PhatPhil help nix attendance policy proposal

[ColonelKurtz]

Despite the support of the program's other HC's, PPEPP (PhatPhilEatsPhriedPhoods) stopped stuffing his jowls with Krispy Kreme's long enough to state that he didn't agree with holding the Free-Riding Football players to different standards from those of Paying students. Prior remarks on the subject by PP stated a fear of putting the urnge at a competitive disadvantage....

The proposal would have excluded a SA's participation in the next contest if they had four or more unexcused absences in the same class. Yea, that's down right Draconian isn't it?

Wonder how PP is going to fight the looming Academic Progress regs which could strip scholarships away if there is compliance failure????

grade changing cheaters (http://tennessean.com/sports/ut/archives/05/01/65704734.shtml?Element_ID=65704734)

[OrangeCrush]

Despite the support of the program's other HC's, PPEPP (PhatPhilEatsPhriedPhoods) stopped stuffing his jowls with Krispy Kreme's long enough to state that he didn't agree with holding the Free-Riding Football players to different standards from those of Paying students. Prior remarks on the subject by PP stated a fear of putting the urnge at a competitive disadvantage....

The proposal would have excluded a SA's participation in the next contest if they had four or more unexcused absences in the same class. Yea, that's down right Draconian isn't it?

Wonder how PP is going to fight the looming Academic Progress regs which could strip scholarships away if there is compliance failure????

grade changing cheaters (http://tennessean.com/sports/ut/archives/05/01/65704734.shtml?Element_ID=65704734)

And what is Georgia's standards for class attendance?

[ColonelKurtz]

And what is Georgia's standards for class attendance?

Funny, I thought the subject and the article were about Ewe-tee....! Amazing, are all you hickolian heathens linked like urnge borg so that you all post the same thing? That is the exact same response I got on two other boards! Will wonders Ever cease?

Class & Study Hall attendance is mandatory under Richt and the tolerance for repeat offenses is very low, two classes unexcused is the widely mentioned number as newly NFL departed LB Odell Thurman's 3 game suspension to begin the '04 season was for such offense.

[JBryant12]

Funny, I thought the subject and the article were about Ewe-tee....! Amazing, are all you hickolian heathens linked like urnge borg so that you all post the same thing? That is the exact same response I got on two other boards! Will wonders Ever cease?

Class & Study Hall attendance is mandatory under Richt and the tolerance for repeat offenses is very low, two classes unexcused is the widely mentioned number as newly NFL departed LB Odell Thurman's 3 game suspension to begin the '04 season was for such offense.

Hope thats the exact same respone you gave on the other two boards :D

[OrangeCrush]

Funny, I thought the subject and the article were about Ewe-tee....! Amazing, are all you hickolian heathens linked like urnge borg so that you all post the same thing? That is the exact same response I got on two other boards! Will wonders Ever cease?

Class & Study Hall attendance is mandatory under Richt and the tolerance for repeat offenses is very low, two classes unexcused is the widely mentioned number as newly NFL departed LB Odell Thurman's 3 game suspension to begin the '04 season was for such offense.

Calm down Colonel, get you shorts un-torqued. I asked a simple question and it seems to be a popular question :D My reasoning for asking said question can be put forth this way. All I am looking for is a level playing field. Why should UT put in stronger standards than the rest of the SEC? If the SEC wants to adapt to the proposed class attendance requirements proposed in the article, then I am all for it. If UT simply keeps class attendance rules the same as it does for the rest of their student body, then I have no beefs. Would it be better if the standards were higher and players were held more accountable(SEC, not just the Vols)? Yes, it would. Since when should a student athlete be held more accountable for going to class than a regular student? Tell me anyone, who is on scholarship(academics, atheltics) should be on a higher standard and I'm with you. Otherwise, you are coming off as a Vol-hating dawg who looks to take shots any chance you get. Are you 100% positive on the Dawgs class attendance policy or is this just hearsay? What do you mean when you say "tolerance for repeat offenders is low"? Can you go into more detail? Was Odell Thurman suspended because he missed 2 classes or was a repeat offender? Do you know UT's policy when it comes to class attendance? What about the rest of the SEC schools? Am I straying away from the topic too much? Should I just start with the "UGA fans are pissed off because they still cannot get over the fact that they lost at home to UT(which is inferior in everyway to UGA) after whipping LSU." Do you console yourself with the knowledge that if UT and UGA had played 10 more games with their respective 2004 squads, that UGA should have won all 10? Are you going through Greene and Pollack withdrawl? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Volnooga]

Yawn...
How many times in the last season did you hear this phrase?

Did you see David Green's test score?!?! My God the kid is a genius!

Fulmer is a football coach, not a professor. In today's college football world, I think all schools have shown that the current feelings of the schools are "Win, or you're fired. Every Damn season too." [see cutcliffe] So, a coach wanted to shoot down a policy that might keep a few of his best players off the field since losing means losing your job. Wow, Imagine that

Go on, continue to throw your rocks at UT and It's coach, but don't fake concern for the athletes. The bottom line between these programs and their fans and boosters, your school included, is winning. Don't believe me, ask the last several coaches you all fired.

[Volnooga]

C'mon everyone, this is the part where you hide your true feelings and yell at me for being a win at all costs fan with no respect for the Student-athlete title.. You can do, I know you can!

[GRASSHOPPER]

C'mon everyone, this is the part where you hide your true feelings and yell at me for being a win at all costs fan with no respect for the Student-athlete title.. You can do, I know you can!IT'S JUST REALITY!

[Volnooga]

Fact is no team, I don't care what that team or it's coach says about their academic standards, has ever redshirted a RB because he had a 3.8 GPA, and never will.

[Volnooga]

DUdeman, why did this get moved, I know it is soley about UT footbal, but most on the site don't read the sub forums.. It is the off season and wew should over organize everything. :)

It was something interesting to talk about.

[dudeman0501]

This isn't a subforum. It's a top-level forum with the exact same visibility as the football forum.

I try to keep things organized all the time, not just the off season.

If you use the New Posts button, you never have to worry about a thread being seen. Besides, you shouldn't worry about it anyway.

[Volnooga]

Instead of all this organising... would you rather be flying? ;)

Just don't thin many DAWG fans or LSU fans come to this page as often.

[JBryant12]

Instead of all this organising... would you rather be flying? ;)

Just don't thin many DAWG fans or LSU fans come to this page as often.

I wonder why..... :D
I don't think athletes should be held to a higher standard than other students...they are still in their teens and low 20s and they are going to make mistakes and slack off on some work....is having the pressure to perform in the toughest conference in the nation not enough pressure on these kids....i mean really if they pass the requirements i dont believe people should look down on them if they have a 2.0 a 3.0 or a 4.0 as long as they are representing student athletes well... :D

[Volnooga]

OMG.. is that.. dare I say it.. Logic?!?!

[JBryant12]

OMG.. is that.. dare I say it.. Logic?!?!

you seem surprised.... :D

[Volnooga]

Well, a lot of fans use stuff like this to throw rocks at their opponents. If you were a UT fan I wouldn't be suprised, as everyone uses logic when the finger is pointed at them, it's when it is poited at other schools when the logic fails..

[ColonelKurtz]

Looks like it may take a while to learn all the bells & whistles available on this site...

As I initially stated, UGA does have guidelines for attendance. Richt's own standards are more severe than these basic standards as are those of BB HC Felton.

From:
Susan Lahey
Director of Academic Counseling
UGA Athletic Association

Here is the attendance policy for student-athletes, as
stated in our policy manual:

The University of Georgia Athletic Association (UGAA) is
commited to the proposition that academic achievement is not,
and should not be, a gift. Rather, to achieve success in the
classroom as well as in their respective sports is a
challenge that must be met by each of our student- athletes.

Student-athletes must miss some classes as a result of travel
and scheduled competition. These absences are anticipated and
are generally excused. However, excessive unexcused absences
cannot be permitted as they are in conflict with the concept
of “student-athlete.” This concept is strongly endorsed by
the UGAA.

The UGAA expects all student-athletes to attend classes, to
complete all assignments, and to exhibit appropriate behavior
in class. As one way of trying to assist our student-athletes
in meeting their academic challenges, and thereby achieve
their academic goals, the UGAA has adopted the following
attendance policy with the understanding that each sport may
endorse a more restrictive policy.

ATTENDANCE POLICY
Student-athletes bear responsibility for informing their
professors of impending class absences and for making
arrangements to complete all missed work. Problems in
completing missed work are to be reported to the Academic
Counseling Unit (ACU) in the Athletic Association by the end
of the next class day. Student-athletes are not permitted,
under any circumstance, to miss class to attend practice,
since this is a violation of NCAA rules.

Lower Division Students (Students with less than 60 hours of
credit or JC transfers who were ineligible for admission to
UGA upon graduation from high school).

Lower division students who have five unexcused absences
reported to the ACU will be suspended from competition. These
students are required to meet with the Associate Athletic
Director for Student Services and will result in further 10%
game/event suspensions.
Student-athletes attending Academic Assistance classes are
reminded that daily class attendance is mandatory and will be
reported to the ACU. Sanctions will be enforced at the first
reported absence.

Upper Division Students (Students with over 60 hours credit
and admitted to their degree program and second year JC
transfers)

All student-athletes admitted to upper division classes and
who maintain a grade point average of 2.25 or better, need to
follow the attendance policy as outlined by the professor of
each course.

For all upper division students whose GPA is less than 2.25,
six unexcused absences will result in a suspension from
competition. These students are required to meet with the
Associate Athletic Director for Student Services and will
receive notice that subsequent absences will result in
further 10% game/event suspensions.

The ACU staff will use the following methods to monitor class
a attendance:

Monitoring of class attendance (counselors, interns, graduate
assistants)
Direct mail requests
Telephone calls to professors
E-mail communication with professors
Personal visits with professors
Sanctions for Unexcused Absences
These sanctions pertain to the number of classes missed, not
the point at which the ACU is notified of classes missed.
Disciplinary action for missed classes, prior to reaching the
number calling for suspension, rests in the hands of the head
coach of each sport.

First absence – Reported to head coach
Second absence – Reported to head coach
Third absence – Reported to Athletic Director, Head Coach and
supervising associate/assistant athletic director
Fourth absence – The student-athlete will receive a written
notification that subsequent absences will result in a 10%
game/event suspension and directions for the athlete to
schedule a meeting with the Associate Athletic Director for
Student Services (additional absences will result in
suspension whether or not the athlete has the meeting with
the Associate Athletic Director for Student Services).
Fifth absence (lower division) or Sixth absence (upper
division with less than 2.25) – Student- athletes will be
suspended from 10% of his/her athletic competition. Each
subsequent absence will result in an additional 10%
game/event suspension. Parents(s)/guardian(s) will be
notified as to reason for suspension.
Process to Appeal Absences:
If a student-athlete believes the information related to
absences is not accurate, he/she has three (3) working days
from the time of receipt of the letter from ACU to formally
appeal to the Associate Athletic Director for Student
Services. This appeal is to be made in person and any
pertinent documentation to support the student’s perspective
should be presented.

Suspension Criteria:
The suspended events will be the next consecutive events in
the schedule, including post-season games or events.
The student-athlete and the head coach must have received a
written warning from the Associate Athletic Director for
Student Services prior to suspension from competition. In the
event the the ACU’s first report indicates the student-
athlete has already accumulated seven (7) or more absences
the requirement for written notification is waived.
Coaches may have a more stringent policy, but it must be
communicated to the team at the beginning of the school year.
The Athletic Director, upon the recommendation from the
Associate Athletic Director for Student Services and in
conjunction with the faculty committee of the Athletic Board
and the Faculty Athletic Representative, may modify an
individual’s suspension based on the following criteria:
The grade of the student in the course
The student’s overall cumulative grade point average
Progress towards a degree for upper division students

I hope this is the information that you needed.
Susan Lahey
Director of Academic Counseling
UGA Athletic Association
P. O. Box 1472
Athens, GA 30603
(706) 542-8375
Fax (706) 542-8404

[fernandomike]

Yes, these Dawgs should all be rewarded with perfect attendance certificates!

[cocky4ever]

Almost every student athlete in the country is going to go on to be productive with their life in something other than sports.I think that all people with scholarships, not just athletes, should have rules in place to make sure they attend and pass classes with a decent grade. If a student is on an academic scholarship and starts missing classes or making subpar grades they will have their scholarship revoked. Why should it be different with student athletes. The reason for the schools is to help people become more productive and educated citizens, not just create great sports players. If you went to work tomorrow and decided you only wanted to do half your job what do you think would happen? You would be punished. If we are getting these kids ready for the real world then we need to start getting them ready for real world rules. There are already too many professional athletes who obviously dont have a concern about the rules of society. Where do you think that came from? Wherever it came from it needs to be taken care of before they are let out into the real world without supervision.

[Djshockley3]

Funny, I thought the subject and the article were about Ewe-tee....! Amazing, are all you hickolian heathens linked like urnge borg so that you all post the same thing? That is the exact same response I got on two other boards! Will wonders Ever cease?

Class & Study Hall attendance is mandatory under Richt and the tolerance for repeat offenses is very low, two classes unexcused is the widely mentioned number as newly NFL departed LB Odell Thurman's 3 game suspension to begin the '04 season was for such offense.

Yeah man Coach Richt don't play like fat phil does,Richt wants his kids to become christian,get a great education,and play football.Richt just does not want his kids to plan on playing in the NFL.By the way he goes to church every sunday with them.

[fernandomike]

Almost every student athlete in the country is going to go on to be productive with their life in something other than sports.I think that all people with scholarships, not just athletes, should have rules in place to make sure they attend and pass classes with a decent grade. If a student is on an academic scholarship and starts missing classes or making subpar grades they will have their scholarship revoked. Why should it be different with student athletes. The reason for the schools is to help people become more productive and educated citizens, not just create great sports players. If you went to work tomorrow and decided you only wanted to do half your job what do you think would happen? You would be punished. If we are getting these kids ready for the real world then we need to start getting them ready for real world rules. There are already too many professional athletes who obviously dont have a concern about the rules of society. Where do you think that came from? Wherever it came from it needs to be taken care of before they are let out into the real world without supervision.

A very nice post, Cocky, but I do disagree. This seems like a perfect example of an over-reaching, high-minded faculty to me. Administrators should not force student-athletes to follow rules not in place with the general student body. If you want an attendance policy institute some kind of punishment for non-athletes as well. What's next? Using the same logic administrators could require student-athletes to be in their rooms by a certain time while the rest of the student body partied until the sun came up. It just isn't necessary. All that should be required academically of athletes is what is required of everyone else, reasonable progress toward graduation. The revocation of scholarships about to be instituted certainly forces coaches to make sure their players are making reasonable progress.

[OrangeCrush]

Looks like it may take a while to learn all the bells & whistles available on this site...

As I initially stated, UGA does have guidelines for attendance. Richt's own standards are more severe than these basic standards as are those of BB HC Felton.

From:
Susan Lahey
Director of Academic Counseling
UGA Athletic Association

Here is the attendance policy for student-athletes, as
stated in our policy manual:

The University of Georgia Athletic Association (UGAA) is
commited to the proposition that academic achievement is not,
and should not be, a gift. Rather, to achieve success in the
classroom as well as in their respective sports is a
challenge that must be met by each of our student- athletes.

Student-athletes must miss some classes as a result of travel
and scheduled competition. These absences are anticipated and
are generally excused. However, excessive unexcused absences
cannot be permitted as they are in conflict with the concept
of “student-athlete.” This concept is strongly endorsed by
the UGAA.

The UGAA expects all student-athletes to attend classes, to
complete all assignments, and to exhibit appropriate behavior
in class. As one way of trying to assist our student-athletes
in meeting their academic challenges, and thereby achieve
their academic goals, the UGAA has adopted the following
attendance policy with the understanding that each sport may
endorse a more restrictive policy.

ATTENDANCE POLICY
Student-athletes bear responsibility for informing their
professors of impending class absences and for making
arrangements to complete all missed work. Problems in
completing missed work are to be reported to the Academic
Counseling Unit (ACU) in the Athletic Association by the end
of the next class day. Student-athletes are not permitted,
under any circumstance, to miss class to attend practice,
since this is a violation of NCAA rules.

Lower Division Students (Students with less than 60 hours of
credit or JC transfers who were ineligible for admission to
UGA upon graduation from high school).

Lower division students who have five unexcused absences
reported to the ACU will be suspended from competition. These
students are required to meet with the Associate Athletic
Director for Student Services and will result in further 10%
game/event suspensions.
Student-athletes attending Academic Assistance classes are
reminded that daily class attendance is mandatory and will be
reported to the ACU. Sanctions will be enforced at the first
reported absence.

Upper Division Students (Students with over 60 hours credit
and admitted to their degree program and second year JC
transfers)

All student-athletes admitted to upper division classes and
who maintain a grade point average of 2.25 or better, need to
follow the attendance policy as outlined by the professor of
each course.

For all upper division students whose GPA is less than 2.25,
six unexcused absences will result in a suspension from
competition. These students are required to meet with the
Associate Athletic Director for Student Services and will
receive notice that subsequent absences will result in
further 10% game/event suspensions.

The ACU staff will use the following methods to monitor class
a attendance:

Monitoring of class attendance (counselors, interns, graduate
assistants)
Direct mail requests
Telephone calls to professors
E-mail communication with professors
Personal visits with professors
Sanctions for Unexcused Absences
These sanctions pertain to the number of classes missed, not
the point at which the ACU is notified of classes missed.
Disciplinary action for missed classes, prior to reaching the
number calling for suspension, rests in the hands of the head
coach of each sport.

First absence – Reported to head coach
Second absence – Reported to head coach
Third absence – Reported to Athletic Director, Head Coach and
supervising associate/assistant athletic director
Fourth absence – The student-athlete will receive a written
notification that subsequent absences will result in a 10%
game/event suspension and directions for the athlete to
schedule a meeting with the Associate Athletic Director for
Student Services (additional absences will result in
suspension whether or not the athlete has the meeting with
the Associate Athletic Director for Student Services).
Fifth absence (lower division) or Sixth absence (upper
division with less than 2.25) – Student- athletes will be
suspended from 10% of his/her athletic competition. Each
subsequent absence will result in an additional 10%
game/event suspension. Parents(s)/guardian(s) will be
notified as to reason for suspension.
Process to Appeal Absences:
If a student-athlete believes the information related to
absences is not accurate, he/she has three (3) working days
from the time of receipt of the letter from ACU to formally
appeal to the Associate Athletic Director for Student
Services. This appeal is to be made in person and any
pertinent documentation to support the student’s perspective
should be presented.

Suspension Criteria:
The suspended events will be the next consecutive events in
the schedule, including post-season games or events.
The student-athlete and the head coach must have received a
written warning from the Associate Athletic Director for
Student Services prior to suspension from competition. In the
event the the ACU’s first report indicates the student-
athlete has already accumulated seven (7) or more absences
the requirement for written notification is waived.
Coaches may have a more stringent policy, but it must be
communicated to the team at the beginning of the school year.
The Athletic Director, upon the recommendation from the
Associate Athletic Director for Student Services and in
conjunction with the faculty committee of the Athletic Board
and the Faculty Athletic Representative, may modify an
individual’s suspension based on the following criteria:
The grade of the student in the course
The student’s overall cumulative grade point average
Progress towards a degree for upper division students

I hope this is the information that you needed.
Susan Lahey
Director of Academic Counseling
UGA Athletic Association
P. O. Box 1472
Athens, GA 30603
(706) 542-8375
Fax (706) 542-8404

Thank you for getting the information. It would be nice to know what standards Richt and Felton hold their players to, but I believe you have done enough research. As far as UT goes, I do not doubt if Phil did not want this policy, then this policy had a chance. Tennessee is a football school that makes a lot of money from football. Phil is not going to do something that puts him at a disadvantage. I hope that the soon to be NCAA guidelines concerning graduation will help in the pursuit of academics for student athletes. Since earning the degree is the ultimate goal, I really do not care how the student does this as long as said student does the needed work to become a graduate. I have no clue as to what study hall requirements are for the football players and what standard is expected in attending class at UT. I do know that players have not played because of their lack of effort in academics when they were capable of being the #1 player at the position. Some end up turning the corner and being a student athlete that repersents the university well. Others never make it out of the dog-house and we never here about them again. It will be interesting to see if UT adopts an overall class attendance policy in the future or will leave it up to the disgression of professors or heads of department to do this.

It would be interestiong to see what the other SEC schools use as guidelines for class attendance. Spurrier is known to run a clean ship. I would expect Croom to do the same at MSU. The rest of the coaches, I have no clue as to what to expect.

One more thing Col, when did Richt institute his policy? Has it been like this from day one(since he was hired) or was it a response from the non-sense that Harrick brought upon your school. This is not a dig at your school, maybe your president for bringing in Harrick, but not at your school.

[ColonelKurtz]

Orange Crush, when Richt became HC, he brought in new everything. Under JD, a player's coach, there was WAY too much embarassing off-field stuff going on, and the players pretty much did as they pleased. S&C was offseason optional and there wasn't a year-round program of oversight.

There is a very clear Richt method and they guys have responded well to it, the word of 'sinners' declines with every class, though there are some shenanigans that go on which earn guys time on the six o'clock club conditioning drills which operate year round, btw. The emphasis on life after their football careers are over is the most impressive thing I suppose, community service is something Richt believes in and the guys do, along with the atmosphere of personal responsibility for one's comportment and academic progress. The team's on campus perception has grown measurably and even the local Athens folks have noticed a difference.

Don't know what you know about the Harrick deal, but Jr. snookered an Academic Overseer and blatantly violated University policy. People make mistakes but Jr. intended for his guys to get the credits then needed. Ugly it was, but corrected and with some painful seasons to show for it. Felton is Day compared with the Night of Harrick, a strict disiplinarian who requires the team to share Breakfast every morning together, generally at 7am. Like Richt, he is directily involved with his players and devotes extra time to those who need it.

Hope that provides you and others with more insight than you had.

[OrangeCrush]

I wish no Harricks had ever spent a day on the UGA campus. While I am all for second chances, Harrick has been shady at best for most of his career. Harrick Jr. falls into the category that the apple does not fall to far from the tree. I believe it was Adams that brought him in and therefore I do not feel bad taking a shot at him. I wish Dennis Felton as much success as he can bring to the hoops program(well all but two games a year).

It was nice to see that Richt installed the policy when he became the head coach. It sounds a lot better than it being a re-action to the problems with the Harricks. It also seems that the policy is working well and I hope it continues.

[huskerfan]

you guys worry way to much about phils problems. he has nothing to worry about. if his players get removed for not attending class. he will just go buy more. don't worry be happy fulmer fans[while you can]

[fernandomike]

Huskerfan,
I am curious as to why your profile lists UT as your favorite SEC team. I have reviewed your 12 posts and about 9 of them talk about what a dirty program Fulmer runs. You aren't really a Vols fan, are you?

[huskerfan]

Huskerfan,
I am curious as to why your profile lists UT as your favorite SEC team. I have reviewed your 12 posts and about 9 of them talk about what a dirty program Fulmer runs. You aren't really a Vols fan, are you?
yes i am i love watching the lady vols they give great effort they do things the right way. you din't have to justify summits actions they speak for themselves. i would love to have the football program gain the respect that the lady vols have. it will never happen under fulmer. i am a vol fan i am not a fulmer fan. you don't have to go to the penal system or to someones funeral to see a lady vol. but you might need to for the footballers. im sorry i let myself be put in this position. time for some of you vol fans to become real vol fans and not fulmer fans. i wonder how much the graduation rate between lady vols and phils team differs. i know that i have been told that b-ball players dont get the diplomas that the footballers do.

[fernandomike]

I can respect that, though remember Tom Osborne had all kinds of problems with these type of things as well. Also, women graduate more than men. Women ATHLETES probably a lot more than their male counterparts. So, any difference between Fulmer's bunch and the lady vols is surely reflective of the situation nationwide. The new NCAA policies will help to shrink the difference. But, class attendance guidelines should be left to the individual professors and coaches, not administrators. I would hate to see a player from any school with EXCELLENT grades have to miss so many games because of such an unnecessary rule. Anyway, glad to hear that you are a Vols fan, though a disgruntled one, instead of a imposter.

[huskerfan]

I can respect that, though remember Tom Osborne had all kinds of problems with these type of things as well. Also, women graduate more than men. Women ATHLETES probably a lot more than their male counterparts. So, any difference between Fulmer's bunch and the lady vols is surely reflective of the situation nationwide. The new NCAA policies will help to shrink the difference. But, class attendance guidelines should be left to the individual professors and coaches, not administrators. I would hate to see a player from any school with EXCELLENT grades have to miss so many games because of such an unnecessary rule. Anyway, glad to hear that you are a Vols fan, though a disgruntled one, instead of a imposter.
coach osborne accomplished more with less talent. both of nebraskas wins against tn were done with inferior talent. that is one of the problems with phil. the win over fla. was done with less talent. osborne very seldom got out coached. his graduation rate was better than fulmers and he had many more athletic all americans not to mention national championships. ones a coach, ones a crooked businessman. sorry to get personal but you ask me to remember. go big red go vols leave phil

[OrangeCrush]

coach osborne accomplished more with less talent. both of nebraskas wins against tn were done with inferior talent. that is one of the problems with phil. the win over fla. was done with less talent. osborne very seldom got out coached. his graduation rate was better than fulmers and he had many more athletic all americans not to mention national championships. ones a coach, ones a crooked businessman. sorry to get personal but you ask me to remember. go big red go vols leave phil

And what do you base Phil being crooked on? Both Osbourne and Phil have had their share of good and bad players. Please do not take this as an attack as I want to know why you consider Phil a crooked business man and not a coach? Thanks in advance, J

[Djshockley3]

yes i am i love watching the lady vols they give great effort they do things the right way. you din't have to justify summits actions they speak for themselves. i would love to have the football program gain the respect that the lady vols have. it will never happen under fulmer. i am a vol fan i am not a fulmer fan. you don't have to go to the penal system or to someones funeral to see a lady vol. but you might need to for the footballers. im sorry i let myself be put in this position. time for some of you vol fans to become real vol fans and not fulmer fans. i wonder how much the graduation rate between lady vols and phils team differs. i know that i have been told that b-ball players dont get the diplomas that the footballers do.

This is my kinda guy even vol fans don't like fat phil,cause he is a dirty man.

[Djshockley3]

And what do you base Phil being crooked on? Both Osbourne and Phil have had their share of good and bad players. Please do not take this as an attack as I want to know why you consider Phil a crooked business man and not a coach? Thanks in advance, J

Because he is dirty and everyone knows it except you UT fans cause you guys don't wanna here it.

[OrangeCrush]

Because he is dirty and everyone knows it except you UT fans cause you guys don't wanna here it.

I had such high hopes for you Shockley. Again, will you or Husker fan explain what makes Phil so dirty? The "everyone knows it" is weak at best. Step up to the plate with some evidence. Otherwise, you are a pup who most should not pay attention to. It is the same old song and dance from the envious who cannot take Phil being the dean of SEC coaches.

[Djshockley3]

I had such high hopes for you Shockley. Again, will you or Husker fan explain what makes Phil so dirty? The "everyone knows it" is weak at best. Step up to the plate with some evidence. Otherwise, you are a pup who most should not pay attention to. It is the same old song and dance from the envious who cannot take Phil being the dean of SEC coaches.

I will give you an example,do you remember kenny smith that played football at UT.He said he never went to class and all he had to do was run a little.What about linda benzilmire the professor at UT.And how about tee martin.UT is very dirty,you know it fat phil would rather have a good football team.Then help the kids have a future life besides the nfl,selling drugs or working at the gas station.

[OrangeCrush]

I will give you an example,do you remember kenny smith that played football at UT.He said he never went to class and all he had to do was run a little.What about linda benzilmire the professor at UT.And how about tee martin.UT is very dirty,you know it fat phil would rather have a good football team.Then help the kids have a future life besides the nfl,selling drugs or working at the gas station.

Did Kenny Smith stay on the team? Is he one of the ones that has filed a lawsuit under Gaillion? Linda bensil stuff was investigated and no problems were found by the NCAA. Tee Martin case was found to not be NCAA sanctions. Is this where you tell me that the NCAA is in bed with Tennessee?

[fernandomike]

I imagine if you examine the nearly 600 posts from DJ you would find them long on accusations and short on proven facts. In fact, I can sum them up right here. UGA good. UT bad. Bama second best. Thats about it

[Djshockley3]

Yes, lol,and he didn't stay on the team.Linda got death threats from you crazy UT fans.

[Djshockley3]

I imagine if you examine the nearly 600 posts from DJ you would find them long on accusations and short on proven facts. In fact, I can sum them up right here. UGA good. UT bad. Bama second best. Thats about it

Ok,you are right,but I don't talk bad about UT anymore i just joke around just like yall do with me.

[fernandomike]

Ok,you are right,but I don't talk bad about UT anymore i just joke around just like yall do with me.

If you are joking, them I apologize. I don't know you. All I know is what I read. I will try to remember that next time.

[Djshockley3]

Man i joke around with yall all of you UT fans are cool with me on here.You all seem very knowledgeable about SEC football and I like sec fans.Except the ones that are ignorant no matter what team they support.

[fernandomike]

Man i joke around with yall all of you UT fans are cool with me on here.You all seem very knowledgeable about SEC football and I like sec fans.Except the ones that are ignorant no matter what team they support.

I have never been much for message boards, but I like this one a lot. Most of the fans are knowledgeable and polite. But, there are always a few whose sole purpose seems to be to sling mud at their rivals. The best ones on here more than make up for the bad ones though

[cocky4ever]

I have never been much for message boards, but I like this one a lot. Most of the fans are knowledgeable and polite. But, there are always a few whose sole purpose seems to be to sling mud at their rivals. The best ones on here more than make up for the bad ones though
I agree this is a great forum.

[Djshockley3]

I have never been much for message boards, but I like this one a lot. Most of the fans are knowledgeable and polite. But, there are always a few whose sole purpose seems to be to sling mud at their rivals. The best ones on here more than make up for the bad ones though

Am i one of the good ones,lol.

[Neo]

I can respect that, though remember Tom Osborne had all kinds of problems with these type of things as well.

Actually, Tom Osborne's graduation rate was one of the highest in the country while he was coaching NU. :D

[fernandomike]

By mentioning Osborne, I was speaking more to off-field issues. I am not trying to sling mud. I just find it peculiar that a guy loves the Big Red and claims to love the Vols, but nearly all his posts pound the Vols for similar problems. I believe that UT's graduation rate, though bad, is improving. I have no problems with people being SINCERELY bothered by graduation rates since it is something that is tangible and proveable by numbers. Its the buying players stuff which has not been proven. While, I have come to expect Ut's rivals to speculate that we are lining recruits pockets with the implied consent of the NCAA. I am very surprised to hear a Ut fan say the same things.
Honestly, I doubt that very many people on here give a rat's butt about graduation rates. Really, how many of you know what your school's rate is without looking it up? Now, how many games did your team win? I bet you have a lot better chance of answering the second question than the first. Other than this one, how many threads or even posts are on here regarding graduation rates or education in general? Like I said, the NCAA has acted wisely in forcing teams to improve in these areas. All teams are going to get a lot better in a hurry or suffer tough consequences. These reforms have not been widely publicized either here or in the mainstream media. That is because only a few care. The rest of us use it as yet another tool to cast a rival in a bad light.

[USAFGAMECOCK]

By mentioning Osborne, I was speaking more to off-field issues. I am not trying to sling mud. I just find it peculiar that a guy loves the Big Red and claims to love the Vols, but nearly all his posts pound the Vols for similar problems. I believe that UT's graduation rate, though bad, is improving. I have no problems with people being SINCERELY bothered by graduation rates since it is something that is tangible and proveable by numbers. Its the buying players stuff which has not been proven. While, I have come to expect Ut's rivals to speculate that we are lining recruits pockets with the implied consent of the NCAA. I am very surprised to hear a Ut fan say the same things.
Honestly, I doubt that very many people on here give a rat's butt about graduation rates. Really, how many of you know what your school's rate is without looking it up? Now, how many games did your team win? I bet you have a lot better chance of answering the second question than the first. Other than this one, how many threads or even posts are on here regarding graduation rates or education in general? Like I said, the NCAA has acted wisely in forcing teams to improve in these areas. All teams are going to get a lot better in a hurry or suffer tough consequences. These reforms have not been widely publicized either here or in the mainstream media. That is because only a few care. The rest of us use it as yet another tool to cast a rival in a bad light.

Very good points there Mike...I'm totally with you on the graduation rates. Yeah, it's college, and graduating is a good thing....we all know that. But when September rolls around, I'd imagine the majority of the people on this forum eat, drink, and sleep FOOTBALL. After watching USC play a game, I've never said, " Man that was a kick ass game! Now if we can only get those graduation rates up we'll ROCK!" Nor have I ever heard that said by anybody else. Education is important to the student/athlete, winning is important to the coaches and season ticket holding fans, along with everyone else who puts their hard earned money into going to see their team play. Now I'm not saying that they shouldn't worry about grades at all, there should be standards students should be held to, but as long as they meet those standards, who cares? :D

[GTmorris1970]

By mentioning Osborne, I was speaking more to off-field issues. I am not trying to sling mud. I just find it peculiar that a guy loves the Big Red and claims to love the Vols, but nearly all his posts pound the Vols for similar problems. I believe that UT's graduation rate, though bad, is improving. I have no problems with people being SINCERELY bothered by graduation rates since it is something that is tangible and proveable by numbers. Its the buying players stuff which has not been proven. While, I have come to expect Ut's rivals to speculate that we are lining recruits pockets with the implied consent of the NCAA. I am very surprised to hear a Ut fan say the same things.
Honestly, I doubt that very many people on here give a rat's butt about graduation rates. Really, how many of you know what your school's rate is without looking it up? Now, how many games did your team win? I bet you have a lot better chance of answering the second question than the first. Other than this one, how many threads or even posts are on here regarding graduation rates or education in general? Like I said, the NCAA has acted wisely in forcing teams to improve in these areas. All teams are going to get a lot better in a hurry or suffer tough consequences. These reforms have not been widely publicized either here or in the mainstream media. That is because only a few care. The rest of us use it as yet another tool to cast a rival in a bad light.

I have to tell you I for one do care about graduation rates. When any school quits caring, that is going to be like a plague throughout college sports, and all anyone is doing is short changing the athletes, because most are going to have to depend on that degree after college to do anything with their lives. There should be rules that are abided by in college just like you have in high school. It can be done. You can work hard at both, and succeed at both. I personally have a problem with athletes who are great on the field, yes, but when interviewed after a game cannot even hardly speak english. Leaves you wondering if they can spell their names. College athletics are meant to be something special, played by hard working STUDENT-athletes. If we are not going to make and enforce rules for them, let's just start paying them, and forget all this school mess. There ARE coaches in college football that run a clean, tight ship. And, still win on the field. Sometimes you have to make some examples. I personally have no problem with that. I fully expect that at Carolina very soon. :)

[GatorNation]

Ol' Phil at it again... ;)

Tennessean.com (http://tennessean.com/sports/ut/archives/05/01/65704734.shtml?Element_ID=65704734)

Gainesville Sun (http://www.gatorsports.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050219/GATORS24/50219009)

Sorry if this is old news. I didn't see a thread on it....so, I thought I'd pass it along, just in case.

[supergenius]

More of the same from tutorsee!!

[Volnooga]

HAHA... Congrats.

Moral victories for both your teams.

[GATA_Rob01]

Tennessee is a disgrace to the SEC

[fernandomike]

Tennessee is a disgrace to the SEC

We can only hope to have an athletic department void of infractions. We should use as our model the squeaky-clean universities of Alabama and Georgia.

[Djshockley3]

Tennessee is a disgrace to the SEC

LOL,i guess their is someone like me on here.

[fernandomike]

Gatorhead, Fulmer did not shelve the policy. The article in the Tennessean is titled "UT shelves attendance policy," only you chose to substitute Fulmer's name for the school in the labeling of this thread. You were, however, scrupulous enough to keep his name outside of the quotation marks. Still a bit deceptive, wouldn't you say? Furthermore, the Tennessean article goes on to explain that the university president also had reservations about the policy since there is no existing attendance policy governing the general student body. A logical concern, if you ask me.

[GATA_Rob01]

We can only hope to have an athletic department void of infractions. We should use as our model the squeaky-clean universities of Alabama and Georgia.

Right...and there musn't be anything dirty going on at UT...

You don't have to go to class...
Fulmer is a snitch...
and let us not forget about that little brawl before the SECCG

[Djshockley3]

Right...and there musn't be anything dirty going on at UT...

You don't have to go to class...
Fulmer is a snitch...
and let us not forget about that little brawl before the SECCG

I agree,fulmer is bringing UT down.One day they will get caught

[Volnooga]

Yea.. let's not forget any dirt since UGA players are all good christian role models..

A visit to your past... least ye forget.

TOLBERT, BRANDON
Georgia LB Brandon Tolbert arrested for simple battery for punching a student who allegedly was trying to break up a fight involving Bulldog players at a bar.
http://espn.go.com/editors/gen/features/crime/crimencf.html

ADRINE, BRUCE
McMICHAEL, RANDY
7/00
An arrest warrant for misdemeanor battery was issued Wednesday for Georgia defensive end Bruce Adrine over a barroom fight last month that left a female student with a black eye and stitches. The 21-year-old Adrine is accused of punching Amanda Kim, also 21, in the face during a June 15 melee at the Classic City Saloon in downtown Athens. Police didn't charge anyone in connection with the 2 a.m. fight, but Kim sought an arrest warrant before Clarke County Magistrate Judge Patricia Barron. Adrine's attorney, Kim Stephens, contended his client struck Kim by accident while defending himself against her boyfriend. Bulldogs coach Mark Richt suspended tight end Randy McMichael one game for his role in the fight. An undisclosed number of other players received internal discipline.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news/ap/20010808/ap-georgia-barfight.html

WILLIAMS, BRANDON
1/02
Three University of Georgia athletes on Tuesday pleaded innocent to all rape charges involving a female student earlier this year. Basketball players Steve Thomas and Tony Cole and football player Brandon Williams were charged with aggravated assault with intent to rape after a Jan. 14 incident in a campus dormitory. Thomas also was charged with rape, and Williams faces additional charges of rape and aggravated sexual battery. Police released an affidavit indicating that the female student had consensual sex with Cole, but was accosted by two other men later that night in Cole's dorm room. All three players were suspended from their teams two days later pending the investigation, but were reinstated within two weeks. A grand jury indicted the athletes April 4, and all three were suspended again from their teams in accordance with school policy. They also could face expulsion from the university.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news/ap/20020430/ap-georgiarape.html

BAILEY, KENNY
BELL, KENDRELL
BRANNON, ROBERT
BRYANT, DECORY
GILBERT, TONY
GRANT, CHARLES
SEYMOUR, RICHARD
Georgia suspended seven football players for one game each Monday for using a school long-distance code to make personal phone calls. The players used an access code left on a desk at the university's Athletic Association office to make calls costing between $58 and $116 each, the school said. Running back Kenny Bailey, tackle Richard Seymour, tight end Robert Brannon, cornerback Decory Bryant and linebackers Kendrell Bell, Tony Gilbert and Charles Grant each must sit out either Georgia's season opener against Georgia Southern or its game at South Carolina. They also will repay the charges, the school said in a statement. The university said nine other players also improperly used the long-distance code but avoided suspension because their charges were less than $50.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news/ap/20000731/ap-georgia-phonefraud.html

JENNINGS, TIM
McCLENDON, BRYAN
MINTER, DeMARIO
RALEY, MARIO
SWOOPES, RANDALL
4/03
Five University of Georgia football players were suspended for two games Tuesday after they and a basketball player were charged with misdemeanor drug possession. Football players Tim Jennings, Bryan McClendon, DeMario Minter, Mario Raley and Randall Swoopes -- all freshmen -- were booked and later released from the Clarke County jail. Football coach Mark Richt suspended the five players for the first two games of next season. He also ordered them to perform 30 hours of community service and participate in additional physical activity.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=ap-georgia-drugs&prov=ap&type=lgns

BAILEY, KENNY
BROWNING, TYSON
FIELDS, BJ
GIBSON, FRED
GOLSTON, KEDRIC
HICKMAN. CHRIS
JENNINGS, TIM
JOHNSON, MICHAEL
SMITH, JAMARIO
SWAIN, DARRIUS
TAYLOR, TONY
THORNTON, BRUCE
YOUNG, TREY
Nine Georgia football players were declared ineligible Wednesday by the NCAA for selling their 2002 Southeastern Conference championship rings. The group included senior receiver Michael Johnson and cornerbacks Kenny Bailey and Bruce Thornton, junior receiver Fred Gibson and four sophomores -- defensive tackle Darrius Swain, linebacker Tony Taylor, cornerback Tim Jennings and walk-on Trey Young. Freshman nose tackle Kedric Golston, who had already been cited by the university for selling his ring, was also declared ineligible. The school will appeal the NCAA's ruling. NCAA regulations do not prohibit student-athletes from selling rings as long as they receive no more than fair-market value. The university, which is working to recover the rings, did not say how much money the players received for the rings. The players will be required to make restitution for the money they received from the sale of their rings. In an unrelated developments, Richt suspended four sophomores for violation of team rules. B.J. Fields, Chris Hickman and Jamario Smith were each suspended for one game, and Tyson Browning was suspended for three.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/news/2003/0514/1553806.html

CALLAWAY, NEIL
4/03
Georgia offensive coordinator Neil Callaway was fined a month's salary by the school after spending a night in jail for drunken driving. Callaway said he was arrested last month at a license checkpoint while returning home from a golf outing, where he drank beer. Coach Mark Richt said he reprimanded Callaway and took away a month's salary, costing the assistant more than $11,000. Patrol spokesman Gordy Wright said officers noticed a vehicle backing up after it approached the checkpoint, so they pulled it over and arrested Callaway. The coach had a blood alcohol level of 0.098, slightly above the 0.08 limit under Georgia law, Wright said. Callaway pleaded guilty to DUI and illegal backing. He spent 24 hours in the Oconee County Jail last Saturday and was placed on 12 months' probation.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=ap-georgiacoach-dui&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Volnooga]

Also, Did you know that UGA and UF are only 2 out of 5 SEC schools to have an attendance policy. Guess what supergenius... your beloved UA isn't one of them..

[Djshockley3]

I am not saying,UGA players are all christian role models.I think most of them are,since richt has came to UGA we are a very disciplaned team.We have some very good role models on are team not a buntch of thugs.You are pulling stuff out from more than 5 years ago.You want me to pull out the rape charges from UT players.Are there any rape charges from UGA players.No,smarty their is not.

[Volnooga]

Ahem... most of the above transgressions above were under Richt...

[Djshockley3]

Was thr rape charges under richt.No,dude UT is nothing,but alot of criminals.Yes UGA players under Richt has sold their rings and has gotten caught with drugs,but that is it.They also go to church every week with coach richt.Now under donnan,we were bad and undisciplaned i will give you that.Look at jamal lewis I think he is in jail,oh wait he went to UT.

[GATA_Rob01]

Our players were also suspended...which is a word that Fulmer doesn't understand...

No punishment system....UT is trash...Orange is a good color I suppose.

[Djshockley3]

Our players were also suspended...which is a word that Fulmer doesn't understand...

No punishment system....UT is trash...Orange is a good color I suppose.

I agree Fulmer doesn't suspend his players for what 2 games for raping a girl.

[Volnooga]

Yes, the rape was in 02. Under his watch.

Yes, Jamal went to jail, after graduation.. While at UT he had no troubles with the law that is known about..

I'm not trying to say UT players are goodie two shoes and look how dirty UGA players are. What I am saying is that the "he who is without sin cast the first stone" rule should keep UGA fans from making come of the comments they do, but apperantly is something is over 2 years old it doesn't count any more.

[Djshockley3]

Yes, the rape was in 02. Under his watch.

Yes, Jamal went to jail, after graduation.. While at UT he had no troubles with the law that is known about..

I'm not trying to say UT players are goodie two shoes and look how dirty UGA players are. What I am saying is that the "he who is without sin cast the first stone" rule should keep UGA fans from making come of the comments they do, but apperantly is something is over 2 years old it doesn't count any more.

No under richt UGA football is clean,we don't need to buy players we have rodney gardner and we a hour from atlanta and we have a great campus.

[fernandomike]

I agree Fulmer doesn't suspend his players for what 2 games for raping a girl.

I guess I haven't been following my team as well as you guys have. Who, praytell, raped a girl and got a 2 game suspension?

[fernandomike]

Our players were also suspended...which is a word that Fulmer doesn't understand...

No punishment system....UT is trash...Orange is a good color I suppose.

This may be among the 2-3 meanest posts that I have ever seen. You do not reflect well on your beloved university

[Volnooga]

Our players were also suspended...which is a word that Fulmer doesn't understand...

WAY TO GO COACH!!! That's it, your missing 2 weeks of practise buddy! Please see below.


All three players were suspended from their teams two days later pending the investigation, but were reinstated within two weeks.

With all of our Secondary woes this season, Coach Fulmer released 2 of our best D backs from the team Banks and Johnson.

Not suspended, released. as in no more scholarship. Banks was a problem child, but Johnson fired a pistol in the air. Not even his gun... but i understand the saftey issue and Fulmer knows more about his players than I...

Seriously, stay on your high horse. point fingers while ignoring your own problems.

[Djshockley3]

Sorry fernando I just dislike fulmer and i got heated.

[Djshockley3]

WAY TO GO COACH!!! That's it, your missing 2 weeks of practise buddy! Please see below.




With all of our Secondary woes this season, Coach Fulmer released 2 of our best D backs from the team Banks and Johnson.

Not suspended, released. as in no more scholarship. Banks was a problem child, but Johnson fired a pistol in the air. Not even his gun... but i understand the saftey issue and Fulmer knows more about his players than I...

Seriously, stay on your high horse. point fingers while ignoring your own problems.

Man right now we don't have no problems,did u hear about at the UT UGA basketball game the UT kids parents who got kicked out.They got kicked out for being obnoxious,screaming,and yelling.

[Volnooga]

According to them, they moved from their seats to some empty seats closer to the court. Apparently they moved into the highrolling booster section and they cheered for their son and this offended some of the boosters. When they bosters complained to security, acoording to the players parents, they were mistreated and very rudely escorted from the building, but hey, nice change of subject there buddy!

[Djshockley3]

Yeah it was.

[fernandomike]

This stuff is not fun to me. Read my posts. There are teams in the league that I hate, but you would not know it from reading my posts. But, there are people from all schools who are so full of venom that all they want to do is speak negatively about their rivals. Build up your own team, talk about football.
UT is trash is a horrible thing to say. You do not broad brush such a big group of people with that kind of label. Are you telling me that Will Overstreet is trash? Michael Munoz? Bubba Miller? Peyton Manning? There are countless student-athletes who go through UT and graduate and go on to be law-abiding productive citizens. When you use a statement like that you demean them and the rest of us who attended the university based often on nothing more than accusations. If you want to say a particular player, based on what he has been accused or convicted of is trash, then that is a lot more acceptable than what you guys are saying. Me, personally, I do not use such hateful rhetoric. To each his own though, I guess.

[Djshockley3]

This stuff is not fun to me. Read my posts. There are teams in the league that I hate, but you would not know it from reading my posts. But, there are people from all schools who are so full of venom that all they want to do is speak negatively about their rivals. Build up your own team, talk about football.
UT is trash is a horrible thing to say. You do not broad brush such a big group of people with that kind of label. Are you telling me that Will Overstreet is trash? Michael Munoz? Bubba Miller? Peyton Manning? There are countless student-athletes who go through UT and graduate and go on to be law-abiding productive citizens. When you use a statement like that you demean them and the rest of us who attended the university based often on nothing more than accusations. If you want to say a particular player, based on what he has been accused or convicted of is trash, then that is a lot more acceptable than what you guys are saying. Me, personally, I do not use such hateful rhetoric. To each his own though, I guess.

Ok I agree.The UT is trash thing is gettin out of hand.And yes their has been good players at UT and individuals,I liked tee martin.

[autiger1126]

I think you ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ just like to start things.

[GeauxTo]

How could anyone say that Tennessee is trash? Seem pretty outstanding to me.
;)

[dudeman0501]

Threads merged...

I find it funny that people never stop in their quest to make Tennessee look bad.

Will they ever stop? What a crazy question. Of course not. Or, not until Tennessee actually does something and gets caught. Sigh.

[cocky4ever]

Threads merged...

I find it funny that people never stop in their quest to make Tennessee look bad.

Will they ever stop? What a crazy question. Of course not. Or, not until Tennessee actually does something and gets caught. Sigh.
LOL. Yeah, they might stop when UT isnt consistently one of the top teams in the country.

[fernandomike]

How could anyone say that Tennessee is trash? Seem pretty outstanding to me.
;)

Geaux, are you sure that guy is a UT fan? I tend to picture him eating a bowl of gumbo and humming the LSU fight song.