remeber the hit [Archive] - SECTalk Forums

Neo

08-26-2005, 08:32 PM

Good they need to do something,that hit with Brown was crazy.It was clearly a spear and he took his helmet off and no call on either.

What a crock of s&*^! If that was a spear, then I'm Foghorn Leghorn. I think a few of you need to read up on the definition of "Spearing". :rolleyes:

The article pretty much quotes the definition of spearing....

"Spearing generally brings to mind a tackler lowering his head and planting his helmet into another player's body."

Hitting someone with the forehead part of the helmet is not spearing. Spearing is the act of using the TOP of the helmet to hit the opposing player.

Personally, this may anger the UGA fans, but oh well. In my book, that hit was clean and legal. Where the AU player screwed up was taking his helmet off while still on the field. :cool:

autiger1126

08-26-2005, 08:58 PM

i agree completely with neo. if you go back and look at the video, rosegreen looked like he was in the middle of loading up for a big hit. the helmet contact was with rosegreens facemask

Djshockley3

08-26-2005, 09:10 PM

Rebeldrummer

08-26-2005, 09:11 PM

Hitting the head is illegal any way you slices it ..

autiger1126

08-26-2005, 09:15 PM

he would have hit the body if reggie had jumped higher. what do you want him to do, DUCK HIS HEAD where he can hit the body?

Rebeldrummer

08-26-2005, 09:18 PM

he would have hit the body if reggie had jumped higher. what do you want him to do, DUCK HIS HEAD where he can hit the body?

yes poor auburn player is getting picked on ..:rolleyes: .... until youwatched a man lay paralyzed on the grass .. and atrophy away to nothing in a few weeks you will be sticking up for them . Rosegreen is lucky

Djshockley3

08-26-2005, 09:21 PM

yes poor auburn player is getting picked on ..:rolleyes: .... until youwatched a man lay paralyzed on the grass .. and atrophy away to nothing in a few weeks you will be sticking up for them . Rosegreen is lucky

Yeah,and on top of that he acted like a pure idiot.He got up and took his helmet off and rubbed it in Reggie's face pretty much.

autiger1126

08-26-2005, 09:21 PM

yes poor auburn player is getting picked on .. .... until youwatched a man lay paralyzed on the grass .. and atrophy away to nothing in a few weeks you will be sticking up for them . Rosegreen is lucky
could you rephrase that? can't understand who you are trying to make fun of?

autiger1126

08-26-2005, 09:24 PM

it was a big hit that forced a fumble. he didn't even know knocked him out. he was wrong to take off his helmet but don't tell me that every player doesn't celebrate when they make a big hit.

nooneLT

08-26-2005, 09:25 PM

if it was in the nfl it woulda been a penalty, but by ncaa's definition, it was clean. you're never supposed to lead off with your helmet, it's not just for the opponents sake, it's for your sake too.

Djshockley3

08-26-2005, 09:29 PM

it was a big hit that forced a fumble. he didn't even know knocked him out. he was wrong to take off his helmet but don't tell me that every player doesn't celebrate when they make a big hit.

Dude,he acted like a pure moron after the play.I mean,it was terrible.I cannot stand Rosegreen and that play makes me hate AU even more.

autiger1126

08-26-2005, 09:36 PM

Djshockley3

08-26-2005, 09:41 PM

i've never seen thomas davis or odell thurman or david pollack celebrate after a play.... god i hate uga for that. they celebrate in college football, they've got 90,000 people cheering when they see that big hit, who can blame then. again, he shouldn't have taken his helmet off. other than that he did nothing different than anyone else.

Hey what grade are you in can you give us some punctuation.And as for the celbration thing if Odell or Thomas would have done that they would have been way more worried than he was.Because they are not thugs like your boy Rosegreen.Speaking of him where is he at,not the NFL,lol. :D

autiger1126

08-26-2005, 09:50 PM

Hey what grade are you in can you give us some punctuation.And as for the celbration thing if Odell or Thomas would have done that they would have been way more worried than he was.Because they are not thugs like your boy Rosegreen.Speaking of him where is he at,not the NFL,lol. :D
sorry, us cow college guys don't use punctuation. how about a space after periods and commas. lol at odell not being a thug. he was only arrested and kicked off the team at uga. what a moron you are. no auburn player has been arrested in over 2 years. oh yeah, and right now, rosegreen is playing with the seahawks. how old are you? i'm a sophmore in college.

autiger1126

08-26-2005, 09:51 PM

rosegreen was kneeling next to him praying for him after the celebration was over and he realized he was hurt.

Djshockley3

08-26-2005, 09:52 PM

sorry, us cow college guys don't use punctuation. how about a space after periods and commas. lol at odell not being a thug. he was only arrested and kicked off the team at uga. what a moron you are. no auburn player has been arrested in over 2 years. oh yeah, and right now, rosegreen is playing with the seahawks. how old are you? i'm a sophmore in college.

Well Odell had some problems and I did not know he played at Seattle,he did not get drafted did he?

autiger1126

08-26-2005, 09:54 PM

no, he didn't. he'll probably get cut by the seahawks though. it wasn't the best choice for him to tryout there.

Djshockley3

08-26-2005, 09:56 PM

no, he didn't. he'll probably get cut by the seahawks though. it wasn't the best choice for him to tryout there.

Yeah,well I think it was a spear and you do not.So that should be the end of the discussion.Its in the past and I am just looking forward to Football season,man this is going to be a long week. :D

Neo

08-27-2005, 03:51 PM

Oh neo,if that would have been a USC player you and everyone would have been saying Spear,Spear. :D

:rolleyes:

First of all, you're letting your bias shine through. Hitting someone with the forehead of a helmet is NOT spearing no matter how bad you want it to be. :cool:

AuburnandGamecockGirl

08-27-2005, 07:32 PM

Even though I agree that it was a hard hit, I don't believe Rosegreen did it intentionally. Why would he have done it intentionally when the same hit could have made him paralyzed as well? Junior Rosegreen called Reggie Brown afterwards to apologize to him and make sure he was OK. That shows class to me. I am just glad that both of them were ok afterwards. I don't want anyone to get hurt playing football...on my team or anyone else's. I think this new rule is a good one though...Spearing, no matter whether it was intentional or not, should be illegal.

AceLeroy

08-27-2005, 09:22 PM

I have never seen footage of this hit , only the still photo that Auburn fans love to use in their posts.

I would like to see it for myself.

JerryBeeds

08-27-2005, 09:46 PM

I have never seen footage of this hit , only the still photo that Auburn fans love to use in their posts.

I would like to see it for myself.

Google is a wonderful thing my friend... :) ;)

AuburnandGamecockGirl

08-27-2005, 10:18 PM

Google is a wonderful thing my friend... :) ;)

I have been searching on Google, but can't find the video or picture of the hit....can anyone else find it...if you do, please post it.

autiger1126

08-27-2005, 10:34 PM

rosegreen hit video (http://media2.aunews.net/download.aspx?CID=M8UgO09w6VZU7xZjA3cNZ4p%2bbyVvr5 pTqh5SopozrK2qbbx7IdtwCaghq36cOKlg9Iz89h2FMZ%2fnX7 6HAJmlMgD1Kbmr05U5oxrKmtKVo1I%3d)
6.5MB

AuburnandGamecockGirl

08-27-2005, 10:48 PM

rosegreen hit video (http://media2.aunews.net/download.aspx?CID=M8UgO09w6VZU7xZjA3cNZ4p%2bbyVvr5 pTqh5SopozrK2qbbx7IdtwCaghq36cOKlg9Iz89h2FMZ%2fnX7 6HAJmlMgD1Kbmr05U5oxrKmtKVo1I%3d)
6.5MB

Thanks for the link, autiger1126....

Reggie Brown was sliding down when Junior Rosegreen hit him. If Reggie hadn't been in the middle of sliding down, Rosegreen would have hit him with his helmet in the stomach on the way down. I see Rosegreen took off his helmet, but it looked to me that he took off his helmet when he realized Reggie was hurt so badly. He has a look of concern in his eyes. I don't think he removed his helmet in celebration. The whole stadium was terrified the entire time. Auburn and Georgia fans together began to chant "Reggie." To say that Auburn fans support a dirty hit is insane. I do agree that he led with his helmet. I don't think it was intentional, but the way the rule was worded before was confusing. I am glad that they saw the need to re-word the rule and outlaw spearing altogether. With the new wording of the rule, Rosegreen would have gotten and would have deserved to get penalized for that (including a game suspension). Getting a spinal cord injury in a football game and having to live with it the rest of your life is not worth it.

usafbamafan

08-28-2005, 01:06 AM

That was clearly a spear, and intentional or not, He should have been penalized. I really don't believe he was attempting to spear him, but defensive players have to learn that attempting to hit a wide reciever over the middle with your head ducked can kill someone. The players safety should always take priority over anything else.

BubbaVol

08-28-2005, 03:12 PM

What a crock of s&*^! If that was a spear, then I'm Foghorn Leghorn. I think a few of you need to read up on the definition of "Spearing". :rolleyes:

The article pretty much quotes the definition of spearing....

"Spearing generally brings to mind a tackler lowering his head and planting his helmet into another player's body."

Hitting someone with the forehead part of the helmet is not spearing. Spearing is the act of using the TOP of the helmet to hit the opposing player.

Personally, this may anger the UGA fans, but oh well. In my book, that hit was clean and legal. Where the AU player screwed up was taking his helmet off while still on the field. :cool:

Well, it's good to meet you Mr Horn. You can not initiate contact with any portion of the helmet. By definition spearing (NFHS rule2 section39) is the intentional use of the helmet in an attempt to punish an opponent. Further study shows that (NFHS rule9 section4 article3i-j) No player or nonplayer shall Butt block, face tackle, or spear. Nor shall he intentionally use his helmet to butt or ram an opponent. By using the terms spear (refering to the top of the helmet), butt (refering to a head butt the forehead region), and face tackle (refering to the face mask) pretty much covers all portions of the helmet except the back and I'm fairly certain that would draw a flag too.

I've referenced the high school rule book, but the college rules for this matter are pretty much the same. They have not removed the word intentional from our rule book, but 9-4-3i does not mention intent, so that is the rule we reference when calling the penalty and the coach wants to argue intent.

Neo

08-28-2005, 03:40 PM

Well, it's good to meet you Mr Horn. You can not initiate contact with any portion of the helmet. By definition spearing (NFHS rule2 section39) is the intentional use of the helmet in an attempt to punish an opponent. Further study shows that (NFHS rule9 section4 article3i-j) No player or nonplayer shall Butt block, face tackle, or spear. Nor shall he intentionally use his helmet to butt or ram an opponent. By using the terms spear (refering to the top of the helmet), butt (refering to a head butt the forehead region), and face tackle (refering to the face mask) pretty much covers all portions of the helmet except the back and I'm fairly certain that would draw a flag too.

I've referenced the high school rule book, but the college rules for this matter are pretty much the same. They have not removed the word intentional from our rule book, but 9-4-3i does not mention intent, so that is the rule we reference when calling the penalty and the coach wants to argue intent.

The key section is bolded. This isn't HS football we're talking about. Here are the NCAA rules smart guy.... :rolleyes:

As of 2001:
"The rules prohibit players from spearing, from intentionally using the helmet, including the face mask, to butt or ram an opponent, or to strike a runner with the crown or top of the helmet"

http://www.ncaa.org/releases/rules/2001/2001021601ru.htm

As of March 2005:
http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/football/2005/2005_football_rules_changes.pdf

Now what do you have to say???? Consider yourself...

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/2994/ownedcat3xc.th.jpg (http://img313.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ownedcat3xc.jpg)

BubbaVol

08-28-2005, 03:54 PM

Well i'm not sure that I'm owned since I told you my source, you quoted the college rule which is just about the same wording as in the high school manual, and I stated that they were pretty much the same to begin with.

Since you stated that spearing was using the top of the helmet, I wanted you to understand that the spirit of the rule covers the entire helmet. Then you come back qouting the college version of the same rule which includes the whole helmet. The penalty is personal foul illegal helmet contact or use of the helmet 15 yards from the end of the run no matter the intent or part of the helmet used. Some officials will say spearing, because the fans and media know the term.

Neo

08-28-2005, 04:04 PM

Well i'm not sure that I'm owned since I told you my source, you quoted the college rule which is just about the same wording as in the high school manual, and I stated that they were pretty much the same to begin with.

Okay, time for class..... :cool:

There is a difference. You're talking about the HIGH SCHOOL rules, not the college rules. BIG DIFFERENCE!

Since you stated that spearing was using the top of the helmet, I wanted you to understand that the spirit of the rule covers the entire helmet.

The link below was the official NCAA rules on spearing as of 2001.

http://www.ncaa.org/releases/rules/2001/2001021601ru.htm

"The rules prohibit players from spearing, from intentionally using the helmet, including the face mask, to butt or ram an opponent, or to strike a runner with the crown or top of the helmet"

Here are the rules that were updated as of March of 2005.
http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/football/2005/2005_football_rules_changes.pdf

Now, going back and considering that the game was played back in 2004, the rules would then be enforced from the example I gave above from 2001 since the rules were just changed a few months ago. So, by using simple logic and intellect, you can then say that in fact, the hit was NOT a spear per the NCAA rules at that time. :cool:

usafbamafan

08-28-2005, 05:13 PM

Okay, time for class..... :cool:

There is a difference. You're talking about the HIGH SCHOOL rules, not the college rules. BIG DIFFERENCE!

The link below was the official NCAA rules on spearing as of 2001.

http://www.ncaa.org/releases/rules/2001/2001021601ru.htm

"The rules prohibit players from spearing, from intentionally using the helmet, including the face mask, to butt or ram an opponent, or to strike a runner with the crown or top of the helmet"

Here are the rules that were updated as of March of 2005.
http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/football/2005/2005_football_rules_changes.pdf

Now, going back and considering that the game was played back in 2004, the rules would then be enforced from the example I gave above from 2001 since the rules were just changed a few months ago. So, by using simple logic and intellect, you can then say that in fact, the hit was NOT a spear per the NCAA rules at that time. :cool:

I am sure that if someone was killed by one of those shots their parents would be so comforted by the fact that he had not TECHNICALLY broken the rules. The important thing is the NCAA understands that hits like that should be illegall whether intentional or not.

Neo, seems to me that you care more about winning an argument than realizing hits like that are wrong, legal or not.

SPURED

08-28-2005, 09:13 PM

i dont know but that was one hard hit. and i didnt see a look of concern on his face when he took his helmet off. it looked more to me like he thought he had just done something incredible. i hate seeing hits like these because i fractured my 7th vertabrae in the cervical part of the spinal chord(which is in the bottom of your neck.) on a hit Identicle to this one during practice in high school. and the guy who hit me just so happens to be wearing #10 for the gamecocks. and since that hit my back and neck is in constant pain. so hits like these legal or not shouldnt be tolerated at all.

Neo

08-28-2005, 10:18 PM

I am sure that if someone was killed by one of those shots their parents would be so comforted by the fact that he had not TECHNICALLY broken the rules. The important thing is the NCAA understands that hits like that should be illegall whether intentional or not.

Neo, seems to me that you care more about winning an argument than realizing hits like that are wrong, legal or not.

Since when did the sport of football become so "pansieish"? There are risks to each and every sport and these athletes know of these risks. Do you hear all of this whining in auto racing? What about hockey? Injuries and risks are part of the game. :cool:

Hey, it's like the old saying.... S*&% happens. You knew what you were getting into when you strapped on that helmet. :cool: You don't see me "Boo Hooing" over my blown knees.

USA,
You don't know a thing about me so don't presume to tell me how I feel. In fact, isn't that what the thread is about? Whether or not the hit was legal???? :rolleyes:

If you aren't tough enough to play the sport and take your licks, keep your butt in the stands.

usafbamafan

08-28-2005, 11:12 PM

Since when did the sport of football become so "pansieish"? There are risks to each and every sport and these athletes know of these risks. Do you hear all of this whining in auto racing? What about hockey? Injuries and risks are part of the game. :cool:

Hey, it's like the old saying.... S*&% happens. You knew what you were getting into when you strapped on that helmet. :cool: You don't see me "Boo Hooing" over my blown knees.

USA,
You don't know a thing about me so don't presume to tell me how I feel. In fact, isn't that what the thread is about? Whether or not the hit was legal???? :rolleyes:

If you aren't tough enough to play the sport and take your licks, keep your butt in the stands.
.
So predictable Neo.

I never said football should be a sport without risks. However, No matter which level of football you play, from Highschool, to College, to Pros, there are rules designed to keep the players as safe as possible without ruining the game. If he had hit someone like that in the pros he would be heavily fined.

I won't argue about whether it broke the rule that had been established at the time, but any reasonable person can see that it was a spear. His intentions are impossible to judge, that is why the rule was changed.

Suffering from broken limbs, torn acl's or broken collarbones are all injuries that are impossible to prevent without ruining the game. However, keeping kids from having their spines shattered and being parapalegic or dead is easier to prevent. I don't think it's "pansieish" to keep these kids from dying by making a few rule changes.

usafbamafan

08-28-2005, 11:15 PM

Oh yea, I forgot.......

Consider Yourself

http://www.forumspile.com/Owned/owned-kick.jpg

Neo

08-29-2005, 07:52 AM

Oh yea, I forgot.......

Consider Yourself

http://www.forumspile.com/Owned/owned-kick.jpg

You have got to do better than that to own me chief. :cool:

SilverBritches

08-29-2005, 07:37 PM

I just watched that video again. Here is my take on it:

While I don't think that Rosegreen was trying to hurt Reggie, the hit was very dangerous for both players involved, especially Rosegreen. He was clearly leading with his helmet which is very dangerous for him. I think that hits like that should be illegal. However, Auburn fans showed a lot of class when their student section started chanting Reggie! Reggie! That was a whole different side to Auburn fans that I have never seen before. Oh course I will always remember the hosing incident, but I do respect the Auburn fans for what they did that night. I also commend Rosegreen for calling up Reggie a couple days later to see how he was. That was extremely classy.