View Full Version : The Legalization Of Drugs. Yes or No?
How does everyone feel about that? Is it a moral issue or is it common sense? Here's some really thought provoking tidbits. I will go ahead and warn you I am a registered Libertarian and all of the facts and studies support the conclusion of the legalization of narcotics.
Legalization Will Drive The Crime Rate Down.
Syndicated columnist Abigail Van Buren endorses Legalization. She wrote in her column, "Dear Abby," that, "The legalization of drugs would put drug dealers out of business."She added that it would also reduce the prison population and create a perpetual source of tax revenue.
Former Surgeon General Elders told a National Press Club luncheon,"Sixty percent of violent crimes are drug- or alcohol-related.... Many times they're robbing, stealing and all of these things to get money to buy drugs.... I do feel that we would markedly reduce our crime rate if drugs were legalized."
Professor Steven Duke told an America Online computer network audience, "Without a doubt, the problem of violent crime would be ameliorated . I think drug prohibition causes half of our serious crime."
Rep. Barney Frank (D-Ma.) supports legalization. "We make a mistake, with the serious law enforcement problems we have today, to get the police to arrest people who smoke marijuana.... We are wasting $10 billion a year trying to physically interdict drugs."
The new president of the American Bar Association, George Bushnell, favors legalizing marijuana and cocaine. He believes legalization will cut crime.
[B]Legalization Makes Economic Sense
Baltimore Mayor Kurt Schmoke believes drugs can be a revenue source for the government. "Remove the profit motive, and you put the dealers out of business overnight... have government stores and buy marijuana cigarettes... nicely wrapped, purity and potency guaranteed with a tax stamp."
Ethan Nadelmann, a former Princeton University professor and now director of the Lindesmith Center, states: "Make sure that junkies have access to clean needles; make it easy for addicts to obtain methadone; give heroin-maintenance programs a chance to work; decriminalize marijuana; stop spending billions on incarcerating drug users and drug dealers. We know we can reduce drug abuse more effectively by spending that money on education, pre and post natal care and job-training programs."
Nadelmann told the Rolling Stone audience, "...The Pentagon's interdiction efforts, which cost U.S. taxpayers close to $1 billion... had no impact on the flow of drugs.... [The] drug war has been most efficient at filling up the country's prisons and jails."
Criminalization Of Drugs Is Like Alcohol Prohibition.
Conservative columnist William F. Buckley, Jr., writes that the"...New York Bar in 1986 advocated the repeal of all federal legislation dealing with drugs, leaving it to the states to write their own policies. This will remind you of the 21st Amendment: when prohibition was repealed in 1933, each state was left free to write its own liquor laws."
Lindesmith Institute director Nadelmann argues that "Prohibition...financed the rise of organized crime, prostitution and failed miserably as social policy. Likewise, the war on drugs has created new, well-financed, and violent criminal conspiracies and failed to achieve any of its goals."
Other Nations Have Successfully Legalized Drugs.
Mr. Nadelmann points to foreign nations when he writes, "We can learn much from Europe and Australia, where governments have turned their backs on the 'war on drugs.' They began by accepting the obvious: that it is both futile and dangerous to try to create a drug-free society."
Dr. John Marks of Liverpool, England promotes Great Britain's"enlightened" drug programs. "The results are zero drug-related deaths, zero HIV infection among injecting drug takers, a... reduction of... 96 percent [in] acquisitive crime. And perhaps most puzzling of all, a fall in the incidence of addiction, among the public at large of... 92 percent."
The fact is, this government (State/Federal) spends 40 billion a year on a war that cannot be won. Every year 1.6 million people are arrested on drug charges. For example, a non-violent cocaine user is facing 5-10 years in prison. Do you think he will be rehabilitated after being incarcerated with murderers, rapists, etc, etc for 5-10 years? I don't think so. When he gets out, he is going to commit more serious crimes. Statistics prove this is a fact.
A study by the RAND Corporation shows that every dollar spent on treatment of drug abuse instead of imprisonment saves $7 in state costs. Treatment is significantly more effective at reducing drug use than jail and prison. I believe the most cost-effective way to deal with nonviolent drug users would be to stop prosecuting them, and instead to make an effective spectrum of treatment services available to those who request it. By decriminalizing drug use, there would be less fear to seek help for your addiction. Currently, if you are a drug user, you can be proscuted, lose your job and be labeled even if you come to authorites admitting you have a problem.
At the turn of the century, both heroin and aspirin were legally available and sold for approximately the same amount. Today aspirin can be purchased at the corner drug store for 20 cents per gram; heroin costs $50 per gram. The price of heroin rose drastically after it was made illegal due to the dangers involved in its sale. Dealers are willing to kill each other for profits obtained from such a lucrative market; junkies are willing to rob and kill for money to support their habit--money, if drugs were legal and cheap, that they could easily obtain by working at McDonald's. You and I, through high crime rates caused by the War on Drugs and high tax rates used to support the War on Drugs, pay the price. During prohibition "liquor store" owners murdered each other to protect their turf just as drug dealers do today. Today, liquor store owners are generally peaceful. Eliminating the enormous profits involved in black-market businesses eliminates the motive for violent crime, and therefore the violent crime.
More law enforcement is commonly touted as the answer to America's violent crime problem. Since 1970 the percentage of the American population in prison has tripled with no noticeable effect on the homicide rate. More than 1.3 million citizens are now in jail. The United States has a larger percentage of its population in prison than any other nation, and still maintains the highest homicide rate in the industralized world. We have even thrown away parts of our constitution in the name of fighting crime. Asset forfeiture laws allow law enforcement officers to seize the property of American citizens without even charging them with a crime, even though the 5th amendment to the constitution clearly states "No person shall be...deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law..." Of course if you want your property back you do have the right to post a bond and try to prove yourself innocent, of a crime you have not even been charged with, in a court of law. an attorney will be provided for you if you cannot afford one. Over $2.4 billion worth of assets have been seized since 1985, $664 million in 1991 alone--and in 80% of the cases no charges were ever filed.
The growing list of people who support decriminalization of drugs in America include: William F. Buckley, George Carlin, George Crockett, Alan Dershowitz, Phil Donahue, Hugh Downs, Milton Friedman, Ira Glasser, Michael Kinsley, David Letterman, John McLaughlin, Andy Rooney, Carl Sagan, Kurt Schmoke, Tom Selleck, George Shultz, George Silver, Tom Snyder, Robert Sweet, Thomas Szasz, Garry Trudeau, Neal Boortz, and Donald Trump.
If you want more information go to: http://www.lp.org/or http://www.boortz.com
legalize marijuana only, regulate it and tax it, that way the hippies and gangstas can lower my income/sales taxes....
legalize marijuana only, regulate it and tax it, that way the hippies and gangstas can lower my income/sales taxes....
LOL!!! Seriously, I support the legalization of all narcotics. The war on drugs is just a modern day prohibition. Which didn't work by the way.
Hardie
12-20-2004, 11:32 AM
Yeah I agree with RW there. Just legalize Pot and treat it like the government treats tobacco. Yanno have the warning labels , the taxes so on and so forth. It would definately help out with the law enforcement aspects of things and it would generate new revenue and help pull the country out of debt.
Yeah I agree with RW there. Just legalize Pot and treat it like the government treats tobacco. Yanno have the warning labels , the taxes so on and so forth. It would definately help out with the law enforcement aspects of things and it would generate new revenue and help pull the country out of debt.
Not just that. If you read the post closely, you would realize that according to statistics, this country spends 40 BILLION a year on the war. Which is expected to climb to 80 Billion by 2006. Did you know that the government only spends 163 million on treatment and education about drugs.
40 billion / 163 million hmmmmmm
If you want to put the dealers out of business overnight, legalize it. You wanna end drug related deaths over territories and tainted drugs? Legalize it. The reason so many people die from narcotic use is substances added to the drugs. If you were to go buy some smack from a dude on the street, do you know exactly what you are getting? Nope!
If you legalized it you would have more people come out and admit they have a problem and seek help. Under our current system, even if you admit you have a problem and need help, you can be charged, incarcarated and lose your job. By legalizing it, you take the fear outta people wanting help.
Alcohol and related deaths outnumber the drug users/deaths 10 fold and that has been proven.
yep, legalization would end alot of the problems associated with the drug trade, the violence, sneaking around, etc.., it would definately help out financially(the country) if we legalized it...
yep, legalization would end alot of the problems associated with the drug trade, the violence, sneaking around, etc.., it would definately help out financially(the country) if we legalized it...
History proves that prohibition created the mob, (Capone, etc, etc) prostutition, etc etc. Prohibition put these crime lords in these positions of power.
If I were a heroin addict, I would much rather go to CVS Pharmacy and get it than some thug on the street.
One thing I forgot, if you legalize drugs, it would reduce HIV/AIDS infections by 35% the first year.
yeah, definately the positives outweigh the negatives
Volnooga
12-20-2004, 02:25 PM
Just think if all the money used to keep drug users in jail was used for education programs and getting the addicted the help they really need?!?!
But how can you seperate pot? All drug crimes are victimless crime, aka Crimes against society. A government creating a law to stop you the citizen from ingesting drugs is a government trying force it's morals and ethics on you. Isn't that why this country was started in the first place? Here are the benfits as I see them:
Saved Taxpayers Money
Reduced Healthcare costs - (Who needs to buy xanex and valium if they can grow marijuana?
Reduced OD Rates - Drugs made in a lab are typically much cleaner than those made in 55 gallon drums by men with no teeth, not to mention the purity of the chemicals used.
More Money for the education of today's youth
Instead of throwing users in jail, those that are truley addicted can get the help they need without fear of jail tme or loss of job.
this are just a ramdom few off the top of my head, I know there are several more...
Boy do I come up with the controversial topics! LOL!
Everybody needs to come and vote! Let their voice be heard!
dudeman0501
12-20-2004, 04:53 PM
I added a poll to this thread (thanks DeLorean!).
Vote and voice.
I agree with the Vol fan who posted on page 1, oustanding points he brings up, they have sort of have tried this in Australia, instead of people shooting up in the streets and causing problems the government put up buildings where the junkies could shoot up safely and not hurt anyone as well as not get arrested....
Volnooga
12-21-2004, 08:24 AM
Controversial? It's 3 for, 0 against. That's 100%. That's Anti-controversial
Controversial? It's 3 for, 0 against. That's 100%. That's Anti-controversial
A lot of people don't like it because of the "moral" issue behind it. Granted, I was reared Catholic and I think they should be legalized.
allaboutavol
12-21-2004, 09:24 AM
I have an idea! Lets get everyone stoned out of their minds and give them car keys! See how many people they can kill. Why not its legal. Its readily avalible, so no one has to hide it now. No more sneaking around. The government makes (more) a buck and the cost of doritos goes up because everyone in the free world has the munchies.
Sounds like a plan to me.
I have an idea! Lets get everyone stoned out of their minds and give them car keys! See how many people they can kill. Why not its legal. Its readily avalible, so no one has to hide it now. No more sneaking around. The government makes (more) a buck and the cost of doritos goes up because everyone in the free world has the munchies.
Sounds like a plan to me.
All,
The government does it with alcohol & tobacco and those kill more people each year than drugs have since their inception. Why are drugs so much worse?
The Prohibition of Alcohol is what created the mob, prostutition, illegal gambling and various other crime syndicates. When you make something illegal, the demand for it SKYROCKETS and so does the profits. If you really wanna put these drug pushers outta business overnight, you have to legalize it. The mark-up on dope alone is 500%. Government studies have shown that narcotics can be manufactured for practically nothing. That's why you have people robbing and murdering other people for drug money. It's soooo expensive. At least if you buy it at a pharmacy, you know what you are getting. Let government regulate it like they do alcohol and tobacco.
It's the "tainted" drugs that kill people. It's the drugs made in a rusted steel bucket in some dudes basement that's killing people. If you were to buy it legally, you would get the purest form of the narcotic. You know what people have to do to make methamphetamines out of their home? Does any of these chemicals sound familiar?
Turpentine
Acetone
Bleach
Kerosene
Those are ingredients that are used on the black market to make home made methamphetamines AKA Crystal Meth.
Studies have been shown and proven that if you legalize narcotics, your serious crime rate will drop by more than 30% in the first year along with a 35% drop in HIV/AIDS cases in the first year.
The war on drugs is a war that we can never win.
allaboutavol
12-21-2004, 01:18 PM
You know what Del, I am not saying you are wrong, you have some awesome points, and while I may not like it, you are probabally mostly correct. My problem lies mainly with when and if these drugs become legal it will send our children the message that they are now ok. That they are no longer bad and the years I personally have spent trying to teach my kids to say no, will be flushed down the toilet, I mean, don't get me wrong, I totally see your good points, and I agree with that, I just see the bad too. It could be personal, drugs have affected my life and my children's lives, so its a sore spot with me.
You know what Del, I am not saying you are wrong, you have some awesome points, and while I may not like it, you are probabally mostly correct. My problem lies mainly with when and if these drugs become legal it will send our children the message that they are now ok. That they are no longer bad and the years I personally have spent trying to teach my kids to say no, will be flushed down the toilet, I mean, don't get me wrong, I totally see your good points, and I agree with that, I just see the bad too. It could be personal, drugs have affected my life and my children's lives, so its a sore spot with me.
I wish I could say that I knew how you feel, but I won't. I'm not going to insult you by pretending to know. One thing parents can do is still teach kids that drugs are bad even if they are legalized. We teach kids not to smoke now don't we? I know I do. Treat it the same way.
Exactly, there are plenty of things that are legal that are very dangerous, it's all about making good decisions, I think if you are a reasonable person then just b/c the gov't legalizes something doesn't mean you'll go out and do it, ppl need to think for themselves and I think most ppl do....
Exactly, there are plenty of things that are legal that are very dangerous, it's all about making good decisions, I think if you are a reasonable person then just b/c the gov't legalizes something doesn't mean you'll go out and do it, ppl need to think for themselves and I think most ppl do....
It's all about personal responsibility. It's my responsibility as a parent to teach my kids right from wrong regardless of the legality. It's kinda like the issue with prostutiton. Why is it illegal to sell sex when it's perfectly legal to give it away?
These are serious questions that I think about when the power goes out. :) Putting all jokes aside for the moment, think about that.
As a parent, I'm scared what could happen to my little girl all the time. What she may do, or try, or say. That's where the "Mom and/or Dad" come in. I believe that your job as a parent is to show your kids the right way and occasionaly help them up when they slip. Let your child make mistakes, they will learn just as you have and you cannot shield your kids from everything in this world. That's a battle of futility. Education is your number 1 tool and weapon.
Nothing is going to change in this country unless people start doing what they don't want to do and that is to think. The more "PC" we get, the worse off we are becoming.
rabidcock
12-22-2004, 09:18 AM
I've always advocated legalization for all the reasons mentioned and more.
By diverting the money saved on this and other government follies, we could easily balance the budget, as well as provide a way to repair the damage done by "borrowing" from Social Security, thus guaranteeing the overwhelming glut of future seniors that the trust they placed in the govt. for the money they have saved will not be in vain.
I've always advocated legalization for all the reasons mentioned and more.
By diverting the money saved on this and other government follies, we could easily balance the budget, as well as provide a way to repair the damage done by "borrowing" from Social Security, thus guaranteeing the overwhelming glut of future seniors that the trust they placed in the govt. for the money they have saved will not be in vain.
Spoken like a true prodigy. LOL
Yes, the key to succeeding in life in any aspect whether it be yourself or your children or whatever is communication and education(I don't mean school). The more you find out and know about things, i.e. facts, the better you are in making rational, good decisions instead of decisions/opinions based on fear and "this is your brain on drugs" commercials.....
Yes, the key to succeeding in life in any aspect whether it be yourself or your children or whatever is communication and education(I don't mean school). The more you find out and know about things, i.e. facts, the better you are in making rational, good decisions instead of decisions/opinions based on fear and "this is your brain on drugs" commercials.....
You made a valid point there. I didn't even think about those stupid commercials. I chose not to use drugs when I was younger because I made a rational decision. Those commercials didn't prevent me from using drugs. The scare tactic rarely works.
Anyone else care to comment and vote????
cocky4ever
12-26-2004, 07:25 PM
Anyone else care to comment and vote????
I say that anything that can be grown in the Earth should be legal to possess. Give people weed, mushrooms, peyote and opium. The money saved and made from taxing these products could help our economy, which, by the way, greatly needs it now. These substances have been used for centuries by cultures. This will never happen though. Once people have something like this they will not give it up easily. Look at where prohibition got us. People drank just as much and the mobs took over the business in a very violent way, making money and strengthening their organizations. This is whats going on every day with drugs. To legalize these drugs would probably have the same type of effect as ending prohibtion did. It would put the profit back into the US economy and help lessen the amount of violence surrounding these substances. This wont happen though. This country is not moving progressively forward but is heading full speed backwards. The balance between the right and left wings is so uneven that we are moving toward a dictatorship. China's gonna win it all.
Jordan
12-27-2004, 01:52 AM
I vote "no" for "legalizing illegal drugs" under the assumption that you meant ALL illegal drugs. There are just some things that need to stay illegal. Yes, most illegal drugs have SOME purpose in the medical world, and I feel that they should be legal for medical usage. For "fun" / personal usage though, things like heroine, morphine, oxycontin, cocaine, etc should remain illegal. These drugs are highly addictive and are the leading cause of most drug-related deaths.
The only drug that has ANY possibility of being legalized is marijuana. Not only does it serve great purposes in the medical world, such as increasing the appetite of cancer patients who are on chemo treatments.... but it also has no worse harmful effects than drinking alcohol or smoking cigarettes, and is also no more addictive.
volimhtown
12-28-2004, 02:14 PM
I definitely vote "FOR" legalizing drugs for all of the afore mentioned reasons!! In response to the concerns that ALLBOUT brought up, legalizing it has no bearing on your responsibilities as a parent. (and yes, I have 2 beautiful daughters) If anything, maybe that would finally get parents more involved in raising their kids and teaching them the dangers of the world we live in. As it is now, many parents treat issues like this as "a dirty little secret" and don't address the dangers of drugs. The fact remains that the MAJORITY of us have all experimented with some sort of illegal substance at one time or another. Did the fact that it was illegal actually stop or keep anyone from trying it?? Absolutely not!! What is the danger in legalizing drugs?? Those who desire to use drugs already do. It's not like there's going to be a mass exodus of people running out and doing all kinds of drugs just because they are legal. Maybe a small percentage initially, but legalizing drugs is not going to change anyone's perception of the dangers of them. The fact is, the reward FAR outweighs the risk!!
cocky4ever
12-28-2004, 03:04 PM
I definitely vote "FOR" legalizing drugs for all of the afore mentioned reasons!! In response to the concerns that ALLBOUT brought up, legalizing it has no bearing on your responsibilities as a parent. (and yes, I have 2 beautiful daughters) If anything, maybe that would finally get parents more involved in raising their kids and teaching them the dangers of the world we live in. As it is now, many parents treat issues like this as "a dirty little secret" and don't address the dangers of drugs. The fact remains that the MAJORITY of us have all experimented with some sort of illegal substance at one time or another. Did the fact that it was illegal actually stop or keep anyone from trying it?? Absolutely not!! What is the danger in legalizing drugs?? Those who desire to use drugs already do. It's not like there's going to be a mass exodus of people running out and doing all kinds of drugs just because they are legal. Maybe a small percentage initially, but legalizing drugs is not going to change anyone's perception of the dangers of them. The fact is, the reward FAR outweighs the risk!!
Heres another interesting point. How can the govt. tell people that they cant use these drugs because they are too dangerous while at the same time pumping billions of dollars into these pharmaceutical companies? A lot of drugs made by these companies are just as, if not more, dangerous than illegal drugs and we dont know all of the effects of them yet.Oxycotin is basically govt. issued heroin. It makes no sense.
Jordan
12-28-2004, 11:31 PM
Oxycotin is basically govt. issued heroin. It makes no sense.
But come on..... Oxycontin is meant to be time-released over a specified time period. The coating on the pills slowly releases the medicine over 12 hours, 24 hours, etc. The people who are OD'ing on Oxycontin are the idiots who think it is okay to melt off the time-release coating, or crush the pill into powder, or melt it down and inject it, etc, etc, etc.
The same applies for people that are sucking time-release morphine patches or other time-release prescription drugs. These people are not taking into account that this medicine is meant to be released usually over a 24-hour period, and they are INSTANTLY getting all 24-hour's worth of the medicine into their system at one time. Some people have even been known to take 2 or 3 or more doses at one time, which is like 3 or 4 days worth of the medicine all at one single instance. That's just ridiculous.
Since I was a freshman in high school about 9 years ago, I have known almost a dozen people who have either OD'ed and died or OD'ed and gone into a coma when trying to "experiment" with time-release medications, especially Oxycontin. None of these people were aware of the TRUE nature of the medicines or how they were supposed to be taken.
I really wish that instead of all of the current "Say no to drugs" programs that are going on for kids over the past 20 or so years, that schools and communities would just accept the fact that a majority of teenagers are going to try at least one drug sometime in their growing up. People should stress to kids that Yes, drugs are bad and you shouldn't do them..... BUT, if you do wind up trying a drug, here are the things you need to know to keep from making a fatal mistake. Teach kids that drugs like Oxycontin are meant to be released over a long time period, and that by altering the pill you are really taking multiple days' worth of the drug into your system in an instant.
There are always going to be kids and teenagers that are stupid and do/try stupid things, but they should really be informed of the true implications of the drugs instead of the simple "you should never take drugs" messages that are taught right now.
cocky4ever
12-29-2004, 07:39 AM
But come on..... Oxycontin is meant to be time-released over a specified time period. The coating on the pills slowly releases the medicine over 12 hours, 24 hours, etc. The people who are OD'ing on Oxycontin are the idiots who think it is okay to melt off the time-release coating, or crush the pill into powder, or melt it down and inject it, etc, etc, etc.
The same applies for people that are sucking time-release morphine patches or other time-release prescription drugs. These people are not taking into account that this medicine is meant to be released usually over a 24-hour period, and they are INSTANTLY getting all 24-hour's worth of the medicine into their system at one time. Some people have even been known to take 2 or 3 or more doses at one time, which is like 3 or 4 days worth of the medicine all at one single instance. That's just ridiculous.
Since I was a freshman in high school about 9 years ago, I have known almost a dozen people who have either OD'ed and died or OD'ed and gone into a coma when trying to "experiment" with time-release medications, especially Oxycontin. None of these people were aware of the TRUE nature of the medicines or how they were supposed to be taken.
I really wish that instead of all of the current "Say no to drugs" programs that are going on for kids over the past 20 or so years, that schools and communities would just accept the fact that a majority of teenagers are going to try at least one drug sometime in their growing up. People should stress to kids that Yes, drugs are bad and you shouldn't do them..... BUT, if you do wind up trying a drug, here are the things you need to know to keep from making a fatal mistake. Teach kids that drugs like Oxycontin are meant to be released over a long time period, and that by altering the pill you are really taking multiple days' worth of the drug into your system in an instant.
There are always going to be kids and teenagers that are stupid and do/try stupid things, but they should really be informed of the true implications of the drugs instead of the simple "you should never take drugs" messages that are taught right now.
I agree that education can help the problem before it can start. I have also known many people who's lives were very negatively affected by drugs and many of those people were affected by oxycontin. By saying that Oc's are govt. issued heroin I was in no way justifying the use of this drug by people who don't need it. However, I am saying that I dont think the govt. is doing everything in their power to make sure it only ends up in the hands of people who really need it. The problem starts with the govt. and their regulations. Next in line is the pharmeceutical companies who don't really care how their drugs affect people but only want the money. Then its the doctors who over prescribe these medications for the wrong reasons. Then its the dealers, then finally the users. This drug is so addictive that to stop taking it after you've done it for a long time will cause you have to flu-like and food poinsoning symptoms at the same time. Thats why its called a disease. Addiction is a disease. What do you do to stop the spread of disease? Like you said, education would at least help on the lower end. Fixing things as far as the govt., pharmaceutical companies, and irresponsible doctors, well thats a different story.
rebeldude
01-01-2005, 04:44 PM
yeah, definately the positives outweigh the negatives
Do You Guys not know what a problem we have in this country with drunk driving and the loss of Innocent life it causes, Ok Legalize drugs and triple the DUI problem. Boy that's a positive.
TigerFanatic
01-01-2005, 05:32 PM
i'm not gonna say much on this cause it is a topic that i am very emotional about. i've lost a very dear friend from an accident caused by pot. he was hit by a car driven by people who were, you guessed it, high.
the problem with legalizing drugs is that people are NOT responsible enough to handle abusing said drugs. if i had it my way alcohol would be illegal also. if everyone could be trusted to sit home and safely enjoy their crack, or pot, then hey, lets go for it, but the problem arrises in that they can't. they get drunk, they get high, they get stoned, jacked up, whatever, and people get hurt. point blank.
i don't care what the economic, PC, or rights benifits are, it people people in danger to themselves, and others.
and yea, i know there are plenty of other ways for people to endanger themselves and others.
rebeldude
01-03-2005, 09:04 AM
i'm not gonna say much on this cause it is a topic that i am very emotional about. i've lost a very dear friend from an accident caused by pot. he was hit by a car driven by people who were, you guessed it, high.
the problem with legalizing drugs is that people are NOT responsible enough to handle abusing said drugs. if i had it my way alcohol would be illegal also. if everyone could be trusted to sit home and safely enjoy their crack, or pot, then hey, lets go for it, but the problem arrises in that they can't. they get drunk, they get high, they get stoned, jacked up, whatever, and people get hurt. point blank.
i don't care what the economic, PC, or rights benifits are, it people people in danger to themselves, and others.
and yea, i know there are plenty of other ways for people to endanger themselves and others.
Very well put tiger!!
I say let's make McDonald's illegal too.....
I say let's make McDonald's illegal too.....
Don't forget candy and sugar.
Candy & sugar causes obesity and that creates diabetes, heart disease, etc etc.
After this past week, we definately need to outlaw Tsunamis....., they kill too many people...
After this past week, we definately need to outlaw Tsunamis....., they kill too many people...
I've got it.
Criminalize automobiles.
They kill more people every year than anything!
rebeldude
01-03-2005, 12:46 PM
I say let's make McDonald's illegal too.....
they ought to, the taste is enough to kill
rebeldude
01-03-2005, 12:47 PM
I've got it.
Criminalize automobiles.
They kill more people every year than anything!
NOT!!!!!!!!!
they ought to, the taste is enough to kill
LOL! :D :p :D
NOT!!!!!!!!!
They do kill more people than anything else Rebel. That would end drunk driving, reckless driving, etc, etc.
rebeldude
01-03-2005, 12:50 PM
They do kill more people than anything else Rebel. That would end drunk driving, reckless driving, etc, etc.
Yea, guess your right, but actually the automobile doesn't kill anyone, its the person behind the wheel driving the auto that kills.
Yea, guess your right, but actually the automobile doesn't kill anyone, its the person behind the wheel driving the auto that kills.
The automobile is a contributing factor.
See you were worried about people "getting high" and then getting behind the wheel and killing someone. Well, we have people doing that now even when they are sober.
See what I'm saying? Let's get to the root of the problem and criminalize the automobile.
If we legalize drugs, we just need to enforce the laws better. We don't need new ones. For example;
In NC if you are charged with a DUI (1st Offense):
Automatic License suspension for 2 years.
Possible jail term up to 18 months.
Make a first time offender;
Automatic license suspension for 10 years.
Two years in jail. (Automatic)
If we made those mandatory, you would see the drunks getting off of the street in a heartbeat. The most you get in most states for a DUI on average is a suspended license for 1 year and community service.
It's not weed killing people or alcohol, it's the people using them, just like you said. It all comes down to personal responsibility, and holding people accountable for their actions, not copping out and blaming the "drugs" and stuff like that.
If you kill someone because of a DUI, forget this manslaughter crap. Charge them with murder.
Manslaughter = Murder with the absence of malice.
You obviously intended malice by getting behind the wheel after taking a few shots of Jack in my eyes.
It's not weed killing people or alcohol, it's the people using them, just like you said. It all comes down to personal responsibility, and holding people accountable for their actions, not copping out and blaming the "drugs" and stuff like that.
Well said.
Personal responsibility is what it boils down to. It's kinda like how we have parents blaming the movie industry because of THEIR kids behavior.
rebeldude
01-03-2005, 01:15 PM
You guys are right about increasing the penalties, but you know dang good and well that aint gonna happen, the penalties for dui are so messed up now it is a joke. Do you think people stop driving because their licenses have been suspended, Heck no! Does everyone have insurance? Heck no!. Do people drink/smoke and drive without a license Heck yea! Increasing the penalties for DUI will not stop people from driving under the influence. You have to control the substance if that is possible. Don't legalize dope.
rebeldude
01-03-2005, 01:18 PM
There's to many quick fix rehabs to convict someone for a long period of time for vehicular homicide. According to the authorities.
put them to death, don't legalize "dopes".....
put them to death, don't legalize "dopes".....
Speaking of which RW, did you see those quotes I posted?
which quotes?
Political Quote in the Politics section of the Water Fountain.
SeattleGamecocks
01-06-2005, 03:47 PM
I definitely agree w/ legalizing drugs. We waste too many resources on it.
I definitely agree w/ legalizing drugs. We waste too many resources on it.
Ditto that chief!!! :)
rebeldude
01-16-2005, 04:52 PM
I definitely agree w/ legalizing drugs. We waste too many resources on it.
Oh absolutely, out biggest resource, our kids.
carolinavol
01-16-2005, 05:52 PM
Del, great topic. I fully agree with you that the 'drug wars' are a failure. Further, I am pretty conservative guy, I certainly would fall under the 'law and order' conservative mold for the most part. I also personally do not use, nor have used any streetdrugs. But I don't see any reason for most modern day political conservatives, or moderates to support these drug laws. The drug laws are primarily responsible for a bloated government, wastes an absolutely ridiculous amount of taxpayer dollars, as well as gives government a free pass to regulate behavior of American's that doesn't in anyway violate the rights of another. The arguments that are utilized to maintain the laws are simply not good ones in my opinion.
Many citizens associate other streetcrimes such as burglary, robbery, etc. etc., with drug use, and see the drug laws as another way of keeping 'bad people' off of the street. It is the criminalisation of these drugs that causes a lot of these crimes, and if these laws werent on the books, Cops would be more free to patrol and to get back to their real jobs, of 'serving and protecting', rather than trying to catch a couple of college aged kids running around with a little pot. So, the junkies who continue to rob and steal, etc, would be the biggest losers in this, because there would be more police patrolling and investigating them with the time saved from chasing people who are violating no person, but rather a government imposed doctrine.
Some argue the driving point, but I don't support the repeal of DUI/DWI laws, just the repeal of simple usage and possession laws, with regulated distribution.
Others argue the kids scare, kids scare being that when members of the government cannot justify any reason to impose an overreaching law that they want for whatever reason, they argue, 'its to protect the kids'. Ask any High School aged kid whats harder to get their hands on, pot or beer? Most will tell you Pot, thus the notion that a regulated yet legal drug market will cause 12 year olds to all run around like junkies is simply wrong, but rather the reverse is true, to truly keep kids away from drugs, get rid of the black market and allow for respectable and law abiding citizens to engage in business by distributing those drugs. Trust me, the cops wont have to chase the dirty dealers then, the legitimate businesses that are invested in the trade will be after them, and they will gladly turn these guys in for free.
So their really is no rational argument that allowing for legalisation will violate the rights of citizens more than is already present.
carolinavol
01-16-2005, 05:56 PM
Further, once it gets down to the crux of the argument, it is simply on this question; should the government have the right to regulate the behavior of citizens that isn't required in order to protect the rights of an individual? The same philosophy that allows for government to raise taxes, indoctrinate our kids with liberal propaganda, and generally have the government as a control freak rather than the limited form that our founders intended, is the philosophy that allows for the government to legalise drugs. Thats why in my opinion that most modern day conservatives would support legalisation if they were able to know the hard facts and underlying philosophies, as well as the benefits surround legalisation.
USC66
02-09-2005, 11:13 PM
I haven't seen this posted yet so correct me if I'm wrong.
The real reason Marijuana is not legal is because of MONEY. Yeah, I know tell you something new right?
The hemp stem is one of the strongest fibers in the world. Much stronger than cotton. If they legalized it, it would practically put the cotton industry out of buisness. We could wear jeans and shirts that would last over 100 years. What would this do to the cotton industry?
Hemp is also one of the best producers of pulp. That's right, pulp. Instead of cutting down all the trees, we could read about all the trees we are saving by making paper from the pulp in hemp. What would this do to the timber industry?
How about all the money that is made from confiscating possesions?
If you want to know why it's not legal, then look to see who stands to lose the most money if they legalized it.
I personally think they should be legal.
fernandomike
02-14-2005, 06:07 PM
The war on drugs is a farce. Putting addicts in jail for nothing more than possession is immoral. In general, I believe that you as an adult own your body. Government should be very hesitant to enact laws that override this ownership.
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