So lets see here........

[Volmeister]

One of the Admins posts an unfounded rumor as the gospel truth, and when he is challenged, you call it a "personal attack" and lock the thread? What a joke.

[dudeman0501]

One of the Admins posts an unfounded rumor as the gospel truth, and when he is challenged, you call it a "personal attack" and lock the thread? What a joke.

DeLorean never said that it is the absoulte, concreate truth. It's nothing but allegations and rumors at this point.

And yes, your original post was a personal attack.

[Volmeister]

I called BS on his story, something as a Vol fan you should have done. I scanned through the 100 post long thread, I must have missed the one where you challenged him on his unsubstantiated story.

[GTmorris1970]

I called BS on his story, something as a Vol fan you should have done. I scanned through the 100 post long thread, I must have missed the one where you challenged him on his unsubstantiated story.

His info. has always been accurate. He is the reason I joined this site. Before anyone calls his story BS, lets wait and see what happens, shall we? :)

[dudeman0501]

I called BS on his story, something as a Vol fan you should have done. I scanned through the 100 post long thread, I must have missed the one where you challenged him on his unsubstantiated story.

I have no reason to challenge it. Why should I?

[Volmeister]

His info came from a post he read on Volquest , the post was put there by a rival fan. I would think an admin would be a little more responsible about the things he posts. To make matters worse, he has gone to other message boards and linked to this unsubstantiated BS.

[Neo]

His info came from a post he read on Volquest , the post was put there by a rival fan. I would think an admin would be a little more responsible about the things he posts. To make matters worse, he has gone to other message boards and linked to this unsubstantiated BS.

I hate to tell you this Volmeister, I heard this with my own ears on ESPN Radio here in Charlotte. What's bad is if I'm so totally wrong about this, why are so many people up in arms about it? Could it be that some people are scared it's true? :confused:

As I've stated before, there are "accusations" of wrongdoing. Nothing has been proven yet and I posted that in the original post.

[Volmeister]

I have no reason to challenge it. Why should I?

You allow a 100 post thread trashing Fulmer to go unchallenged? He also put it on the front page. Do you believe the story? I bet if I posted a BS rumor about Spurrier, he would challenge it.

[dudeman0501]

You allow a 100 post thread trashing Fulmer to go unchallenged? He also put it on the front page. Do you believe the story? I bet if I posted a BS rumor about Spurrier, he would challenge it.

Once again, tell me why I should challenge it? Is it because I'm a Vol fan?

Yes, I believe that the story. I beleive that it's a rumor, and right now, that's all it is.

[Neo]

You allow a 100 post thread trashing Fulmer to go unchallenged? He also put it on the front page. Do you believe the story? I bet if I posted a BS rumor about Spurrier, he would challenge it.

You don't know me. You don't know anything about me. I consider myself fair and impartial because I report on ALL SEC schools equally.

[Volmeister]

Report? Right. In the long thread below, the rumor was brought to your attention by a Gator fan, he linked a post at Volquest for you. That was the first you had heard of iit. Now you are telling me you heard it on the radio? Tell me something, if I hear a rumor that smears Spurrier, is it ok to post it here?

[Neo]

Report? Right. In the long thread below, the rumor was brought to your attention by a Gator fan, he linked a post at Volquest for you. That was the first you had heard of iit. Now you are telling me you heard it on the radio? Tell me something, if I hear a rumor that smears Spurrier, is it ok to post it here?

I think you have it backwards. Gator asked me if I heard about it. I then told him what I knew and then Quack posted a link on what he found.

If it's a rumor, I'm not going to get all worked up. I may say that I don't believe it and leave it at that.

[Volmeister]

Once again, tell me why I should challenge it? Is it because I'm a Vol fan?


I think most Vol fans would. This place won't be very successful if you guys continue to publish unsubstatiated smear jobs on your front page.

[Volmeister]

I think you have it backwards. Gator asked me if I heard about it. I then told him what I knew and then Quack posted a link on what he found.

The source of the story is a flame by a rival poster on a Vol board. You said you knew about street agents, you clearly hadn't heard it connected to Phillip Fulmer.

[Neo]

The source of the story is a flame by a rival poster on a Vol board. You said you knew about street agents, you clearly hadn't heard it connected to Phillip Fulmer.

Seems to be some trouble with UT and some possible recruiting violations. Perhaps Del can post some info as it becomes more available....


Are you referring to the "Street Recruiting"?

You tell us.....what have you heard?


I haven't heard much on this but, the thing I have heard about is a "guy" that has a reputation for "steering" recruits illegally to a certain school for a nominal fee. I cannot confirm any of this as of now, but if I think what I think you're thinking Gator, we are on the same page. :)

I think those statements speak for themselves. :)

[dudeman0501]

I think most Vol fans would. This place won't be very successful if you guys continue to publish unsubstatiated smear jobs on your front page.

I don't lose my cool over rumors. You need to understand this: it's a rumor.

The whole situation would be different if it had been posted as fact. But it wasn't.

[Volmeister]

You left out one quote there Mr fair and balanced.

I wonder if you could super-impose a Tennessee helmet on that Cheaties box in your signature.

[Neo]

You left out one quote there Mr fair and balanced.

It was a JOKE! :D Ya know?? Hardy har har?

[Volmeister]

The place is a joke, I'm out of here.

[Cocky2001]

The place is a joke, I'm out of here.This site just got more reputable.

[GatorNation]

You allow a 100 post thread trashing Fulmer to go unchallenged? He also put it on the front page. Do you believe the story? I bet if I posted a BS rumor about Spurrier, he would challenge it.

You guys are something. Really. You're all over Del when there have been numerous posters who have read and heard independent reports outside of the SEC Talk threads. I did. QuackAttack did. Other posters have, too. What's the problem? You vol fans are upset...fine. Understandable. But nobody is saying these things are definite fact....right now, they're rumors--rumors with some legs, it seems, but still rumors. As the facts develop, I'm sure we'll find out more details. Calm down.

[Neo]

You guys are something. Really. You're all over Del when there have been numerous posters who have read and heard independent reports outside of the SEC Talk threads. I did. QuackAttack did. Other posters have, too. What's the problem? You vol fans are upset...fine. Understandable. But nobody is saying these things are definite fact....right now, they're rumors--rumors with some legs, it seems, but still rumors. As the facts develop, I'm sure we'll find out more details. Calm down.

That's what Dudeman and I have been saying. :)

[allaboutavol]

Ok I guess its time for me to talk, I was wondering when things would start to get tense. Volmeister, friend, I am a Vol fan, die hard, tried and true, and I have faught tooth and nail for Fulmer's reputation all season here. I have waded through tons of "Phat Phil" comments, and endless bids on how horrible it was that he did Bama wrong. I hate to hear anything negative about Phil, but I can assure you of one thing, Del knows his stuff, he is not going to post something that he can't back, he is not going to post something that is untrue, hence the word "rumor" being used several times on this thread. I am begging you to quit while you are ahead, I really do not want people to think that all Vol fans are as irrational as you are being right now. Take a breather man, lets wait and see what happens. It will break my heart if Phil is guilty of any kind of wrong doing, but if he is, that is something we have to deal with, ranting and raving about it won't change the outcome. I will always be a Vol fan, never question that, I just hope that I can remain a Fulmer fan too.

[Neo]

Ok I guess its time for me to talk, I was wondering when things would start to get tense. Volmeister, friend, I am a Vol fan, die hard, tried and true, and I have faught tooth and nail for Fulmer's reputation all season here. I have waded through tons of "Phat Phil" comments, and endless bids on how horrible it was that he did Bama wrong. I hate to hear anything negative about Phil, but I can assure you of one thing, Del knows his stuff, he is not going to post something that he can't back, he is not going to post something that is untrue, hence the word "rumor" being used several times on this thread. I am begging you to quit while you are ahead, I really do not want people to think that all Vol fans are as irrational as you are being right now. Take a breather man, lets wait and see what happens. It will break my heart if Phil is guilty of any kind of wrong doing, but if he is, that is something we have to deal with, ranting and raving about it won't change the outcome. I will always be a Vol fan, never question that, I just hope that I can remain a Fulmer fan too.


TY ALL! :)

I would never intentionally assassinate someone's character like that. I am just posting what I and about 10 others heard yesterday.

[allaboutavol]

TY ALL! :)

I would never intentionally assassinate someone's character like that. I am just posting what I and about 10 others heard yesterday.

I gotcha back Del! ;)

[carolinavol]

I have checked into this as much as I could over the last couple of days, and have not found anything within the allegations that directly relate to UT committing an infraction. From what I understand, is that a person whom doesnt have a favorable relationship with UM and it's fanbase, has steered a former player and his friends towards UT. I have not seen anything at all, that documents that UT has done anything whatsoever to hold undue influence over the former coach (streetagent). If this "streetagent" has steered a former player, whom he has had an ongoing relationship with, and the friends of said player, then I really do not see how that can in anyway implicate UT in dirty recruiting unless UT can be proven to have exercised some type of undue influence (money, etc) with that 'streetagent', and I have yet to see anything along those lines documented.
The notion that Phil Fulmer would go into another state where UT traditionally does not recruit and utilize a shady streetagent to buy off players all the while knowing he is under such a microscope from Alabama, simply does not add up. Many have called Fulmer fat, a cheater, etc. but I have yet to see someone credibly accuse the man of being stupid. It seems to me that a much more reasonable explanation is that this 'streetagent' is doing everything he can to get in good with blue chip athletes out of FL in order to be there when the NFL starts calling. Further, this streetagent has a bad relationship w/ Miami already, and he probably sees a loaded team in knoxville with one glaring hole in it's secondary, and realizes that 'his kids' have the best opportunity to start, make a name, and get drafted ($$) by going to UT and starting early, rather than going to UM, FSU, or UF and competing for playing time w/ just as talented athletes.
Delorean, and others, if I have listed anything in here that is factually inaccurate/or leaves something that has been documented out, please reply. I think any VOL fan with the best interest of their program should have serious problems with Antron Wright becoming so involved with our recruits, but I think the assumption the only interest this guy has in doing so is that UT is paying him, is not the only or the best explanation for this. Delorean, and others, please continue to keep us all posted of anything you hear. Sorry about the length, cut it down as much as i could.

[Neo]

One of the things that I wonder is that does anyone really think this guy is just going to go all over and direct kids to certain universities without compensation?

Would you wash your neighbors car just out of the blue without compensation? Be honest! LOL!

Would you rent out one of your houses to a total stranger for free?

See what I'm getting at? I honestly hope there's nothing to this. I hope I'll be able to write a story about the "rumors" being false. Even though I'm not a Tennessee fan, anytime there are violations the ENTIRE SEC looks bad. My team included.

[Neo]

Don't get me wrong Carolina, this is bigger than Tennessee if it ends up being true. I've heard a number of schools are involved in this. By that reasoning, one could assume that this gentleman was directing kids to the schools that paid the most.

[carolinavol]

It still just makes no sense to me that Phil Fulmer or anyone with any sense that is associated w/ UT would be buying players. The fact that this streetagent clearly has a motive is what is driving this story, but Fulmer also has a motive to stay clean as a whistle bc he has Gallion and his ilk in Bama using all kinds of tactics to uncover anything they can to nail UT. The streetagent was speculated to have been a major player in the Bobby Washington/Umiami and subsequent move to NCSU, and apparently thats where the bad blood between streetagent/um thus he is steering kids out of Coral Gables. The streetagent I believe as said earlier has other attributable selfish motives than some UT and NCSU people paying him off, and Fulmer has a very clear self interested motive to stay clean right now. Orange covered glasses on and all, let me know if im in error on this, and keep us up to date on anything new.

[QuackAttackVan]

It was a JOKE! :D Ya know?? Hardy har har?

According to you a joke is not a joke unless both sides consider it one.

Remember?
:rolleyes:

[Neo]

According to you a joke is not a joke unless both sides consider it one.

Remember?
:rolleyes:

That joke was not aimed directly at someone specific. :rolleyes:

[QuackAttackVan]

LOL, whatever helps you sleep better at night

[rabidcock]

It still just makes no sense to me that Phil Fulmer or anyone with any sense that is associated w/ UT would be buying players. The fact that this streetagent clearly has a motive is what is driving this story, but Fulmer also has a motive to stay clean as a whistle bc he has Gallion and his ilk in Bama using all kinds of tactics to uncover anything they can to nail UT. The streetagent was speculated to have been a major player in the Bobby Washington/Umiami and subsequent move to NCSU, and apparently thats where the bad blood between streetagent/um thus he is steering kids out of Coral Gables. The streetagent I believe as said earlier has other attributable selfish motives than some UT and NCSU people paying him off, and Fulmer has a very clear self interested motive to stay clean right now. Orange covered glasses on and all, let me know if im in error on this, and keep us up to date on anything new.

I agree; it would make no sense at all, with the mystique Tennessee football has and the steady influx of talent already flowing into the coffers.

I think, unlike other boards I have visited but would not deign to offer a post at, that we here at SEC Talk are overwhelmingly gentlemen. And while we may vehemenently discuss such matters on this podium, we could hopefully agree that we would not (and should not) discuss this unsubstantiated rumor outside the confines of our forum.

None of us here would like to see, nor would we gain anything of import from, the downfall of Volunteer football. It would be too tragic to comprehend.

[GatorNation]

I have checked into this as much as I could over the last couple of days, and have not found anything within the allegations that directly relate to UT committing an infraction. From what I understand, is that a person whom doesnt have a favorable relationship with UM and it's fanbase, has steered a former player and his friends towards UT. I have not seen anything at all, that documents that UT has done anything whatsoever to hold undue influence over the former coach (streetagent). If this "streetagent" has steered a former player, whom he has had an ongoing relationship with, and the friends of said player, then I really do not see how that can in anyway implicate UT in dirty recruiting unless UT can be proven to have exercised some type of undue influence (money, etc) with that 'streetagent', and I have yet to see anything along those lines documented.

The notion that Phil Fulmer would go into another state where UT traditionally does not recruit and utilize a shady streetagent to buy off players all the while knowing he is under such a microscope from Alabama, simply does not add up. Many have called Fulmer fat, a cheater, etc. but I have yet to see someone credibly accuse the man of being stupid. It seems to me that a much more reasonable explanation is that this 'streetagent' is doing everything he can to get in good with blue chip athletes out of FL in order to be there when the NFL starts calling. Further, this streetagent has a bad relationship w/ Miami already, and he probably sees a loaded team in knoxville with one glaring hole in it's secondary, and realizes that 'his kids' have the best opportunity to start, make a name, and get drafted ($$) by going to UT and starting early, rather than going to UM, FSU, or UF and competing for playing time w/ just as talented athletes.


That "sort of" makes sense....but why target UT only? UF has needs at LB and corner. "That team in the panhandle" needs WRs. scUM needs....whatever it is "that team down south" needs. If it's all about building up a resume for future NFL guys, why limit yourself to UT's secondary? That's not a smart business move. It makes no sense. You would limit your focus to UT for a specific reason....and IF IF IF IF it IS happening, it's not for some future NFL portfolio.

Also, you said the notion that "Phil Fulmer would go into another state where UT traditionally does not recruit and utilize a shady streetagent to buy off players, all the while knowing he is under such a microscope from Alabama, simply does not add up." I would agree....but perhaps it is PRECISELY because he hasn't had success and/or in-roads to south FL--as you suggest--that make this rumor so palpable. I'm not saying he did it, but you don't need to "recruit" help concerning areas in which you've had previous success. Even dishonest, immoral students wouldn't risk cheating on those exams they can ace on their own. If you're gonna cheat, you're gonna do it when you need the help.

Come to think of it, does anyone know what the NCAA regulations are on this? Can I make the rounds of the high schools in Gainesville and Coral Gables and just talk up/pitch the Gators? Is that illegal (in principle), or is it illegal ONLY IF the staff at UF is aware of what I'm doing? Or do I have to be surreptitiously "employed" by the athletic department....with the intention of passing out gifts and making promises to potential recruits in exchange for their LOI?

[Neo]

That "sort of" makes sense....but why target UT only? UF has needs at LB and corner. "That team in the panhandle" needs WRs. scUM needs....whatever it is "that team down south" needs. If it's all about building up a resume for future NFL guys, why limit yourself to UT's secondary? That's not a smart business move. It makes no sense. You would limit your focus to UT for a specific reason....and IF IF IF IF it IS happening, it's not for some future NFL portfolio.

Also, you said the notion that "Phil Fulmer would go into another state where UT traditionally does not recruit and utilize a shady streetagent to buy off players, all the while knowing he is under such a microscope from Alabama, simply does not add up." I would agree....but perhaps it is PRECISELY because he hasn't had success and/or in-roads to south FL--as you suggest--that make this rumor so palpable. I'm not saying he did it, but you don't need to "recruit" help concerning areas in which you've had previous success. Even dishonest, immoral students wouldn't risk cheating on those exams they can ace on their own...

Come to think of it, does anyone know what the NCAA regulations are on this? Can I make the rounds of the high schools in Gainesville and Coral Gables and just talk up/pitch the Gators? Is that illegal (in principle), or is it illegal ONLY IF the staff at UF is aware of what I'm doing? Or do I have to be surreptitiously "employed" by the athletic department....with the intention of passing out gifts and making promises to potential recruits in exchange for their LOI?

If I'm not mistaken, I read somewhere that if you were to go to a recruit and recommend he go to "such and such" school, that is a violation. Something about a reasonable person would assume you are a representive of that university. The article said that if you have a recruit the school might be interested it, you can call the coaches, but you cannot have any contact with the recruit in that manner.

[USAFGAMECOCK]

If I'm not mistaken, I read somewhere that if you were to go to a recruit and recommend he go to "such and such" school, that is a violation. Something about a reasonable person would assume you are a representive of that university. The article said that if you have a recruit the school might be interested it, you can call the coaches, but you cannot have any contact with the recruit in that manner.


So if I went to a HS player and gave him money and told him to go to clemson, would clemson get in trouble??? Ha ha...I'm just joking :D

[Neo]

So if I went to a HS player and gave him money and told him to go to clemson, would clemson get in trouble??? Ha ha...I'm just joking :D

Actually....Yes they would. That would be a serious infraction.

That would fall under "Improper Recruiting/Improper Benefits".

[USAFGAMECOCK]

Actually....Yes they would. That would be a serious infraction.

That would fall under "Improper Recruiting/Improper Benefits".


Well I wouldn't actually do that...I was just joking....but that's pretty interesting

[GatorNation]

If I'm not mistaken, I read somewhere that if you were to go to a recruit and recommend he go to "such and such" school, that is a violation. Something about a reasonable person would assume you are a representive of that university. The article said that if you have a recruit the school might be interested it, you can call the coaches, but you cannot have any contact with the recruit in that manner.

Well, there you go. Doesn't take much....and if "contact" doesn't have to be arranged by the athletic department to be considered a violation, watch out.

[Neo]

Well, there you go. Doesn't take much....and if "contact" doesn't have to be arranged by the athletic department to be considered a violation, watch out.

Not trying to change the subject.....

Maybe you should add one more pic to fill in the gap at the bottom.

[BamaFan425]

We cannot prove this?? You dont have to prove it in the NCAA. If they beleive or supsect that you have recruiting violations they can punish you. They dont have to have credible information. They could beleive another coach for instance and take his word for it. ;)

[JBryant12]

LOL i see what your gettin at but i dont think the NCAA is that gullible i think they actually check things out

[jneesy]

Fulmer would take chances with risky recruiting because he thinks he's untouchable , because of everything he has gotten away with thus far in his career.

[Neo]

LOL i see what your gettin at but i dont think the NCAA is that gullible i think they actually check things out

Technically...He's correct. The NCAA does have the authority to impose penalties just on suspicion alone. I do not know if they have ever used that power, but they do have it.

[Ironica]

Fulmer would take chances with risky recruiting because he thinks he's untouchable , because of everything he has gotten away with thus far in his career.
This is a perfect example of the "lore". Say something enough about a person/program (e.g. Gallion) and some begin to accept it as truth. No evidence to the contrary is ever enough. You can't prove a negative. No one has ever explained why the NCAA would value Fulmer and UT so much that they would look the other way at major violations. Fulmer's testimony in the Bama case was a small part of the case. If the NCAA didn't need proof to punish Bama - why ignore major problems at UT? Yet through persistent restating of unproven allegations, Fulmer has some how been elevated to "untouchable". Amazing.

[Neo]

This is a perfect example of the "lore". Say something enough about a person/program (e.g. Gallion) and some begin to accept it as truth. No evidence to the contrary is ever enough. You can't prove a negative. No one has ever explained why the NCAA would value Fulmer and UT so much that they would look the other way at major violations. Fulmer's testimony in the Bama case was a small part of the case. If the NCAA didn't need proof to punish Bama - why ignore major problems at UT? Yet through persistent restating of unproven allegations, Fulmer has some how been elevated to "untouchable". Amazing.

I said the NCAA retains that power. That doesn't mean they will use it.

The Joint Chief of Staff has the authority to remove the President from power as long as he has two (2) people in the Executive Branch sign off on it. Will he/she use that power? I seriously doubt it, but it's available.

[Ironica]

I said the NCAA retains that power. That doesn't mean they will use it.

The Joint Chief of Staff has the authority to remove the President from power as long as he has two (2) people in the Executive Branch sign off on it. Will he/she use that power? I seriously doubt it, but it's available.

DeLorianfan1 - sorry for the confusion but I wasn't referring to your statement. Instead, I was referencing the contention among many in the Bama case that the NCAA punished Bama based on suspicion rather than truth. My point was that if they don't need proof, they don't need Fulmer and thus why look the other way! It's circular logic. The claim is made that NCAA ignored MAJOR violations at UT in return for testimony from Fulmer against Bama. Then it is argued that the NCAA punished Bama without sufficient proof and with evidence that they (NCAA) made up. To repeat, if the NCAA takes this type of action (as is alleged) there is no reason to shelther Fulmer - he is of little or no value.

[JBryant12]

Actually....Yes they would. That would be a serious infraction.

That would fall under "Improper Recruiting/Improper Benefits".

So does this mean that any person who doesn't like a university can get that university in trouble with the NCAA? How can the universities protect themselves against that?

[Neo]

DeLorianfan1 - sorry for the confusion but I wasn't referring to your statement. Instead, I was referencing the contention among many in the Bama case that the NCAA punished Bama based on suspicion rather than truth. My point was that if they don't need proof, they don't need Fulmer and thus why look the other way! It's circular logic. The claim is made that NCAA ignored MAJOR violations at UT in return for testimony from Fulmer against Bama. Then it is argued that the NCAA punished Bama without sufficient proof and with evidence that they (NCAA) made up. To repeat, if the NCAA takes this type of action (as is alleged) there is no reason to shelther Fulmer - he is of little or no value.

Here's another way you could look at it from the other side of the fence.

Doesn't the DEA protect it's informants?

[Ironica]

Here's another way you could look at it from the other side of the fence.

Doesn't the DEA protect it's informants?
To be sure. The key is the value of the information. Many in Bama (inlcuding Gallion) claim that the NCAA fabricated evidence and never had "proof". If this is the case, would you protect a mob informant if you could just as easily make up the evidence? If you didn't need evidence? Again I reference the actual testimony. The vast majority of Fulmer's testimony was not part of the case.

Think of the risk the NCAA would take in knowingly sheltering UT. Of course anything is possible but it is improbable.

Also, Fulmer was not the only coach to testify.

Finally, my original point was that so many allegations against Fulmer have been made that he has taken on a mythical "teflon" persona. Isnt' it at least feasible that the allegations actually were not true and that Fulmer isn't getting away with anything? Are the innocent "teflon" or are they just innocent. (This last part is just to play the counter to your devil's advocate - I imagine that there have been some issues at UT as at many schools -- just not to the extent that Gallion alledges).

[Volnooga]

Not if they can arrest and punish on suspicion alone.

[QuackAttackVan]

The NCAA is having enough problems of their own as of late. A lot in fact.

Without a LOT of credible evidence....and I mean A LOT....which they will not find in this UT stuff.....the NCAA would not do anything severe with a huge program like Tennessee. It just won't happen.

[GatorNation]

Not trying to change the subject.....

Maybe you should add one more pic to fill in the gap at the bottom.

I wanted to add another pic, but nearly all of them are too large for the space....and the sig starts another line of pictures, which looks dumb. I'll change them up from time to time. Lot's of love to go around. =)

[Neo]

I wanted to add another pic, but nearly all of them are too large for the space....and the sig starts another line of pictures, which looks dumb. I'll change them up from time to time. Lot's of love to go around. =)


Cheaties??? LOL!

[carolinavol]

That "sort of" makes sense....but why target UT only? UF has needs at LB and corner. "That team in the panhandle" needs WRs. scUM needs....whatever it is "that team down south" needs. If it's all about building up a resume for future NFL guys, why limit yourself to UT's secondary? That's not a smart business move. It makes no sense. You would limit your focus to UT for a specific reason....and IF IF IF IF it IS happening, it's not for some future NFL portfolio.....
I would agree....but perhaps it is PRECISELY because he hasn't had success and/or in-roads to south FL--as you suggest--that make this rumor so palpable. I'm not saying he did it, but you don't need to "recruit" help concerning areas in which you've had previous success. Even dishonest, immoral students wouldn't risk cheating on those exams they can ace on their own. If you're gonna cheat, you're gonna do it when you need the help.
Come to think of it, does anyone know what the NCAA regulations are on this? Can I make the rounds of the high schools in Gainesville and Coral Gables and just talk up/pitch the Gators? Is that illegal (in principle), or is it illegal ONLY IF the staff at UF is aware of what I'm doing? Or do I have to be surreptitiously "employed" by the athletic department....with the intention of passing out gifts and making promises to potential recruits in exchange for their LOI?

Gator,
Good response, but you are missing a couple of things. The streetagent hasn't limited himself to UT, remember, he was involved with the Bobby Washington deal last year. This can also explain why this guy is motivated to recruit against UM. Money, benefits, etc are great motivators, and that is why the assumption that UT is paying this guy has had some legs. But remember, anger and resentment towards those (miami) who fail to pump his ego to his desired levels could also motivate this guy. Also, UT is the only major school in the South that I know of that has the benefits of playing time early, etc for the specific positions (DB) of Phillips and Morley. Third, the rule on who acts on behalf of an Institutions interest seems very subjective to me, but I think the general rule of thumb is if your are an alumni, booster, season ticket holder, etc. you are an institutional actor.

[GatorNation]

Gator,
Good response, but you are missing a couple of things. The streetagent hasn't limited himself to UT, remember, he was involved with the Bobby Washington deal last year. This can also explain why this guy is motivated to recruit against UM. Money, benefits, etc are great motivators, and that is why the assumption that UT is paying this guy has had some legs. But remember, anger and resentment towards those (miami) who fail to pump his ego to his desired levels could also motivate this guy. Also, UT is the only major school in the South that I know of that has the benefits of playing time early, etc for the specific positions (DB) of Phillips and Morley. Third, the rule on who acts on behalf of an Institutions interest seems very subjective to me, but I think the general rule of thumb is if your are an alumni, booster, season ticket holder, etc. you are an institutional actor.

Makes sense...I'll buy that.

[Neo]

To an extent....I can buy that too....

[Neo]

Hey Gator,
Remember when we had this discussion?????


Come to think of it, does anyone know what the NCAA regulations are on this? Can I make the rounds of the high schools in Gainesville and Coral Gables and just talk up/pitch the Gators? Is that illegal (in principle), or is it illegal ONLY IF the staff at UF is aware of what I'm doing? Or do I have to be surreptitiously "employed" by the athletic department....with the intention of passing out gifts and making promises to potential recruits in exchange for their LOI?


If I'm not mistaken, I read somewhere that if you were to go to a recruit and recommend he go to "such and such" school, that is a violation. Something about a reasonable person would assume you are a representive of that university. The article said that if you have a recruit the school might be interested it, you can call the coaches, but you cannot have any contact with the recruit in that manner.

Well here it is your answer straight from the NCAA/SEC Compliance Webpage in "Black and White". The nerve of some people to say that I don't know my regulations. Hmm:) (Not you Gator) I had to edit the last part out about punishments to make it fit in one post.

Knowing the Regulations
What You Need To Know . . . SEC Rules Compliance

Every supporter of an institution's athletics program has an obligation to abide by the same regulations, bylaws and guidelines as the coaches, administrators and staff members throughout the athletic department. To avoid rules violations, you need to be aware of the NCAA bylaws that govern athletics. All infractions are contrary to the Southeastern Conference's commitment to integrity and impede progress toward competing for national championships in each sport the SEC sponsors.

Athletic Representatives
According to the NCAA Bylaws, a person becomes a "representative of athletic interest" (or a "booster") by engaging in any of the following activities:


Joining the various clubs of institutional athletic interest.
Making financial contributions to the athletic department, a booster club or an intercollegiate team.
Arranging for or providing summer employment for enrolled student-athletes.
Purchasing season tickets in any sport.
Promoting institutional athletic program in any manner.
Once you become a "representative of athletic interest," you retain that status forever, even if you no longer contribute to or support the institution.

Contact
A contact is any face-to-face encounter between a prospective student-athlete or the prospect's parent or legal guardian and a university staff member (or supporter) during which any dialogue occurs in excess of an exchange of a greeting. Any such face-to-face encounter that is prearranged or that takes place on the grounds of the prospect's school or at the site of his/her high school, preparatory school, two-year college or all-star team shall be considered a contact, regardless of the conversation (including a greeting) that occurs.

Recruiting Regulations
Prospective Student-athlete – Is a person who has begun classes for the ninth grade. However, it is possible for a younger student-athlete to be a prospect so it is best to treat all student-athletes as prospects.

Recruiting - Is any solicitation of a prospective student-athlete or the prospect's family (or guardian) by a university staff member for the purpose of securing the prospect's enrollment at the university and/or participation in the intercollegiate athletics program.

Permissible Recruiters – All in-person, on- and off-campus recruiting contacts with prospective student-athletes or their relatives or legal guardians shall be made only by authorized university staff members. Such contacts, as well as correspondence and telephone calls by representatives of an institution's athletics interest are prohibited subject to a few limited exceptions.

Simply put, all "athletic representatives/supporters" are prohibited from contacting a prospect or members of a prospect's family by telephone, letter or in person on or off campus for the purpose of encouraging participation in the intercollegiate athletics program.

The following questions and answers will help in illustrating these important rules:
Q: Is it permissible for you to discuss the university with a prospect?
A: No. You may not participate in any recruiting activities promoting the university to a prospect.

Q: Is it permissible for you to offer an institutional coach the names of prospects to evaluate?
A: Yes. The NCAA allows you to provide a coach with names of prospects for recruitment.

Extra Benefit
An institution cannot provide an extra benefit to a prospect or enrolled student-athlete. The term "extra benefit" refers to any special arrangement by an institutional employee or representative of athletic interest that is not authorized by NCAA legislation. Activities that are prohibited include, but are not limited to, the following:


Providing gifts.
Providing free or reduced-cost services.
Providing a loan, or arranging or co-signing for a loan.
Employing relatives or friends of a prospect as an inducement for enrollment of a prospect.
Providing use of an automobile.
Providing rent-free or reduced-rent housing.
Providing tickets to an athletic, institutional or community event.
Providing use of telephone or credit cards without charge or at a reduced cost.
Promising to provide any of the above.
The following questions and answers will help in illustrating these important rules:
Q: Can you provide a student-athlete or prospect with free or discounted service (movie tickets, dinner, laundry, dry cleaning, etc.)?
A: No. What seems to be a thoughtful action can be construed as an extra benefit for an enrolled student-athlete or an unfair recruiting advantage for a prospective student-athlete.

Q: Can you employ a member of a prospect's family?
A: No. Employment of a prospect's relative can be construed as an unfair recruiting advantage.

Q: Can you invite all student-athletes attending a local high school to a holiday party?
A: No. You cannot single out prospective student-athletes as a group to be your guests but you could invite the entire class (e.g., seniors, juniors, etc.) to be guests.

Q: Can you offer a prospect your tickets to football games and your car to drive to the event?
A: No. Offering free or reduced tickets to any event is not allowed, nor may you provide transportation of any sort to a prospect.

Q: Can you contact a student-athlete and ask to buy his/her complimentary admissions passes for an athletic event?
A: No. A student-athlete may not receive payment from any source for his/her complimentary admissions and may not exchange or assign them for any item of value.

Q: Can a student-athlete attend a local charity event?
A: Yes. However, some restrictions apply so please contact the athletic department for the proper procedures before completing your plans.

Q: A student-athlete banquet has just concluded and you see two student-athletes standing in the rain without a ride. Can you offer them a ride to the dormitory?
A: No. You may not provide any transportation to a student-athlete whether it is airfare home or a ride across campus.

Alumni Organizations
Bona fide alumni organizations of an institution may sponsor luncheons or dinners at which prospects (athletes and non-athletes) of that immediate locale are guests. An institution's alumni organizations may be considered a bona fide part of that institution, provided such an organization is accredited by the President/Chancellor and meets these additional terms and conditions:

1. A staff member of the university periodically shall inspect the financial records of the alumni organization and certify that expenditures comply with the rules and regulations of the NCAA and the conference, and

2. A club official shall be designated by the President/Chancellor as the university's official agent in the administration of the club's funds, and said club official shall file regular reports to the university relating the manner in which the club funds have been spent in the recruiting of student-athletes. When an alumni organization is certified by the President/Chancellor as being a bona fide part of the university, said organization becomes subject to all of the limitations placed upon the institution by NCAA legislation. A violation of such legislation by any member of the alumni organization shall be a violation by the institution.

http://www.secsports.com/index.php?well_id=2&url_publish_channel_id=368

[Neo]

Athletic Representatives
According to the NCAA Bylaws, a person becomes a "representative of athletic interest" (or a "booster") by engaging in any of the following activities:

Joining the various clubs of institutional athletic interest.
Making financial contributions to the athletic department, a booster club or an intercollegiate team.
Arranging for or providing summer employment for enrolled student-athletes.
Purchasing season tickets in any sport.
Promoting institutional athletic program in any manner.
Once you become a "representative of athletic interest," you retain that status forever, even if you no longer contribute to or support the institution.

http://www.secsports.com/index.php?well_id=2&url_publish_channel_id=368


I really like that one above! :) The SEC is saying that both them and the NCAA recognizes a fan as an "Athletic Representative".

Interesting isn't it??? Where's the "grey" area in the bolded statement???:)

[GatorNation]

Never thought just BSing about a school with some kids would be against regulations. In UT's case (if the rumors were/are true), I thought Wright was in the wrong because he (allegedly) accepted money for trying to steer players to UT. I wouldn't have thought UT could get in any trouble if this guy was just saying "Go to UT."

I also never thought I was a "booster" simply because I've given money to UF in the past. That's pretty cool....

UF booster for life!!! Go Gators!

[Neo]

Never thought just BSing about a school with some kids would be against regulations. In UT's case (if the rumors were/are true), I thought Wright was in the wrong because he accepted money for trying to steer players to UT. I wouldn't have thought UT could get in any trouble if this guy was just saying "Go to UT."

I also never thought I was a "booster" simply because I've given money to UF in the past. That's pretty cool....

UF booster for life!!! Go Gators!


Did you misunderstand at all what that said? Those are the SEC/NCAA Guidelines governing recruiting. Technically, if you buy a ticket to a game, you are contributing in their eyes. :)

[GatorNation]

Did you misunderstand at all what that said? Those are the SEC/NCAA Guidelines governing recruiting. Technically, if you buy a ticket to a game, you are contributing in their eyes. :)

No, I got it...I just didn't realize it was THAT sensitive. Handing out gifts or money or services.....actual stuff is certainly one thing, but I never thought UF could get in trouble, for example, if I just said to some HS player, "Hey, go to Florida. They have an amazing program, the prettiest girls, and awesome weather. You should check 'em out." :)

[fernandomike]

I read the rules a bit differently than you guys. A "fan" is not a booster and thus is not prohibited from going up to a prospect and encouraging him to go to a particular school. This is stated in the "Athletic Representative" section. A fan can become an athletic representative or booster by "buying season tickets." Note that it did not say single game tickets. Also joining athletic clubs, contributing money, providing summer jobs, etc. changes your status from everyday fan to booster.
When that change occurs is when you gotta watch out. If every fan is a booster then any high-school coach who makes a suggestion risk being called a booster. The kids that go to school with the prospect and tell him to go here or there are all boosters. I just don't think that that is the case. But with such convoluted language, who knows?

[Neo]

No, I got it...I just didn't realize it was THAT sensitive. Handing out gifts or money or services.....actual stuff is certainly one thing, but I never thought UF could get in trouble, for example, if I just said to some HS player, "Hey, go to Florida. They have an amazing program, the prettiest girls, and awesome weather. You should check 'em out." :)

Some people say that there is a "grey" area in those rules and they aren't so "black and white". :)

[Neo]

I read the rules a bit differently than you guys. A "fan" is not a booster and thus is not prohibited from going up to a prospect and encouraging him to go to a particular school. This is stated in the "Athletic Representative" section. A fan can become an athletic representative or booster by "buying season tickets." Note that it did not say single game tickets. Also joining athletic clubs, contributing money, providing summer jobs, etc. changes your status from everyday fan to booster.
When that change occurs is when you gotta watch out. If every fan is a booster then any high-school coach who makes a suggestion risk being called a booster. The kids that go to school with the prospect and tell him to go here or there are all boosters. I just don't think that that is the case. But with such convoluted language, who knows?

Oh boy. ((Shaking head)) So far the only people saying what you're saying are UT fans. How do you misunderstand that? I would really like to get some other team's fans opinion's on this. The "bolded" areas is the main argument.



Simply put, all "athletic representatives/supporters" are prohibited from contacting a prospect or members of a prospect's family by telephone, letter or in person on or off campus for the purpose of encouraging participation in the intercollegiate athletics program.

The following questions and answers will help in illustrating these important rules:
Q: Is it permissible for you to discuss the university with a prospect?
A: No. You may not participate in any recruiting activities promoting the university to a prospect.

Q: Is it permissible for you to offer an institutional coach the names of prospects to evaluate?
A: Yes. The NCAA allows you to provide a coach with names of prospects for recruitment.

Athletic Representatives
According to the NCAA Bylaws, a person becomes a "representative of athletic interest" (or a "booster") by engaging in any of the following activities:
Joining the various clubs of institutional athletic interest.
Making financial contributions to the athletic department, a booster club or an intercollegiate team.
Arranging for or providing summer employment for enrolled student-athletes.
Purchasing season tickets in any sport.
Promoting institutional athletic program in any manner.
Once you become a "representative of athletic interest," you retain that status forever, even if you no longer contribute to or support the institution.

[Neo]

I read the rules a bit differently than you guys. A "fan" is not a booster and thus is not prohibited from going up to a prospect and encouraging him to go to a particular school. This is stated in the "Athletic Representative" section. A fan can become an athletic representative or booster by "buying season tickets." Note that it did not say single game tickets. Also joining athletic clubs, contributing money, providing summer jobs, etc. changes your status from everyday fan to booster.
When that change occurs is when you gotta watch out. If every fan is a booster then any high-school coach who makes a suggestion risk being called a booster. The kids that go to school with the prospect and tell him to go here or there are all boosters. I just don't think that that is the case. But with such convoluted language, who knows?

It doesn't say that chief. It says and I quote: "Promoting institutional athletic program in any manner." By promoting your UT football team, by definition, you have now become a "Athletic Representative" for the University of Tennessee. It didn't say that you had to do this and that. It's very clearly stated.

[bucksutton]

It doesn't say that chief. It says and I quote: "Promoting institutional athletic program in any manner." By promoting your UT football team, by definition, you have now become a "Athletic Representative" for the University of Tennessee. It didn't say that you had to do this and that. It's very clearly stated.

I don't see one thing wrong with a fan going up and saying to a potential recruit how honored he/she would be if he chose the school I loved so much to come and play for them. The main reason it is ok is because a fan is not on that universitys pay roll. I do hope that none of the SEC coaches will try any tricks of the trade to get a recruit to come to there University. There are times when I wish that a certain recruit had chosen Bama but decided to go somewhere else, but then I get to thinking, he is following his heart to where he wanted to go. Remember, a Fan is a Fan who wishes the best for his school, and a lobbiest is an employee who has no business influencing recruits. ;) ;) ;)

[fernandomike]

Delorean,
I respectfully disagree, promoting does not simply mean being a fan. I take promoting to mean engaging in activites that bring in more money and fans like organizing fund-raisers and such. By your definition, anyone breathing is a booster. That makes everyone in violation. No school would ever win a case against the NCAA. These rules are primarily meant for representatives of the university.
I recently purchased both UT and Bama official merchandise. The Bama stuff was for a friend. By your reading, I am a booster for Bama (that ain't the case) and UT, since I am promoting their interests. Plus, countless other schools.
You cite the Q@A session in your response, even highlighting it in some cases. When they speak of whether or not "you" can do this or that, they are speaking of representatives of the university or boosters. In short, if I am sitting next to a five-star recruit at a game and I as a non-donor, non-season ticket holder and such, tell him that UT is a great place to go to school. That is not a violation.

[bbqit]

Delorean,
I respectfully disagree, promoting does not simply mean being a fan. I take promoting to mean engaging in activites that bring in more money and fans like organizing fund-raisers and such. By your definition, anyone breathing is a booster. That makes everyone in violation. No school would ever win a case against the NCAA. These rules are primarily meant for representatives of the university.
I recently purchased both UT and Bama official merchandise. The Bama stuff was for a friend. By your reading, I am a booster for Bama (that ain't the case) and UT, since I am promoting their interests. Plus, countless other schools.
You cite the Q@A session in your response, even highlighting it in some cases. When they speak of whether or not "you" can do this or that, they are speaking of representatives of the university or boosters. In short, if I am sitting next to a five-star recruit at a game and I as a non-donor, non-season ticket holder and such, tell him that UT is a great place to go to school. That is not a violation.


Dang! I just bought a "Home of Kermit the Frog" t-shirt for a birthday present to a friend of mine's daughter. I didn't realize I was boosting or promoting, just making someone happy.

[Neo]

Delorean,
I respectfully disagree, promoting does not simply mean being a fan. I take promoting to mean engaging in activites that bring in more money and fans like organizing fund-raisers and such. By your definition, anyone breathing is a booster. That makes everyone in violation. No school would ever win a case against the NCAA. These rules are primarily meant for representatives of the university.
I recently purchased both UT and Bama official merchandise. The Bama stuff was for a friend. By your reading, I am a booster for Bama (that ain't the case) and UT, since I am promoting their interests. Plus, countless other schools.
You cite the Q@A session in your response, even highlighting it in some cases. When they speak of whether or not "you" can do this or that, they are speaking of representatives of the university or boosters. In short, if I am sitting next to a five-star recruit at a game and I as a non-donor, non-season ticket holder and such, tell him that UT is a great place to go to school. That is not a violation.

Granted, that's your interpretation and you stand by it. The real question is how does the SEC and NCAA interpret the rules? :confused:

[GRASSHOPPER]

Any Gamecock Fans Remember A Recruit Named Dorian Capers. I Work The Chains For My Sons Hs Football Games. Dc Was Playing For The Visiting Team. I Welcomed Him To Sc And Told Him I Coul'nt Wait To See Him Playing On Sat. Instead Of Fri. Did I Commit A Violation I Did'nt Slip Him A Jackson Or Anything?

[Neo]

Any Gamecock Fans Remember A Recruit Named Dorian Capers. I Work The Chains For My Sons Hs Football Games. Dc Was Playing For The Visiting Team. I Welcomed Him To Sc And Told Him I Coul'nt Wait To See Him Playing On Sat. Instead Of Fri. Did I Commit A Violation I Did'nt Slip Him A Jackson Or Anything?

At the time, Capers was already committed to USC, so my best guess would be no. It's like I said before....

The rules are for everyone to follow, but it's up to the NCAA's interpretation of the rules to determine what happens. :)

[bbqit]

Any Gamecock Fans Remember A Recruit Named Dorian Capers. I Work The Chains For My Sons Hs Football Games. Dc Was Playing For The Visiting Team. I Welcomed Him To Sc And Told Him I Coul'nt Wait To See Him Playing On Sat. Instead Of Fri. Did I Commit A Violation I Did'nt Slip Him A Jackson Or Anything?

WOW! No Jackson? No Kermit T-Shirt? Easy folks! NCAA isn't gonna strap you for that!

[GRASSHOPPER]

At the time, Capers was already committed to USC, so my best guess would be no. It's like I said before....

The rules are for everyone to follow, but it's up to the NCAA's interpretation of the rules to determine what happens. :)THAT WAS A BIG BOY DELO. TOO BAD HE WAS A DUMBA--. HE PLAY TIGHT ENDTHAT NIGHT AND LINEBACKER. MY BOY DID CATCH A PASS ACROSS THE MIDDLE ON HIM THOUGH. I WAS PROUD! BUT FOR THE MOST PART DC WAS TOYING WITH UM. HE WAS HUGH!

[GRASSHOPPER]

WOW! No Jackson? No Kermit T-Shirt? Easy folks! NCAA isn't gonna strap you for that!I DID HOLD HIS HAND WHILE HE WAS CROSSING MY CHAINS THOUGH!

[bbqit]

I DID HOLD HIS HAND WHILE HE WAS CROSSING MY CHAINS THOUGH!


You ain't right! funny but not right at all!