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U.S. Debt Reaches 100 Percent of Country's GDP Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/pol

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#31
JSHD

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Vader said:

I see JSHD is not acquanted with perhaps the greatest POTUS in the 20th century, Warren Harding. President Harding took office in 1921 just after the greatest economic collapse this coutry has ever faced. The downturn of 1920 was deeper than the ones saw in The Great Depression or the one we're in now.
instead of trying to reverse the depression by massive spending, huge debt and huge tax hikes, he cut government spending first by 25% in 1921 and another 25% the following year. Along with this he sashed income taxes for all income brackets. Unemployment went below 5% and the 20's saw what is still one of the longest sustained periods of growth in our history.

The economy was far different than it is today too. This was before Medicare, Social Security, food stamps, a global military empire and numerous other things we have now. The government is a much bigger part of the economy right now than in 1921. All that stuff is the only thing supporting much of the private sector in this nation right now.

Cutting government spending by 25 percent did not really amount to much back them. If we did that it would cause a real economic collapse. A ton of our economy is now supported by government spending. What you are suggesting would led to a disaster.

We need a fiscal Keynesian kick start to build infrastructure and eliminate tax cuts that do absolutely nothing to support consumer demand and create jobs. That is a way to control the debt and boost our domestic economy at the same time.
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#32
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JSHD said:

The economy was far different than it is today too. This was before Medicare, Social Security, food stamps, a global military empire and numerous other things we have now. The government is a much bigger part of the economy right now than in 1921. All that stuff is the only thing supporting much of the private sector in this nation right now.

Cutting government spending by 25 percent did not really amount to much back them. If we did that it would cause a real economic collapse. A ton of our economy is now supported by government spending. What you are suggesting would led to a disaster.

We need a fiscal Keynesian kick start to build infrastructure and eliminate tax cuts that do absolutely nothing to support consumer demand and create jobs. That is a way to control the debt and boost our domestic economy at the same time.


Thinking like this is what turned the collapse of 1929, which was less than the one in 1920, into the Great Depression and now has us trillions in debt.
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#33
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Vader said:

Thinking like this is what turned the collapse of 1929, which was less than the one in 1920, into the Great Depression and now has us trillions in debt.

Austerity is what did that. We shrunk the money supply(no QE one or two back then) we raised taxes and cut spending, and imposed trade restrictions. The double dip of the 1937 recession was also caused by Tea Party type policies as well after the New Deal had started to stimulate real recovery.

Recession of 1937

Government spending is what got us out of the Great Depression. All the spending we did on WWII finally drove down the unemployment rate and got the economy running at full steam again. This idea is what made Keynes famous and why we followed those policies for four decades.
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#34
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JSHD, here's what you fail to understand about the role of governmnet spending during WWII and the end of the Great Depression. Remember the government had been spending huge sums of money for the better part of a decade by the time we got into WWII an the enonomy was simply not recovering. Also remember that the vast majority of the government spending during this time is the exact type of spending you are talking about. Buy that I mean spending on things like public works such as building bridges, dams. roads and such. Despite almost a decade of huge taxes to pay for numerious huge infrastructure projects unemployment was still sky high when WWII started. In short, it was a failure up to WWII.

The difference in government spending in WWII and now is that you have a couple of factors playing roles here. On one hand you had millions of men entering into the armed forces, thus being employed and on the other hand you had the government buying products from the PRIVATE SECTOR. Virtually everything the US used or exported to it's allies in WWII were made by private sector companies. From the helmets on the GI's head, to the boots on his feet to the rifle he carried, to the bullets he fired, they were all made by private secotr companies. The government was a customer to the compaines. These companies employed people who actually helped grow the economy further buy buying everything from homes, cars, to day to days items. Also, these people actually paid taxes. The lion's share of government spending now though is going larely to entitlements to people who do not work nor pay taxes. This approach will never help grow the economy.

Now for this recovery to work again like you envision the governmnet would once again have to start buying stuff from companies in numbers that would make these companies start building new factories and hiring new people. I'm sorry but building more new bridges and repaving roads simply would not result in growth anything like what you are talking about, I don't care if we were to rebuild every bridge and repave every road from Maine to California. Only the government buying goods in massive numbers from private sector companies coupled with putting millions in uniform would spark growth like what you are thinking.
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#35
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Vader said:

JSHD, here's what you fail to understand about the role of governmnet spending during WWII and the end of the Great Depression. Remember the government had been spending huge sums of money for the better part of a decade by the time we got into WWII an the enonomy was simply not recovering. Also remember that the vast majority of the government spending during this time is the exact type of spending you are talking about. Buy that I mean spending on things like public works such as building bridges, dams. roads and such. Despite almost a decade of huge taxes to pay for numerious huge infrastructure projects unemployment was still sky high when WWII started. In short, it was a failure up to WWII.

The difference in government spending in WWII and now is that you have a couple of factors playing roles here. On one hand you had millions of men entering into the armed forces, thus being employed and on the other hand you had the government buying products from the PRIVATE SECTOR. Virtually everything the US used or exported to it's allies in WWII were made by private sector companies. From the helmets on the GI's head, to the boots on his feet to the rifle he carried, to the bullets he fired, they were all made by private secotr companies. The government was a customer to the compaines. These companies employed people who actually helped grow the economy further buy buying everything from homes, cars, to day to days items. Also, these people actually paid taxes. The lion's share of government spending now though is going larely to entitlements to people who do not work nor pay taxes. This approach will never help grow the economy.

Now for this recovery to work again like you envision the governmnet would once again have to start buying stuff from companies in numbers that would make these companies start building new factories and hiring new people. I'm sorry but building more new bridges and repaving roads simply would not result in growth anything like what you are talking about, I don't care if we were to rebuild every bridge and repave every road from Maine to California. Only the government buying goods in massive numbers from private sector companies coupled with putting millions in uniform would spark growth like what you are thinking.

Yes the New Deal actually brought unemployment down quite a bit. It was extremely high then because they made a ton of policy errors prior to the New Deal being implemented. Conservatives got antsy about the debt and New Deal programs were cut and we had a double dip after growth had resumed and unemployment had began falling drastically. WW II spending is what finally broke the depression. Government spending and fiscal policy is the main thing that drove down unemployment during this period.

The tea party policies will not work because it is consumer demand that is holding back the economy. It has nothing to with the debt which is actually quite managable due to historically low tax rates. Cutting government spending which mostly goes the non-afluent will crash the economy. The reason is that these people spend all the money they have quickly. It is really what is supporting the private sector right now.

The budget compromise really didn't cut much and I think they will be smart enough not to do that before the economy recovers. Hopefully the Super Congress will not be stupid like UK policy makers.

Our infrastructure is in really bad shape and that is what we need to spend on to get back to full employment. The market is not going to correct itself in this situation. We need to kick start things. I promise that is what ended the great depression.

If you want to learn more about US economic history, below is a link to a good online course that you can download. The professor is far right of me I assure you. This course was made prior to the financial crisis though and the 2000s. Most economists are much more moderate now. :razz:

History of the U.S. Economy in the 20th Century
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#36
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Vader said:

JSHD, here's what you fail to understand about the role of governmnet spending during WWII and the end of the Great Depression. Remember the government had been spending huge sums of money for the better part of a decade by the time we got into WWII an the enonomy was simply not recovering. Also remember that the vast majority of the government spending during this time is the exact type of spending you are talking about. Buy that I mean spending on things like public works such as building bridges, dams. roads and such. Despite almost a decade of huge taxes to pay for numerious huge infrastructure projects unemployment was still sky high when WWII started. In short, it was a failure up to WWII.

The difference in government spending in WWII and now is that you have a couple of factors playing roles here. On one hand you had millions of men entering into the armed forces, thus being employed and on the other hand you had the government buying products from the PRIVATE SECTOR. Virtually everything the US used or exported to it's allies in WWII were made by private sector companies. From the helmets on the GI's head, to the boots on his feet to the rifle he carried, to the bullets he fired, they were all made by private secotr companies. The government was a customer to the compaines. These companies employed people who actually helped grow the economy further buy buying everything from homes, cars, to day to days items. Also, these people actually paid taxes. The lion's share of government spending now though is going larely to entitlements to people who do not work nor pay taxes. This approach will never help grow the economy.

Now for this recovery to work again like you envision the governmnet would once again have to start buying stuff from companies in numbers that would make these companies start building new factories and hiring new people. I'm sorry but building more new bridges and repaving roads simply would not result in growth anything like what you are talking about, I don't care if we were to rebuild every bridge and repave every road from Maine to California. Only the government buying goods in massive numbers from private sector companies coupled with putting millions in uniform would spark growth like what you are thinking.

Vader man, you're spending far too much time on Captain Talking Point.  Little things like facts haven't bothered him yet so you may as well give it up....

#37
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Consumer demand is not holding back the economy....it's broke ass consumers.  People can't buy things when it costs them $40 at best to fill up their gas tank. Seriously, you could not be more wrong about more things if you were deliberately trying to be wrong.  It is freaking astounding how misguided and inept some of the feces you post on here is.

I'm considering using my one get out of jail free card to abuse my admin powers just to change your username to "FailsAtLife"
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#38
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PuddingTime said:

Consumer demand is not holding back the economy....it's broke ass consumers.  People can't buy things when it costs them $40 at best to fill up their gas tank. "

Yeah, that is consumer demand. Broke consumers not being able to spend is a consumer demand problem. Dang son. What did you think I was trying to say?
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#39
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JSHD said:

Yeah, that is consumer demand. Broke consumers not being able to spend is a consumer demand problem. Dang son. What did you think I was trying to say?

need doesn't equate to demand, a basic principle of economics
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#40
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JSHD said:

Yeah, that is consumer demand. Broke consumers not being able to spend is a consumer demand problem. Dang son. What did you think I was trying to say?

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#41
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Well the S&P has now officially downgraded the US Debt. For the first time in history we have lost our AAA status. What's worse is they also tacked on a "negative" outlook meaning there is a very good chance they will downgrade it even further within the next two years. We're now Greece. Thanks Obama & Reid.
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#42
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Vader said:

Well the S&P has now officially downgraded the US Debt. For the first time in history we have lost our AAA status. What's worse is they also tacked on a "negative" outlook meaning there is a very good chance they will downgrade it even further within the next two years. We're now Greece. Thanks Obama & Reid.

I am afraid not. Obama offered a much larger debt deal and the GOP rejected it because it raised taxes. Good luck spinning this one.
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#43
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PuddingTime said:

Consumer demand is not holding back the economy....it's broke ass consumers.  People can't buy things when it costs them $40 at best to fill up their gas tank. Seriously, you could not be more wrong about more things if you were deliberately trying to be wrong.  It is freaking astounding how misguided and inept some of the feces you post on here is.

I'm considering using my one get out of jail free card to abuse my admin powers just to change your username to "FailsAtLife"

$40 ??? What are you filling up ? A Yugo ?
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#44
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CrimsoNation713 said:

$40 ??? What are you filling up ? A Yugo ?

He told me he had a Ferrari. Surely he was talking about a Ferrari hot wheel.
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#45
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Vader said:

Well the S&P has now officially downgraded the US Debt. For the first time in history we have lost our AAA status. What's worse is they also tacked on a "negative" outlook meaning there is a very good chance they will downgrade it even further within the next two years. We're now Greece. Thanks Obama & Reid.

Vader, wouldn't you agree that this is also the fault of the tea party members that let the whole thing drag out and almost take us off the cliff? I'm a firm believer in having the buck stop with the president, but you must admit we could gave raised the ceiling months ago (rightly or wrongly) and avoided this
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