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[UAdan]

Dawgy_Style, on 24 January 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

wish we could have found a way to keep Prado for 3rd, I'm not sold on Francisco.

I'm not either, but that's why adding Chris Johnson to the package sorta makes me okay with it. Even if Francisco bombs, Johnson has proven himself to be serviceable. Had a good year in 2010 and a pretty solid 2012. Juan will at least hit homers for us occasionally, and Johnson could be a lesser version of Prado in terms of what he'll bring to the offense as far as hitting for average.

[UAdan]

Neil Caudle is Superman, on 24 January 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

1. Who will be the Braves' clubhouse leader now? Huddy is a pitcher and he may be gone after this season. McCann will almost certainly be gone after this season. Who is going to step up and tell people to play hard?

2. Will our team work ethic suffer? Both B.J. and Justin Upton have been said to have poor work ethic during the course of their careers. Will this rub off on Heyward, who seemed complacent in 2011, and Freeman?

3. Will Justin Upton the guy who hit .300 with 26 HR's and 20 SB's in 2009 and .289 with 31 HR's and 21 SB's in 2011 or will he be the guy who hit .273 with 17 HR's and 18 SB's in 2010 and .280 with 17 HR's and 18 SB's in 2012? If he is the former then we have ourselves an amazing outfield. If he's the latter then he's not much better than Prado.

4. Will having brothers on the same team bring out the best in each of them or will it bring out the worst in them? I could see that going either way. I played on the same high school baseball team as my cousin all four years and we enjoyed it a lot, but I know some people who get nasty when playing sports with family members.

Great thoughts NCIS, love the discussion. Out of the four questions you posed, the only ones I'm concerned about are 3 and possibly 1.

1. It's a fair question. Huddy, obviously. The guy that comes to mind to me has to be Dan Uggla. I know he's at times downright brutal on offense, but he's suddenly the real veteran of the lineup and he DOES have a strong work ethic. If he could be less "lead by example" and be more of the kind of guy to get in people's faces when they screw up, it would really benefit us. I don't think anybody would want to make Dan mad...

Other vets include Reed Johnson and Gerald Laird. I knew nothing about Laird until a few weeks ago when I saw a video that said he was one of the best clubhouse pranksters on the Tigers and is great at keeping the environment loose, so maybe he'll sorta take on Rossy's role.

2. I think this is blown out of proportion and it sorta frustrates me to see people still saying this. There is no evidence whatsoever that Justin Upton has ever had an attitude problem aside from pure fan speculation, and BJ Upton has had I think only 1 or 2 isolated incidents. I really do think they'll be fine here and I think being around other young guys like Heyward and Freeman will help.

3. This is the one I'm most worried about, because you never can tell for sure. I *think* he'll do well here, but it's not a given he's going to put up the All-Star type of numbers we're fantasizing about. He can be good, not great, and in that instance I think many of us would be disappointed.

4. With as much as they've talked about playing together, I can't fathom why this would be a problem and I would hope that it'd bring out the best in both of them, but again, seems more like speculation than a legitimate concern.

[GoldenRebel]

[StallingsBaldSpot]

GoldenRebel, on 24 January 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

haha awesome!

It took me a second to understand that you had to sing it to really get it

[Neil Caudle is Superman]

UAdan, on 24 January 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Great thoughts NCIS, love the discussion. Out of the four questions you posed, the only ones I'm concerned about are 3 and possibly 1.

1. It's a fair question. Huddy, obviously. The guy that comes to mind to me has to be Dan Uggla. I know he's at times downright brutal on offense, but he's suddenly the real veteran of the lineup and he DOES have a strong work ethic. If he could be less "lead by example" and be more of the kind of guy to get in people's faces when they screw up, it would really benefit us. I don't think anybody would want to make Dan mad...

Other vets include Reed Johnson and Gerald Laird. I knew nothing about Laird until a few weeks ago when I saw a video that said he was one of the best clubhouse pranksters on the Tigers and is great at keeping the environment loose, so maybe he'll sorta take on Rossy's role.

2. I think this is blown out of proportion and it sorta frustrates me to see people still saying this. There is no evidence whatsoever that Justin Upton has ever had an attitude problem aside from pure fan speculation, and BJ Upton has had I think only 1 or 2 isolated incidents. I really do think they'll be fine here and I think being around other young guys like Heyward and Freeman will help.

3. This is the one I'm most worried about, because you never can tell for sure. I *think* he'll do well here, but it's not a given he's going to put up the All-Star type of numbers we're fantasizing about. He can be good, not great, and in that instance I think many of us would be disappointed.

4. With as much as they've talked about playing together, I can't fathom why this would be a problem and I would hope that it'd bring out the best in both of them, but again, seems more like speculation than a legitimate concern.

I agree that number 2 probably isn't a problem (Although in some connotations "number 2" can be a major problem!), I just have wondered if that's why Arizona wanted to get rid of Upton so badly for two years because I can't fathom any other reason. I know that we'll be able to tell by the All-Star Break one way or another from watching every game.

Uggla could definitely be a leader if he stepped up and did it. I'd love to see that happen and maybe the responsibility would inspire him to play better than he did last year. If he feels like he has to be the "man" of the team he ought to feel like hitting .260 with 35 HR's again, too. I feel like Uggla is going to define himself this year, one way or another. He can be the guy that steps up and helps the young guys mature or else he's probably going to be the outsider looking in because the rest of the offense sans McCann is really young.

All I know is that IF everything works out the way we hope it does, we'll be amazing for the next few years and I think that next year, with a full season of a healthy Beachy, we'd be better than the Nats. As things stand I think we have the edge over the Nats offensively and they have the edge over us pitching, but it could be a really fun season.

[Neil Caudle is Superman]

GoldenRebel, on 24 January 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

This wins the thread.

[UAdan]

Agreed, it'll be a fun year.

One other reason of why this trade works for us is we didn't have to deal a reliever. For a long time, I thought we would. We made it through this big trade and we still have the best bullpen in baseball.

[UAdan]

Here's a fun game...

Guess Justin Upton's jersey number.

Something tells me he won't be wearing 10.

[Chainsaw Massaquoi]

Neil Caudle is Superman, on 24 January 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

The crazy part is that for the 2013 season we pretty much have as much money as we were going to have had we not done this trade. Prado probably would have gotten his $7 million for 2013 so we're not really spending much more to trade up to Upton.
Obviously this could be a huge trade for us, but my questions are:

1. Who will be the Braves' clubhouse leader now? Huddy is a pitcher and he may be gone after this season. McCann will almost certainly be gone after this season. Who is going to step up and tell people to play hard?

2. Will our team work ethic suffer? Both B.J. and Justin Upton have been said to have poor work ethic during the course of their careers. Will this rub off on Heyward, who seemed complacent in 2011, and Freeman?

3. Will Justin Upton the guy who hit .300 with 26 HR's and 20 SB's in 2009 and .289 with 31 HR's and 21 SB's in 2011 or will he be the guy who hit .273 with 17 HR's and 18 SB's in 2010 and .280 with 17 HR's and 18 SB's in 2012? If he is the former then we have ourselves an amazing outfield. If he's the latter then he's not much better than Prado.

4. Will having brothers on the same team bring out the best in each of them or will it bring out the worst in them? I could see that going either way. I played on the same high school baseball team as my cousin all four years and we enjoyed it a lot, but I know some people who get nasty when playing sports with family members.

Everybody in this trade was expendable except for Prado. I think that at worst Justin Upton will be equal to Prado at his best offensively. That's safe to say at this point in their careers. The only way we could possibly be hurt in this trade is with team leadership and the fan base as Prado was a fan favorite. It's a solid move at worst and potentially a huge move.

1.  McCann should undoubtedly be the clubhouse leader with Huddy.  Although this could very well be the opportunity for Cerrano to step the hell up and take absolute control of the team.  This is the window legends are made of.  Jester esque.  

2.  My feeling is that this inspires and reinvigorates them.  How productive would you be if over the past two years your GM has publicly ridiculed you has tried tirelessly to shop you, then shamed in in the media for blocking a trade to a team on your no-trade list.  Hopefully this will bring the fun and competitive nature out of them and j-hey will feel that and raise his game.  

3.  If he's the latter then it's a wash.  But he's still only 25 and locked up for 3 seasons. His off year was as good as Prados good year.  

4.  See #2.  


In closing, as a Bravos sympathizer, people are overstating Prados value to the team.  Was he extremely flexible in his positions and consistent?  Yes.  Was he Worth the alleged 11M/yr he would be seeking in free agency? Hell no.  I think fans loved Prados bc he was Atlanta's version of Charlie hustle.  I'm willing to bet that the Fransisco/Johnson combo at 3rd yields better results than Prado would.

Edited by Chainsaw Massaquoi, 24 January 2013 - 07:47 PM.

[Neil Caudle is Superman]

Chainsaw Massaquoi, on 24 January 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

1.  McCann should undoubtedly be the clubhouse leader with Huddy.  Although this could very well be the opportunity for Cerrano to step the hell up and take absolute control of the team.  This is the window legends are made of.  Jester esque.  

2.  My feeling is that this inspires and reinvigorates them.  How productive would you be if over the past two years your GM has publicly ridiculed you has tried tirelessly to shop you, then shamed in in the media for blocking a trade to a team on your no-trade list.  Hopefully this will bring the fun and competitive nature out of them and j-hey will feel that and raise his game.  

3.  If he's the latter then it's a wash.  But he's still only 25 and locked up for 3 seasons. His off year was as good as Prados good year.  

4.  See #2.  


In closing, as a Bravos sympathizer, people are overstating Prados value to the team.  Was he extremely flexible in his positions and consistent?  Yes.  Was he Worth the alleged 11M/yr he would be seeking in free agency? Hell no.  I think fans loved Prados bc he was Atlanta's version of Charlie hustle.  I'm willing to bet that the Fransisco/Johnson combo at 3rd yields better results than Prado would.

Very good point about the way Towers treated Upton. I never really understood why he would do such a thing which is why I have some doubts on Upton's attitude. I can't fathom a GM doing to a young budding superstar what he did without there being an issue, but then again some bosses are just dumbasses so there is that.

I think Prado's value isn't overstated... His actual on the field WAR-esque value certainly isn't anything to grab some Kleenex and lotion over, but having a player on the team who can literally play all 9 positions if you really need him to is a rare value and having a good presence in the clubhouse is invaluable. Sometimes a good influence on the other 24 guys can make a mediocre player worth as much as a pretty good player.

[Chainsaw Massaquoi]

I just hope that this doesn't go the way of McClouth, where a kid seems promising but fails miserably.  Or the Teixera route, where they simply treat him as a rental and refuse to pony up the dinero to keep him in The A.  

I'm tired of the Braves using the, temporary solutions to permanent problems, modus operandi

Edited by Chainsaw Massaquoi, 24 January 2013 - 08:21 PM.

[UAdan]

I think it's safe to say this will be nothing like McLouth lol.

Gotta give props to Wren for shaking things up this off-season. It's sure been fun.

A lot of new faces on the team, excited to see them in action. The Uptons, Walden, Pena, Laird, Chris Johnson.

[CrimsoNation713]

Chainsaw Massaquoi, on 24 January 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

I just hope that this doesn't go the way of McClouth, where a kid seems promising but fails miserably.  Or the Teixera route, where they simply treat him as a rental and refuse to pony up the dinero to keep him in The A.  

I'm tired of the Braves using the, temporary solutions to permanent problems, modus operandi

OHHHHHHHH HELL NAW !!!!!!

[Mizzou_Fan]

GoldenRebel, on 24 January 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

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[ForwardRebels]

I'd like to take a moment to say that while I'm pleased with the Upton acquisition, the St. Louis Cardinals can still off.

That is all, carry on.