wanted those boys to live knowing the only reason they are still alive is because of the boy they so savagely beat to death. I thought this father's actions took a lot of fortitude and even wisdom.

Ok, let the angry blastings begin... :)

[Cianne]

A few years ago there was an HBO movie about the homosexual teenager who was killed in a hate crime. I can't remember the name of the movie.

The Laramie Project was the name of the movie. Also there is a play that spawned off of the killing called Angels in America. In regards to the father in the movie, it was in his own opinion that the two boys living with the guilt who be the ultimate form of punishment. However, for someone like Tookie Williams that most likely killed his own fair share of opposing gang members, this kind of remorse just doesn't exist.

[AceLeroy]

A killer has plenty of time for redemption. Look at tookie. He has been on Death Row for years. If he hasn't made his peace with God after all those years and especially in the last few months knowing he was going to die , then he probably isn't going to.

As far as his children books on gangs , that was most likely done at the suggestion of a lawyer as an attempt to get him off death row.

Maybe his books do serve as a deterent to scare kids away from joining gangs , then again , maybe putting him to death is a better deterent.

[jneesy]

he is dead and the world is beyyer for it