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Expansion - A Story That Won't Die

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#16
Crimson Kicker8

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West:
LSU
Texas A&M
Missouri
Arkansas

Central:
Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
MSU

East:
Florida
Florida State
Georgia
South Carolina

North:
Tennessee
Kentucky
Vanderbilt
Virginia Tech

Play 3 division games, 2-3 protected rival games in other divisions, and 2-3 rotating games in other divisions.

Edited by Crimson Kicker8, 21 November 2012 - 11:59 PM.

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#17
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View PostNeo, on 21 November 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:

It's going to happen people regardless. This is the landscape of college football now. I will say though that this is being caused by all those "playoff blohard moonbats" that kept whining about a playoff. Well, with the super-conferences coming, I hope you're happy...

I'm not anti-playoff per say, but I am a pro-bowl person. There is a lot of tradition and history with the bowl games and I would be hopeless without them. As for the BCS, I liked the ORIGINAL BCS formula. You know? The one that factored in MOV, QW, SOS, ect, etc. Not this watered down/santitized version.

Do I think the 4-Team BCS Championship is a good thing? Yes to an extent. It maintains the bowls and as long as that's done, I'm good to go.

Carry on.

Super conferences have absolutely nothing to do with a playoff, none.  They're all to do about opening up new TV markets and money.

Having a playoff also does absolutely nothing to diminish bowls, nothing.

Don't go borrowing trouble, my friend.
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#18
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View PostCrimson Kicker8, on 21 November 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

Super conferences have absolutely nothing to do with a playoff, none.  They're all to do about opening up new TV markets and money.

Having a playoff also does absolutely nothing to diminish bowls, nothing.

Don't go borrowing trouble, my friend.


Wha....?

Keep telling yourself that Crimson.....  That's what these mega conferences were all about. They're built of a premise of instituting a playoff.

http://www.businessi...-12-2012-5?op=1

http://www.forbes.co...playoff-system/

http://bleacherrepor...-playoff-system


Having a full fledged playoff DOES destroy the history and tradition of the bowls.
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#19
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View PostCrimson Kicker8, on 21 November 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

Super conferences have absolutely nothing to do with a playoff, none.  They're all to do about opening up new TV markets and money. Having a playoff also does absolutely nothing to diminish bowls, nothing.


Per Forbes Magazine...

College Football Super Conferences Can Pave Path to Postseason Playoff System

Patrick Rishe, Contributor
I cover the economics of the sports industry.

Over the weekend it seemed a certainty that at least Texas A&M was going to join the Southeastern Conference.
While that move has been temporarily delayed and though many decry the numerous conference shifts that have taken place in recent memory, I submit that the best chance to see a postseason playoff system in college football is through the creation of “super-conferences”.

Those of you who have followed my writings (e.g. the Boise Banter piece as well as the Gordon Gee piece) certainly know where I stand concerning a college football playoff system.  But the rekindled spirit of conference realignment set in motion last summer has led me to further contemplate how “super-conferences” could mesh with an 8-team playoff structure.
Details behind the vision:

Assign A College Football Commissioner
Tony Barnhart from CBS Sportsline hit the nail on the head.  College football drives the financial bus of college athletics.  As the most important sport financially, it needs a leader that can work collaboratively with conference and school officials.  Someone with the business savvy to maximize revenue potentials that exist from impending realignment, yet someone with enough common sense to encourage geographically reasonable realignment to the extent that it’s possible.  Which will still not be perfect under the super-conference structure.

Super-Conferences Can Be Football Specific
Super-conference designations need not apply to all sports.  They could just apply to football.  After all, there are numerous examples presently where schools belong to one conference in a select sport but are full-time conference members in another conference in all other sports.  This could minimize the chaos of massive restructuring while maintaining long-standing rivalries in the Olympic sports as well as college basketball.  The commercial success of men’s college basketball is already taken care of with March Madness, so why apply any potential super-conference designations to that or any other sport.

http://www.forbes.co...playoff-system/
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#20
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View PostMatt, on 21 November 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

That really would dilute an already pretty weak conference.  Once you get passed Texas, OU, OkSt and KSU who would you expect to field a top 25 team every year?
They didn't want to dilute the conference, but aTm and Missouri bolted and they brought in TCU from the WAC and West Virginia from the Big East. They were the 2 best teams they could find. Then they saw 3 teams jump from Conference USA,and 2 from Mountain West,  to the BigEast. If U-H and SMU would have been patient for just 1 more year they would have probably would have been invited  into the BIG12. It is all about the revenue, recruiting, market share, Conf champ game, playoff and bowl games. The more teams in your Conference the more money you make, the more games you have on TV.
Now they wanna start a search for 6 more teams by 2014 and avoid some schools paying big exit fee's by giving notice.
The Big East saw this coming and installed the $50 Million dollar buyout fee. The Big East was just trying to save their conference from being ravaged by other conferences.
It all depends on who wants to come to the BIG12 and make it the Big16.
Other teams will be filling spots in the new WAC/Conference USA and Mountain West, the Big East losing 2 teams( Rutgers,Maryland) and gaining 5(UH, SMU, Boise State, San Diego State, & UCF)
BIG10, WAC, Conference USA, Mountain West and Big East will all look different in 2013. Pretty sure the BIG12 will look different too.

Edited by aTm 82, 22 November 2012 - 12:14 AM.


#21
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View PostaTm 82, on 22 November 2012 - 12:12 AM, said:

They didn't want to dilute the conference, but aTm and Missouri bolted and they brought in TCU from the WAC and West Virginia from the Big East. They were the 2 best teams they could find. Then they saw 3 teams jump from Conference USA,and 2 from Mountain West,  to the BigEast. If U-H and SMU would have been patient for just 1 more year they would have probably would have been invited  into the BIG12. It is all about the revenue, recruiting, market share, Conf champ game, playoff and bowl games. The more teams in your Conference the more money you make, the more games you have on TV.
Now they wanna start a search for 6 more teams by 2014 and avoid some schools paying big exit fee's by giving notice.
The Big East saw this coming and installed the $50 Million dollar buyout fee. The Big East was just trying to save their conference from being ravaged by other conferences.
It all depends on who wants to come to the BIG12 and make it the Big16.
Other teams will be filling spots in the new WAC/Conference USA and Mountain West, the Big East losing 2 teams( Rutgers,Maryland) and gaining 5(UH, SMU, Boise State, San Diego State, & UCF)
BIG10, WAC, Conference USA, Mountain West and Big East will all look different in 2013. Pretty sure the BIG12 will look different too.
I think some of the schools, especially the ones out west are going to back out on the BigEast.  They have an argument that the conference they agreed to join, due to the loss of Rutgers, does not exist.  It probably will come down on which side had better lawyers and contingencies in their side of the contract but I bet Boise doesn't end up in the BigEast and if the BigXII wants the Texas schools they can probably still get them.

#22
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View PostCrimson Kicker8, on 21 November 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

West:
LSU
Texas A&M
Missouri
Arkansas

Central:
Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
MSU

East:
Florida
Florida State
Georgia
South Carolina

North:
Tennessee
Kentucky
Vanderbilt
Virginia Tech

Play 3 division games, 2-3 protected rival games in other divisions, and 2-3 rotating games in other divisions.

In that scenario how do we determine the conference champ?

Edited by cocky4ever, 22 November 2012 - 04:32 AM.


#23
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View Postcocky4ever, on 22 November 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

In that scenario how do we determine the conference champ?

one of 2 ways

1 - highest seed vs lowest seed & 2 middle seeds play for the right to go to Atlanta - 2 highest seeds get a bonus home game

2 - 2 highest seeds go to Atlanta straight up

it's really a no brainer

for that matter, we REALLY do not need divisions - why not just have 3 or 4 "rivalry games" and rotate the rest of the conference? take the 2 best teams at years end and call it a day?
They don't think it be like it is, but it do!


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#24
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View PostNeo, on 22 November 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

But the rekindled spirit of conference realignment set in motion last summer has led me to further contemplate how “super-conferences” could mesh with an 8-team playoff structure.

This was an op-ed illustrating how super conferences COULD be used within a playoff system.  It did nothing to illustrate how super conferences were the motive for a playoff system.  The true motive I illustrated still stands.
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View Postcocky4ever, on 22 November 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

In that scenario how do we determine the conference champ?
That's a very good question and I'm still mulling over that.  Most years, I'd say that two of the divisional winners would separate themselves as the championship contenders based on outright conferences records.  If there are three or more leaders then it gets hairy.  Some of the existing SEC tie breaker rules might have to come in play sooner than they do under the current formant.
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#26
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View PostCrimson Kicker8, on 22 November 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

This was an op-ed illustrating how super conferences COULD be used within a playoff system.  It did nothing to illustrate how super conferences were the motive for a playoff system.  The true motive I illustrated still stands.


I noticed that you completely ignored the other links that were provided that back up my assertion that these "mega-conferences" are the beginning of a playoff. Here isone of the stories that I linked that uses critical thinking and reasoning to assert that the "mega-conferences" are being instituted as a stepping stone to a playoff and eventually, abolishing the bowl games. This article was posted in May of this year and so far, he has been "spot-on" with some of his predictions.

The Future Of College Football: Playoffs, 16-Team Super Conferences And Notre Dame Joining A Conference


Major changes to the college football landscape got underway in 2010 when we found out Utah and Colorado would be going to the Pac-12 and Nebraska was on its way to the Big Ten.

There have been more shakeups since, with Syracuse and Pittsburgh headed to the ACC, and both the Big 12 and Big East adding some new members as well.

Then came news of a four-team college football playoff beginning in 2014. This is merely the beginning, though.

Further expansion to reach 16-team super conferences, more playoff games, and tons and tons of money all await. (We can thank Florida State's recent flirtation with the Big 12 for starting it back up.)

We've looked at where things stand right now and taken some educated guesses to provide you with what college football may look like in a few years. (Note: we don't think this has ANY chance of happening over night, however.)


Florida State's move to the Big 12 will start the next wave of conference expansion

Ignore all the backpedaling from administrators. Like Texas A&M and Missouri last year, all Florida State needed to do was plant a seed regarding its discontent with the ACC. That part is done.

An FSU-Big 12 marriage makes perfect sense for both parties, and would start off the domino effect once again.

The Big 12 wouldn't stay put at 11 schools, though, so bringing along a Clemson, Miami, Louisville, or all of the above is also likely.


The Big Ten will improve its recruiting base by expanding south and inviting Duke, Georgia Tech, and Maryland

Sure the Big Ten really likes its current setup, but there's no denying where the country's best high school football is concentrated: the South.

Since raiding the SEC or prying Texas away from the Big 12 are not options, the Big Ten will stick to its current formula of great academic institutions with wide fan bases by inviting three major southern schools: Duke, Georgia Tech, and Maryland.


The SEC will become the first 16-team super conference by adding Virginia Tech and North Carolina

Not one to be left behind, the SEC will look at the major ACC schools and add two new states to its TV foot print: Virginia and North Carolina.

Virginia Tech and UNC will make the SEC the first super conference and give it a shot at making $1 billion in TV money.


These moves will force Notre Dame to finally join a conference as a member of the...


Big Ten.

In its never-ending quest to match the SEC blow for blow, the Big Ten becomes the second conference to reach 16 members.

Notre Dame joins Duke, Georgia Tech, and Maryland as part of the new foursome.

UND is obsessed with its independence, but with larger conferences leading to fewer out-of-conference games it's no longer as advantageous as it used to be.


The Pac-12 has no schools remotely close by to add, so it stays put

It's funny to think that a potential Pac-16 made up of a bunch of Texas and Oklahoma schools is what got the ball rolling a few years ago, yet it never came to fruition.

Like the current Big Ten, the Pac-12 loves the way things are. But unlike the Big Ten, it has no logical area to expand to.

Even suggesting a Boise State and/or BYU addition is ludicrous, so the Pac-12 remains a 12-team conference


The Big Four (Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12) enter a weird new era of cooperation now that they have no where else to expand.

The haves and have nots of college football will be even more clearly-defined than they currently are with all of these major changes.

Like the recently-announced Big 12-SEC bowl partnership, the four major conferences will come to big agreements regarding the postseason, increased stipends for student-athletes, and more.


The ACC and Big East will be left on life support, forcing them to band together for mere survival.

UConn, Cincinnati, Rutgers, Syracuse, and whatever else is left of the Big East and ACC will for all intents and purposes be discarded.

These two conferences are already considered the weak links in major college football, but with a greater concentration of power things will only get worse for the left overs.


Big TV money and fan excitement will make a college football playoff expand from 4 to 8 teams

Just wait until the major TV networks start fighting for rights to the four-team playoff set to begin during the 2014 season.

Conference commissioners, university presidents, and athletic directors will fall in love with this new revenue stream and want more of it.

We're not saying a 16-team playoff field is completely out of the question, but they'll tinker with eight for a while before getting there.

Another result of TV money? The Big Four will each have their own network as well.


Traditional bowl games will slowly begin to die off

That SEC-Big 12 postseason partnership we mentioned earlier was just the beginning.

The giant success of a college football playoff and not having to adhere to the ridiculous conditions created by third parties, i.e. bowls and their dumb ticket sale requirements, will result in fewer and fewer bowl games.

Throw in rumblings of raising the minimum number of wins required to qualify for a bowl game from six to seven and there doesn't seem to be too much life left in this old system.

It won't die off completely, though. It'll survive in the same way the NIT has in college hoops. Plus, all those MAC and Sun Belt schools need something to do in December.


ALL the power house schools will have their own regional television networks

Texas has one.

Notre Dame will only join a conference if it can do the same (the Big Ten or anyone else would allow it in lieu of their currently exclusive NBC deal).

And schools like Ohio State, Florida, Alabama, Oklahoma, and Georgia could also launch successful TV ventures.

As far as live game programming goes, these networks would carry what's called third-tier games: those that conferences don't televise nationally and already allow individual schools to decide on how to broadcast them.


Coaches' salaries will hit $10 million

Coaching in major college football is a very cut throat, high stakes endeavor filled with giant pay checks.

All the shakeups will only intensify things, resulting in even bigger payouts for the men in charge.

The highest paid coaches currently earn just north of $5 million, expect it to double once everything is said and done.




http://www.businessi...-12-2012-5?op=1

Edited by Neo, 22 November 2012 - 08:56 AM.

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#27
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View PostCrimson Kicker8, on 21 November 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

West:
LSU
Texas A&M
Missouri
Arkansas

Central:
Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
MSU

East:
Florida
Florida State
Georgia
South Carolina

North:
Tennessee
Kentucky
Vanderbilt
Virginia Tech

Play 3 division games, 2-3 protected rival games in other divisions, and 2-3 rotating games in other divisions.
If that were the case, who would Mizzou's rivals be? Mizzou would already be in the same division as A&M and Arkansas who are the only ones that make sense for a rival. I hope that we would get Vandy and Kentucky.
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View PostMizzou_Fan, on 22 November 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:


If that were the case, who would Mizzou's rivals be? Mizzou would already be in the same division as A&M and Arkansas who are the only ones that make sense for a rival. I hope that we would get Vandy and Kentucky.

I bet you would. Hahaha! We all would.
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#29
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View Postcocky4ever, on 22 November 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

In that scenario how do we determine the conference champ?
I think that the best way would just be conference record then record against each other and just keep going down the tiebreakers from there.
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View PostNeo, on 22 November 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

I noticed that you completely ignored the other links that were provided that back up my assertion that these "mega-conferences" are the beginning of a playoff. Here isone of the stories that I linked that uses critical thinking and reasoning to assert that the "mega-conferences" are being instituted as a stepping stone to a playoff and eventually, abolishing the bowl games. This article was posted in May of this year and so far, he has been "spot-on" with some of his predictions.

The Future Of College Football: Playoffs, 16-Team Super Conferences And Notre Dame Joining A Conference


Major changes to the college football landscape got underway in 2010 when we found out Utah and Colorado would be going to the Pac-12 and Nebraska was on its way to the Big Ten.

There have been more shakeups since, with Syracuse and Pittsburgh headed to the ACC, and both the Big 12 and Big East adding some new members as well.

Then came news of a four-team college football playoff beginning in 2014. This is merely the beginning, though.

Further expansion to reach 16-team super conferences, more playoff games, and tons and tons of money all await. (We can thank Florida State's recent flirtation with the Big 12 for starting it back up.)

We've looked at where things stand right now and taken some educated guesses to provide you with what college football may look like in a few years. (Note: we don't think this has ANY chance of happening over night, however.)


Florida State's move to the Big 12 will start the next wave of conference expansion

Ignore all the backpedaling from administrators. Like Texas A&M and Missouri last year, all Florida State needed to do was plant a seed regarding its discontent with the ACC. That part is done.

An FSU-Big 12 marriage makes perfect sense for both parties, and would start off the domino effect once again.

The Big 12 wouldn't stay put at 11 schools, though, so bringing along a Clemson, Miami, Louisville, or all of the above is also likely.


The Big Ten will improve its recruiting base by expanding south and inviting Duke, Georgia Tech, and Maryland

Sure the Big Ten really likes its current setup, but there's no denying where the country's best high school football is concentrated: the South.

Since raiding the SEC or prying Texas away from the Big 12 are not options, the Big Ten will stick to its current formula of great academic institutions with wide fan bases by inviting three major southern schools: Duke, Georgia Tech, and Maryland.


The SEC will become the first 16-team super conference by adding Virginia Tech and North Carolina

Not one to be left behind, the SEC will look at the major ACC schools and add two new states to its TV foot print: Virginia and North Carolina.

Virginia Tech and UNC will make the SEC the first super conference and give it a shot at making $1 billion in TV money.


These moves will force Notre Dame to finally join a conference as a member of the...


Big Ten.

In its never-ending quest to match the SEC blow for blow, the Big Ten becomes the second conference to reach 16 members.

Notre Dame joins Duke, Georgia Tech, and Maryland as part of the new foursome.

UND is obsessed with its independence, but with larger conferences leading to fewer out-of-conference games it's no longer as advantageous as it used to be.


The Pac-12 has no schools remotely close by to add, so it stays put

It's funny to think that a potential Pac-16 made up of a bunch of Texas and Oklahoma schools is what got the ball rolling a few years ago, yet it never came to fruition.

Like the current Big Ten, the Pac-12 loves the way things are. But unlike the Big Ten, it has no logical area to expand to.

Even suggesting a Boise State and/or BYU addition is ludicrous, so the Pac-12 remains a 12-team conference


The Big Four (Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12) enter a weird new era of cooperation now that they have no where else to expand.

The haves and have nots of college football will be even more clearly-defined than they currently are with all of these major changes.

Like the recently-announced Big 12-SEC bowl partnership, the four major conferences will come to big agreements regarding the postseason, increased stipends for student-athletes, and more.


The ACC and Big East will be left on life support, forcing them to band together for mere survival.

UConn, Cincinnati, Rutgers, Syracuse, and whatever else is left of the Big East and ACC will for all intents and purposes be discarded.

These two conferences are already considered the weak links in major college football, but with a greater concentration of power things will only get worse for the left overs.


Big TV money and fan excitement will make a college football playoff expand from 4 to 8 teams

Just wait until the major TV networks start fighting for rights to the four-team playoff set to begin during the 2014 season.

Conference commissioners, university presidents, and athletic directors will fall in love with this new revenue stream and want more of it.

We're not saying a 16-team playoff field is completely out of the question, but they'll tinker with eight for a while before getting there.

Another result of TV money? The Big Four will each have their own network as well.


Traditional bowl games will slowly begin to die off

That SEC-Big 12 postseason partnership we mentioned earlier was just the beginning.

The giant success of a college football playoff and not having to adhere to the ridiculous conditions created by third parties, i.e. bowls and their dumb ticket sale requirements, will result in fewer and fewer bowl games.

Throw in rumblings of raising the minimum number of wins required to qualify for a bowl game from six to seven and there doesn't seem to be too much life left in this old system.

It won't die off completely, though. It'll survive in the same way the NIT has in college hoops. Plus, all those MAC and Sun Belt schools need something to do in December.


ALL the power house schools will have their own regional television networks

Texas has one.

Notre Dame will only join a conference if it can do the same (the Big Ten or anyone else would allow it in lieu of their currently exclusive NBC deal).

And schools like Ohio State, Florida, Alabama, Oklahoma, and Georgia could also launch successful TV ventures.

As far as live game programming goes, these networks would carry what's called third-tier games: those that conferences don't televise nationally and already allow individual schools to decide on how to broadcast them.


Coaches' salaries will hit $10 million

Coaching in major college football is a very cut throat, high stakes endeavor filled with giant pay checks.

All the shakeups will only intensify things, resulting in even bigger payouts for the men in charge.

The highest paid coaches currently earn just north of $5 million, expect it to double once everything is said and done.




http://www.businessi...-12-2012-5?op=1

^ THIS is very interesting & pretty much along the lines of what I am thinking.

The big question is which, if any, ACC schools get left in the cold. Wake Forrest seems to be the odd man out/big loser here. OR NC State. My feeling is that UNC and Duke will be a package deal.

The Big East schools are talking about having a vote to dissolve the league - http://collegebasket...issolve-league/

I also think that Louisville gets left at the alter (there are just too many "better" schools out there).
They don't think it be like it is, but it do!


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