Your Thoughts On The Terri Schiavo Case

[Neo]

I think Congress and everyone else trying to use this woman for votes or political gain need to go jump off of a bridge. We're talking about a human being here. Not a spokesman for your agenda. :cool:

[Neo]

I think Congress and everyone else trying to use this woman for votes or political gain need to go jump off of a bridge. We're talking about a human being here. Not a spokesman for your agenda. :cool:


I can only speak for myself...

I would not want to be kept alive artifically. That's just me. That's not life, it's torture. This woman is clinically brain dead. Her soul is being trapped inside a broken body and for what? So the "Pro-Life" people have a spokesman? These groups and the US Congress don't give a rip about this woman. They just need a face and a story to push their "sick" agenda.

I think her husband is respecting her wishes and is doing the right thing. If it were me, my wife/family would pull the plug and let me die in peace. :cool:


Keep in mind according to court appointed doctors, her status hasn't changed in the last 15 years.

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Coma_vegetative_state?open

[JBryant12]

Right on Neo....it might sound mean but they just need to let it go...pull the plug

[Neo]

Right on Neo....it might sound mean but they just need to let it go...pull the plug


I have children so I really feel for the parents, but what I think they're doing is selfish. I could NOT let my child suffer like that. I just couldn't.


There comes a time when you have to just simply let go.

[cocky4ever]

I couldn't let anyone suffer like that. She is dead but they just won't let her die.

[OmahaBound]

I agree, though I wish that in a case like this physician-assisted suicide was an option. She's just going to starve to death now, and that in itself is pretty terrible.

[cocky4ever]

I agree, though I wish that in a case like this physician-assisted suicide was an option. She's just going to starve to death now, and that in itself is pretty terrible.
Yeah, that just makes it even worse.

[JaGuArApRiL]

This is why a living will is very important. I have my wishes in my will that is legally binding. I also told my family i'd haunt them for the rest of their lives if they didnt let me go. It's tragic that people could be so selfish. If you really love someone you have to be willing to let them go. Just my belief...

[Volnooga]

I voted to keep the tube out, but the thought of my wife or child starving to death has me second thinking that now.

[fernandomike]

This is a classic example of an over-reaching government. She has spent fifteen years in a permanent vegetative state with nothing more than reflexes. They assume that her husband is lying about her wishes. The husband should be free to make the decision based on their earlier discussions. Instead, Congress and the President are trying to make it. Shame on them, I say.

[cockyhoskins]

For those that don't have them, here are the SC versions of these forms:

http://www.richlandonline.com/departments/probate/forms/Livingwill.pdf
http://www.richlandonline.com/departments/probate/forms/Healthcare.pdf

I would suggest seeing a lawyer about creating your will.

[dudeman0501]

Schiavo fate back in court after Bush signs law (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7254897/?GT1=6305)

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - The fate of Terri Schiavo once again was in the hands of a judge Monday, following an extraordinary political fight over the brain-damaged woman that consumed both chambers of Congress and prompted the president to rush back to the White House from his Texas ranch.

[Tator]

I can only speak for myself...

I would not want to be kept alive artifically.

I feel the same to a point. If it's taking full life support to keep me breathing, my heart beating and I show no signs of improvement after roughly 4 to 5 months, then yeah, pull it and let me go. However, If all I need to keep going is a feeding tube, leave it and me, alone. Medicine is proven wrong everyday.

I think her husband is respecting her wishes and is doing the right thing.

The husband respecting her wishes? Right and I’m sure he was just following his wife’s wishes that he should find a girlfriend, shack up with her and have some illegitimate children, should she ever fall into her current state, right?

Something doesn't sit right with me in regards to this guys motives. He obviously doesn't love her enough to stick by her side in sickness and in health, as is shown by the afore mentioned afair and subsequent children, but yet we are to wholly believe that he loves her enough to carry out her supposed 'wishes' not to be kept alive? Does anyone else think that's just a bit odd?

[Tator]

If it were me, my wife/family would pull the plug and let me die in peace. :cool:

So you consider slowly starving to death over a matter of 7 to 12 days, a peaceful death? I can understand shutting down some machines and your heart stops in seconds and your body dies in minutes, but taking DAYS to die? Is that really a peaceful way to die? Would you want your family/children watching you die like that?

[OmahaBound]

So you consider slowly starving to death over a matter of 7 to 12 days, a peaceful death? I can understand shutting down some machines and your heart stops in seconds and your body dies in minutes, but taking DAYS to die? Is that really a peaceful way to die? Would you want your family/children watching you die like that?


I agree that it is not a peaceful way to die, that's why I think this is definitely a situation where physician assisted suicide would be ideal. Luckily she's not going to be in pain if and when the feeding tube is actually removed until her death (it will almost certainly be put back in place later today) because she's being pumped full of painkillers just in case she does have feeling. Even with painkillers I'm sure it would be a very difficult way to die, however.

I also agree that I'm not entirely sure the husband is such a nice guy whose simply respecting her wishes. It's not because he moved on, however. The woman is basically dead. It's been 15 years and she can't talk or communicate in any way, shape, or form. I have no problem with him finding a new love and moving on with his life for these reasons. It's not like he could divorce her anyway, because if he did then he would no longer have a say in the matter and her parents would keep her in this state until her eventual death. However, I read something a couple days ago that said she entered this state eight years before he tried to have the feeding tube removed. If she didn't want to be kept alive like this then why did he take eight years? That just seems odd to me. I could definitely understand wanting to wait a few months to be sure, but eight years is a long time.

Obviously we've all been thinking about what we would want done for us in this situation. Basically I've decided that I would definitely want to die, but less so for me and moreso for my family. If I had kids at the time it would certainly nice to be able to see them grow up even if I couldn't communicate with them at all, but it wouldn't be fair to them to have to worry about me and visit me however frequently they would. I would much rather have them just move on with their lives and let me go. Nobody knows what awaits us after death...whether it be heaven, hell, or maybe death really is simply the end....but if it is heaven or some sort of afterlife we could always keep track of our loved ones from beyond without creating that burden for them.

[Neo]

The husband respecting her wishes? Right and I’m sure he was just following his wife’s wishes that he should find a girlfriend, shack up with her and have some illegitimate children, should she ever fall into her current state, right?

So who died and made you God? For 15 years, his wife is in a sense, dead. So to hound him because he needs/wants female companionship is a cheap shot. Why don't you go smell what you're shoveling. :cool:

[BigSpur]

So who died and made you God? For 15 years, his wife is in a sense, dead. So to hound him because he needs/wants female companionship is a cheap shot. Why don't you go smell what you're shoveling. :cool:
Yea the husband has gotten a raw deal in this situation. The only thing he could of done different was to immediatly say that she didn't want to be kept alive on machines, instead he waited a couple years. But I don't know any man that could go 15 years without a little lovin. I think the courts should stay out of it, and both sides should quit using this case to push agendas, no one on capital hill gives a damn about her, but this is a chance to push the pro-life/pro-choice agendas.

[Tator]

So who died and made you God? For 15 years, his wife is in a sense, dead. So to hound him because he needs/wants female companionship is a cheap shot. Why don't you go smell what you're shoveling. :cool:

So who died and made you Nullifier of Ethical Standards?

I don't care how long she has been in the comma, he made a promise to her for life. And I'm sure their voes included this:

"I promise to love and cherish you.......in sickness and in health.......till death do us part"

Till Death do us part. Not comma, not on life support, DEATH.

By his own utterance, nothing else will free him of the promise he made to his wife nor, for that matter, his wife's promise to him.

And he didn't have to go "get some" just because he had a "need/want". And I'll dang sure hound on him for what he is: A liar. You call it a cheap shot, I call it telling it like it is.

Don't call BS on me because I point out the truth of the matter.If you want to afford him some form of respite for what he's done/doing to his marriage, that's your prerogative. However, I will cut no slack nor give any appearance of approval to what he is doing.

[cocky4ever]

Yea the husband has gotten a raw deal in this situation. The only thing he could of done different was to immediatly say that she didn't want to be kept alive on machines, instead he waited a couple years. But I don't know any man that could go 15 years without a little lovin. I think the courts should stay out of it, and both sides should quit using this case to push agendas, no one on capital hill gives a damn about her, but this is a chance to push the pro-life/pro-choice agendas.
You are right about that, it's just a publicity ploy. The politicians have a lot of other things they need to be worrying about instead of trying to decide the fate of one life. The woman is dead. They just need to let her go.

[Tator]

I could give less than a rats asprin about agenda's, political ideals, religious ideals, etc. The woman left no written record of what she wanted and only after several years did the husband come forth with this revelation of her wanting to die. He's moved on with his life, that much is obvious, but instead of utter abandonment, he chooses to pursue a course of action that will starve his wife to death, while her parents watch/work from the legal sidelines. The parents have begged him to just divorce her and leave her in their care, but to no avail. What does this guy want? To legally kill his wife? Is that his motivation? I know it's not out of love.......

Aside from all this, the other issue I have is the method of death. What the blankedy-blank-blank-blank is SO humane about starving this woman to death? No one has given me the answer to this yet. I've had an aggreance, but not an explanation. If everyone (parents, "husband") is of a like mind that she should be allowed to die, can we PLEASE find a swifter, less painful method? As previously mentioned by OmahaBound, maybe assisted suicide?

Those are my issues with this situation.

[allaboutavol]

Am I seriously hearing this? This woman, God bless her, has been kept alive artificially for 15 years, her husband wants to put her out of her misery, and he is doing this out of something other than love? Lets weigh the options, shall we. 15 years of not eating on your own, not walking, not talking, not making any medical advances past VEGITATIVE state. The chances of recovery are slim to none, and should recovery happen the possibility of anything more than blinking in response to questions is void. Sounds like one heck of a quality of life to me. Further more, any parent who could and would sit there for 15 years and watch their lifeless child, just to satisfy themself has real issues. As a mother, it absolutely sickens me to no end that mother could live through and eventually(if not already) proffit from her nothing short of dead child. If you ask me, Terri's parents are the ones who are acting with the lack of love and compassion.

As for medically assisted suicide, never going to happen, ol George wouldn't hear of that. She is going to be forced to suffer until her parents either see how horrible what they are doing to her really is, or someone in the government gets some sense.

It is devistating that to find peace, poor Terri may have to starve for some 7 or more days, but as crazy as it is, it would be better than suffering for another 15 years.

Just my opinion, since you asked.

[fernandomike]

That is one of the most well-reasoned posts that I have ever read on here.

[uscballer101]

Nice post allaboutavol...

[cocky4ever]

Yeah, I agree. Nice post Vol. Plus her husband has been through MANY courts numerous times and they all ruled with him. Its not like this all of a sudden happened overnight. I agree with you that it's the parents who are doing it for themselves and not for Terry. Its a sad situation that never should've come to this but it has. Hopefully it will be over soon.

[Neo]

When this case hit the airwaves, I started my own research on PVS. People that suffer from PVS do not actually feel the pain of starvation because they have no awareness of the pain. Everyone is forgetting that the only part of her brain that works is the part that controls respiration and heart rate. The very basic functions. The movement done by people while suffering from PVS is by reflex. It is not done out of pain.




And he didn't have to go "get some" just because he had a "need/want". And I'll dang sure hound on him for what he is: A liar. You call it a cheap shot, I call it telling it like it is.

Don't call BS on me because I point out the truth of the matter.If you want to afford him some form of respite for what he's done/doing to his marriage, that's your prerogative. However, I will cut no slack nor give any appearance of approval to what he is doing.


Oh and I suppose you have never visited our BOTD or looked at a woman in the mall and thought she was very attractive. That by definition in the bible is cheating. It's called "LUST" dude and since you wanna get biblical, that is against God. :cool:

[allaboutavol]

Oh and I suppose you have never visited our BOTD or looked at a woman in the mall and thought she was very attractive. That by definition in the bible is cheating. It's called "LUST" dude and since you wanna get biblical, that is against God. :cool:


Oh, Oh looks like my friend Neo has made a VERY good point!

[Neo]

Oh, Oh looks like my friend Neo has made a VERY good point!

"Only those without sin, shall cast the first stone." :cool:

[uscballer101]

man fix this thing, I cant give you any more reputation points...Cause you make good points and I cant reward you...

[allaboutavol]

man fix this thing, I cant give you any more reputation points...Cause you make good points and I cant reward you...


Yea, about that Neo, Mr. Administrator, sir, where exactly is this distinguished road I am leading me?

[Volnooga]

If she can't feel the pain of starvation then how can she be suffering while alive? It would then seem to me that the suffering would be that of her family and it now becomes more selfish for them to remove the tube and end her life than to continue their suffering and keep her alive.

Anyone... Anyone...Buller?

[allaboutavol]

It is more that physical suffering Vol, this poor lady had a life, she was full of life, and now she is gone. You have to ask yourself if somehow spirtually, she was looking down on her lifeless body, unable to even use the bathroom alone, how would she feel?

"When we look into the heart of a flower, we see clouds, sunshine, minerals, time, the earth and everything else in the cosmos in it. Without clouds, there could be no rain, and there would be no flower."-Thich Nhat Hanh- Zen master

If her family would truly look into her soul, and not just the surface of her eyes, they would see that all the things they love are there, but gone too, and letting her go is the only way to give Terry her respect back, and understanding that they have nothing to feel guilty about will give them peace as well. Helping her to the Lord is the best gift they can give her.

It is going to hurt, but, without pain, there is never going to be healing. Without rain, no flower.

[OmahaBound]

It is more that physical suffering Vol, this poor lady had a life, she was full of life, and now she is gone. You have to ask yourself if somehow spirtually, she was looking down on her lifeless body, unable to even use the bathroom alone, how would she feel?

Or even worse than that, maybe since her heart is still beating and her body still functioning on a most basic level her spirit is still in her body. Imagine the emotional torture that would be if you were suddenly prevented from moving or communicating for 15 years but you were still cognizant of what's going on around you.

From what I hear, her brain scans show very little functioning however, so hopefully she really is 'gone.'

[RW13]

i believe in the right to die, recently an uncle of my girlfriend chose to end his pain back in December (she's dutch and the guy lived in Holland). It was pretty random and caught their family off guard. I'm all for the right to die and stuff, and I think that should be an option for people in this country but I think the Schiavo case is different b/c she is not deciding for herself. Besides that, the situation is sketchy at best, the are questionable circumstances surrounding the husband and how she got into the hospital in the first place (officially heart attack, but there were marks or something on her neck.) Plus, IMO she can respond to human voice. Last night I was listening to the Rusty Humphrey show (i think that's what it was, I just happened to catch part of it, not a fan) and they had recordings of nurses and Terry's father asking her questions and immediately after they would ask her something she would make a sound, now she may not have understood the question but she certainly was aware of the voices and responded to them, we cannont allow her deranged husband to kill her. I usually don't side with right-wing america and the wacko christian right, but I'm definately standing side by side with them on this one. She didn't get to exercise her right to choose in this case. BTW, did you know as soon as she expires her husband has it set up for her to be cremated? Yeah no autopsy will be conducted....

[Volnooga]

It is more that physical suffering Vol, this poor lady had a life, she was full of life, and now she is gone. You have to ask yourself if somehow spirtually, she was looking down on her lifeless body, unable to even use the bathroom alone, how would she feel?

If her spirit is seperated from her body then she is elsewhere, in a place where there is no pain or a place of eternal pain depending on beliefs. In this scenario life and death of her body is of no importance to her at all.

If her spirit remains with her body it is just as easy to think that maybe her fear or pain is that she may perish without saying goodbye to family and loved once and that death might take her. It may be that she would rather fight than give in. The death of the spirit seems to be able to cause the death of the body. I've seen many a person pass away from the lack of will to live, so her state could just as easily be her spirits determination to live and fight. Who are we to say pull the plug and let her go peacefully if her very essence itself it fighting to return.

If you look me in the eye and say you know it is her wish to die you are a liar. Even if she had a living will, you do not know your feelings on the matter until you are in the situation. A lot of people have wished for death only to change their minds the second after stepping off the ledge. Do I want to live like that? No, does anyone? But I will fight to live in case that future medical advancement can bring me back to a tate where I could enjoy life again. To keep her in the state she is in is to at least give her a chance. To remove the tube is absolute.

Are we playing God to keep her alive? I think so. But decideing her fate one way or the other is to play God and I'd rather err on the side of life.

[RW13]

BTW, do you guys know the "discussion" she and her husband had? They were watching a movie and she saw someone in a situation (coma or something) and she mentioned in passing that she would hate to be in that situation. This is what her husband said. I hope to God my life isn't decided by something I kinda mention on a friday night while I'm watching a movie, I say all kinds of stupid things, like "I'd kill 20 of those bad guys with 1 knife" or something insanely stupid like that, you're watching a movie for God's sake, not writing out a living will! I hope they save her, my thoughts are with her right now as she's suffering without any nutrients...

[Neo]

Last night I was listening to the Rusty Humphrey show (i think that's what it was, I just happened to catch part of it, not a fan) and they had recordings of nurses and Terry's father asking her questions and immediately after they would ask her something she would make a sound


I heard about that, but now after investigating these so-called audiotapes, it is now believed that these tapes are in fact fraudulent and these tapes were created sometime recently. Currently the tapes are being authenicated by independent experts in that field. :cool:

[RW13]

Yeah, that wouldn't suprise me Neo, I mean you'd prob make the tapes too to save your kids life, I know I would. But either way, tapes or not, the circumstances with her and her husband are very fishy and raise alot of questions, too many IMO to dish out death....

[JBryant12]

why isnt lethal injection an option? i dont think its right thats criminals get lethal injection but this woman is going to starve to death if they keep the tube removed....

[RW13]

It's more of a legal and "political" thing JB. By "removing" the feeding tube they are supposedly not killing her, they are just going to let her die on her own. If they put poison into her (lethal injection) then they would be killing her. That is their reasoning, I'm with you JB, it's no different than me, and that poison would be better than starving to death, but you'll learn as you get older the world is full of politics and bullshit, not people's best interests, it is unfortunate...

[allaboutavol]

I can say that I am thankful that I am not the position that any of her family members are in.

[cocky4ever]

she has no voluntary actions. Im all about respecting life and I dont kill anything, not even bugs or anything else. But what about quality of life. She just lays there without any control over anything that goes on in her life. Is it considered compassionate to keep a life in a state like that? I dont know exactly whats going on in her head so I will just base my judgements on medical experts and such. The ones that I have seen speak say that she wouldnt even know she was dying if they remove the feeding tube. The way I look at it is that if you arent alive enough to know you are dying then you are already dead.

[Tator]

Oh and I suppose you have never visited our BOTD or looked at a woman in the mall and thought she was very attractive. That by definition in the bible is cheating. It's called "LUST" dude and since you wanna get biblical, that is against God. :cool:


Yes I have visited the BOTD area (once, I think. Double check me.) and yes, I have thought a woman other than my wife was attractive. Finding someone attractive is not "LUST". Lust is an intense and often excessive or unrestrained sexual desire or simply an intense desire for something. In other words, if I was looking at a woman and I was guilty of lust, my thoughts would run something like this: "Dang she is HOT! I would do anything to get me some of that!" I have been guilty of doing it during the rough times early in my marriage, that much is true. But even in the rough times I always knew that a follow thru on those thoughts was against every standard I have. Since that point in my marriage, I have repented and found that my wife is the only woman I say that about now. To find someone attractive is not a sin, to desire sexual relations with that person at the same time IS a sin.

[Tator]

"Only those without sin, shall cast the first stone." :cool:

Stating that someone is a liar, who in fact lied, is not casting the first stone. It's stating fact.

Do you understand the meaning behind this paraphrased statement of Christ? From the way you used it, I'm not sure you do.

[Neo]

Stating that someone is a liar, who in fact lied, is not casting the first stone. It's stating fact.

Do you understand the meaning behind this paraphrased statement of Christ? From the way you used it, I'm not sure you do.


It means that we as people have no business judging other people because we are not perfect either. Let God do the judging. :cool:

[Neo]

Yes I have visited the BOTD area (once, I think. Double check me.) and yes, I have thought a woman other than my wife was attractive. Finding someone attractive is not "LUST". Lust is an intense and often excessive or unrestrained sexual desire or simply an intense desire for something. In other words, if I was looking at a woman and I was guilty of lust, my thoughts would run something like this: "Dang she is HOT! I would do anything to get me some of that!" I have been guilty of doing it during the rough times early in my marriage, that much is true. But even in the rough times I always knew that a follow thru on those thoughts was against every standard I have. Since that point in my marriage, I have repented and found that my wife is the only woman I say that about now. To find someone attractive is not a sin, to desire sexual relations with that person at the same time IS a sin.


That is your opinion on lust. Just as my opinion is that if you look at a woman as being sexually attractive, it is in fact a sin. The fact that you looked at another woman with a sexual desire in mind makes it a sin according to your definition. So maybe you should ease up on the guy since none of us are God and we have no business judging him for his shortcomings. :cool:

[bleedsgarnet]

this woman is not brain dead..you people dont havea clue what you are talking about...she can follow a balloon..she can respond to a yes or no question by blinking..she can HEAR..she never signed anything saying that she would want to have a feeding tube removed..her husband said that she made the comment while watching a tv program..he sued for malpractice and won 2.5 million dollars. he said he was going to use the money to go to nursing school and take care of her..he got the money and started the process to kill her..she has not had a teeth cleaning in 12 yrs..this guy has a gf with kids..all he has to do is divorce her and give custody to the parents.....i dont see the problem...we have unalienable rights under the constitution to have life. this is not a "right to die" case...she wants to live...i hope his gf doesnt fall and break her neck

[fernandomike]

I could be wrong, but from what I heard her brain activity is limited to the brain stem. This limits her to reflexes and that is it. This is according to experts in the field of neurology. Unless all judges are heathens, it would seem that the family would get some ruling on their side in this case. Their help is coming from politicians, who as we all know are about as biased a group as there is, and make their decisions primarily to curry favor with their constituents.
If the lady has the level of brain functioning that you describe, then I would agree with you. I have not yet heard any expert suggest that she is doing that well. In fact, you spend more of your post talking about her husband than you do her.

[bleedsgarnet]

what more about her needed to be said..go to her website and watch her video..it is for all to see...the other part was to show how disgusting this all is..it looks like he is even putting his gf and kids on hold to watch her die....if i was him and i had a gf and kids with another, and i won 2.5 million...why not leave her? it is sick..that is the point. he is cruel :confused:

[Neo]

what more about her needed to be said..go to her website and watch her video..it is for all to see...the other part was to show how disgusting this all is..it looks like he is even putting his gf and kids on hold to watch her die....if i was him and i had a gf and kids with another, and i won 2.5 million...why not leave her? it is sick..that is the point. he is cruel :confused:


A lot of that 2.5 million is gone. It was paying for her care and his legal expenses covering her case. :cool:

[bleedsgarnet]

legal expenses? for what..if you say it was to keep going to court to try and get the tube removed, why didnt he just divorce her and keep the green..Immediately after the money was awarded he started the process of killing her..she has not had her teeth cleaned in twelve yrs and not has had a female exam in 10...how is that justifified..he wont allow either..to side with this guy is insane..i am gonna stick to football on here from now on..this is rediculous :eek:

[SeattleGamecocks]

Hot topic, wow. I pray that my wife loves me enough to let me die if I were in this situation. And I know she does, thankfully. Assisted suicide would be ideal, but I don't think that was on the agenda of the "mandate" given to W.

[cocky4ever]

Well, I've been doing a little bit of research and figured I would post it on here. Terry Schiavo was a bulimic who suffered a heart attack after her condition was wrongly diagnosed from doctors. She suffered brain damage because of lack of potassium(one of the most important minerals in brain/nervous system function). Her husband sued the doctors for malpractice and got a settlement. Half of that settlement went into a trust fund that he couldnt touch and was used to care for her and help with her rehabilitation. She has been all over the country to different experts,had operations,and even had a device implanted in her brain to try and help her situation. For 8 years her husband tried to rehabilitate her and get her back. Imagine living that way for 8 years. Im sure her husband went through a LOT of stress and finally decided that there wasnt a real chance for any recovery. So he went to a court to have the feeding tube removed because her parents wouldnt let him do it without a fight. He won the court case after all the evidence was presented. The feeding tube was removed. The parents appealed it and it was reinserted. This is the part that a lot of people probably have the problem with but heres how I see it. He had been dealing with this for 8 years and was ready to put it behind him and move on with his life. He had done what would be considered all neccesary means to improve her quality of life and when he couldnt he tried to have it ended by going through all the processes in this country. Now after 15 years she still hasnt improved and she should have already been welcomed into eternity's sweet embrace. It has been through 10 different courts and seen 19 different judges. They all sided with the husband and have just been constantly appealed and tried to be retried on different ammendments. I dont think anyone should judge anyone in this case and to make the husband out to be a monster is crazy when you dont know the situation. What do you want him to do. Keep her alive until shes 80 so her body shuts down by it'self. Would that make people feel better. Should we just cryogenically freeze her until we find out how to fix her condition? Its just sad that is has become a media and govt. ploy for ratings and approval when its something as serious as the quality of a human life.

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

[allaboutavol]

Well, I've been doing a little bit of research and figured I would post it on here. Terry Schiavo was a bulimic who suffered a heart attack after her condition was wrongly diagnosed from doctors. She suffered brain damage because of lack of potassium(one of the most important minerals in brain/nervous system function). Her husband sued the doctors for malpractice and got a settlement. Half of that settlement went into a trust fund that he couldnt touch and was used to care for her and help with her rehabilitation. She has been all over the country to different experts,had operations,and even had a device implanted in her brain to try and help her situation. For 8 years her husband tried to rehabilitate her and get her back. Imagine living that way for 8 years. Im sure her husband went through a LOT of stress and finally decided that there wasnt a real chance for any recovery. So he went to a court to have the feeding tube removed because her parents wouldnt let him do it without a fight. He won the court case after all the evidence was presented. The feeding tube was removed. The parents appealed it and it was reinserted. This is the part that a lot of people probably have the problem with but heres how I see it. He had been dealing with this for 8 years and was ready to put it behind him and move on with his life. He had done what would be considered all neccesary means to improve her quality of life and when he couldnt he tried to have it ended by going through all the processes in this country. Now after 15 years she still hasnt improved and she should have already been welcomed into eternity's sweet embrace. It has been through 10 different courts and seen 19 different judges. They all sided with the husband and have just been constantly appealed and tried to be retried on different ammendments. I dont think anyone should judge anyone in this case and to make the husband out to be a monster is crazy when you dont know the situation. What do you want him to do. Keep her alive until shes 80 so her body shuts down by it'self. Would that make people feel better. Should we just cryogenically freeze her until we find out how to fix her condition? Its just sad that is has become a media and govt. ploy for ratings and approval when its something as serious as the quality of a human life.

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html



Preach it Brother!!!

[cocky4ever]

Well, now an organization has tried to get a court to give them protective custody of Terry Schiavo. The judge denied the motion. Now Jeb Bush is trying to pass an emergency bill to get the feeding tube re-inserted until they can get to the Supreme Court and try to get them to overturn the decision so that Terry Schiavo can remain on a feeding tube. 24 straight courts have sided with the husband. Now the parents are coming up with all kinds of crazy accusations that they for some reason didnt mention until now. How much is it gonna take before they just let her go. It has gotten to the point that Im worried about the husbands safety because of the way some of these people are acting about the situation. Is it just me or does this seem to be some kind of distraction. This news wouldnt be on this large of a scale if the govt. wasnt so involved. George Bush even left vacation early to pass the bill. He didnt even leave vacation early when a tsunami struck asia killing hundreds of thousands. He stayed at his vacation home for 3 days after that disaster. What the hell is up with that? Now all of a sudden he acts like he is so hardcore about perserving life. A bill he passed while in TX was used earlier this year to remove a 6 month infant from life support because the family couldnt pay for it. All of this is just a ploy to rally support. This whole system makes me want to puke violently.

[fernandomike]

I think Cocky hit that one right out of the park.

[allaboutavol]

You know what I think, I think that one, cocky is my new Zen Master, and two, I think that if they want to pass bills and laws and all that raz-m-taz BS when it comes to this poor woman's life, they need to pass one stating that her parents can not proffit from lets say lifetime movie of the week deals and Opera book club deals. Because as sick as it is, y'all know as well as I do that as soon as this ordeal is over they are going to be sittin loaded with cash from just such deals made for TV flicks explaining their horrable son-in-law, and how he murdered their child or whatever the case may be.

[Neo]

Well the US Supreme Court has refused the appeal and has upheld the lower courts ruling. Now good ol' Jeb Bush is trying to circumvent the judical process by making the rules as he goes along.

[Neo]

TV flicks explaining their horrable son-in-law, and how he murdered their child or whatever the case may be.


If I were the husband, I would slap them with a liable suit so fast, their head would spin. :cool:


To show how much this case means to me, I would volunteer my services to the husband if he would pay for all the expenses. :cool:

[Tator]

It means that we as people have no business judging other people because we are not perfect either. Let God do the judging. :cool:

Absolutely. However, I don't see where I have judged Terri's husband by calling him a liar or adulterer. God, not me, has already spoken out about these actions and HE says they are wrong and HE will meet out the punishment for those who commit these actions and are unrepentant. Terri's husband's actions have determined his own guilt based upon God's word, not MY word. He lied to his wife and per God's word, that makes him a liar. So, I am only echoing God's word.

[Tator]

OK, I have a question.

Why is it, that the Judicial branch can overrule the Executive and Legislative branches and no one bats and eye, but when the reverse is tried everyone cries foul?

I thought that each branch of govt. balances the other? Am I wrong?

[Tator]

Now good ol' Jeb Bush is trying to circumvent the judical process by making the rules as he goes along.

Sounds exactly like what the courts do all the time......

The judicial system has grown too powerful due to the "untouchable" nature of their appointments. Once the supreme court decrees something, congress, the president, the PEOPLE have no power to change it. Only the court itself can change it. Imagine if congress or the president had the same qualities in their positions...... :eek:

[Tator]

Quality of life. This seems to be the driving force of the pro death side.

I've heard the pro death "what if's" and I ask you to consider two pro life "what if's".

What if Terri's soul wants to continue to try to recover and continue her life, regardless of the outlook and time span?

What if Terri has some level of awareness/consciousness and CAN feel pain?

Awareness?

Someone stated that Terri's condition doesn't allow her to experience pain and she is not aware of the physical world. If the method of death wouldn't result in pain and cruelty, why would allowing her to live? She's not aware, per the diagnosis. Where's the harm? The family would have to deal with their suffering, for certain, but that's it. In response to the soul issue, see "what if's".

Doubts
I have stated earlier my doubts of the husband's motives for pushing for Terri's death. Money may not be it, but I do think there are ulterior motives that are not consistent with a caring husband. He was dating shortly after the incedent, he now has a common law wife and has had children with the same. It seems he's not ready to COMPLETELY move on with his life until AFTER Terri is dead. No one has given me a good reason why he has not just taken the divorce and let the parents continue on with supporting Terri. It's not because of love OR compassion OR because of Terri's "wishes".

For the future
So were does this lead folks? What door does this leave open for other, less extreme cases? What could come about because of the precedents set by this case? I shudder to think what could be gleened from this case by future lawyers and judges.....


And finally, I wonder what cause of death will be listed on the death certificate?

I want to thank all who provided substence to this discussion. I consider this at an end because Terri will die sometime soon and further discussion is basically irrelevant.

[cocky4ever]

Quality of life. This seems to be the driving force of the pro death side.

I've heard the pro death "what if's" and I ask you to consider two pro life "what if's".

What if Terri's soul wants to continue to try to recover and continue her life, regardless of the outlook and time span?

What if Terri has some level of awareness/consciousness and CAN feel pain?

Awareness?

Someone stated that Terri's condition doesn't allow her to experience pain and she is not aware of the physical world. If the method of death wouldn't result in pain and cruelty, why would allowing her to live? She's not aware, per the diagnosis. Where's the harm? The family would have to deal with their suffering, for certain, but that's it. In response to the soul issue, see "what if's".

Doubts
I have stated earlier my doubts of the husband's motives for pushing for Terri's death. Money may not be it, but I do think there are ulterior motives that are not consistent with a caring husband. He was dating shortly after the incedent, he now has a common law wife and has had children with the same. It seems he's not ready to COMPLETELY move on with his life until AFTER Terri is dead. No one has given me a good reason why he has not just taken the divorce and let the parents continue on with supporting Terri. It's not because of love OR compassion OR because of Terri's "wishes".

For the future
So were does this lead folks? What door does this leave open for other, less extreme cases? What could come about because of the precedents set by this case? I shudder to think what could be gleened from this case by future lawyers and judges.....


And finally, I wonder what cause of death will be listed on the death certificate?

I want to thank all who provided substence to this discussion. I consider this at an end because Terri will die sometime soon and further discussion is basically irrelevant.
As far as awareness I dont know how much you know about the body but while studying for my massage license I went through 2 college courses of AP 1 and 2 and we spent about 25 class hours just on the nervous system just because of how much it controls and how complex it is. Basically the only part of her brain that works is the primary motor area. This area controls only the very most basic life functions like heartbeat,breathing, and blinking eyes. Every other part of her brain is basically null and void. Other areas of the brain arent functioning and even if they were the roads on which the signals travel wouldnt carry them. So its bascically like this. If your mind is a HUGE mansion that goes on almost as far as you could see Terry would be trapped in a tiny dark closet about 2ft. by 2 ft. She cant feel,see,hear,smell, think,or anything else that even comes close to being enjoyable. How do we know? Because her brain doesnt work. As far as the husband Im not getting into that again. Like you said this will all be over soon and I hope that Terry can find the peace that should have been granted to her 8 years ago.

[MyssiD]

This woman is clinically brain dead.
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Coma_vegetative_state?open

Terry Schiavo is not clinically brain dead, she is in a persistent vegetative state...there's a big difference. If she were clinically brain dead, she would be unconscious and not breathing on her own...she would be on a ventilator.

Furthermore, I just wish peace to everyone involved in this ordeal. I don't think it is fair to pass judgement on anyone. No one knows what these people and the husband have been going through for the past 15 years. It is a very complex situation where there is no good outcome.

[GamecocksRule]

Sounds exactly like what the courts do all the time......

The judicial system has grown too powerful due to the "untouchable" nature of their appointments. Once the supreme court decrees something, congress, the president, the PEOPLE have no power to change it. Only the court itself can change it. Imagine if congress or the president had the same qualities in their positions...... :eek:

On the contrary, Congress (legislative branch) and the President (executive branch) do have the same "qualities" as you mention that the judicial branch has...hence the "separation of powers", that was created in our Constitution. The Judicial branch is responsible for 'interpreting' the law (legislation) that has been passed by Congress. I just don't see how anyone can totally blame the judicial system, in this case or any case for that matter. Their job is to hear the case, evidence, etc. and interpret the state (or federal) LAW that is written and apply it to the case. The LAW that they interpret from has been written by Congress (legislative) and signed off by the President/Governor (executive).

[Neo]

On the contrary, Congress (legislative branch) and the President (executive branch) do have the same "qualities" as you mention that the judicial branch has...hence the "separation of powers", that was created in our Constitution. The Judicial branch is responsible for 'interpreting' the law (legislation) that has been passed by Congress. I just don't see how anyone can totally blame the judicial system, in this case or any case for that matter. Their job is to hear the case, evidence, etc. and interpret the state (or federal) LAW that is written and apply it to the case. The LAW that they interpret from has been written by Congress (legislative) and signed off by the President/Governor (executive).


Someone just got "pimp" slapped! :D

[Neo]

Police 'showdown' over Schiavo averted

By CAROL MARBIN MILLER

Miami Herald


PINELLAS PARK, Fla. — Hours after a judge ordered that Terri Schiavo was not to be removed from her hospice, a team of state agents were en route to seize her and have her feeding tube reinserted - but they stopped short when local police told them they would enforce the judge's order, The Miami Herald has learned.

Agents of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement told police in Pinellas Park, the small town where Schiavo lies at Hospice Woodside, on Thursday that they were on the way to take her to a hospital to resume her feeding.

For a brief period, local police, who have officers at the hospice to keep protesters out, prepared for what sources called "a showdown."

In the end, the squad from the FDLE and the Department of Children & Families backed down, apparently concerned about confronting local police outside the hospice.

"We told them that unless they had the judge with them when they came, they were not going to get in," said a source with the local police.

"The FDLE called to say they were en route to the scene," said an official with the city police who requested anonymity. "When the sheriff's department and our department told them they could not enforce their order, they backed off."

The incident,known only to a few and related to The Herald by three different sources involved in Thursday's events, underscores the intense emotion and murky legal terrain that the Schiavo case has created. It also shows that agencies answering directly to Gov. Jeb Bush had planned to use a wrinkle in Florida law that would have allowed them to legally get around the judge's order. The exception in the law allows public agencies to freeze a judge's order whenever an agency appeals it.

CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS

Participants in the high-stakes test of wills, who spoke with The Herald on the condition of anonymity, said they believed the standoff could ultimately have led to a constitutional crisis and a confrontation between dueling lawmen.

"There were two sets of law enforcement officers facing off, waiting for the other to blink," said one official with knowledge of Thursday morning's activities.

In jest, one official said local police discussed "whether we had enough officers to hold off the National Guard."

"It was kind of a showdown on the part of the locals and the state police," the official said. "It it was not too long after that Jeb Bush was on TV saying that, evidently, he doesn't have as much authority as people think."

State officials on Friday vigorously denied the notion that any "showdown" occurred.

"DCF directed no such action," said agency spokeswoman Zoraya Suarez.

Said Bush spokesman Jacob DiPietre: "There was no showdown. We were ready to go. We didn't want to break the law. There was a process in place and we were following the process. The judge had an order and we were following the order."

Tim Caddell, a spokesman for the city of Pinellas Park, declined to discuss Thursday's events.

SHELTER FOR SCHIAVO

The developments that set Thursday morning's events in motion began the previous afternoon, when the governor and DCF chief Lucy Hadi held an impromptu news conference to announce they were considering sheltering Schiavo under the state's adult protection law. DCF has been besieged, officials say, by thousands of calls alleging Schiavo is the victim of abuse or neglect.

Alerted by the Bush administration that Schiavo might be on her way to their facility, officials at Morton Plant Hospital went to court themselves Wednesday, asking Circuit Judge George Greer, who ordered the removal of Schiavo's feeding tube last week, what to do.

"It's an extraordinary situation," said Beth Hardy, a hospital spokeswoman. "I don't think any of us has seen anything like it. Ever."

Greer signed an order Wednesday afternoon forbidding DCF from "taking possession of Theresa Marie Schiavo or removing her" from the hospice. He directed "each and every and singular sheriff of the state of Florida" to enforce his order.

But Thursday, at 8:15 a.m., DCF lawyers appealed Greer's order to judges at the Second District Court of Appeal in Lakeland.

That created the window of time to seize Schiavo. When DCF filed its appeal, it effectively froze the judge's Wednesday order. It took nearly three hours before the judge found out and canceled the automatic stay, shortly before 11 a.m.

Administrators of the 72-bed hospice, who have endured a withering siege of their facility by protesters since Greer ordered Schiavo's feeding tube removed on March 18, declined to discuss Thursday morning's events in any detail.

"I don't really know, or pretend to know, the specifics of what is going on behind the scenes," said Mike Bell, a spokesman for Hospice of the Florida Suncoast, which operates Woodside.

DCF INTENTIONS

According to sources, DCF intended to take Schiavo to Morton Plant Hospital, where her feeding tube had been reinserted in 2003 following a previous judicial order allowing its removal. But hospice officials were aware that the hospital was not likely to perform surgery to reinsert the tube without an order from Greer.

"People knew that taking [Schiavo] did not equate with immediate reinsertion of the feeding tube," a source said. "Hospital officials were working with their legal counsel and their advisors, trying to figure out which order superseded which, and what action they should take."

Hardy, the hospital spokeswoman, said she does not believe the hospital was made aware Thursday morning that DCF and state police planned to bring Schiavo in. "We were not aware of that three-hour period," she said. "It's not a discussion we even had, really."

George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, said he does not think DCF officials knew of the window of opportunity they had created until well after they filed their appeal.

"Frankly, I don't believe when they filed their notice of appeal they realized that that gave them an automatic stay," Felos said. "When we filed our motion to vacate the automatic stay . . . they realized they had a short window of opportunity and they wanted to extend that as long as they could.

"I believe that as soon as DCF knew they had an opportunity, they were mobilizing to take advantage of it, without a doubt."

Miami Herald staff writers Phil Long and Marc Caputo contributed to this story.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/11229201.htm

[cocky4ever]

Someone just got "pimp" slapped! :D
LOL :D Well, she does work with legal matters all day so if you're gonna talk about the US legal system with her you better know what you're talking about.

[Neo]

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. — Hours after a judge ordered that Terri Schiavo was not to be removed from her hospice, a team of state agents were en route to seize her and have her feeding tube reinserted - but they stopped short when local police told them they would enforce the judge's order, The Miami Herald has learned.



Well, this is classic Jeb Bush meddling and total trashing of our constitution. Since the courts didn't share his views, he sends armed state law enforcement agents to violate a court order and to do his bidding?

I applaud those Sheriff's deputies that stood their ground and didn't let themselves be intimidated by Bush's cronies! They're the ones that were upholding the law. :cool:

[cocky4ever]

I am glad the officers kept out the other group that wanted to "hijack" Terry Schiavo and re-insert her feeding tube. This case has been up and down the court systems several times and to have the same ruling made time after time only to have one renegade dept. be able to come and enforce their own will on the matter would be a mockery of our legal system. I have my own views on whether or not she should remain alive in that state but if the courts had ruled time after time to leaver her in that state then I would leave it at that and just let things work themselves out. Im glad that the courts are standing firm because other wise they will become flooded with cases and cases of people who keep clogging up the courts until they get the ruling they want. Thats not how the courts work and I certainly hope we dont see a shift in that direction after all of this.

[cocky4ever]

I forgot to post this information last night but a NC mand was arrested yesterday for offering large amounts of money to anyone who would kill Terry Schiavo's husband and/or the judge who ruled to have the feeding tube removed. I spoke in an earlier case that it had gotten to the point that I was scared for her husbands safety and now it seems that those worries are proving to be accurate.

http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050326/APN/503260530&cachetime=5

[1000x]

I have a completely different view on the matter. If I were Terry Schiavo, I would want to live. I might be living in a vegetative state and my life might be painful, but life is full of pain. For all the people I leave behind and everyone following this case, I don't want to leave behind the legacy of a quitter and that's not what I want people to learn. My life will have to be taken from me. I will not quit life because I'm in a vegetative state or it's too painful.

However, I'm not her, and that changes things dramatically. If the feeding tube were removed, she would no longer consume hospital resources, maybe giving other patients a better shot at becoming well or saving another life. Eventually, it would cost us all less, as this case in many ways is being funded by our tax dollars. I'm all for what helps the most people. More people overall would be helped by removing the tube, and even though I would not want that happening to me, it's the right decision to make.

[cocky4ever]

I have a completely different view on the matter. If I were Terry Schiavo, I would want to live. I might be living in a vegetative state and my life might be painful, but life is full of pain. For all the people I leave behind and everyone following this case, I don't want to leave behind the legacy of a quitter and that's not what I want people to learn. My life will have to be taken from me. I will not quit life because I'm in a vegetative state or it's too painful.

However, I'm not her, and that changes things dramatically. If the feeding tube were removed, she would no longer consume hospital resources, maybe giving other patients a better shot at becoming well or saving another life. Eventually, it would cost us all less, as this case in many ways is being funded by our tax dollars. I'm all for what helps the most people. More people overall would be helped by removing the tube, and even though I would not want that happening to me, it's the right decision to make.
I can respect your desire to not quit and to hang onto life even if you were ever unfortuante enough to end up in that situation. Hopefully this will make people more aware of things like this and lead to more living wills being written. That way there would be less questions about these types of matters and would make things easier for everyone involved.

[Neo]

The same punk Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Texas) that's screaming for Schiavo's case has now been busted! He was in the same situation....

DeLay's Own Tragic Crossroads
Family of the lawmaker involved in the Schiavo case decided in '88 to let his comatose father die.

By Walter F. Roche Jr. and Sam Howe Verhovek, Times Staff Writers


CANYON LAKE, Texas — A family tragedy that unfolded in a Texas hospital during the fall of 1988 was a private ordeal — without judges, emergency sessions of Congress or the debate raging outside Terri Schiavo's Florida hospice. The patient then was a 65-year-old drilling contractor, badly injured in a freak accident at his home. Among the family members keeping vigil at Brooke Army Medical Center was a grieving junior congressman — Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Texas).

More than 16 years ago, far from the political passions that have defined the Schiavo controversy, the DeLay family endured its own wrenching end-of-life crisis. The man in a coma, kept alive by intravenous lines and oxygen equipment, was DeLay's father, Charles Ray DeLay.

Then, freshly reelected to a third term in the House, the 41-year-old DeLay waited, all but helpless, for the verdict of doctors.

Today, as House Majority Leader, DeLay has teamed with his Senate counterpart, Bill Frist (R-Tenn.), to champion political intervention in the Schiavo case. They pushed emergency legislation through Congress to shift the legal case from Florida state courts to the federal judiciary.

And DeLay is among the strongest advocates of keeping the woman, who doctors say has been in a persistent vegetative state for 15 years, connected to her feeding tube. DeLay has denounced Schiavo's husband, as well as judges, for committing what he calls "an act of barbarism" in removing the tube. In 1988, however, there was no such fiery rhetoric as the congressman quietly joined the sad family consensus to let his father die.

"There was no point to even really talking about it," Maxine DeLay, the congressman's 81-year-old widowed mother, recalled in an interview last week. "There was no way [Charles] wanted to live like that. Tom knew — we all knew — his father wouldn't have wanted to live that way."

Doctors advised that he would "basically be a vegetable," said the congressman's aunt, JoAnne DeLay.

When his father's kidneys failed, the DeLay family decided against connecting him to a dialysis machine. "Extraordinary measures to prolong life were not initiated," said his medical report, citing "agreement with the family's wishes." His bedside chart carried the instruction: "Do not resuscitate." On Dec. 14, 1988, the DeLay patriarch "expired with his family in attendance."

"The situation faced by the congressman's family was entirely different than Terri Schiavo's," said a spokesman for the majority leader, who declined requests for an interview.

"The only thing keeping her alive is the food and water we all need to survive. His father was on a ventilator and other machines to sustain him," said Dan Allen, DeLay's press aide.

There were also these similarities: Both stricken patients were severely brain-damaged. Both were incapable of surviving without medical assistance. Both were said to have expressed a desire to be spared from being kept alive by artificial means. And neither of them had a living will.

This previously unpublished account of the majority leader's personal brush with life-ending decisions was assembled from court files, medical records and interviews with family members.

It was a pleasant late afternoon in the Hill Country of Texas on Nov. 17, 1988.

At Charles and Maxine DeLay's home, set on a limestone bluff of cedars and live oaks, it also was a moment of triumph. Charles and his brother, Jerry DeLay, two avid tinkerers, had just finished work on a new backyard tram — an elevator-like device that would carry family and friends down a 200-foot slope to the blue-green waters of Canyon Lake.

The two men called for their wives to hop aboard. Charles pushed the button and the maiden run began. Within seconds, a horrific screeching noise echoed across the still lake — "a sickening sound," said a neighbor. The tram was in trouble.

Maxine, seated up front in the four-passenger trolley, said her husband repeatedly tried to engage the emergency brake, but the rail car kept picking up speed. Halfway down the bank, it was free-wheeling, according to accident investigators.

Moments later, it jumped the track and slammed into a tree, scattering passengers and debris in all directions.

"It was awful, just awful," recalled Karl Braddick, now 86, the DeLays' neighbor at the time. "I came running over, and it was a terrible sight."

CONTINUED......

[Neo]

CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST....


He called for emergency help. Rescue workers had trouble bringing the injured victims up the steep terrain. Jerry's wife, JoAnne, suffered broken bones and a shattered elbow. Charles, who had been thrown head-first into a tree, was in grave condition.

"He was all but gone," said Braddick, gesturing at the spot of the accident as he offered a visitor a ride down to the lake in his own tram. "He would have been better off if he'd died right there and then."

But Charles DeLay hung on. In the ambulance on his way to a hospital in New Braunfels 15 miles away, he tried to speak.

"He wasn't making any sense; it was mainly just cuss words," recalled Maxine with a faint, fond smile. Four hours later, he was airlifted by helicopter to the Brooke Army Medical Center at Ft. Sam Houston. Admission records show he arrived with multiple injuries, including broken ribs and a brain hemorrhage. Tom DeLay flew to his father's bedside, where, along with his two brothers and a sister, they joined their mother. In the weeks that followed, the congressman made repeated trips back from Washington, his family said. Maxine seldom left her husband's side.

"Mama stayed at the hospital with him all the time. Oh, it was terrible for everyone," said Alvina "Vi" Skogen, a former sister-in-law of the congressman. Neighbor Braddick visited the hospital and said it seemed very clear to everyone that there was little prospect of recovery. "He had no consciousness that I could see," Braddick said. "He did a bit of moaning and groaning, I guess, but you could see there was no way he was coming back." Maxine DeLay agreed that she was never aware of any consciousness on her husband's part during the long days of her bedside vigil — with one possible exception.

"Whenever Randy walked into the room, his heart, his pulse rate, would go up a little bit," she said of their son, Randall, the congressman's younger brother, who lives near Houston. Doctors conducted a series of tests, including scans of his head, face, neck and abdomen. They checked for lung damage and performed a tracheostomy to assist his breathing. But they could not prevent steady deterioration. Then, infections complicated the senior DeLay's fight for life. Finally, his organs began to fail. His family and physicians confronted the dreaded choice so many other Americans have faced: to make heroic efforts or to let the end come.

"Daddy did not want to be a vegetable," said Skogen, one of his daughters-in-law at the time. "There was no decision for the family to make. He made it for them."

The preliminary decision to withhold dialysis and other treatments fell to Maxine along with Randall and her daughter Tena — and "Tom went along." He raised no objection, said the congressman's mother.

Family members said they prayed.

Jerry DeLay "felt terribly about the accident" that injured his brother, said his wife, JoAnne. "He prayed that, if [Charles] couldn't have quality of life, that God would take him — and that is exactly what he did."

Charles Ray DeLay died at 3:17 a.m., according to his death certificate, 27 days after plummeting down the hillside.


The family then turned to lawyers.

In 1990, the DeLays filed suit against Midcap Bearing Corp. of San Antonio and Lovejoy Inc. of Illinois, the distributor and maker of a coupling that the family said had failed and caused the tram to hurtle out of control.

The family's wrongful death lawsuit accused the companies of negligence and sought actual and punitive damages. Lawyers for the companies denied the allegations and countersued the surviving designer of the tram system, Jerry DeLay.

The case thrust Rep. DeLay into unfamiliar territory — the front page of a civil complaint as a plaintiff. He is an outspoken defender of business against what he calls the crippling effects of "predatory, self-serving litigation."

The DeLay family litigation sought unspecified compensation for, among other things, the dead father's "physical pain and suffering, mental anguish and trauma," and the mother's grief, sorrow and loss of companionship.

Their lawsuit also alleged violations of the Texas product liability law.

The DeLay case moved slowly through the Texas judicial system, accumulating more than 500 pages of motions, affidavits and disclosures over nearly three years. Among the affidavits was one filed by the congressman, but family members said he had little direct involvement in the lawsuit, leaving that to his brother Randall, an attorney.

Rep. DeLay, who since has taken a leading role promoting tort reform, wants to rein in trial lawyers to protect American businesses from what he calls "frivolous, parasitic lawsuits" that raise insurance premiums and "kill jobs."

Last September, he expressed less than warm sentiment for attorneys when he took the floor of the House to condemn trial lawyers who, he said, "get fat off the pain" of plaintiffs and off "the hard work" of defendants.

Aides for DeLay defended his role as a plaintiff in the family lawsuit, saying he did not follow the legal case and was not aware of its final outcome.

The case was resolved in 1993 with payment of an undisclosed sum, said to be about $250,000, according to sources familiar with the out-of-court settlement. DeLay signed over his share of any proceeds to his mother, said his aides.

Three years later, DeLay cosponsored a bill specifically designed to override state laws on product liability such as the one cited in his family's lawsuit. The legislation provided sweeping exemptions for product sellers.

The 1996 bill was vetoed by President Clinton, who said he objected to the DeLay-backed measure because it "tilts against American families and would deprive them of the ability to recover fully when they are injured by a defective product."

After her husband's death, Maxine DeLay scrapped the mangled tram at the bottom of the hill and sold the family's lake house.

Today, she lives alone in a Houston senior citizen residence. Like much of the country, she is following news developments in the Schiavo case and her son's prominent role.

She acknowledged questions comparing her family's decision in 1988 to the Schiavo conflict with a slight smile. "It's certainly interesting, isn't it?"

She had a new hairdo for Easter and puffed on a cigarette outside her assisted-living residence as she sat back comparing the cases.

Like her son, she believed there might be hope for Terri Schiavo's recovery. That's what made her family's experience different, she said. Charles had no hope.

"There was no chance he was ever coming back," she said.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-delay27mar27,0,5710023.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[cocky4ever]

Good post.

[allaboutavol]

I forgot to post this information last night but a NC mand was arrested yesterday for offering large amounts of money to anyone who would kill Terry Schiavo's husband and/or the judge who ruled to have the feeding tube removed. I spoke in an earlier case that it had gotten to the point that I was scared for her husbands safety and now it seems that those worries are proving to be accurate.

http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050326/APN/503260530&cachetime=5


Hows this nim-rod for irony at its peek? Wants to prove how horrible it is to make this poor woman suffer (like she hasn't been for the past 15 years)sooooo, he wants to hunt down in cold blood the man who has taken care of her because he wants to give her peace. That makes sense.

[uscballer101]

Saw this on yahoo...thought you guys would want to see it...http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050328/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman

[cocky4ever]

Hows this nim-rod for irony at its peek? Wants to prove how horrible it is to make this poor woman suffer (like she hasn't been for the past 15 years)sooooo, he wants to hunt down in cold blood the man who has taken care of her because he wants to give her peace. That makes sense.
Exactly. I guess he uses the same kind of rationale of people who bomb abortion clinics.

[cocky4ever]

Saw this on yahoo...thought you guys would want to see it...http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050328/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman
The number of people who have been arrested for trying to run in and give her bread and water just proves how simple-minded they are. If she could eat bread and drink water she wouldnt be in this situation in the first place. Thats why shes on a feeding tube. Plus I think they are totally inconsiderate considering there are others in there dying and they have a circus outside their room and their family members have to go through all of that just to see them. Oh yeah, another little piece of irony to go with AllaboutaVols post. These people are planning on protesting in Washington DC because the govt. starved her when the thing that got her in this condition in the first place is her starving herself. She was bulimic and thats what led to all of this. Hows that for irony.

[allaboutavol]

The number of people who have been arrested for trying to run in and give her bread and water just proves how simple-minded they are. If she could eat bread and drink water she wouldnt be in this situation in the first place. Thats why shes on a feeding tube. Plus I think they are totally inconsiderate considering there are others in there dying and they have a circus outside their room and their family members have to go through all of that just to see them. Oh yeah, another little piece of irony to go with AllaboutaVols post. These people are planning on protesting in Washington DC because the govt. starved her when the thing that got her in this condition in the first place is her starving herself. She was bulimic and thats what led to all of this. Hows that for irony.


Right! Did you happen to take a gander at any of the posts on the little chat bord attached to the yahoo story? These people are freaks about this woman. I mean, I was all into the Scott Peterson story, but he cut his wife up, (sick-o) these people are sending their children in to see this woman dying, then getting pissed off when they get in trouble for it. Why in Gods name would you want your child to see that? What in the hell is wrong with people? Plain and simple. Terri S had a eating disorder, she ruined her body, her body shut down, and as truly tragic as it is, there was nothing that anyone could do to fix it. She was so desperatly trying to be accecpted physically she felt she had to deny her body, and like cocky said, the real sad, sad irony is that she really in all actuality did this to herself, and please hear me when I say I mean no disrespect what-so-ever when saying that, but it is the truth. The only good that could come from this is when my 12 year old neice was here baby sitting for me Saturday night, I told her "See, thats why it's so important that you eat right, and take care of your body, you would never want to put all of us through what her family is going through would you?" Lessons learned.

[cocky4ever]

Right! Did you happen to take a gander at any of the posts on the little chat bord attached to the yahoo story? These people are freaks about this woman. I mean, I was all into the Scott Peterson story, but he cut his wife up, (sick-o) these people are sending their children in to see this woman dying, then getting pissed off when they get in trouble for it. Why in Gods name would you want your child to see that? What in the hell is wrong with people? Plain and simple. Terri S had a eating disorder, she ruined her body, her body shut down, and as truly tragic as it is, there was nothing that anyone could do to fix it. She was so desperatly trying to be accecpted physically she felt she had to deny her body, and like cocky said, the real sad, sad irony is that she really in all actuality did this to herself, and please hear me when I say I mean no disrespect what-so-ever when saying that, but it is the truth. The only good that could come from this is when my 12 year old neice was here baby sitting for me Saturday night, I told her "See, thats why it's so important that you eat right, and take care of your body, you would never want to put all of us through what her family is going through would you?" Lessons learned.
Yeah, it is sad but true. And yes, I do see how crazy some of those people seem to be. At least you were able to get something positive out of it.

[Neo]

SORRY .. BUT THERE'S MORE TO SAY ON THE TERRI SCHIAVO MATTER.

by: Neal Boortz
Syndicated Radio Personality/Civil Rights Attorney/Registered Libertarian

I can't tell you how much I wish this story would just go away ... and that it had never come along in the first place. Believe me, this is territory I would just as soon leave alone on my talk show. Why? Because it involves religion, that's why.

Many people who profess strong Christian beliefs seem to feel that any negative statement about any action undertaken by anyone in the name of Christianity constitutes "Christian bashing." It doesn't matter what the Christian activist does or what they say, you simply are not permitted to criticize their actions in any way. To do so is to provide conclusive proof that you are anti-Christian at best, and a Godless atheist at worse.

Let's just take a look at the actions of some of the people protesting outside of Terri Schiavo's hospice.

At the end of the street is Triple O Auto. It's an auto repair shop operated by a single father trying to raise two sons. The triple O stands for "On Our Own." Protestors have been parking in the Triple O driveway. When Scotty Jackson, the owner, asked one of the protestors to move his car the man waved his Bible at Scotty, shouted some obscenities and walked off. Criticize this protestor and you're Christian bashing.

Protestors have been demanding that Florida Governor Jeb Bush ignore the rulings of the various courts in this matter and seize Terri Schiavo from the hospice. If you point out that we are a government of law and that it is wrong for someone to ask a government official to ignore the law, you're Christian bashing.

Over the weekend Governor Bush did dispatch a team of State agents in vans to travel to Pinellas Park and take Terri Schiavo into custody. The Pinellas Park police told them that they had better bring a Judge with them or they were going to go away empty handed. If you criticize Governor Bush for his actions, you're Christian Bashing.

If you question the wisdom of a father sending his 10-year-old son to be arrested trying to take water into Terri, you're Christian bashing and you hate God.

There are 70 other patients in that hospice. They're all dying. Because of the protestors they can't come outside the hospice to sit in their gardens and enjoy their last Spring. If you say that the protestors are hurting the other dying patients at the hospice, you're Christian bashing.

If you mention that Randall Terry, the Schindler's chief spokesman, has repeatedly called for Christians to conquer America for God and to turn it into a Christian theocracy, you're Christian bashing.

If you tell a woman standing outside of the hospice with a sign that says "rehabilitate Terri," that Terri can't be rehabilitated, you're Christian bashing.

If you suggest that the Republican Party is being held hostage by religious extremists ... you guessed it. You're Christian bashing.

This story will not die after Terri Schiavo passes away. Republicans will be feeling the repercussions for some time to come. Randall Terry will be sad to discover that the majority of Americans don't want a Christian Theocracy. They want to live in a society where people are free to practice their religion as they see fit, but where they are not free to use the police power of government to impose their religious beliefs on other people. Most Americans now realize that Terri Schiavo has already been kidnapped. Jeb Bush would have been too late. She's been kidnapped by religious extremists and the anti-abortion movement. To point this out is, of course, to engage in Christian bashing. Most Americans don't want complete strangers to be able to use the police power of government to interfere with their wishes as to how their final days should play out. They are overwhelmingly disgusted with the eagerness of the Republican Party to pass one specific law relating to one specific issue with one specific individual ... all to pander to the anti-abortion movement. This is not something they will soon forget.

Have you stopped for a moment to consider the long-term consequences of the Republican Party's fawning over these religious extremists? Watch President Bush's judicial nominees. Watch the Democrats use the Schiavo matter to illustrate what might happen to other Americans if Bush's nominees are confirmed. And watch the congressional elections next year. If it's close, and if the Republicans lose their majority, look back to the crowd gathered since last week in Pinellas Park for an explanation. That, too, is Christian bashing. :cool:

http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html

[cocky4ever]

That article makes a good point. Thats why as much as I hate to say that there were days that I would've prefered her to die I am glad that she didnt pass away on Fri. or Sun. That would've just fueled the fire even more.

[Tator]

On the contrary, Congress (legislative branch) and the President (executive branch) do have the same "qualities" as you mention that the judicial branch has...hence the "separation of powers", that was created in our Constitution. The Judicial branch is responsible for 'interpreting' the law (legislation) that has been passed by Congress. I just don't see how anyone can totally blame the judicial system, in this case or any case for that matter. Their job is to hear the case, evidence, etc. and interpret the state (or federal) LAW that is written and apply it to the case. The LAW that they interpret from has been written by Congress (legislative) and signed off by the President/Governor (executive).

I understand the separation of powers and the duties/responsibilities assigned to each branch. However, does allowing or using hearsay to render a verdict also fall within judicial branch’s job description? There were no legally recognizable documents (or credible 1st hand witnesses) produced by the husband’s attorney which added validity to the claim that Terri stated that she did not want to be kept alive. This made the husband’s claim HEARSAY. I know of no LAW written by Congress (legislative), signed off by the President/Governor (executive) and interpreted by the courts (judicial) that allows for hearsay to be used as the basis of a judicial decree. If I have missed this written, signed and interpreted law, please enlighten me.

[Neo]

I understand the separation of powers and the duties/responsibilities assigned to each branch. However, does allowing or using hearsay to render a verdict also fall within judicial branch’s job description? There were no legally recognizable documents (or credible 1st hand witnesses) produced by the husband’s attorney which added validity to the claim that Terri stated that she did not want to be kept alive. This made the husband’s claim HEARSAY. I know of no LAW written by Congress (legislative), signed off by the President/Governor (executive) and interpreted by the courts (judicial) that allows for hearsay to be used as the basis of a judicial decree. If I have missed this written, signed and interpreted law, please enlighten me.


It's used in court all the time. It's like when a person testifies that the accused said this or that.

Hearsay in a court setting is hearing something via a third (3rd) party that is not directly involved. :cool:

[uscballer101]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050328/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman_29

[Neo]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050328/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman_29


They're (Family) is grasping at straws for any and everything. :cool:

[uscballer101]

yeah I know...I just want everyone to see the stuff...I still say Gov has no place to interfere...

[Neo]

yeah I know...I just want everyone to see the stuff...I still say Gov has no place to interfere...


Bingo!!!! :cool:

[cocky4ever]

I understand the separation of powers and the duties/responsibilities assigned to each branch. However, does allowing or using hearsay to render a verdict also fall within judicial branch’s job description? There were no legally recognizable documents (or credible 1st hand witnesses) produced by the husband’s attorney which added validity to the claim that Terri stated that she did not want to be kept alive. This made the husband’s claim HEARSAY. I know of no LAW written by Congress (legislative), signed off by the President/Governor (executive) and interpreted by the courts (judicial) that allows for hearsay to be used as the basis of a judicial decree. If I have missed this written, signed and interpreted law, please enlighten me.
Courts generally employ rules of evidence during trials, and a well known rule of evidence holds that hearsay is admissible to prove something only in limited circumstances. Under Florida law, there are about 30 or so such circumstances. You could say that one of them applies here, such as the exception for statements describing the declarant's then-existing state of mind. You could also say that Terri's statements were not hearsay, since they were offered to prove she said those words, not to prove that what she said was true. Hearsay is an out of court assertion offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted.

Those are evidentiary reasons why the testimony was admissible. There's a better reason. A constitutional reason. Terri had, and every Florida citizen has, a constitutional right to privacy that includes the right to decide that certain medical treatments should not be used to prolong her life. The Florida Supreme Court has clearly decided that this right can be exercised through written and oral statements.

Plus it was the testimony of not one person but FIVE, out of whom I may add that NONE of them were cross-examined by the Schindlers attorney. If the parents werent convinced by the testimonies of these 5 people why did they not question them under oath? Not to mention the evidence given by medical doctors about her condition. The trial was set up so that none of her Consitutional Rights were taken away according to the system we have. Me and anyone else on here would have been given the same rights, no more, no less.

Plus even if there had been something that was left out, mis-interpreted, or done in a way that violated Terri's rights that is why we have an even further seperation of powers. They went through the circuit court, which heard the case based on testimonies and evidence by BOTH sides. Then they went to the District Court, which for their district is in ATL. They went through that court to make sure Terri had been afforded the rights guaranteed to her as a citizen of the state of FL and to make sure that there was no evidence left out that would've had enough of an impact to change the 1st judges ruling. Then they went to the Supreme Court to double check she had been given her rights as not only a citizen of FL. but as an American Citizen as well. They all said the same thing. People may not like the decision but you cant really say she wasnt given any rights. She has had more legal representation than anyone could've had who was poor.

[cocky4ever]

They're (Family) is grasping at straws for any and everything. :cool:
Exactly. I keep hearing these tales of Terri trying to talk and some have even said she was being quote "animated". Why dont they video tape it and show the world to prove once and for all that she has a chance? Why not just show that they were right all along? You know why,because she isnt gonna recover. I saw a cat scan of hers from 2002 today and she doesnt even have a cerebral cortex. Plus they said that based on earlier cat scans the condition is getting worse, not better. I dont know for sure but I think that her brain is drowning very slowly in spinal fluid.I could be wrong there but that is an impression I got. Plus not to mention the fact that even if by some miracle her mind could all of a sudden have control even the tiniest muscle it wouldnt work. That is because after 15 years or atrophy the deterioration that has occured in her muscles would require months and maybe even years of therapy to overcome. But now she can all of a sudden move again? There is absolutely no way that they can convince me that she is animated,talking, or doing anything else now. Not unless I saw a video which isnt gonna happen because she isnt moving.

[allaboutavol]

Okay read this:

Myoclonus : Involuntary Muscle Contractions

Myoclonus describes a symptom and generally is not a diagnosis of a disease. It refers to sudden, involuntary jerking of a muscle or group of muscles. Myoclonic twitches or jerks usually are caused by sudden muscle contractions, called positive myoclonus, or by muscle relaxation, called negative myoclonus. Myoclonic jerks may occur alone or in sequence, in a pattern or without pattern. They may occur infrequently or many times each minute. Myoclonus sometimes occurs in response to an external event or when a person attempts to make a movement. The twitching cannot be controlled by the person experiencing it.



What are the causes of myoclonus?

Myoclonus may develop in response to infection, head or spinal cord injury, stroke, brain tumors, kidney or liver failure, lipid storage disease, chemical or drug poisoning, or other disorders. Prolonged oxygen deprivation to the brain, called hypoxia, may result in posthypoxic myoclonus. Myoclonus can occur by itself, but most often it is one of several symptoms associated with a wide variety of nervous system disorders.

...Now then, I am thinking that, maybe, just maybe, if we focus on some of the key phrases here we as a whole may be able to figure this out....

key phrase #1:"The twitching cannot be controlled by the person experiencing it"
...Terri, yea, she is in a vegatative state, and the last time I checked, she was unable to control anything.

Key phrase #2:"Prolonged oxygen deprivation to the brain, called hypoxia, may result in posthypoxic myoclonus"
...I read somewhere that Terri was indeed without oxygen for quite a length of time, Oh yea, thats what started this whole thing.

Key phrase #3:"it is one of several symptoms associated with a wide variety of nervous system disorders"
...I don't even need to add one of my smart-a*# comments here do I?

I have to disagree with Neo, for the first time in my history here, but I DO NOT think that her family is grasping at anything other than their own selfishness, except maybe insanity. These sorry people call themselves good Christians, and good parents, knowing damn good and well that their child would be mortified if she were aware that someone was bathing her and and changing her diaper. Isn't this the woman who was so self concious that she resorted to binging and purging in order to change the way she looked, thus resulting in her own demise? Now her parents want to continue to humiliate her because she is responding to them? No you idiots, she isn't. They are so pissed that she doesn't even know that they are there, that they will say anything to make themselves and anyone else believe she is fine, welcome to Egypt y'all, D'Nile is runnin' strong and fast, but at what cost?

[jbuzbee]

I also agree that I'm not entirely sure the husband is such a nice guy whose simply respecting her wishes. It's not because he moved on, however. The woman is basically dead. It's been 15 years and she can't talk or communicate in any way, shape, or form. I have no problem with him finding a new love and moving on with his life for these reasons. It's not like he could divorce her anyway, because if he did then he would no longer have a say in the matter and her parents would keep her in this state until her eventual death. However, I read something a couple days ago that said she entered this state eight years before he tried to have the feeding tube removed. If she didn't want to be kept alive like this then why did he take eight years? That just seems odd to me.

Depending on Florida law, states divorce statutes differ...he might not be able to divorce her without "grounds" (basically for property division purposes)....at least thats the case in Arkansas. Also, personally I would want the plug pulled...but I also wouldn't be so thoughtless as to not have a living will and to put my family into a position that her family is in now; not that I'm placing blame on her. But her husband...this guy's shady...he has a girlfriend, illegitimate kids, and now all the sudden (strangely right when he develops extreme financial difficulties) he remembers that she told him one time that she wouldn't want to be kept alive artificially. I'm all for people's wishes being carried out, whatever they may be....I just want to make sure they really are their wishes. Letting her die, as peacefully as possible, is the most merciful thing to do.

[cocky4ever]

Okay read this:

Myoclonus : Involuntary Muscle Contractions

Myoclonus describes a symptom and generally is not a diagnosis of a disease. It refers to sudden, involuntary jerking of a muscle or group of muscles. Myoclonic twitches or jerks usually are caused by sudden muscle contractions, called positive myoclonus, or by muscle relaxation, called negative myoclonus. Myoclonic jerks may occur alone or in sequence, in a pattern or without pattern. They may occur infrequently or many times each minute. Myoclonus sometimes occurs in response to an external event or when a person attempts to make a movement. The twitching cannot be controlled by the person experiencing it.



What are the causes of myoclonus?

Myoclonus may develop in response to infection, head or spinal cord injury, stroke, brain tumors, kidney or liver failure, lipid storage disease, chemical or drug poisoning, or other disorders. Prolonged oxygen deprivation to the brain, called hypoxia, may result in posthypoxic myoclonus. Myoclonus can occur by itself, but most often it is one of several symptoms associated with a wide variety of nervous system disorders.

...Now then, I am thinking that, maybe, just maybe, if we focus on some of the key phrases here we as a whole may be able to figure this out....

key phrase #1:"The twitching cannot be controlled by the person experiencing it"
...Terri, yea, she is in a vegatative state, and the last time I checked, she was unable to control anything.

Key phrase #2:"Prolonged oxygen deprivation to the brain, called hypoxia, may result in posthypoxic myoclonus"
...I read somewhere that Terri was indeed without oxygen for quite a length of time, Oh yea, thats what started this whole thing.

Key phrase #3:"it is one of several symptoms associated with a wide variety of nervous system disorders"
...I don't even need to add one of my smart-a*# comments here do I?

I have to disagree with Neo, for the first time in my history here, but I DO NOT think that her family is grasping at anything other than their own selfishness, except maybe insanity. These sorry people call themselves good Christians, and good parents, knowing damn good and well that their child would be mortified if she were aware that someone was bathing her and and changing her diaper. Isn't this the woman who was so self concious that she resorted to binging and purging in order to change the way she looked, thus resulting in her own demise? Now her parents want to continue to humiliate her because she is responding to them? No you idiots, she isn't. They are so pissed that she doesn't even know that they are there, that they will say anything to make themselves and anyone else believe she is fine, welcome to Egypt y'all, D'Nile is runnin' strong and fast, but at what cost?
Interesting.. I guess I could see how people could mistake that as someone who is trying to move. I agree about the part about Terri being self-concious enough about her self to not wanna live like that. If she could look in the mirror and see the woman she used to be as fat and ugly, so much so that she starved herself until her brain shut down, then I have a feeling if she could see herself now she would not like what she saw.

[cocky4ever]

Depending on Florida law, states divorce statutes differ...he might not be able to divorce her without "grounds" (basically for property division purposes)....at least thats the case in Arkansas. Also, personally I would want the plug pulled...but I also wouldn't be so thoughtless as to not have a living will and to put my family into a position that her family is in now; not that I'm placing blame on her. But her husband...this guy's shady...he has a girlfriend, illegitimate kids, and now all the sudden (strangely right when he develops extreme financial difficulties) he remembers that she told him one time that she wouldn't want to be kept alive artificially. I'm all for people's wishes being carried out, whatever they may be....I just want to make sure they really are their wishes. Letting her die, as peacefully as possible, is the most merciful thing to do.
It wasnt really all of a sudden that he did this. It was after he had tried to rehabilitate her for years. Plus he stands to make no money off of this so why would he do it just because he has financial troubles? Not to mention the fact that Terri's parents encouraged him to start seeing other people as well. Anyway.. Im not gonna get on here and try to make him out to be a saint because I dont even know they guy. I am trying to say though that Im sure he probably has a better idea of what Terri would've wanted than anyone else.

[GeauxTo]

Doubts Raised On Schiavo Memo (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11250-2005Mar29.html)
(03/30/2005 © Washington Post)
Fresh from declaring victory over CBS News and its discredited National Guard memos about President Bush, some of the same bloggers are raising questions about a strategy memo, first reported by ABC News and The Washington Post, that cast the Schiavo right-to-die case as a partisan opportunity for Republicans to stick it to Democrats.

The Media once again never letting the facts get in the way of a good beating.

;)

[Tator]

It's used in court all the time. It's like when a person testifies that the accused said this or that.

Hearsay in a court setting is hearing something via a third (3rd) party that is not directly involved. :cool:

Yes, while it can be included as testimony to support evidence, it cannot be used as the sole means of rendering the verdict. If this was a criminal case, it would have been thrown out due to lack of evidence.

[cocky4ever]

Yes, while it can be included as testimony to support evidence, it cannot be used as the sole means of rendering the verdict. If this was a criminal case, it would have been thrown out due to lack of evidence.
Thats why, like I said in an earlier post, there are some cases in which hearsay is admissable as evidence. Although, like in an earlier post, it is explained that by the definition of the word that Schiavo's testimony wasnt "hearsay". The reason these type of testimonies are allowed is because that is all both sides have. What if the parents would've won the court case? Wouldnt it just be them saying they heard Terri say she would want to live like that. They had no evidence that she would want to be kept alive like that. It would just be them saying what they believe she would've wanted, and I personally think that her husband had a better idea of what she would've wanted in that situation.

[GamecocksRule]

Yes, while it can be included as testimony to support evidence, it cannot be used as the sole means of rendering the verdict. If this was a criminal case, it would have been thrown out due to lack of evidence.

Ok, I see what you are saying..you are implying that Judge Greer made his decision based ONLY on the testimony given in deposition and during the actual trial (by both Mr. Shiavo, his brother and sister and Mrs. Schindler). That is simply not true. Perhaps you should read the actual ruling yourself:

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder02-00.pdf

Aren't you forgetting the medical evidence, video tapes, notes from the Guardian Ad Litem, and the case law presented and argued by each side presented to the court as well?

[JBryant12]

She died today.....

[rebeldude]

She died today.....

Sad but true, They wouldn't even let her parents in the room to be with her when she died per the request of her unfaithful husband, what a joke.

[JaGuArApRiL]

I just wanted to note that seeing as none of us truely know what Terri's last's hours were like...and all we have are stories given by a Feud greater than any Ive ever seen...We can't judge those around us...It's not our job to judge...I do believe that this is a sad case that has drug on for many many many years...and now Terri can be at peace....

I MEAN COME ON YOU ALL...Isn't that what is important here...Forget the Feud...Terri is finally at a Peaceful State...That is all anyone ever really wanted...Regardless of the Hyped up Media...which Im surprised people still believe so whole-heartedly...

Im not here to judge how people feel..Im here to say Im glad this is over for her...May she be where the Sun always Shines...

That's all I have to say...My 5 cents...Jag

[JBryant12]

How you can call her husband unfaithful is beyond me....can you honestly say you would stay married to someone for 15 years who is not really alive???

[cocky4ever]

I just wanted to note that seeing as none of us truely know what Terri's last's hours were like...and all we have are stories given by a Feud greater than any Ive ever seen...We can't judge those around us...It's not our job to judge...I do believe that this is a sad case that has drug on for many many many years...and now Terri can be at peace....

I MEAN COME ON YOU ALL...Isn't that what is important here...Forget the Feud...Terri is finally at a Peaceful State...That is all anyone ever really wanted...Regardless of the Hyped up Media...which Im surprised people still believe so whole-heartedly...

Im not here to judge how people feel..Im here to say Im glad this is over for her...May she be where the Sun always Shines...

That's all I have to say...My 5 cents...Jag
Good post.

[rebeldude]

How you can call her husband unfaithful is beyond me....can you honestly say you would stay married to someone for 15 years who is not really alive???


Come on JB this is simple, the man was married to terri, regardless of her state he was married. And he has kids out of wedlock. Are you saying that is faithful? Your asking me how he could stay married for 15 yrs? Why in the world did he just not divorce her and let her parents handle it.

[rebeldude]

I just wanted to note that seeing as none of us truely know what Terri's last's hours were like...and all we have are stories given by a Feud greater than any Ive ever seen...We can't judge those around us...It's not our job to judge...I do believe that this is a sad case that has drug on for many many many years...and now Terri can be at peace....

I MEAN COME ON YOU ALL...Isn't that what is important here...Forget the Feud...Terri is finally at a Peaceful State...That is all anyone ever really wanted...Regardless of the Hyped up Media...which Im surprised people still believe so whole-heartedly...

Im not here to judge how people feel..Im here to say Im glad this is over for her...May she be where the Sun always Shines...

That's all I have to say...My 5 cents...Jag


Jag, you are absolutely right, Terri is better off, but My heart goes out to her parents who have had to deal with this ordeal for many years and will for the rest of their lives. When I read that her parents were refused entrance to her room, to be with her in her last minutes and were not allowed entrance until after her death, It made me sick. How Cruel is that?

[SeattleGamecocks]

R.I.P. and peace be w/ all her loved ones.

[JaGuArApRiL]

Jag, you are absolutely right, Terri is better off, but My heart goes out to her parents who have had to deal with this ordeal for many years and will for the rest of their lives. When I read that her parents were refused entrance to her room, to be with her in her last minutes and were not allowed entrance until after her death, It made me sick. How Cruel is that?

Yes but my point exactly YOU READ it...Who is to say what really happened...The Press and People tell you what they want you to hear...because that is how they pull you in...

Nietzche once said..."Not that you lied to me but that I no longer believe you - that is what has distressed me. " That is how I feel about The Press and Both of the families...They have both lied to make themselves look better. Terri is in a better place now.

[rebeldude]

Yes but my point exactly YOU READ it...Who is to say what really happened...The Press and People tell you what they want you to hear...because that is how they pull you in...

Nietzche once said..."Not that you lied to me but that I no longer believe you - that is what has distressed me. " That is how I feel about The Press and Both of the families...They have both lied to make themselves look better. Terri is in a better place now.

I understand your point (read it), However we base alot of our decisions on things that we read or hear, Anyway I will re-phrase it, If what I read is true, that the parents were not allowed in the room in Terri's last minutes, Well what a joke! I don't make a habit of judging how people feel, but I do have compassion for people, and being a parent I know that Terri's parents must be emotionally drained and possibly with this closier, maybe a little releaved. However they are feeling, they do deserve a little compasion from all of us. The reality of this whole ordeal (15 yrs of it) Lied or not, they just lost their daughter. You could say they lost her 15 yrs ago, but not in the eyes of a parent. She was still tangable, They lost her today.

[JaGuArApRiL]

One could also say they Kept her alive out of selfish needs as well and dont get me wrong.... I believe that her parents deserve the sympathy and love from the Nation. It is hard for any parent to lose a child regardless of the circumstances...my best prayers to all involved.

[OmahaBound]

Yeah, I think it's fair to say the Schindler family was wrong on this matter for all the right reasons.

[cocky4ever]

I wanna add to something April said earlier about the media. I think she's right about them making into such a big,divisive,controversial issue to get ratings. I also think that politicians are doing it too, both sides. As bad as it was for a family to go through that I think its fair to say that families go through controversial things like that all the time. Like I said in an earlier post I think this was used by both sides to rally support with their base. I hate for these types of things to happen but at least if this happened last year it would've been an election year. It would be easier for me to understand (not agree with though) if it was done with elections looming. If we havent even made it a 1/4 of the way though the 1st year after elections are they are at full speed ahead drawing up these divisive issues then Im scared to think of where our country will be in 3-4 years. There is a wedge being forced between this country and they just keep pounding away at it to try and come up with votes. I've said it before and I'll say it again. This whole process makes me want to puke violently.</