Billy Donovan #1 In ESPN Top 50 College Basketball Coaches - Page 3 - SEC Basketball Talk - SECTalk.com - Page 3

Jump to content

Welcome to SECTalk.com

Welcome to SECTalk.com -- The Home of 6 Straight National Titles!

You are currently accessing our site as a guest which means you can't access all of our features such as social groups, sports betting, and many more. By joining our free community you will have access to all of these great features as well as to participating in our forums, contacting other members, and much more. Registration only takes a minute and SECTalk.com is absolutely free, so please join today!

If you have any problems registering or signing in, please contact us.

Countdown to Kickoff
3024922
DaysHoursMinutesSeconds
Countdown Jersey Thread


Latest Topics


Latest News


Top High Fived

Top Bettors


Billy Donovan #1 In ESPN Top 50 College Basketball Coaches

- - - - -

88 replies to this topic

#31
SECats

SECats

    Delusional Homer and Right-Wing Wacko

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    8,733
  • Age:
    44
  • Joined:
    Jul 2010
  • Location:
    ....at my 'puter.
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    3,528

View PostGatorUnvrsty, on 04 July 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:



No, here's the thing, how many NC's do you think Billy would have had by now if he'd left for UK after the UF 2007 NC, and was recruiting from Lexington?

He'd have been recruiting from a blue-blood basketball program that already attracts the top talent on name alone, and he'd be riding the wave from back-to-back NC's.

I think it's safe and conservative to say he'd probably have 5 right now, 2 from UF and 3 at UK; and every coach in the country would be a small dot in his rearview mirror.

I disagree....Billy does not recruit like Cal.  When Cal took the job even Vitale said that Cal at UK would be special.  Billy would have never gotten Davis, MKG, Wall, Noel or Cousins (to name a few).  That isn't a slam on Billy D.
2012-13 SECTalk Bowl Pick'em Champion
2012-13 SECTalk Biggest Homer Final Four

#32
SECats

SECats

    Delusional Homer and Right-Wing Wacko

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    8,733
  • Age:
    44
  • Joined:
    Jul 2010
  • Location:
    ....at my 'puter.
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    3,528

View PostL.A.Hog, on 04 July 2014 - 07:50 PM, said:

If Cal could coach as well as he recruits there would be no need for excuses.It's the player's fault when they fail.

Cal always takes the blame.  He's a "players coach", all his guys LOVE him.
2012-13 SECTalk Bowl Pick'em Champion
2012-13 SECTalk Biggest Homer Final Four

#33
SECats

SECats

    Delusional Homer and Right-Wing Wacko

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    8,733
  • Age:
    44
  • Joined:
    Jul 2010
  • Location:
    ....at my 'puter.
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    3,528

View PostGatorUnvrsty, on 04 July 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:



I don't think it's a stretch at all. Know how many McDonald's AA's were on those UF NC teams? 1. Corey Brewer was the only McD's AA on the team.

And so what if he hasn't yet built a 2nd NC team; Cal didn't even have his 1st NC team until 20 years into his career... Billy won his titles at a basketball nobody 12 years into his career.

I've already addressed your strange "issue" with Billy not having another title yet, as if winning them is simple; but I'll remind you of some NCAA tourney history and illustrate why Billy not having a 3rd title yet isn't unusual at all...

* Coach K won the 2nd of his back2back titles in '92. It was 9 years before he finally won another in 2001. It would be another 9 years before he won again in 2010, and that's at Duke.

* Dean Smith won 1 in '82 and didn't win another until 11 years later in '93. He was at UNC for 37 years and still only won the 2 titles.

* Rick Pitino won 1 in '96 and didn't win another until 17 years later, and that's at 2 basketball rich programs.

* Bill Self has been at KU for 11 years, and he still only has the 1 title in 2008.

* Jim Boeheim has been at Syracuse nearly 40 years and he still only has the 1 title in 2003.

* Tom Izzo has been at MSU for 20 years and he still only has the 1 title in 2000 (against Billy btw).

That is a list of College Basketball Hall Of Fame coaches (several of them are already in it). There are only 2 current coaches to win titles less than 5 years apart. Billy and Roy Williams, who won in 2005 and 2009 at UNC; and he may very well end up having to vacate 1 of those. He never even won a title in his 16 years at KU.

If Billy had Cal's rosters every year he'd be chasing Wooden and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Billy D would never have Cal's roster because he doesn't recruit like Cal (nobody does).  3 FF in 5 seasons with 3 completely different teams.  The reason Cal hasn't won multiple titles yet isn't because he's not a good coach it's because it's new teams every year.  This year will be #2 and if the nba goes to a two-year rule soon, ucla is going to get caught.  Period.  And sooner rather than later.
2012-13 SECTalk Bowl Pick'em Champion
2012-13 SECTalk Biggest Homer Final Four

#34
SECats

SECats

    Delusional Homer and Right-Wing Wacko

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    8,733
  • Age:
    44
  • Joined:
    Jul 2010
  • Location:
    ....at my 'puter.
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    3,528

View PostGatorUnvrsty, on 04 July 2014 - 09:19 PM, said:



If Billy was at UK and getting O&D players, 2 things would likely have happened; and we got a glimpse of it with Brad Beal.

Billy's not blind; he knows when he has a kid with the potential to go early, and he adjusts as necessary.

So that's the 1st thing; he'd have adjusted while still stressing the kind of defense he's famous for... the kids he gets now play high-scoring AAU ball, too; they just aren't McD's AA's.

But he's also pathologically honest; he'll tell a kid if he still has work to do; and that's where he differs from Cal (or at least from the way Cal used to be), he wouldn't encourage an underprepared kid to go pro... that has been the trademark attraction for kids with Cal in the past. I will acknowledge that he's probably backed off that a bit, as this past season indicates.

So the 2nd thing that would've likely happened is some of UK's past players would have come back for at least a 2nd year; simply because Billy wouldn't have been encouraging them to leave like Cal did, often at the expense of or to the detriment of UK.

I think it finally occurred to Cal after this season, with all the angry Cat's fans screaming that UK is supposed to be his 1st consideration, that he IS NOT an agent for the NBA or these kids; UK is his employer, and if he wants it to stay that way, he will have to be loyal to them first and foremost... what's best for the program is and should be his primary concern and responsibility. He can still be an advocate for his players without sacrificing UK, but it's a delicate balancing act.

It would be incredibly selfish of Cal to tell a kid to come back if he's safely projected in the first round.  Cal makes commitments to these kids to do what's best for THEM, not him or UK.  Guaranteed money in the pros can change a kids life forever and it's Cal's responsibility to give them honest feedback (which he does)...most UK fans understand that we do one and done and are happy with that.  The ones that are complaining are too stupid to appreciate or understand what is happening with UK basketball and who is responsible for it.

Billy is great at what he does.  So is Cal.
2012-13 SECTalk Bowl Pick'em Champion
2012-13 SECTalk Biggest Homer Final Four

#35
L.A.Hog

L.A.Hog

    Go Hogs,Pilgrim

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    8,159
  • Age:
    57
  • Joined:
    Feb 2009
  • Cash:
    0
  • High Fives:
    5,297

View PostSECats, on 05 July 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:



Cal always takes the blame.  He's a "players coach", all his guys LOVE him.

looky here,I don't like cal therefore he sucks in all avenues in life.end of discussion.

geez you Kentucky guys are hard headed.

#36
SECats

SECats

    Delusional Homer and Right-Wing Wacko

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    8,733
  • Age:
    44
  • Joined:
    Jul 2010
  • Location:
    ....at my 'puter.
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    3,528

View PostL.A.Hog, on 05 July 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:



looky here,I don't like cal therefore he sucks in all avenues in life.end of discussion.

geez you Kentucky guys are hard headed.

Well...with those rosters he SHOULD be undefeated.
2012-13 SECTalk Bowl Pick'em Champion
2012-13 SECTalk Biggest Homer Final Four

#37
zartan

zartan

    Troll Tide

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    18,740
  • Joined:
    Nov 2007
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    7,363
Cal really saved his image with this year's tourney run

Went from overrated to worth it in a few weeks
Posted Image

#38
GatorUnvrsty

GatorUnvrsty

    AdminisGator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    25,087
  • Joined:
    Dec 2006
  • Location:
    The Beach
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    4,176

View PostSECats, on 05 July 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

I disagree....Billy does not recruit like Cal.  When Cal took the job even Vitale said that Cal at UK would be special.  Billy would have never gotten Davis, MKG, Wall, Noel or Cousins (to name a few).  That isn't a slam on Billy D.

Dude, you're crazy, UK practically recruits itself; if you add any decent coach and competent recruiter it's simple. And had Billy taken the job in 2007, coming off back-to-back Natty's, they'd have been beating his door down to play for him at UK. That's just the truth.

When Cal arrived at UK, he hadn't won jack Posted Image; he used the UK name and promises of sending guys up in a year to land the recruits he did.

I'll concede that he's a good recruiter; but you're going to have to get honest and concede that recruiting to UK is probably easier than at any other program in the country... hell, I shouldn't even have to convince you of that the way all you guys constantly remind everyone UK is the all-time top program.

View PostSECats, on 05 July 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

Billy D would never have Cal's roster because he doesn't recruit like Cal (nobody does).  3 FF in 5 seasons with 3 completely different teams.  The reason Cal hasn't won multiple titles yet isn't because he's not a good coach it's because it's new teams every year.  This year will be #2 and if the nba goes to a two-year rule soon, ucla is going to get caught.  Period.  And sooner rather than later.

The only thing preventing Billy from having rosters like Cal is location... if Billy was at UK and Cal was at UF, the 2 schools' rosters would look very much like they have for the past 5 years.

Billy would still be UK's coach to this day and would have brought more titles to the school by now.

Alabama is the football equivalent of what you get when you combine the top program with the top coach and top recruiter. 3 titles in 4 years.

UK may be the top program and Cal may be the top recruiter, but he damn sure ain't the top coach, or his resume would look like Nick's... and it doesn't by a long shot.

View PostSECats, on 05 July 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

It would be incredibly selfish of Cal to tell a kid to come back if he's safely projected in the first round.  Cal makes commitments to these kids to do what's best for THEM, not him or UK.  Guaranteed money in the pros can change a kids life forever and it's Cal's responsibility to give them honest feedback (which he does)...most UK fans understand that we do one and done and are happy with that.  The ones that are complaining are too stupid to appreciate or understand what is happening with UK basketball and who is responsible for it.

Billy is great at what he does.  So is Cal.

It wouldn't be selfish if the kid truly had things to improve upon before going; and he did just that this year... kids came back who could have been drafted.

And every coach makes commitments to his kids; but every coach also has a job to do, and that's do what's best for his employer.

Like I said, it's a delicate balancing act; but Cal obviously saw some flaws in how he was doing things because he's made significant changes to his modus operandi for 2 straight years now.

Edited by GatorUnvrsty, 05 July 2014 - 09:14 PM.

Posted Image

#39
UK4Life

UK4Life
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    4,150
  • Age:
    25
  • Joined:
    Jan 2012
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    1,862
@GatorUnvrsty

I can't believe you're suggesting that Cal should be winning titles at the rate Saban is. In CFB the best team in the nation wins more often than not. The NCAA tourney is almost a crap-shoot. Was Uconn the best team in the nation? How about Uconn in 2011 or Duke in 2010? Sure a great team wins but they usually weren't ranked first or second in the regular season. It's all about what team gets hot at the right time. Point is, upsets happen in CBB FAR more often than in CFB.

If Billy was at UK he'd have similar recruiting classes to Coach K and Bill Self. Both great coaches at blue-blood institutions that recruit themselves. Besides, I don't think he wants to go the same route Cal does.
Posted Image

#40
bbqit

bbqit
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    16,702
  • Age:
    54
  • Joined:
    Dec 2004
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    5,938
we will give kennedy, l a hog's hair piece, possum's used underwear, djcrenshaws half full vasoline jar, and two dozen msu fans for either coach. now who is ready to deal?
Du-te la dracu 'LSU

#41
PuddingTime

PuddingTime

    Stoops Does Work

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    38,805
  • Age:
    30
  • Joined:
    Oct 2006
  • Location:
    Lexington, KY
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    9,265

View Postbbqit, on 06 July 2014 - 06:34 AM, said:

we will give kennedy, l a hog's hair piece, possum's used underwear, djcrenshaws half full vasoline jar, and two dozen msu fans for either coach. now who is ready to deal?
You're gonna have to sweeten the pot with a signed Archie jersey and my own permanent UK tent setup at the Grove.
"At Kentucky, we don't just play college basketball. We ARE college basketball." - Coach John Calipari

#42
PuddingTime

PuddingTime

    Stoops Does Work

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    38,805
  • Age:
    30
  • Joined:
    Oct 2006
  • Location:
    Lexington, KY
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    9,265

View PostL.A.Hog, on 05 July 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:



looky here,I don't like cal therefore he sucks in all avenues in life.end of discussion.

geez you Kentucky guys are hard headed.
This. I wish all of the anti-UK folks on here would come out and just say this instead of trying g to rationalize their disagreeing with us in long winded posts. Just say you don't like Cal or the way we do things in the Bluegrass and go on about your business.

After we win the natty this year the only meaningful category Billy leads in will go bye bye and this argument is rendered totally moot.
"At Kentucky, we don't just play college basketball. We ARE college basketball." - Coach John Calipari

#43
bbqit

bbqit
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    16,702
  • Age:
    54
  • Joined:
    Dec 2004
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    5,938

View PostPuddingTime, on 06 July 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

You're gonna have to sweeten the pot with a signed Archie jersey and my own permanent UK tent setup at the Grove.

Got a 40 year old football and air space in the grove. All ground level is taken
Du-te la dracu 'LSU

#44
PuddingTime

PuddingTime

    Stoops Does Work

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    38,805
  • Age:
    30
  • Joined:
    Oct 2006
  • Location:
    Lexington, KY
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    9,265

View Postbbqit, on 06 July 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:



Got a 40 year old football and air space in the grove. All ground level is taken
That'll only get you the women's coach.
"At Kentucky, we don't just play college basketball. We ARE college basketball." - Coach John Calipari

#45
bbqit

bbqit
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    16,702
  • Age:
    54
  • Joined:
    Dec 2004
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    5,938

View PostPuddingTime, on 06 July 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

That'll only get you the women's coach.

What she look like
Du-te la dracu 'LSU






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users