Pathetic and Cruel!

[Neo]

This is the most "cutthroat" and pathetic display I have ever seen. Be thankful USC isn't like this.


Ex-Clemson recruit gets hard lesson

By JON SOLOMON
Staff Writer
CLEMSON — Tony Nelson thought he left behind the anxiety of choosing a college in June 2004.

After performing well at Clemson’s summer football camp, Nelson gave a nonbinding verbal commitment to then-defensive coordinator John Lovett, his main recruiter. “It was a lot of pressure off my shoulders,” Nelson said. “I didn’t have to worry about other schools. I could just focus on my senior year and Clemson. I pictured running down the hill, rubbing the rock, the fans, the big stadium, the whole town going crazy.”

But Nelson will not be included when Clemson announces its 2005 signing class on Wednesday. Instead, he represents a reminder of college football’s cutthroat recruiting game: A name on a commitment list can be here today, gone tomorrow. Nelson’s seven-month commitment to Clemson ended when coach Tommy Bowden pulled the scholarship offer in early January.

Randy Trivers, Nelson’s coach at Northwest High School in Germantown, Md., said Bowden told him that Clemson could not afford another academic risk: Nelson has not qualified. Trivers said Bowden “unfairly” blamed Lovett, who was fired Nov. 30, for misleading him about the academic status of Nelson and previous recruits.

“I ended up speaking with John Lovett, and he was furious,” Trivers said. “Coach Bowden said to me, ‘John Lovett was incompetent and that’s why he’s not here. He routinely made these types of errors, and he misled us with Tony’s academic situation. He led us to believe he’s much further along than he was.’”

According to Trivers, Nelson would qualify under the NCAA sliding scale formula by improving his SAT score 50 points while maintaining his core grade-point average or by increasing the core GPA by 0.125 points. Clemson is not permitted to verify a student’s grades or test scores.

Lovett suggested Clemson is making “a scapegoat” of him and said he was surprised Nelson’s offer was pulled. NCAA rules prohibiting coaches, such as Bowden, from discussing prospects before they sign. On the matter of blaming Lovett, Bowden referred to the statement he issued Dec. 7 after firing Lovett and two other assistants.

“Philosophically, I have to decided to go in another direction,” Bowden’s statement said. So is Nelson. A month before signing day, he started the recruiting process again after having told other schools he was headed to Clemson. “I was upset, but I look at it like things happen for a reason,” Nelson said. “I have a different outlook on their program now. It just goes to show the character of their program. Now that I know, I realize I wouldn’t want to be there.”

‘WIN OR YOU’RE GONE’

Under NCAA guidelines, Clemson acted within its right by pulling Nelson’s scholarship offer. A verbal commitment means nothing in the eyes of college athletics’ governing body.

Until a recruit signs a letter of intent with a university, the player and the school can part ways without penalty. “De-commitments” occur every recruiting season. Most frequently, the player changes his mind.

A year ago, highly rated wide receiver Mike McIntosh, a Clemson commitment for about a month, surprised Tigers’ coaches by signing with Florida. At the time, McIntosh said Clemson coaches were upset but understood it was “part of the game.”

A school pulling an offer from a longtime recruit happens less frequently, according to Jamie Newberg, a recruiting analyst for Fox Sports Net and scout.com. “You hear this a few times every year, and it’s unfortunate,” Newberg said. “Obviously, teams don’t want it out because they get a certain perception out there. I could probably give you examples that it’s happened to every team over the last five years, for whatever reason.”

The biggest reason is obvious: winning.

“Recruiting is cutthroat,” Newberg said. “This is a business. It’s unfortunate you’re dealing with 17-, 18-year-old kids, and they may not understand it at this point. The coach’s job is on the line, and they’ve got to bring in the best talent to win, period. You’ve got to win or you’re gone.” Newberg said the only way to avoid these situations would be for football to create an early signing period.

“Let’s get a signing period in the beginning of August, the beginning of July,” Newberg said. “But we’re not there yet. One day. I think there’s a lot of coaches out there that would be in favor of it.” Nelson says he was drawn to the Tigers because they were the first to offer him a scholarship. He was reportedly the fourth player who committed to Clemson’s 2005 class.

“They were the first to look at me, and I thought that was important,” Nelson said. “I could see they really wanted me, so I liked that.”

Many recruiting analysts consider Nelson a two-star prospect (out of five stars). Listed at 5-foot-10, 190 pounds, he rushed for 1,277 yards and 18 touchdowns as a senior at Northwest, which won the Maryland 3A state championship. Finding a talented running back has been a goal for Bowden, who said in early January that he “lost the edge” running the football in recent seasons. Clemson rushed for an average of 107.5 yards per game in 2004, the fewest since the Tigers’ record book began in 1938.

Twelve days after the Tigers let Nelson go, they received a commitment from Atlanta’s James Davis (6-foot, 207 pounds), who is rated the No. 6 tailback in the country by rivals100.com.

Davis rushed for 2,389 yards and 28 touchdowns as a senior. He has a qualifying GPA and SAT score, according to his uncle. “Obviously, when you have a thoroughbred and you’ve told him he’s the number one running back, it would be easy to maybe pass up on Tony,” said analyst Jeremy Crabtree of rivals100.com. “I saw Tony. He’s a good player. Unfortunately for him, he’s not James Davis.”

Trivers said he figured Clemson was in the running for more prominent tailbacks. “But I told (Bowden), ‘Coach, if you think you made a mistake with Tony, you’ve got to stick with this kid if you have any kind of morals,’” Trivers said. “The people at our school are devastated.”

[Neo]

ACADEMIC QUESTIONS

Nelson said he realized something was wrong when Clemson fired Lovett, who had maintained the strongest relationship with him. Rover/whips coach Thielen Smith visited Nelson in place of Lovett, but Smith soon was fired, too. Graduate assistant Billy Napier made the next trip.

Then for three weeks, there was no contact.

Recruiting coordinator David Blackwell broke Clemson’s decision to Trivers on Jan. 4. A day later, Trivers said Bowden told him Clemson’s compliance office was tightening the number of academic exceptions it would admit for football.

Trivers, a former graduate assistant at Maryland, said colleges routinely accept recruits with worse academic transcripts than Nelson. Trivers said Clemson was aware of Nelson’s situation and never inquired about his latest test scores, SAT prep work or class studies. “And there was no date discussed where Tony had to be at a certain point academically or they move on,” Trivers said.

By combining his highest verbal and math scores, Nelson’s SAT mark is within 50 points of qualifying with four more tests available to take, according to Trivers. He said Nelson’s core GPA comes from legitimate NCAA-required classes. Each school has its admission requirements beyond the NCAA standards. However, Clemson signed six recruits in 2004 that did not qualify under NCAA guidelines and five could be on the team next season. Two enrolled at Clemson this semester and three gave commitments to sign Wednesday.

Trivers said Clemson never offered to place Nelson into a junior college or prep school or allow him to enroll in January 2006.

“There was no real effort to make sure Tony Nelson is going to be a Clemson Tiger ...,” Trivers said. “I’m very, very familiar with the process. For them to come at me with academics, it’s insulting. ... The truth is they got someone else they wanted.”

Trivers said Bowden placed the blame on Lovett, who was fired despite his defense ranking 26th nationally in total yards allowed and 29th in scoring. Trivers said he doubts the scholarship would have been pulled if Lovett had not been fired.

Bowden confirms he spoke with Trivers but would not discuss what was said about Lovett. Lovett said he removed himself from Nelson’s recruitment after being fired and does not know why Clemson pulled the offer.

When asked about Bowden’s allegation that he was misled, Lovett replied: “I don’t know what he said to coach Trivers, so it’s hard to speak to hearsay. If he blames me, I’m not there to rebut so it doesn’t make any difference. I’m just saying, it’s the head coach’s decision who to sign. If you want to know any more, I think you need to call coach Bowden because I’m not recruiting the guy.

“Maybe they’re using me as a scapegoat. Maybe that was the easiest thing to do.”

MOVING ON

Trivers understands his bridge is burned with Clemson. He said Bowden must have realized that, too.

Northwest High is a rising power in the suburbs of Washington, D.C. Fourteen players have received full football scholarships since Trivers started in 1998, including commitments by highly recruited quarterback Ike Whitaker (Virginia Tech) and wide receiver Darren Brownlee (West Virginia) this season.

“As long as Tommy Bowden is coaching anywhere, I’ll never deal with him again,” Trivers said. “He’s a man that I guess tries to portray a certain image, yet I saw his true colors in the situation shine straight through. We had a deal. His word is no good — no good.” Bowden declined to speak about his philosophy on honoring verbal commitments.

“I’ll discuss recruiting philosophy with you later, after recruiting,” Bowden said. “We’re right in the middle of it.”

So is Nelson, again. He says Division I-AA Massachusetts has offered a scholarship, and East Carolina, West Virginia, Temple, Connecticut and James Madison have shown interest. Trivers said he expects Nelson will sign Wednesday with Massachusetts rather than wait for possible Division I-A offers later.

“I realize how the recruiting business is and started looking at it like that,” Nelson said. “I learned, I guess, it’s a business thing. They get what they can get.”

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/sports/colleges/clemson_university/10770505.htm

[SamuraiTater]

To the best of my kowledge, he has yet to qualify anyway. What would be the point of offering a scholarship to a player who has not put himself in position to accept it ??? :confused: :confused: :confused:

If you can't get into the classroom, you can't very well get onto the field. ....Just a hunch. ;)

So you tell me, what did he really lose ???

[Neo]

To the best of my kowledge, he has yet to qualify anyway. What would be the point of offering a scholarship to a player who has not put himself in position to accept it ??? :confused: :confused: :confused:

If you can't get into the classroom, you can't very well get onto the field. ....Just a hunch. ;)

So you tell me, what did he really lose ???

Dude, let's put school loyalites to he side for a moment. They gave this kid a RAW deal period. He could have retaken the SAT and scored an extra 50 pts in his sleep.

As for the GPA, all he needed was an increase of 0.125 points. That can be done with one (1) test. The fact is this kid was Bowden's gold. He gave this poor kid a BS speech about how he wanted him to grow at Clemson yada, yada, yada. The fact of the matter is Bowden got a higher ranked recruit and refuses to honor his commitment to this kid. That's total BS!

This is not the only bridge that Mr. Bowden has burned. Check it out. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

[SamuraiTater]

Dude, let's put school loyalites to he side for a moment.

OK, but it has to be a mutual thing. ;) Your bias is already evident in the following excerpt from your post.

The fact is this kid was Bowden's gold. He gave this poor kid a BS speech about how he wanted him to grow at Clemson yada, yada, yada.

Are you quite certain Tommy Bowden gave this kid a speeach at all ? Others on the internet report it differently. I'll give you a moment to research and clear that one up.

[Neo]

OK, but it has to be a mutual thing. ;) Your bias is already evident in the following excerpt from your post.


It's not evident. It's from a Clemson beat reporter.

I'm just saying how I feel. I feel they screwed this kid good. I don't really care who did it.

[SamuraiTater]

It's not evident. It's from a Clemson beat reporter.

I'm just saying how I feel. I feel they screwed this kid good. I don't really care who did it.

You unequivocally stated that Tommy Bowden himself had used a big speech to sell this kid and offered him a scholarship. I'm here to tell you that the facts as you report them, may not be accurate at all. Others believe that John Lovette was fired for overstepping the bounds of his authority in extending scholarships. Even the news article you cite, recognizes Lovette as the only guy in contact with the kid at the time of his offer.

[WayzUp]

Just a question for the sake of the discussion because I was never recruited coming out of high school so I'm not sure.

I assume recruiting can be more or less organized chaos sometimes but I find it hard to believe that there can be a scholarship offer made to a kid without the Head Coach having met him first and checked into the recruit himself. I mean, it is their job right?

All bias aside and not pointing fingers, a kid graduating high school just got taught a life lesson that will stay with him the rest of his life. Whoever is to blame for this, and there is definitely blame to be placed in addition to Lovett you can be sure, should be taking a real hard look at their personal priorities and how their actions today could affect the entire life of an 18 year old kid.

[SamuraiTater]

I assume recruiting can be more or less organized chaos sometimes but I find it hard to believe that there can be a scholarship offer made to a kid without the Head Coach having met him first and checked into the recruit himself. I mean, it is their job right?

That's what I would think, as well. As I stated earlier, there is speculation from the Tiger world that Lovette was fired for offering scholarships without the head coach's approval. Delo served up the assertation that Bowden personally had gone out his way to offer the kid (a claim that to this point appears completely baseless).

So at what point is the prospective athlete responsible to uphold his end of the arrangement ? Obviously, he must qualify in order to accept the scholarship. One can debate all day about a kids potential to eventually qualify, but academic institutions have a responsibility to themselves as well. C'mon, it's the week before national signing day and time for a reality check. ....If the kid hasn't qualified by this point..... :rolleyes: Are college football programs really supposed to stand by him, forsaking all others on the outside chance he may get in at some point down the road ???

Lets not forget about the NCAA's latest ruling, either.

You tell me what's fair.

[JaGuArApRiL]

I will tell you what's fair...I think if you are going to take a verbal acceptance from an athlete..You should get their background information ASAP and look into their grades, SAT's, etc. You shouldn’t wait until January when an athlete most likely will have NO offers to move onto another University. If he gave his verbal commitment..action should have been taken so that if something were to come up like his grades, SAT's, whatever it could be fixed promptly. What if he would have had time to get it together before school started? Where is he left now? I think if colleges started treating Athletes like People and Students instead of Meal Tickets and Name Boosters..College Sports would go a lot farther. That's what I think is fair...If you don't ...Well if we all felt the same way..I wouldn't be on this site.

[JaGuArApRiL]

Oh and just to add to my point...Here are sections from the article...

"Trivers, a former graduate assistant at Maryland, said colleges routinely accept recruits with worse academic transcripts than Nelson. Trivers said Clemson was aware of Nelson’s situation and never inquired about his latest test scores, SAT prep work or class studies."

and

"Nelson says he was drawn to the Tigers because they were the first to offer him a scholarship. He was reportedly the fourth player who committed to Clemson’s 2005 class.

“They were the first to look at me, and I thought that was important,” Nelson said. “I could see they really wanted me, so I liked that.”


oh and this is real Professional...

Twelve days after the Tigers let Nelson go, they received a commitment from Atlanta’s James Davis (6-foot, 207 pounds), who is rated the No. 6 tailback in the country by rivals100.com.

Davis rushed for 2,389 yards and 28 touchdowns as a senior. He has a qualifying GPA and SAT score, according to his uncle.
ACCORDING TO HIS UNCLE..UH WHAT ABOUT CHECKING BACKGROUNDS? HOPE THIS ONE BITES IN THEM IN THE YA KNOW WHAT..

“Obviously, when you have a thoroughbred and you’ve told him he’s the number one running back, it would be easy to maybe pass up on Tony,” said analyst Jeremy Crabtree of rivals100.com. “I saw Tony. He’s a good player. Unfortunately for him, he’s not James Davis.”

[JaGuArApRiL]

I mean I found that all a little too interesting.....Come on regardless of affiliation to whichever team you love...You know this Kid got the big Screw...I hope he moves onto something worthy of his time and Blows people out of the water! Good Luck Young Man

[Neo]

I mean I found that all a little too interesting.....Come on regardless of affiliation to whichever team you love...You know this Kid got the big Screw...I hope he moves onto something worthy of his time and Blows people out of the water! Good Luck Young Man

Oh I agree...there is no way in hell that the DC offered this guy a scolly without the HC's approval. He took this kids commitment and then crapped on it. I didn't see the HC (Bowden) pulling the prospect's offer UNTIL they signed the other kid. That's why I don't buy Bowden's excuse for pulling the kid's scolly. Coincidence? No freakin way!

This kid got "Cutcliffed" plain and simple. :mad:

[SamuraiTater]

Oh I agree...there is no way in hell that the DC offered this guy a scolly without the HC's approval. He took this kids commitment and then crapped on it. I didn't see the HC (Bowden) pulling the prospect's offer UNTIL they signed the other kid. That's why I don't buy Bowden's excuse for pulling the kid's scolly. Coincidence? No freakin way!

This kid got "Cutcliffed" plain and simple. :mad:

There is still no proof (or even evidence to suggest it) whatsoever of your claim that Bowden personally sold him and offered the scholarship. You made that up, plain and simple. As for your claim there is no way a DC would offer without a HC's approval, well as you put it earlier, "Where there's smoke......" :p

I will agree with Jaguar in that if there are questions regarding a prospective recruit's status, they should be addressed in the beginning. Terms should be stated from the outset to include a drop dead date for the athlete to get it together academically or risk being dropped like a hot rock.

[Neo]

The question still stands......


I didn't see the HC (Bowden) pulling the prospect's offer UNTIL they signed the other kid.

This kid got "Cutcliffed" plain and simple. :mad:

[SamuraiTater]

So does this one:

Are you quite certain Tommy Bowden gave this kid a speeach at all ?

:p :p :p

[SamuraiTater]

An opinion from another message board: <LINK> (http://allsportstalk.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=quote&p=214201)



3) why was this kid offered in the first place? I am not sure, but he doesn't sound like division 1 material and definetly not above the ECU type level.

4) IF Bowden is saying bad things about Lovett (and notice I said "IF"), then he is dead wrong for that. Do you thin he really said he was "incompetent"?




#3) The main reason Lovett was fired was for accepting verbal pledges from kids WITHOUT the OK from the head coach and the recruiting coordinators. Lovett basically offered the kid on his own, even though Clemson had at least 3 other RB's ranked higher on their recruiting board (both Davis kids and Jamison). Bowden would not have ok'd this, but chose to stick with Nelson because Lovett had said he was "close" to qualifying. Once Lovett was fired and the truth was known about how "close" Nelson actually was (~200 pts), TB withdrew the scholarship. It speaks miles about how good this kid actually was when we were his only Div-1A offer. Lovett was not a good evaluator of talent and obviously didnt know how to read a transcript.

#4) I doubt Bowden used those exact words. That whole story is based on heresay from that coach, so who's to say what is true and what isn't.

[SamuraiTater]

You're up. ;)

[cocky4ever]

This is a BOWDEN we're talking about here. You cant be too surprised.

[Neo]

So does this one:



:p :p :p

Well...I am basing that on the fact that EVERY head coach meets his prospects at least once and always give speeches on why you should come to their school.

[SamuraiTater]

Well...I am basing that on the fact that EVERY head coach meets his prospects at least once and always give speeches on why you should come to their school.

Unfortunately that's hardly a fact at all. Bobby Bowden doesn't do an in-home with every recruit. Lou Holtz didn't do an in-home with every recruit. Neither did Joe Pa, Bo Schembechler or a host of others.

[Neo]

I saw this and it sums up my feelings exactly!

I was just pointing out that the sleazy manner in which Coach Bowden handled this was the point of the discussion. The kid was offered in June of last year. The offer was pulled just a matter of days before signing date, after the kid had turned down offers from other schools. Coach Bowden had from June to December to check out the kid's status for himself and withdraw the offer in plenty of time for the kid to accept another offer. But he waited until it was too late for the player to do anything else for himself, then blamed the whole sordid mess on an assistant coach, whom he referred to as "incompetent."

We only know this happened at Clemson through Nelson's high school coach, with whom Bowden did discuss the offer being pulled. Trivers, the high scool coach, also talked to John Lovett, the "imcompetent" coach whom Bowden blamed it all on.

The State quoted Bowden as saying, when asked about blaming Lovett, " ...as I stated earlier, I have decided to go in another direction."
The young man in question only needs 50 points on the SAT with 4 more opportunities to take it, or 0.125 on his core GPA. Nelson will almost certainly do both. As the article points out, Clemson signed 6 non-qualifiers last year and probably will sign 5 this year. This whole thing was probably because the Tigers got a commitment from J. Davis and no longer wanted Nelson. The way Bowden handled it was sleazy. Period.

[cocky4ever]

I saw this and it sums up my feelings exactly!

I was just pointing out that the sleazy manner in which Coach Bowden handled this was the point of the discussion. The kid was offered in June of last year. The offer was pulled just a matter of days before signing date, after the kid had turned down offers from other schools. Coach Bowden had from June to December to check out the kid's status for himself and withdraw the offer in plenty of time for the kid to accept another offer. But he waited until it was too late for the player to do anything else for himself, then blamed the whole sordid mess on an assistant coach, whom he referred to as "incompetent."

We only know this happened at Clemson through Nelson's high school coach, with whom Bowden did discuss the offer being pulled. Trivers, the high scool coach, also talked to John Lovett, the "imcompetent" coach whom Bowden blamed it all on.

The State quoted Bowden as saying, when asked about blaming Lovett, " ...as I stated earlier, I have decided to go in another direction."
The young man in question only needs 50 points on the SAT with 4 more opportunities to take it, or 0.125 on his core GPA. Nelson will almost certainly do both. As the article points out, Clemson signed 6 non-qualifiers last year and probably will sign 5 this year. This whole thing was probably because the Tigers got a commitment from J. Davis and no longer wanted Nelson. The way Bowden handled it was sleazy. Period.
Can't really argue that.

[SPURED]

dude commited 7 months ago. and they release him 12 days before Signing day! that is soo messed up. they really screwed this kid. and shattered his dreams of playing football. i hope he gets to play somewhere else that really WANTS him

[GRASSHOPPER]

This Sounds Alot Like The Way He Treats His Assistant Coaches!

[Neo]

dude commited 7 months ago. and they release him 12 days before Signing day! that is soo messed up. they really screwed this kid. and shattered his dreams of playing football. i hope he gets to play somewhere else that really WANTS him


Not at all Spured! He didn't get screwed!

He got "Cutcliffed". :D

[ColonelKurtz]

One can see the threads on recruiting here and elsewhere and read about the fans relating to the kids who will represent them on the Field of Honor. You read about the last minute decisions, the drama like went on with Smith & his Mom, a switch by a guy or two. Then you read something like this story and if you're anything like me, you become angry. I'd be curious how the rest of you react to this:

mash here (http://www.gazette.net/200505/sports/updates/257975-1.html)

[GeauxTo]

One can see the threads on recruiting here and elsewhere and read about the fans relating to the kids who will represent them on the Field of Honor. You read about the last minute decisions, the drama like went on with Smith & his Mom, a switch by a guy or two. Then you read something like this story and if you're anything like me, you become angry. I'd be curious how the rest of you react to this:

mash here (http://www.gazette.net/200505/sports/updates/257975-1.html)

Yes, disgusting. Coaches should be models of honesty to these kids rather than examples of trickery and lack of trust.
;)

[Neo]

If yall like that, go see what our Clemson posters had to say about this story in the "South Carolina Sports" section. The thread is called "Pathetic and Cruel!".

[jneesy]

clemson did not want him going to any of their competition so they screwed him late forcing him to take a 1AA ride when he could easily gotten into a div 1 school . this will be used against them for years in recruiting .........never did like them bowdens

[Cockrocker]

Just proves the point that "Tammy" really is as sleazy as he looks!

[RW13]

You know, rivalry aside I expected more out of Tommy Bowden, The last bit of respect I had for him I just lost, terrible, two-face, and hypocrytical, unfortunately typical for Clemson and their ethical standards, I wish North Carolina would annex them b/c they are a shame for the state of South Carolina. They really are a depiction of evil.....

[JerryBeeds]

Amen to that!

[Neo]

This is Clemson Football - from Charlotte Observer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clemson football: Big myth

What did this university do to earn title 'football school?'
by Gregg Doyel

The biggest myth in college football is Clemson, and not because N.C. State took a switch to the Tigers' backsides Thursday, or even because Clemson might only break even this season.

Why is Clemson a "football school," anyway? Because the basketball is so bad? It takes more than a glorious decade under the regime of two cheaters -- the wobbly stilts holding up the mirage of Clemson's palace.

Clemson did win a national championship, but that was 21 years ago, thanks to recruiting violations committed by Charley Pell and his replacement, Danny Ford.

Since then, Brigham Young and Georgia Tech have won titles, too. Are they football schools? Overall, Minnesota has four national titles, Army two, and even Maryland has one.

And they didn't cheat.

This is a football school? Since 1959, Clemson hadn't won more than six games until Pell arrived in 1977 and went 8-3-1.

This is a football school? Ford averaged 8.7 victories from 1979 through '89, a regime kick-started by Pell's NCAA violations. After a lull in 1984 and '85 when Clemson went 7-4 and 6-6, Ford got the Tigers over the hump thanks to new violations that led to his ouster in 1989 -- after three straight ill-begotten 10-2 seasons.

This is a football school? Ford's replacement, Ken Hatfield, had three good seasons, but they were aided by Ford's tainted stockpile of talent. Since Hatfield left in 1993, Clemson has gone 57-46 under Tommy West and Tommy Bowden.

Old-time Clemson fans cling to the legend of Frank Howard like my 4-year-old clings to his dingy, shredded blanket.

Let's look at the legend of Frank Howard. He coached in 1940-69, and he coached well. He won 58 percent of his games, which means he won more than he lost, but he didn't win as much as Georgia Tech's George O'Leary (61.2 percent), Maryland's Jerry Claiborne (67.1) or Bobby Ross (66.9), N.C. State's Dick Sheridan (63.7), Virginia's George Welsh (60. or North Carolina's Mack Brown (59.9).

Dadgum, Howard didn't even win as often as Bowden -- Tommy, not Bobby -- who has won 59.1 percent of his games in three-plus seasons at Clemson.

Still, Tigers fans are ready to look for a new coach because this is Clemson, and Clemson football is a winner, and they will simply not stand for a coach who might just break even this season.

You'd think Clemson fans would be used to it by now. The Tigers have finished .500 or worse 18 times in the past 49 years. There would have been more, no doubt, but the 15 years from 1977 through '91 were bloated by the violations of Pell and Ford.

This is a football school? Well, maybe it is. If you ask some Clemson fans to name their dream coach, they hock up a familiar name.

Danny Ford.

Some myths never die.

[Yazzer]

Amen to your post!!!---I live in the upstate of SC and find myself completely surrounded by this Clemson mentality. Of course, since I am an avid Carolina supporter, I am immediately bombarded by the "CU owns you" and "you are jealous of Tiger success" ramblings which , as the article so elequently points out, has no supportive basis. True, Carolina has experienced limited success lately against Cowtown, but to be quite honest, it has been due to the fact that we have placed a mediocre product on the playing field. The fact that we have not been winning has nothing to do with the "Football Prowess" so mistakenly claimed by those wearing orange with few front teeth. When will the "Orange Nation" come to their senses and realize that CU football is mediocre at best and a middle to bottom end ACC football product. At least I, along with the countless hoards of Gamecock fans, have promise in the future with the arrival of Air Spurrier. Those poor, misguided orange bags of hot air have only the prospect of a 5th to 7th place finish.

[GRASSHOPPER]

This is Clemson Football - from Charlotte Observer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clemson football: Big myth

What did this university do to earn title 'football school?'
by Gregg Doyel

The biggest myth in college football is Clemson, and not because N.C. State took a switch to the Tigers' backsides Thursday, or even because Clemson might only break even this season.

Why is Clemson a "football school," anyway? Because the basketball is so bad? It takes more than a glorious decade under the regime of two cheaters -- the wobbly stilts holding up the mirage of Clemson's palace.

Clemson did win a national championship, but that was 21 years ago, thanks to recruiting violations committed by Charley Pell and his replacement, Danny Ford.

Since then, Brigham Young and Georgia Tech have won titles, too. Are they football schools? Overall, Minnesota has four national titles, Army two, and even Maryland has one.

And they didn't cheat.

This is a football school? Since 1959, Clemson hadn't won more than six games until Pell arrived in 1977 and went 8-3-1.

This is a football school? Ford averaged 8.7 victories from 1979 through '89, a regime kick-started by Pell's NCAA violations. After a lull in 1984 and '85 when Clemson went 7-4 and 6-6, Ford got the Tigers over the hump thanks to new violations that led to his ouster in 1989 -- after three straight ill-begotten 10-2 seasons.

This is a football school? Ford's replacement, Ken Hatfield, had three good seasons, but they were aided by Ford's tainted stockpile of talent. Since Hatfield left in 1993, Clemson has gone 57-46 under Tommy West and Tommy Bowden.

Old-time Clemson fans cling to the legend of Frank Howard like my 4-year-old clings to his dingy, shredded blanket.

Let's look at the legend of Frank Howard. He coached in 1940-69, and he coached well. He won 58 percent of his games, which means he won more than he lost, but he didn't win as much as Georgia Tech's George O'Leary (61.2 percent), Maryland's Jerry Claiborne (67.1) or Bobby Ross (66.9), N.C. State's Dick Sheridan (63.7), Virginia's George Welsh (60. or North Carolina's Mack Brown (59.9).

Dadgum, Howard didn't even win as often as Bowden -- Tommy, not Bobby -- who has won 59.1 percent of his games in three-plus seasons at Clemson.

Still, Tigers fans are ready to look for a new coach because this is Clemson, and Clemson football is a winner, and they will simply not stand for a coach who might just break even this season.

You'd think Clemson fans would be used to it by now. The Tigers have finished .500 or worse 18 times in the past 49 years. There would have been more, no doubt, but the 15 years from 1977 through '91 were bloated by the violations of Pell and Ford.

This is a football school? Well, maybe it is. If you ask some Clemson fans to name their dream coach, they hock up a familiar name.

Danny Ford.

Some myths never die.GREAT POST BUT COMING FROM AN SC FAN IT SOUNDS LIKE SOUR GRAPES. THEY STILL KICK OUR A**** EVERY YEAR!

[OmahaBound]

If someone knows how to contact SamuraiTater they should email him the story that Djshockley posted earlier. It answered every question he had for you Neo, and proved how much of an a** Tommy Bowden really is. Just reading Samurai try to give Bowden an out was making my blood pressure skyrocket until I remembered he's a Clemson fan on an SEC board so of course he's going to defend them at all costs. I don't doubt that at some time USC has done a similar thing to a kid and it was just as disgusting and wrong if and when we did it. I just hope if we ever did it that it was long before the Holtz or even Brad Scott days.

My best friend in high school went to Clemson and up until their winning streak late 2003 even he talked about how much he disliked Tommy as a person (winning changes everything though, now doesn't it).

I will take great joy in sending the newest article that Neo found to all the Clemson fans I know. Actually, I believe I will wait until the trash talk starts. Sure, their history is still more impressive than ours, but history is just that.....history. The future is bright for the Gamecocks. I would be surprised if 100 years from now Carolina has not evened the head-to-head record or at least brought it much closer to .500.

[Neo]

GREAT POST BUT COMING FROM AN SC FAN IT SOUNDS LIKE SOUR GRAPES. THEY STILL KICK OUR A**** EVERY YEAR!

Not trying to sound like "sour grapes". It's just that this guy wrote this article a while ago and he wanted to touch the "Clemson is a football school" notion.

[GRASSHOPPER]

Not trying to sound like "sour grapes". It's just that this guy wrote this article a while ago and he wanted to touch the "Clemson is a football school" notion.WE.VE RUN OUT OF BULLETS AND NOW WERE JUST GONNA THROW THE GUN AT EM!

[Neo]

WE.VE RUN OUT OF BULLETS AND NOW WERE JUST GONNA THROW THE GUN AT EM!

I'm not throwing the gun at them.

Heaven forbid that I find a nice and informative article and try to share it with everyone for information purposes.

[GRASSHOPPER]

If someone knows how to contact SamuraiTater they should email him the story that Djshockley posted earlier. It answered every question he had for you Neo, and proved how much of an a** Tommy Bowden really is. Just reading Samurai try to give Bowden an out was making my blood pressure skyrocket until I remembered he's a Clemson fan on an SEC board so of course he's going to defend them at all costs. I don't doubt that at some time USC has done a similar thing to a kid and it was just as disgusting and wrong if and when we did it. I just hope if we ever did it that it was long before the Holtz or even Brad Scott days.

My best friend in high school went to Clemson and up until their winning streak late 2003 even he talked about how much he disliked Tommy as a person (winning changes everything though, now doesn't it).

I will take great joy in sending the newest article that Neo found to all the Clemson fans I know. Actually, I believe I will wait until the trash talk starts. Sure, their history is still more impressive than ours, but history is just that.....history. The future is bright for the Gamecocks. I would be surprised if 100 years from now Carolina has not evened the head-to-head record or at least brought it much closer to .500.I HAVE A BROTHER IN LAW THAT HAS A BOX IN CLEMSON YOU KNOW BIG BACKER KIND OF GUY BLEEDS ORANGE AND DURING CLEMSON LITTLE LOSING STREAK YEAR BEFORE LAST ALL I HEARD WAS WHAT AN A** BOWDEN WAS IT DID'NT MATTER IF HE WON THE BALENCE OF HIS GAMES HE WAS STILL GONE BECAUSE ALUM DID'NT LIKE HIM AND HE DID'NT SMOOZE W/ THE ALUM. WELL A COUPLE WINS LATER AND THEY MAY RENAME THE STADIUM AFTER HIM!

[GRASSHOPPER]

I'm not throwing the gun at them.

Heaven forbid that I find a nice and informative article and try to share it with everyone for information purposes.RELAX DELO JUST MESSING W/ YA A BIT. DON'T BE SO SENSITIVE I HATE THEM TOO!

[Neo]

RELAX DELO JUST MESSING W/ YA A BIT. DON'T BE SO SENSITIVE I HATE THEM TOO!

I know... ;)

I'm just picking back at ya like a scab! :D

[USC66]

Del, I remember this article well. As I recall, it caused quite a stir with the tigger fans. I guess it really hit hard to stare the reality of it squarely in the face. Quite a few tigger fans I know weren't as puffed up about their football after that article.

[GTmorris1970]

Dude, let's put school loyalites to he side for a moment. They gave this kid a RAW deal period. He could have retaken the SAT and scored an extra 50 pts in his sleep.

As for the GPA, all he needed was an increase of 0.125 points. That can be done with one (1) test. The fact is this kid was Bowden's gold. He gave this poor kid a BS speech about how he wanted him to grow at Clemson yada, yada, yada. The fact of the matter is Bowden got a higher ranked recruit and refuses to honor his commitment to this kid. That's total BS!

This is not the only bridge that Mr. Bowden has burned. Check it out. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Just another example of the morals and character of that school and football program. And they wonder why they never go further. :rolleyes: