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Billy Donovan #1 In ESPN Top 50 College Basketball Coaches

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#16
Mizzou_Fan

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Haha, I was just disputing your claim about the head to head. I'm not sure who's the better coach, I'd be happy with both.

#17
PuddingTime

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I'd rather Pearl were at Tennessee. UK-UT was a lot of fun. Hopefully your boy Anderson can bring some fire to Mizzou and get this going.
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#18
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View PostPuddingTime, on 04 July 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

I'd rather Pearl were at Tennessee.

You and me both

Bring back fat Phil while you're at it
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#19
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This REAL simple IMO.

Billy = 2 titles
Cal = 1 title

It is clear that Cal is well on his way to the top of this list.  He has put SEVERAL more into the NBA, 3 FF in 5 years and a title.  This time next year he'll have #2 and be in a great position for his 3rd.

Billy D is a great coach...but if Cal stays as long at UK as BD stays at UF, UK will add at least another 4-5 NCAA titles to the total and then there will be no doubt who the greatest coach in the HISTORY of the SEC is...yes, I said history.

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#20
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View PostPuddingTime, on 04 July 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

So your reasoning is that we have an unfair advantage because we recruit better.  It's the same story in football.

Kentucky football is more noble because we come by our wins with inferior players.  Rich Brooks was better than Steve Spurrier.  Cool story.

Nobody said it's an unfair advantage; it's just a fact.

1 coach regularly has rosters made up of players who are NBA-ready and has won 1 NC; the other rarely has the same kind of players and has 2 NC's... that's the very definition of "better coach".

And if Rich Brooks had won 2 NC's despite having fewer quality players than Spurrier, everyone would say Brooks is the better coach too. Pretty simple.
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#21
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View PostSECats, on 04 July 2014 - 04:39 PM, said:

This REAL simple IMO.

Billy = 2 titles
Cal = 1 title

It is clear that Cal is well on his way to the top of this list.  He has put SEVERAL more into the NBA, 3 FF in 5 years and a title.  This time next year he'll have #2 and be in a great position for his 3rd.

Billy D is a great coach...but if Cal stays as long at UK as BD stays at UF, UK will add at least another 4-5 NCAA titles to the total and then there will be no doubt who the greatest coach in the HISTORY of the SEC is...yes, I said history.

Go Big Blue!!

No, here's the thing, how many NC's do you think Billy would have had by now if he'd left for UK after the UF 2007 NC, and was recruiting from Lexington?

He'd have been recruiting from a blue-blood basketball program that already attracts the top talent on name alone, and he'd be riding the wave from back-to-back NC's.

I think it's safe and conservative to say he'd probably have 5 right now, 2 from UF and 3 at UK; and every coach in the country would be a small dot in his rearview mirror.
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#22
L.A.Hog

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Coach-Donavan

Recruiter-Cal hands down,no doubt,can't be touched.No one in the country can come close to him here.He should win it all every year.Good job.

#23
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View PostGatorUnvrsty, on 04 July 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

No, here's the thing, how many NC's do you think Billy would have had by now if he'd left for UK after the UF 2007 NC, and was recruiting from Lexington?

He'd have been recruiting from a blue-blood basketball program that already attracts the top talent on name alone, and he'd be riding the wave from back-to-back NC's.

I think it's safe and conservative to say he'd probably have 5 right now, 2 from UF and 3 at UK; and every coach in the country would be a small dot in his rearview mirror.
That's a bit of a stretch. That would mean he'd be a greater coach than Rupp, Dean Smith and Coach K before 50. Yes, he has two titles but with the exact same team. He's yet to build a second championship team. Had Anthony Davis and co. come back it's a safe bet that Cal would have 2 titles as well.
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#24
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If Cal could coach as well as he recruits there would be no need for excuses.It's the player's fault when they fail.

#25
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View PostUK4Life, on 04 July 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

That's a bit of a stretch. That would mean he'd be a greater coach than Rupp, Dean Smith and Coach K before 50. Yes, he has two titles but with the exact same team. He's yet to build a second championship team. Had Anthony Davis and co. come back it's a safe bet that Cal would have 2 titles as well.

I don't think it's a stretch at all. Know how many McDonald's AA's were on those UF NC teams? 1. Corey Brewer was the only McD's AA on the team.

And so what if he hasn't yet built a 2nd NC team; Cal didn't even have his 1st NC team until 20 years into his career... Billy won his titles at a basketball nobody 12 years into his career.

I've already addressed your strange "issue" with Billy not having another title yet, as if winning them is simple; but I'll remind you of some NCAA tourney history and illustrate why Billy not having a 3rd title yet isn't unusual at all...

* Coach K won the 2nd of his back2back titles in '92. It was 9 years before he finally won another in 2001. It would be another 9 years before he won again in 2010, and that's at Duke.

* Dean Smith won 1 in '82 and didn't win another until 11 years later in '93. He was at UNC for 37 years and still only won the 2 titles.

* Rick Pitino won 1 in '96 and didn't win another until 17 years later, and that's at 2 basketball rich programs.

* Bill Self has been at KU for 11 years, and he still only has the 1 title in 2008.

* Jim Boeheim has been at Syracuse nearly 40 years and he still only has the 1 title in 2003.

* Tom Izzo has been at MSU for 20 years and he still only has the 1 title in 2000 (against Billy btw).

That is a list of College Basketball Hall Of Fame coaches (several of them are already in it). There are only 2 current coaches to win titles less than 5 years apart. Billy and Roy Williams, who won in 2005 and 2009 at UNC; and he may very well end up having to vacate 1 of those. He never even won a title in his 16 years at KU.

If Billy had Cal's rosters every year he'd be chasing Wooden and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Edited by GatorUnvrsty, 04 July 2014 - 08:25 PM.

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#26
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View PostGatorUnvrsty, on 04 July 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

I don't think it's a stretch at all. Know how many McDonald's AA's were on those UF NC teams? 1. Corey Brewer was the only McD's AA on the team.

And so what if he hasn't yet built a 2nd NC team; Cal didn't even have his 1st NC team until 20 years into his career... Billy won his titles at a basketball nobody 12 years into his career.

I've already addressed your strange "issue" with Billy not having another title yet, as if winning them is simple; but I'll remind you of some NCAA tourney history and illustrate why Billy not having a 3rd title yet isn't unusual at all...

* Coach K won the 2nd of his back2back titles in '92. It was 9 years before he finally won another in 2001. It would be another 9 years before he won again in 2010, and that's at Duke.

* Dean Smith won 1 in '82 and didn't win another until 11 years later in '93. He was at UNC for 37 years and still only won the 2 titles.

* Rick Pitino won 1 in '96 and didn't win another until 17 years later, and that's at 2 basketball rich programs.

* Bill Self has been at KU for 11 years, and he still only has the 1 title in 2008.

* Jim Boeheim has been at Syracuse nearly 40 years and he still only has the 1 title in 2003.

* Tom Izzo has been at MSU for 20 years and he still only has the 1 title in 2000 (against Billy btw).

That is a list of College Basketball Hall Of Fame coaches (several of them are already in it). There are only 2 current coaches to win titles less than 5 years apart. Billy and Roy Williams, who won in 2005 and 2009 at UNC; and he may very well end up having to vacate 1 of those. He never even won a title in his 16 years at KU.

If Billy had Cal's rosters every year he'd be chasing Wooden and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
All of that is pretty valid except this. People see all these uber talented players and assume it's easier to win with them. That's not this case at all. You think Billy would of had the same amount of success with UK's roster that he did with UF's roster? No way do i believe he could of taken that team to the championship game.

The most glaring difference between the two teams was defense. Players rarely become AA because of their stout D. It's all about offensive highlights, unless of course you're a great rim protector like AD and Noel. Our best on ball defender this season was a NR freshman out of Louisville.

It could be a coincidence but since Coach K has been recruiting OaD players his tourney success has been pathetic.

Edited by UK4Life, 04 July 2014 - 08:37 PM.

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#27
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Well,when the players are only there for one year,why have a real coach.I get it now.

#28
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View PostUK4Life, on 04 July 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

All of that is pretty valid except this. People see all these uber talented players and assume it's easier to win with them. That's not this case at all. You think Billy would of had the same amount of success with UK's roster that he did with UF's roster? No way do i believe he could of taken that team to the championship game.

The most glaring difference between the two teams was defense. Players rarely become AA because of their stout D. It's all about offensive highlights, unless of course you're a great rim protector like AD and Noel. Our best on ball defender this season was a NR freshman out of Louisville.

It could be a coincidence but since Coach K has been recruiting OaD players his tourney success has been pathetic.

If Billy was at UK and getting O&D players, 2 things would likely have happened; and we got a glimpse of it with Brad Beal.

Billy's not blind; he knows when he has a kid with the potential to go early, and he adjusts as necessary.

So that's the 1st thing; he'd have adjusted while still stressing the kind of defense he's famous for... the kids he gets now play high-scoring AAU ball, too; they just aren't McD's AA's.

But he's also pathologically honest; he'll tell a kid if he still has work to do; and that's where he differs from Cal (or at least from the way Cal used to be), he wouldn't encourage an underprepared kid to go pro... that has been the trademark attraction for kids with Cal in the past. I will acknowledge that he's probably backed off that a bit, as this past season indicates.

So the 2nd thing that would've likely happened is some of UK's past players would have come back for at least a 2nd year; simply because Billy wouldn't have been encouraging them to leave like Cal did, often at the expense of or to the detriment of UK.

I think it finally occurred to Cal after this season, with all the angry Cat's fans screaming that UK is supposed to be his 1st consideration, that he IS NOT an agent for the NBA or these kids; UK is his employer, and if he wants it to stay that way, he will have to be loyal to them first and foremost... what's best for the program is and should be his primary concern and responsibility. He can still be an advocate for his players without sacrificing UK, but it's a delicate balancing act.
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#29
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View PostPuddingTime, on 04 July 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

I'd rather Pearl were at Tennessee. UK-UT was a lot of fun. Hopefully your boy Anderson can bring some fire to Mizzou and get this going.
I'm trying to remain cautiously optimistic about Anderson.

#30
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View PostMizzou_Fan, on 04 July 2014 - 09:58 PM, said:

I'm trying to remain cautiously optimistic about Anderson.

You never know; just because a guy isn't a proven commodity doesn't mean he can't be.

Both Mizzou and UT have guys who haven't really had a chance yet; but the next few years will tell you how good your AD's are, because make no mistake, athletic directors are recruiters who have to be able to judge talent and potential too, just like coaches. They just judge coaching talent.

But if somebody would have said in 1996, after 2 years at Marshall, that 30-year old Billy Donovan would one day take the Florida basketball program to 3 NC games, win 2 of them, and make it a regular contender, everyone within earshot would have laughed uncontrollably for the next 4 years... until 2000 when UF faced MSU in the Finals.

To start his UF career Billy went 13-17, 15-16 (NIT Appearance), 22-9 (NCAA Sweet 16), and then BAM! 29-8 (SEC Champs, NCAA NC runners-up)... it was pretty shocking how fast he changed the face of the program.
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