Opinions on Dave Odom?

[Galactus]

Well, after another frustrating football season, I usually look to my favorite sport — basketball — to cheer me up. However, even THAT is often denied to us Gamecock fans....as we seem eternally doomed to suffer in the two major sports.

So far, I'm not happy with Odom, I have to say. On other forums I'd get blasted for posting my honest opinions, but I'm hoping here for some intelligent and reasonable opinions. Struggles in games vs. South Florida, East Carolina and SC State....and a ridiculous loss to Clemson.....do NOT help to encourage me. I know we played Kansas close, but that's still an "L."

If you still have hope Odom will get it done in Columbia, why?

And if not, why?

Personally, I don't see it happening.

My biggest concern is recruiting. Odom continues to settle for JUCOs and "projects", and this gives me little hope for the future when I see even the football-oriented schools like Bama, Florida and MSU landing top notch talent while we continue to miss out. Basketball is a sport where TALENT is extremely important. And we have not recruited well, truthfully, since the McGuire days.

Odom's coaching is decent, but not good enough without the talent to execute.

Football is aggravating enough for us Gamecocks. Can't we at least build a winner in hoops? Seems like most schools have one of the big two sports to look forward to......but not us.

[SPURED]

to me he seems to be just like Holtz. alot of JUCO players and good defence. i honestly dont see us getting much better than we were last year under odem. maybe a new coach that really knows how to recruit good ball players will make us better. but we will never know till that day comes. and if you want to watch a USC team do well watch baseball! Predicting a National championship this year!

[Neo]

to me he seems to be just like Holtz. alot of JUCO players and good defence. i honestly dont see us getting much better than we were last year under odem. maybe a new coach that really knows how to recruit good ball players will make us better. but we will never know till that day comes. and if you want to watch a USC team do well watch baseball! Predicting a National championship this year!

Odom isn't that bad. Yeah he signs a lot of JUCO's, but overall we do ok. Just my 0.02.

[GRASSHOPPER]

I Think He A Good Coach. I Think He Can Recruit. I Think He Recognizes Talent When He Sees It- But- I Think Hes Not A Very Exciting Guy To Play For And Has A Hard Time Motivating His Players. I Was So Suprised To See Him Get A Tech. Foul Last Night. It Got Me A Little Excited. Finally Some Spunk!

[Galactus]

to me he seems to be just like Holtz. alot of JUCO players and good defence. i honestly dont see us getting much better than we were last year under odem. maybe a new coach that really knows how to recruit good ball players will make us better. but we will never know till that day comes. and if you want to watch a USC team do well watch baseball! Predicting a National championship this year!

Well, I know we win at baseball and I'm happy for the fans of that sport. It's good we win at something.

But to be perfectly honest I could care less about college baseball. Most of the nation seems to agree as the sport gets little or no coverage nationally......and few games are televised until Omaha. Unlike college football and basketball, college baseball remains a small revenue sport....and most of the talent is in the minor leagues anyway. Plus, it's just too hard to follow for out of towners like myself.

In any case, we'll never get any respect winning in college baseball. If we want respect in the SEC — and nationally — we need to find a way to win in either football or men's hoops. Or both! :o

Let me say — I like Odom as a person. i think he's a good guy, and has proven to be honorable. He's got class. But as much as I'd love to see him win consistently here, I just don't see it happening beyond a certain point. I hope our next coach is a young, forward-thinking kind of guy in the Billy Donovan/Jeff Lebo mode.

[rabidcock]

Dave Odum is an excellent coach and he will do as much for us as any coach would. He built Wake Forest into a national power, and I believe, in time, can do the same here.

We've had some postseason success, 20+ wins 2 out of three years here and should win 20 this year. When was the last time that happened? Answer: not in YOUR lifetime...or mine. Even the venerable Frank McGuire only averaged 12 wins per year his first FOUR years here. Give the man time. All we need is some beef up front to complete this team.

[Neo]

Dave Odum is an excellent coach and he will do as much for us as any coach would. He built Wake Forest into a national power, and I believe, in time, can do the same here.

We've had some postseason sucess, 20+ wins 2 out of three years here and should win 20 this year. When was the last time that happened? Answer: not in YOUR lifetime...or mine. Even the venerable Frank McGuire only averaged 12 wins per year his first FOUR years here. Give the man time. All we need is some beef up front to complete this team.

I agree with your assessment Rabid.... :)

[GRASSHOPPER]

Good Call Rabid

[Galactus]

Rabid,

I hope you're right. You make good points about Odom winning 20 games in the first three years.

However, recruiting will tell the tale for Odom. The four guys he has coming in next year (3 JUCOs, BTW), will determine his fate, IMO.

[rabidcock]

I'm a little prejudiced: I followed Odum's career at Wake and was ecstatic when I heard he was coming here.

One of those recruits will give us some height at 6'11" and 260 pounds and then there's a wide-bodied power forward that is 6'8", 240; he has a high percentage short jumper and is a good rebounder.

Odum really likes perimeter shooters to complement an inside power game, but we just haven't gotten those dominating inside players yet. Hopefully, one of these guys will come through for us.

To be quite frank, I would be happy in roundball to just have consistent 20-game winners. Even under McGuire, Carolina never had much in the way of post-season success. I, like you, am hoping for the best.

[SPURED]

i hope we can continue to have 20 win seasons. and atleast improve two atleast a second round tourny team. i hate going out in the first round.

[Neo]

i hope we can continue to have 20 win seasons. and atleast improve two atleast a second round tourny team. i hate going out in the first round.


I hate it too, but Rome wasn't built in a day. This guy Odom made Wake Forest into a beast. Give him a little time, he will do it here.

[rabidcock]

Before the arrival of Odum at Wake Forest, the Deamon Deacons had 8 total NCAA appearances in their history. In his 12 years there, they has 8 MORE (and 3 NIT appearances). He is also Wake's all-time tournament victories leader, with 2 sweet 16 and 1 elite eight appearance(s).

The trend continues at USC, with 2 appearances in 3 years. His presence has been duly noted by other successful coaches come tourney time.

The man can coach! WHERE'S THE BEEF?!!! (Hopefully in the last recruiting class.)

[raptorcox]

Odom's biggest weakness is in the postseason. At Wake, he could get them into the Big Dance, but couldn't get past the 1st round until Tim Duncan came along... When Tim graduated, Odom failed to get past the 1st round again (just like USC last year).

I think we are better off without Fogler, but it would have been nice to have had Tubby Smith or maybe Bobby Knight (especially since McGee has landed Spurrier, we would have a great coaching staff in place in the 3 major sports - yes... baseball is the other one, Galactus)

[rabidcock]

Well, let's don't fire a winning coach just yet. As I recall, Frank McGuire had problems getting past that 1st round, as well. Maybe we can lure John Wooden out of retirement (he's only 92); he probably has a few good years left. He certainly had no problems getting past the 1st round; his only problem was allowing someone else a NC for about a decade.

Let's face it, only a chosen few can consistently get much futher than 1st or 2nd round---it's a numbers game. If you are lucky enough to develop a national power and do so year after year, then bully for you. Let's grant him the length of his contract and see where he takes us.

Hopefully, we will all have something to smile about.

[As an aside, I'll share a secret with you....I would settle for .500 roundball AND baseball if we could consistently win 9-11 games per season in football, with an occasional National Championship thrown in the mix.-----How about you?!]

[gwilli1]

Why don't we go get Mark Few. He continues to do very well at a small school. He's young and a winner.

[raptorcox]

Gotta be a reason he hasn't jumped from the Zags yet....

[Demandbetter]

Well, after another frustrating football season, I usually look to my favorite sport — basketball — to cheer me up. However, even THAT is often denied to us Gamecock fans....as we seem eternally doomed to suffer in the two major sports.

So far, I'm not happy with Odom, I have to say. On other forums I'd get blasted for posting my honest opinions, but I'm hoping here for some intelligent and reasonable opinions. Struggles in games vs. South Florida, East Carolina and SC State....and a ridiculous loss to Clemson.....do NOT help to encourage me. I know we played Kansas close, but that's still an "L."

If you still have hope Odom will get it done in Columbia, why?

And if not, why?

Personally, I don't see it happening.

My biggest concern is recruiting. Odom continues to settle for JUCOs and "projects", and this gives me little hope for the future when I see even the football-oriented schools like Bama, Florida and MSU landing top notch talent while we continue to miss out. Basketball is a sport where TALENT is extremely important. And we have not recruited well, truthfully, since the McGuire days.

Odom's coaching is decent, but not good enough without the talent to execute.

Football is aggravating enough for us Gamecocks. Can't we at least build a winner in hoops? Seems like most schools have one of the big two sports to look forward to......but not us.


I have to agree. I'm not satisfied with everything Odom has done. He really hasn't shown me anything. Yes, they went to the NCAA last season and they proved they didn't belong with a very poor performance in the opening round. Exactly who did they beat last season? Not one team of any real consequence. And this year? Sure they've lost close games to Kansas and Pitt. When are they going to start winning those close games? Playing someone close means exactly squat. Kansas and Pitt could have had bad games. It would have meant something if they had won one of those games and then lost the other one in a close contest.

I think we should give Odom one more season after this one and if things don't improve, we need to try to lure the Steve Spurrier of college basketball to SC.

[Scsfinest1]

I have to agree. I'm not satisfied with everything Odom has done. He really hasn't shown me anything. Yes, they went to the NCAA last season and they proved they didn't belong with a very poor performance in the opening round. Exactly who did they beat last season? Not one team of any real consequence. And this year? Sure they've lost close games to Kansas and Pitt. When are they going to start winning those close games? Playing someone close means exactly squat. Kansas and Pitt could have had bad games. It would have meant something if they had won one of those games and then lost the other one in a close contest.

I think we should give Odom one more season after this one and if things don't improve, we need to try to lure the Steve Spurrier of college basketball to SC.

We should be satisfied with Odoms efforts so far. He has surpassed any expectations I am sure any of us had. I was pleasantly surprised we made it to the NCAA tournament last year. The year before we made it to the NIT finals. Odom has a decent recruiting class coming in next year. We have to be patient. Rome was not built in a day.

BTW the Kansas and Pitt games were away from Columbia against nationally ranked teams. I could understand this thread if we were losing home games Campbell or Winthrop.

[Galactus]

If Odom had top notch recruits lined up, I would feel different. But he doesn't.

Sure....next year's recruiting class looks fairly decent.....but none of the guys are 5-star blue chippers, so we're gonna have to hope they develop.

And it's rare for unheralded recruits to develop into true superstars in this day and age. Plus he's missed out on top in state talent for three straight seasons!

It's possible, but without blue chippers, you are really setting yourself up for the hard way to go about doing things.

(And rap....baseball is nice, but a major sport it is not.....college baseball is and will always be a minor revenue sport. Only at USC do some of our fans try to make into something bigger.....mainly because it's the only thing we're worth a crap in!! :o The rest of the nation could care less! )

[raptorcox]

All in all folks, don't you agree that USC is in excellent shape coach-wise in the major sport areas?

[Demandbetter]

Dave Odum is an excellent coach and he will do as much for us as any coach would. He built Wake Forest into a national power, and I believe, in time, can do the same here.

We've had some postseason success, 20+ wins 2 out of three years here and should win 20 this year. When was the last time that happened? Answer: not in YOUR lifetime...or mine. Even the venerable Frank McGuire only averaged 12 wins per year his first FOUR years here. Give the man time. All we need is some beef up front to complete this team.


SC needs some consistent shooters. It seems all anyone has to do is zone Carolina and we get beat. We can't shoot the ball consistently enough for teams to respect our outside shot. If the opponents have to respect the outside shot then it should open things up a little more on the inside.

[Galactus]

All in all folks, don't you agree that USC is in excellent shape coach-wise in the major sport areas?

Generally, yes.

Jury is out on Odom, IMO....until we see how this next recruiting class pans out. He had FOUR scholarships to work with.....and he used THREE of them on JUCOs. That is a huge gamble, IMO......especially considering the in-state prospects we've missed out on....So we'll see......

Odom's coaching is fine, basically. It's his recruiting efforts that worry me the most.

[raptorcox]

Odom is running a clean program, at least... and finally adjusting to the SEC, he needs to win more SEC regular season games and he won't be run out of town.

[Galactus]

Finding a way to beat Kentucky would be a huge statement, I think. That's a tall order, of course.

The loss to Clemson really hurts. We should've never lost that game......not just because it was to our rival, but it may hurt if we are on the bubble come Selection Sunday.

[Beebop]

Odom can coach.....he is however having a little trouble finding the right mix of recruits. Take this year for example....We don't have and outside scoring threat who can light it up each and every game. We have a couple of streak shooters, who when they are hot, help us to compete with the UK's and Pitts' of the world. We have the interior strength but can't exploit that without help from the perimeter. TWT.

[raptorcox]

Gal, Clemson's loss will hurt us only if the SEC regular season continues to shut down USC as it does every year. I think we will be lucky to win 7 in the regular season and we will be on the bubble.

[GRASSHOPPER]

A Close Loss To An Acc Team Won't Hurt As Much- And I Think Clemson Bb Will Suprise Eome Peeps This Year

[raptorcox]

I hate to admit it, but Oliver Purnell will turn things around in Clemson basketball :(

[vmandan]

South Carolina Will Beat Uk Tonight!!!! Go Cocks!!!!!!!!!!

[GRASSHOPPER]

South Carolina Will Beat Uk Tonight!!!! Go Cocks!!!!!!!!!!SOONER OR LATER THESE RANKED TEAMS WE HAVE BEEN PLAYING SO WELL ARE GONNA FALL. LETS START WITH UK---GO COCKS

[GRASSHOPPER]

Another 4 Point Loss To A Top Ten Team---geeez!

[Payindews]

It is very fustrating watching our b ball team so far this year. I don't think I can keep up with another one. To come so close and to think we have it, then it is jerked away at the last moments. To be a Gamecock you must learn to love heartbreak.

[JBryant12]

I dont know why yall are complainin about odom because before him i remember the team not even makin the NCCA tournament let alone the NIT. Sure the team has trouble gettin motivated to play weaker team and can't finish off the good teams but at least were winnin some games and makin it to the tournament. We should at least watch and see what happens this year before we start talkin aobut firing him.

[GRASSHOPPER]

I Am Not Complaining I Like Froggy. Show Me Where I Say Fire. Frustration Dose'nt Mean Fire. Frustration Is Just Part Of Being A Gamecock Fan In Any Sport Except Track.

[Neo]

I Am Not Complaining I Like Froggy. Show Me Where I Say Fire. Frustration Dose'nt Mean Fire. Frustration Is Just Part Of Being A Gamecock Fan In Any Sport Except Track.


I think Odom is doing just fine. Can you tell me that prior to Odom, USC's Basketball team was this competitive with the top teams in the country?

[raptorcox]

Odom has a hard job, but I only watch the games now in pieces since the Clemson loss. I saw us go up in Kansas and last night, then chose not to watch the end of those games only due to the usual results... it just is not worth the aggravation to get mad at the losses, those kids are playing tough with the best, just not warmed up yet - maybe these 4 point setbacks will pay off in the SEC Tournament and hopefully in the postseason...

[GRASSHOPPER]

Is It Just Me Or Does Our Basketball Era Mirror Our Football Era?(not A Slam Guys Don't Get Your Panties In A Wad) A Bunch Of Close Loses To Quality Opponents. Beat Who You're Supposed To And Lose To Who You're Supposed To!

[COCKSTER]

SC needs some consistent shooters. It seems all anyone has to do is zone Carolina and we get beat. We can't shoot the ball consistently enough for teams to respect our outside shot. If the opponents have to respect the outside shot then it should open things up a little more on the inside.
Very well put! What we need is an outside shooter. Odom recruited them at Wake but
I have not seen a consistant out side shooter,since he arrived. We also lose games to
teams we should beat.Often because we can hit the out side shots down the streach
or we end up shooting 40% from the fee throw line.(which is totally uncalled for)
However,I do feel that Odom is doing a good job.And hopefully the recruiting will come
around. GO COCKS!!

[GamecockDave]

Even the venerable Frank McGuire only averaged 12 wins per year his first FOUR years here. Give the man time. All we need is some beef up front to complete this team.

I, for one, am impressed with what Odom has accomplished. Does anyone REMEMBER what we looked like afew years ago? BIG, SLOW,CLUMSY. We now look like a REAL college basketball team. He have SPEED and QUICKNESS. Are we perfect? No. We do need shooters, or rather we need SCORERS. Someone who will get the big basket at the end of a tight game.

I believe he is building a solid foundation with quality TEAM ORIENTED players. We need to get back to The Dance a few years consecutively, then we will be able to recruit the better talented players we can't get today.

We smoked UGa last Sat. If we win at LSU Wed. night, we have an SEC winning streak started. If we continue to play with the intensity we've shown at times this season (UKan,Pitt,U.K.), and learn to CLOSE the deal, we'll be VERY happy come March '05. JMHO.

[Stockcock]

Galactus - Stockcock here. (AST down again and I found this by accident from the State's website)

We share much the same opinion about USC BB. Odom is a good coach - not great, but good. If he can find a really good big man (not necessarily 6'11") and some consistent outside shooting he might get us far enough into the NCAA to bring some recognition to the program. Thats really what we need.

Remember the SI Edition with John Roche on the cover?

I think we need to stick with Odom until he is ready to retire (if he keeps winning and runs a clean program) and then hire a young firebrand to take us to the next level.

[Galactus]

Hi, Stock! Good to see you here!

Yeah....I am not in any way advocating firing Dave or anything. At least not at this point. That would be crazy.

I'm just simply saying I am not optimistic when I see the recruiting reports. He's just not landing the SEC-type of material we need, and I fear that will be his undoing. We'll just have to wait and see on that.

Our guys play hard. You can't fault them for that. But at some point, talent is gonna take over. And that's where we are lacking in spots (mainly under the boards, as you correctly pointed out).

BTW....my dad still has that John Roche Sports Illustrated somewhere.

Fitting that the only athlete from USC ever to appear on an SI cover was associated with BASKETBALL. Not football.....and certainly not college baseball, which Sports Illustrated doesn't even know exists.

Dave,

I agree we're more athletic. Dave HAS gotten us a little better in that regard. We don't look like a bunch of oafs out there anymore (as we seemed to look for 20 years). But the blue chip talent that we face against most SEC opponents is what we are lacking. Give Odom the material to work with, and we could be pretty amazing.

Games such as the Clemson game wouldn't ever happen.....Teams with talent can have off nights and still pull out the victory.

[GamecockDave]

BTW....my dad still has that John Roche Sports Illustrated somewhere.

FWIW, I found a copy of this issue on E-bay last year. Cost me about $6, including postage.


Dave,

I agree we're more athletic. Dave HAS gotten us a little better in that regard. We don't look like a bunch of oafs out there anymore (as we seemed to look for 20 years).

I'm hoping this means the days of being the home for BDWG's is OVER!!


But the blue chip talent that we face against most SEC opponents is what we are lacking.

I agree that we need better talent, but if he can get us to The Dance 3-4 consecutive years, the talent will come. You gotta win some to get the really talented players.


Games such as the Clemson game wouldn't ever happen.....Teams with talent can have off nights and still pull out the victory.

Agreed. Gotta give Purnell credit. He's trying to make the same transition Odom's been working on at USC.

[Galactus]

Maybe the fact that PJ is leaving means he's realizing we have no need for BDWG's any longer!! LOL.... :p

[Stockcock]

I was thinking about the situation with Jared Cook (7'1" center from Kentucky whose HS coach would not permit a USC assistant to attend a practice and speak with him about visiting USC) and I wondered why Odom has not been able to find a Tim Duncan in 4 years at USC.

Two reasons: First, everybody is looking for another TD. With the good players jumping into the NBA, UK, UNC, Kansas, Duke, et all are doing what Odom did 10 years ago - before it was cool.

Second, who was the last player Odom put in the NBA that made a big splash? Rodney Rodgers, Tim Duncan - both over 10 years ago. Today's HS seniors don't remember that. Its like my dad used to say about politics; "its not what you've done for me, its what you have done for me lately."

[Galactus]

Sometimes we forget that, while to us, 10 years seems like nothing.....it's a LIFETIME to some of these kids today.

It's hard to imagine, until you think back to when you were 12 or 13 or even 17 years old. At that age, what happened 10 years previously seemed like AGES ago. But to me now, 1995 is like yesterday......Funny what age does to you!!

Yeah, that story from Kentucky really sucked. No wonder the status quo remains in place! No one wants the elite powers of college sports to ever fall, or give anyone else a chance!

I have no idea how.....but somehow, Odom has got to get us some beef under the boards.....They don't even have to necessarily be 7-0 goons.....But if we just had some muscle...some strength.....Wallace is a fine player, but he's not moving out anybody under the boards with those pipe-cleaner arms of his.....

Very tough to win in basketball without talent. That's true in everything, but I think it's doubly true in hoops.

[Le Coq Sportif]

Good thread, guys. Loved the BDWG comment.

FYI - I was at the game last Saturday night and was very impressed (well, after about 5 minutes into the game, that is)...but we have to remember that UGa really, really, really represents the dregs of the conference this year. They looked absolutely pitiful out there.

I'm interested to see what this team can do with the UF's, the MSU's, and (this year anyway) the Vandy's of the conference.

[raptorcox]

Just wait until we go to UF or MSU... I think this team plays good to bigger ranked teams, but don't get up for LSU or Clemson????

Maybe the LSU loss will get Odom to set fire to these kids???

[rabidcock]

I'll say it again as I have said early and often: if you have little or no inside game, you are totally dependent on your perimeter shooting. If you will recall, when we have shot well, we have won or been close (Kansas, Pitt, Kentucky). Good perimeter shooting is like a good passing game in football: it opens the inside lanes so Powell, et. al. can look good inside. Conversely, a good inside game boosts the confidence of your perimeter shooters; suddenly, in a tight game, all goes well. Without a dominant inside man (or, heaven forbid, two ), we will continue to live and die by our field goal%.

Does anyone remember the last time Tennessee was a power in basketball? [Can you say Ernie Grunfeld and Bernard KIng?]

Our question to Odum: "Where's the beef?" One can easily see that this team is athletic and in excellent shape, very well coached, etc. But even the mighty UCLA Bruins of the 70's (who won 9 of 10 national titles of an entire decade), who had great perimeter shooters, ALWAYS had a dominant big man (Walton, Alcindor, etc.).
Of course, he also had that third element: great penetrating guards (which has the same effect as a good inside man), but I digress; noone will ever see the likes of those teams again, with all three elements (thus the connotation: empire or dynasty).

As several of you have alluded to, recruiting will spell the fate of this coach's tenure and ultimate success or failure.

[Galactus]

Good analysis, rabidcock. I totally agree.

While 7-0 All Americans are hard to come by these days, there is not an excuse in the world for the University of South Carolina to be so lacking in beef under the boards. There is no reason why LSU or Alabama can recruit in basketball while we cannot.

I'm sorry.....but I'm tired of trying to be nice and fair about it. It's not going to happen under Odom. It never WAS going to happen under Odom. The excuses for him need to come to a halt.

Last season's NCAA appearance was a combination of a fluke....and a sorry schedule. And when we got in the tournament, we got waxed.

The only time we beat Clemson is when they are really, really bad. When the Tigers put together a decent team we choke up and fold. The Clemson loss was a harbinger of things to come. No way does a great or even good team lose a game like that — least of all to their arch rivals. I said then that it was over, but no one wanted to hear it.

I had hoped I was wrong. But the close losses to UK, KU and Pitt only, to me, solidified my feelings....And then we don't even show up vs. LSU?

[Stockcock]

I neither watched nor listened to last night's game. However, it appears to me that this might be the first game where Odom got out-coached. How does a 6'9" beanpole stop a 6'9" 315 lb center? (very carefully :D )

Actually you do it with quickness by getting him into foul trouble, double team, running him up and down the floor, etc., etc. ..... all of which are things USC usually does well. Letting a guy like that dominate with 28 points tells me it was in part a coaching - preparation error.

[Galactus]

Yeah. Besides...coaching will only go so far. When you lack the material to work with, eventually, it's gonna wear on you......no matter how great of a coach you are.

Let's be honest: John Wooden was a great coach, but he doesn't win all those championships without Gail Goodrich, Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton, Michael Warren, etc.

You could say the same things about Denny Crum, Coach K, Dean Smith, Bobby Knight, etc. Does Knight do undefeated in 1976 without Quinn Buckner? Maybe.....but more than likely....NO.

Yeah....recruiting at USC is tough....at least in the two major sports. But we hire a coach to solve that problem and improve the program. If it's not going to happen, we need to move on to someone who CAN solve the problem.

I'm willing to stick it out with Odom this season and see where we finish. But if we don't make the NCAAs, then Odom will have gotten us there ONCE in four seasons. Is that the frequency McGee wants? That WE want? And the cupboard was NOT totally bare when Odom arrived. As annoyed as I was with some of Fogler's recruiting, he did leave SOME talent on hand. All Odom needed to do was build off of it. It just hasn't happened.

And the players coming in next year are just more of the same, from everything I've read on Rivals and elsewhere. Just not looking good at all.....

[cocky4ever]

Yeah. Besides...coaching will only go so far. When you lack the material to work with, eventually, it's gonna wear on you......no matter how great of a coach you are.

Let's be honest: John Wooden was a great coach, but he doesn't win all those championships without Gail Goodrich, Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton, Michael Warren, etc.

You could say the same things about Denny Crum, Coach K, Dean Smith, Bobby Knight, etc. Does Knight do undefeated in 1976 without Quinn Buckner? Maybe.....but more than likely....NO.

Yeah....recruiting at USC is tough....at least in the two major sports. But we hire a coach to solve that problem and improve the program. If it's not going to happen, we need to move on to someone who CAN solve the problem.

I'm willing to stick it out with Odom this season and see where we finish. But if we don't make the NCAAs, then Odom will have gotten us there ONCE in four seasons. Is that the frequency McGee wants? That WE want? And the cupboard was NOT totally bare when Odom arrived. As annoyed as I was with some of Fogler's recruiting, he did leave SOME talent on hand. All Odom needed to do was build off of it. It just hasn't happened.

And the players coming in next year are just more of the same, from everything I've read on Rivals and elsewhere. Just not looking good at all.....
I agree with you that we should see where this season takes us and then see how we feel. With that said I must say that incosistency almost always comes down to the coaching. There is no reason why we should be able to lead the 2nd ranked team in the nation for almost the whole game and then get blown out by LSU. Thats like chumpson beating Miami in football and then losing to the Dukies. A coach is payed to get the best players possible and then get the most out of those players. I cant say that either one is being done consistently at USC in basketball right now.

[Demandbetter]

Well, after another frustrating football season, I usually look to my favorite sport — basketball — to cheer me up. However, even THAT is often denied to us Gamecock fans....as we seem eternally doomed to suffer in the two major sports.

So far, I'm not happy with Odom, I have to say. On other forums I'd get blasted for posting my honest opinions, but I'm hoping here for some intelligent and reasonable opinions. Struggles in games vs. South Florida, East Carolina and SC State....and a ridiculous loss to Clemson.....do NOT help to encourage me. I know we played Kansas close, but that's still an "L."

If you still have hope Odom will get it done in Columbia, why?

And if not, why?

Personally, I don't see it happening.

My biggest concern is recruiting. Odom continues to settle for JUCOs and "projects", and this gives me little hope for the future when I see even the football-oriented schools like Bama, Florida and MSU landing top notch talent while we continue to miss out. Basketball is a sport where TALENT is extremely important. And we have not recruited well, truthfully, since the McGuire days.

Odom's coaching is decent, but not good enough without the talent to execute.

Football is aggravating enough for us Gamecocks. Can't we at least build a winner in hoops? Seems like most schools have one of the big two sports to look forward to......but not us.





My opinion is...Dave Odom sucks and must go. Exactly what has he done here at USC except field the eqivilant of Lou'zer Holtz's bunch on the basketball court. These guys couldn't shoot 50% from the floor if their basket were 10 feet across. Odom only cares about defense and frankly, I'm sick of that philosopy.
For those of you who are going to throw the close losses to Kansas, Pittsburgh and Kentucky in my face I say this...they all ended up in the "L" column didn't they.

[USC_fanboy04]

Demandbetter while I understand your frustration with Lou Holtz at least show some respect and don't refer to him as "Lou'zer Holtz"...he was a great coach, at some time...lol

[JBryant12]

I agree with USC fanboy if it werent for lou holts we wouldnt have spurrier at the helm and we probably would never have one those back to back outback bowls

[Stockcock]

Back to Odom - one way to measure his performance is to compare him to the guy who replaced him at WF. OK, I'll grant you that SC was not on the same level as WF and the ACC so lets give Odom an extra year - maybe two. WF has been in the top 10 each of the last two years so SC ought to be there by next year.

[Galactus]

My opinion is...Dave Odom sucks and must go. Exactly what has he done here at USC except field the eqivilant of Lou'zer Holtz's bunch on the basketball court. These guys couldn't shoot 50% from the floor if their basket were 10 feet across. Odom only cares about defense and frankly, I'm sick of that philosopy.
For those of you who are going to throw the close losses to Kansas, Pittsburgh and Kentucky in my face I say this...they all ended up in the "L" column didn't they.

Agreed 100 %. Well put.

And our performance tonight vs. Tennessee is awful. Our basketball program is pathetic right now.

[Demandbetter]

Demandbetter while I understand your frustration with Lou Holtz at least show some respect and don't refer to him as "Lou'zer Holtz"...he was a great coach, at some time...lol


Yes he was a great coach a long, long time ago. The game has long since passed him by. Maybe if we had a time machine and could roll everything back to 1985 (or somewhere around there when Lou was in his prime) and still have him as coach at SC, my attitude would be different.
When you really look at it, Lou didn't really beat anyone of any significance in his tenure at SC. Yes he beat Ohio St. twice in the outback bowl but let's not forget that Ohio St. under John Cooper could not beat an SEC team period. I believe if they (Ohio St) had played Vandy in the Outback bowl they would have lost. The second time they beat Ohio St they were breaking in a new coach and Lou had his best team at SC.
I will admit Lou did more for SC than any previous coach but before you sing his praises too loudly, look at his record and who he actually beat while he was here.

[Stockcock]

SC has shot 50% for 5 games in a row. Thats the first time that feat has been accomplished since 1987. During that stretch they have dropped 2 of the last 3 games.

What a game tonight. If only we had 5 Carlos Powells.

I am not defending Odom, but he is the best of the last 3 coaches. (better than Felton, Newton and Fogler.) Could we do better - yes; but I don't agree Odom is a bad coach or that he sux.

I will say this .... WF clearly got the better deal with the coaching change. 32 out of 32 from the free-throw line and beat UNC by 13 pts. (Maybe we can get Skip Prosser when WF gets tired of him.)

[Drakeman]

Tonights game no doubt fell into the "win is a win column". It could've gone either way.

I really don't see us winning next Sat in Starkville, but I like our chances in the next game @ home vs Vandy.

We're 1 game off the mark of where I felt we needed to be at this point coming into the season & that's the Clemson game. As strange as it may sound, it's in our best interest for them to have a decent season now.

At 2-2 in league play there's still a chance for us to have a decent season. With the way our schedule looks right now I could see us splitting our next 4 games, then winning the following 2 (@ UGA & home vs Aub). That would make us 6-4 in league play & 14-7 overall. That would put us in a pretty good position to make the dance IMO. NIT would be a virtual lock.

Lots of ball left to be played. Way too much to cash it in on the season or Odom at this point.

Anybody wanna RR update? :p

[RW13]

I liked what I saw, if we can finish 9-7 this year in league play, we can make the big dance, with of course 2 wins in the SEC tourney, maybe it would take 3....

[Drakeman]

RW, I think any combo of 9 SEC wins gets us in. It'll be hard, but it can be done. Tonights win helps keep the prospects alive. :cool:

[Galactus]

Anybody wanna RR update? :p

I'd hate to see it. God, we are terrible.

Yeah....I know in some ways it may seem too early to cash in the season. But I'm saying it.....and the whole Gamecock nation can just go ahead and hate me for it and that's fine......Odom isn't getting it done. You know it. I know it. We all, deep down inside, know it. The recruits out there know it, too.

I said this at the beginning of last season, but Odom's surprise year made my comments seem wrong. I was hoping they were. But I don't think so.

Again....if there were any reason to hope for the future, I might feel differently. But Odom has nothing but bodies coming in next season.....None of these guys are anywhere near being ranked by position, much less the top 100.

We need a big man. So what does Odom do? He goes out and recruits a 6-11 guy, who is averging 4 pts. per game for his JUCO team....and doesn't qualify anyway!! Not exactly the kind of thing that gives you confidence.

OK....I'm done ranting.

For now.....
;)

[raptorcox]

I think Dave finds it hard to see the big guys, you know... look them in the eye.. since he is a short fella ;)

Maybe the new AD will grow impatient with Odom???

[Stockcock]

Naww - we don't hate you Gal. :D

I guess I just see Odom as sort of stepping stone. He may be the only way back to the top. If we can him it would be seen like Ole Miss canning Cutcliffe or Auburn trying to can Tuberville last year.

Odom won't win any championships with the caliber players he currently has or is bringing in, but I seriously doubt we will see another losing season out of him. Another couple of years and then maybe he will retire and Brad Edwards can find us a young hotshot who can recruit the AAU players.

[Le Coq Sportif]

Gal - You thought our game against UT was horrible?

I was there, man...and we looked far from "horrible"...we actually played really well in that game. You know UT just beat MSU, right? The Vols are very solid...excellent guards (the guy who took the last shot leads the NATION in 3 pointers)...and very good post players (Crump is MONEY inside the paint)...they'll compete with us and Vandy for 3rd in the east, and may even end up bumping us out of a tourney spot.

[Galactus]

Well, maybe UT is better than I think.

I watched us on TV and we just appear to have absolutely no options on offense. I'm just frustrated, I guess, by our lack of talent....and Odom's inability to change that.

I mean....we play hard and put forth a big effort. No doubt about that. But we just don't have the material to compete with the better teams night in and night out.

And the loss to LSU was just embarassing.

MSU got absolutely stomped by Alabama last night.....so I don't know how good MSU is.

But I guess we'll find out Saturday.....when WE have to face 'em in Starkville!!

Stock,

I think you hit on it with the AAU thing. The coaches we've had over the last decade just haven't really been able to make inroads into that new-fangled recruiting situation the AAU type of camps have created. That's what we need....

In any case, I don't seriously expect Odom to be fired or anything. At least not yet. Yes indeed....we are stuck with him. I don't think we'll get any worse....or any better.....until we have a coaching change, though.

[Stockcock]

Yep, thats pretty much how I see it Gal. He's not good enough to make much noise in the NCAAs - and recruiting, but he's not bad enough to get fired. We can only hope he will get lucky with recruiting and win some games he probably should not win.

I looked at our remaining 2005 schedule and I only see 6-8 games we can reasonably win. 18 wins puts us on the bubble. 16 wins puts us in the NIT unless we win 3 in the tourney.

We won't beat UK, Bama, UT or Florida at their place. We might be able to beat Vandy twice and UGa at Athens. Auburn is a toss-up as is MSU and we will probably split with Arkansas.

[Galactus]

Yeah....I agree with your analysis on those games. I think we do have Vandy's number, but I think we'll lose to them on the road.

Arkansas we actually only play once....fortunately in Columbia.

If we're on the bubble, I don't think we get in. Too many bad losses.......to Clemson and LSU....and no really impressive wins....will hurt us in the end.

I think we're gonna need either:

a) A big upset or too to help our RPI (not very likely)

b) A big run in the SEC tournament (not likely either.....we'd probably need to win the whole thing)

[Le Coq Sportif]

You guys are pretty much dead-on with me on our prospects for the rest of the season.

I see us pretty much sweeping the rest of our home slate, but probably losing 1 or 2 to UK or UF or UArk.

I don't expect to win any road games except for (maybe) UGa.

I think that leaves us at around 15-16 wins...not enough for a tourney bid, even with a run to the finals of the SEC-T. :(

[Drakeman]

Gal - You thought our game against UT was horrible?

I was there, man...and we looked far from "horrible"...we actually played really well in that game. You know UT just beat MSU, right? The Vols are very solid...excellent guards (the guy who took the last shot leads the NATION in 3 pointers)...and very good post players (Crump is MONEY inside the paint)...they'll compete with us and Vandy for 3rd in the east, and may even end up bumping us out of a tourney spot.

That's kinda the way I felt about it, but you know how it is. If we don't win by double digits it's the same thing as a loss. :D

As many have pointed out, what we're missing is a decent post player. Seems like Odom's been snakebit in that dept. For whatever reason he got shafted by Wingate & had to settle for "Paul Jones" who then transers out (no big loss). Then he gets a commit from what might have been at least a 1/2 ass big man only to find out the guy has "issues" according to his current coach. I don't think Odom was aware of this. Oh well, he's got 1 more scholly left so maybe he'll get someone other than a PJ type player this spring & then go back to the drawing board next fall.

The above is why I think Wingate made a big mistake not sticking with USC. I really feel he'd be a much bigger part of our team and developing at a quicker pace. I could see him starting for us this year and being another in-state favorite aka Powell, but instead he's coming off the bench in K'ville and avg only something like 4-5ppg. The physical tools are there. I also think we have a better coaching staff than UT.

I don't know the details, but in retrospect I think Wingate may have followed some bad advice from his HS coach in SC.

As for the rest of the season, I see us splitting our remaining games in the following fashion:

@ MSU- loss
Vandy- win
@ UF- loss
Ark- win
@ UGA- win
Auburn- win

*this is where it gets tough IMO*

UK- loss
@ 'Bama- loss
@ UT- loss
UF- loss
@ Vandy- win
Ole Miss- win

This puts us at 16-11, 8-8. IMO that alone wont be enough to get us into the dance. We'll need to win at least 1, possibly 2 SEC-T games to make it.

[Galactus]

Yeah.....I never understood Wingate going to UT. When a Ray Felton goes to UNC...you have to shake your head and just say, "well, it IS North Carolina."

But when you lose someone to Tennessee, in BASKETBALL.....well, then something weird is going on. Don't know what happened on that last recruiting trip he took to Knoxville, but something sure swayed him.

He would've been THE featured big man at USC, that's for sure.

I hear Odom is trying to grab some 7-footer guy from Kentucky......he's decent but not an elite-type of player....Naturally, the Cats have first dibs on him.

[Drakeman]

Gal, I really don't remember the details on what happened w/ Wingate. Didn't he moved to Ga to play his last year of hs ball?

I think it also coincided with what I consider the bottoming out of our program before it's surprise improvement & turn around. I'm sure guys like Wingate & Frederick looked @ USC a couple of years ago & were like "no way!".

Any of you folks that remember what happened w/ Wingate please chime in. I remember at the time it created a lot of resentment among the USC faithful.

IBC2?

[Le Coq Sportif]

Well, I do know that he has caught bloody h*ll everytime he's been in our arena since signing with UT. I've had the *pleasure* of sitting right beside the UT bench both of his games and our fans, mostly students, have been downright brutal.

And, I freely admit that I threw a few "Minor Wingates" his way myself. Hey, I got caught up in the moment. :)

[Drakeman]

Well, I do know that he has caught bloody h*ll everytime he's been in our arena since signing with UT. I've had the *pleasure* of sitting right beside the UT bench both of his games and our fans, mostly students, have been downright brutal.

And, I freely admit that I threw a few "Minor Wingates" his way myself. Hey, I got caught up in the moment. :)

Dude, you're going to have to tell me exactly where you sit! I've got tapes of last years & this years home games. Tell me where to look & what to look for & I'll try to spot you. :cool:

[Galactus]

I'm not sure of the details, either.

Maybe he did move for his senior year, but I don't remember that.

In any case, I DO remember that he looked like a lock for us at one point...and then things fell apart.

Then again, Stanley Roberts and Jermaine O'Neal looked like "locks" for us at one time, too. Thus is the fate of major sports at USC, I guess.

[IBC2]

yep, he moved in his Sr yr. There was a lot going on, and I think all of us know what goes on with Tn when they have a recruit they want.

Commenting on Odum is like talking about Santa Claus. The dude does enough good that you don't dare complain about the raindeer poop all over the roof.

Odom is perfect for most USC fans. He will be at best decent and USC fans are conditioned to settle for less than the very best. We accept the idea that there are teams we should lose to. We are happy if we can make the tourney "some" of the time.
Odom will never be bad enough that anyone can make legitimate argument for getting rid of him.As someone posted, you can't fire guy with winning record.
He will have teams that finish 3rd or 4th in SEC each yr and that will satisfy a lot of fans. He will get to NCAA 2 or 3 times every 5 yrs so that will make more happyness in gamecock land. He won't win more than one NCAA game in those trips but hey we got there!

The problem is he is never going to make USC a team that SI will proclaim #1 team in country in their preseason mag. He won't take us to final 4 or even sweeet 16. He will not get the top recruits to come here.
He won't win SEC, which Fogler did do( for those who think Odom is better)
He is a nice guy who will run clean program that will be avg at best.
The man is coaching his last school, he ain't going anywhere but retirement, so the fire you need to get to top may not be there.

What I hope for is his keeping us from doldrums for next 3-4 yrs till he retires, and then the new AD will do whatever it takes to get someone who has the ability, the fire, the desire, whatever, to take us to next level. A SS type coach. We need someone who will go out and outwork everyone and bring in some talent.

I do not buy the idea that we have to win before we can get players. That just doesn't fly with me.
A coach who is willing to sell out totally his time to go after the best possible, and convince them that building something special is better than being someone who just manages to keep a tradition intact is the kind of coach we need. One who wants this job so bad he can taste it, he dreams it, he covets it. And there are some young hungry guys like that out there.
When Dave retires we need to go get one

Till then, be content with being a so so avg or little better than avg team cause thats what Dave brings to table.

Its what he did at Wake, he got to NCAA's a lot of yrs on the ACC reputation,not really on teams merit.

This yrs team won't go to dance.The SEC is down and we ain't very good.
We won't finish better than .500 and that is a stretch doing that well

[IBC2]

short comment on this yrs team
We have no presence inside, we have no offense vs zone, we can't shoot free throws, we don't rebound well, and if we don't shoot from outside well we ain't got no offense at all vs any defense.

Our offensive game plan is a mystery. We don't set picks well, we don't move well without ball, we don't pass well vs zone.

But when we press, get turnovers, shoot well,..........we ain't too bad then

[Le Coq Sportif]

Dude, you're going to have to tell me exactly where you sit! I've got tapes of last years & this years home games. Tell me where to look & what to look for & I'll try to spot you. :cool:

Well, in 2003 we were sitting on the front row right on the end of the UT bench. It's kinda like a "corner" seat because it doesn't face full-on either the baseline or the sideline. We had a good time at this game harassing the UT bench, though I remember we weren't on TV a whole lot.

Last Sattidy, we were to the left of the basket, kinda directly on the other side of the basket from "baseline Jesus" We were on the tube quite a bit in this game and you can see us get pretty rowdy towards the refs and the UT benches on several occasions. I know I was having a heckuvalot of fun at Buzz Petersen's expense. :D

[Stockcock]

Here's our schedule:

Sat 01/22/2005 Mississippi St (FSN/SUN) Starkville, MS 6:00 pm = Loss
Wed 01/26/2005 Vanderbilt (JP) Columbia, S.C. 8:00 pm = Win
Sat 01/29/2005 Florida (JP) Gainesville, FL 1:00 pm = Loss
Wed 02/02/2005 Arkansas Columbia, S.C. 7:30 pm= Win
Sat 02/05/2005 Georgia Athens, GA 4:00 PM= Win
Sat 02/12/2005 Auburn Columbia, S.C. 7:30 pm= Win
Tue 02/15/2005 Kentucky (ESPN) Columbia, S.C. 9:00 pm= Loss
Sat 02/19/2005 Alabama (JP) Tuscaloosa, AL 3:00 pm= Loss
Wed 02/23/2005 Tennessee Knoxville, TN 7:30 pm= Loss
Sun 02/27/2005 Florida (CBS) Columbia, S.C. 2:00 pm= Win (wishful thinking!!)
Wed 03/02/2005 Vanderbilt Nashville, TN 8:00 pm= Win
Sun 03/06/2005 Mississippi Columbia, S.C. 2:00 pm=Win

Thu 03/10/2005 SEC Tournament Atlanta, GA TBA= 1 win

That equals 8 wins at the most. We could easily get beaten by Florida at home and lose to Vandy in Nashville. We might also trip up and lose to UGa. If this team wins 8 more games then Odom will have done a dang good job.

[Galactus]

IBC,

That is pretty much a dead-on analysis of Odom, as far as I'm concerned. You're right about a lot of USC fans being "conditioned" a certain way....almost as if they're afraid of success in football or basketball. I guess baseball feels "safe" to them becuase it doesn't generate a lot of national attention....I dunno.

Also agree with you for not buying into the idea we have to win first to attract recruits. Yes, winning would help....but somehow Florida, MSU and Alabama started attracting big name recruits.....and those schools aren't exactly known for basketball. Auburn and Cliff Ellis had a huge season with a talented roster a few years ago. Georgia had landed top recruits....even as bad as they currently are.

Bottom line is that when Frank McGuire arrived in Columbia things were even worse. Yet he found a way to get it done in the toughest conference in America.

Yes, things are different than what they were in the late 1960s.......but there are too many examples of successful football and basketball programs out there (especially basketball) that tell me there's NO REASON why it can't happen at USC.

You're right: Spurrier's ATTITUDE is his best attribute....and that's the attitude we need from the basketball coach. If Odom can't give us that, we need to move on.

Stock,

If we were halfway worth a toot, that schedule really wouldn't be so daunting. But as it is, finding wins on that slate is tough. I see us pulling one upset.....but also probably losing one we shouldn't at home (Vandy?).

[IBC2]

Gal, we have basically agreed on bball from get go.
(except for Cremins and we ain't too far apart on that)
From the time I was inside the basketball program on I have had quite a turn around in my views.
Of course I am also a heritic(sp?) who liked Fogler Didn't want him to stay but understood what was going on whick most fans don't or don't want to.

I hope we get rid of the "lost the ones we were supposed to, and won the wons we were supposed to" attitude. That will go a long way

[Galactus]

Yeah....I guess you shouldn't ever feel you are "supposed" to lose.

The attitude from the new A.D. (whoever it is) may be a big key to our future.

Well, Tennessee beat Florida last night....so I guess that gives more credibility to our win over UT.

But how did we get blown out by LSU? And lose to Clempson??

Seems the only constant in this league, is, as usual, Kentucky.

Last night, even when they were down 29-12 early, I knew they would win. They have that confidence every other SEC team seems to lack.

[DENTSVILLECOCK]

I hate to admit it, but Oliver Purnell will turn things around in Clemson basketball :(


He will make them better than they have been.

But that will be hidden by the fact that all the other ACC teams will still be a lot better than Clemson has ever been. ;)

Wassup guys?

Tried to give me the slip huh? :p

[Galactus]

Welcome, Dents!

[Stockcock]

He will make them better than they have been.

But that will be hidden by the fact that all the other ACC teams will still be a lot better than Clemson has ever been. ;)

Wassup guys?

Tried to give me the slip huh? :p

Dang it ---- you found us. :D

Somebody needs to let the other guys know where we are. It doesn't look like AST will be back up anytime soon. MC, King Ward, Tay, Tin, USCnAtlanta need to come on over here - at least temporarily. Do you know any of their emails?

[DENTSVILLECOCK]

I can reach Mutha and Tay but not the others.

I'll bet Mutha can.

[King Ward]

Well, I found you boys, too, thanks to a little help. I want to see AST make a comeback; but his doesn't look too shabby to me. Great features on this board, also.

[dudeman0501]

Well, I found you boys, too, thanks to a little help. I want to see AST make a comeback; but his doesn't look too shabby to me. Great features on this board, also.

Welcome to SEC Talk, King. If you ever need anything, shoot me a PM.

[Galactus]

Well, I found you boys, too, thanks to a little help. I want to see AST make a comeback; but his doesn't look too shabby to me. Great features on this board, also.

What I like here King is that there is plenty of interaction with fans of other schools.....without any nonsense. Kinda nice.

And welcome, BTW!! :)

[QuackDaddy]

Well, I found you boys, too, thanks to a little help. I want to see AST make a comeback; but his doesn't look too shabby to me. Great features on this board, also.
Nice to see familiar names from AST.

The AST folks know me as LCKK or LowCountryKatKicker.

Most other places I am known as Quackdaddy because I love to hunt ducks almost as much as I love my gamecocks.

Hi fellas, nice to see ya! I like what I have seen of this place so far.

I think Odom is capable of heading us in the right direction, I just hope he can get us to the top of the ladder.

[Neo]

Nice to see familiar names from AST.

The AST folks know me as LCKK or LowCountryKatKicker.

Most other places I am known as Quackdaddy because I love to hunt ducks almost as much as I love my gamecocks.

Hi fellas, nice to see ya! I like what I have seen of this place so far.

I think Odom is capable of heading us in the right direction, I just hope he can get us to the top of the ladder.

Welcome to SECTalk Quack! If you ever need anything, feel free to PM me. :D

[rabidcock]

Welcome AST guys-------to CIVILization!