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#46
Porcine

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View PostMatt, on 26 June 2014 - 06:01 PM, said:

Fun fact for the Magnolia State.  Ole Miss and Mississippi State are now the only schools to have never won an AP or NCAA championship in Football, Men's Basketball or Baseball.
The AP isn't the only one the matters then or now.

http://www.cfbdatawa...s.php?year=1960
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#47
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View PostMatt, on 26 June 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

They didn't win the AP championship and there is no NCAA Football Division 1A/FBS championship.
Continue being obtuse if you wish, but Mississippi State is actually the only SEC school not to have won a NC in the big 3 sports. I have provided you proof of this (mine being the official NCAA website for information), as has @Porcine, although you should note I am only discussing 1960, not the other 2 we claim.

Interesting that you'll allow Arky's 1964 NC but refuse to acknowledge Ole Miss' 1960 NC.

Edited by ForwardRebels, 27 June 2014 - 09:54 AM.

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#48
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View PostGatorUnvrsty, on 26 June 2014 - 09:08 PM, said:

The NCAA doesn't award or sponsor National Championships for FBS football; they only acknowledge that other selectors have awarded them to teams.
Do you acknowledge Arky's 1964 football NC?

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#49
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View PostPorcine, on 27 June 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:


The AP isn't the only one the matters then or now.

http://www.cfbdatawa...s.php?year=1960

Maybe not, but multiple NC's in one year is dumb.
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#50
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#51
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#52
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View PostForwardRebels, on 27 June 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

Do you acknowledge Arky's 1964 football NC?

Yep, and I acknowledge yours in 1960 too; never disputed it.

I simply said don't use the NCAA to legitimize it because they've never had anything to do with awarding or legitimizing NC's.

This has always been the problem with DI-A football. In any given season, there is a champion... A CHAMPION. Not champions, plural.

The term champion is singular; it's the winner, the best... there can't be 2 best teams in any single season; 1 is better than the other. Sports is a contest to determine superiority, and the winning contestant is the champion.

But DI-A football has always been like professional boxing, with several different organizations naming a champion... but unlike boxing, if there were 2 or more champions, they never met during that 1 season to determine the true National Champion.

Every adjustment to the selection process since 1995 has been an attempt to arrive at a single, unanimous National Champion; because of course, multiple National Champions is a contradiction in terms. From 1995-1997 it was called the Bowl Alliance, and that transformed into the BCS starting in 1998.

There have been more than a dozen selectors, some more legitimate than others; and every school has to determine for itself if it chooses to recognize awarded National Championships.

Some schools will claim every National Championship awarded to them, even when it's obvious their title was awarded by some marginal selector and there are 1 or more other National Champions who were selected by that era's recognized legitimate selectors, and their seasons were much more impressive.

That happened a lot back in the day when schools and/or states were grasping for some sort of respect or pride. Teams also started claiming every title, no matter who awarded it because they were trying to match the prestige of other programs or rivals who were also winning titles.

There are even teams who claim national titles from selectors who have just been created since the advent of the internet and weren't even around when the team played the games, if you can believe that.

Some mom's basement dweller starts a site on the internet in 2000, and starts awarding National Championships from the '60's and '70's; and schools are claiming those.

Other schools refuse to claim titles awarded by marginal selectors who weren't the widely recognized selectors of that particular era; because they know it isn't legitimate and it looks petty and desperate to claim it.

I'll give you an example. Florida was awarded National Championships in 1984 and 1985, but UF doesn't claim either one even though they have a case. In fact, the 1984 team was awarded the National Championship by 7 different selectors; but none of them were the AP or UPI (the 2 legitimate selectors of that era), so we don't claim it.

So it's entirely up to the individual whether or not he gives credit to a team for winning National Championships when there is more than 1 in a season. Since 1995, basically all fans concede that the Bowl Alliance or BCS champion is the nation's true champion; although the AP basically threw a wrench in that system too when they gave USC a NC in 2003 when LSU was the real NC. The only people who count USC's 2003 NC are the school and condoms; virtually everybody else knows and acknowledges that LSU were the 2003 NC's.

And, in a nutshell, that is why we have a 4-game playoff today; it's yet another attempt to arrive at a single, consensus National Champion in DI-A (FBS) football.

Edited by GatorUnvrsty, 27 June 2014 - 08:40 PM.

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#53
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#54
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View PostGatorUnvrsty, on 27 June 2014 - 08:38 PM, said:

Yep, and I acknowledge yours in 1960 too; never disputed it.

I simply said don't use the NCAA to legitimize it because they've never had anything to do with awarding or legitimizing NC's.

This has always been the problem with DI-A football. In any given season, there is a champion... A CHAMPION. Not champions, plural.

The term champion is singular; it's the winner, the best... there can't be 2 best teams in any single season; 1 is better than the other. Sports is a contest to determine superiority, and the winning contestant is the champion.

But DI-A football has always been like professional boxing, with several different organizations naming a champion... but unlike boxing, if there were 2 or more champions, they never met during that 1 season to determine the true National Champion.

Every adjustment to the selection process since 1995 has been an attempt to arrive at a single, unanimous National Champion; because of course, multiple National Champions is a contradiction in terms. From 1995-1997 it was called the Bowl Alliance, and that transformed into the BCS starting in 1998.

There have been more than a dozen selectors, some more legitimate than others; and every school has to determine for itself if it chooses to recognize awarded National Championships.

Some schools will claim every National Championship awarded to them, even when it's obvious their title was awarded by some marginal selector and there are 1 or more other National Champions who were selected by that era's recognized legitimate selectors, and their seasons were much more impressive.

That happened a lot back in the day when schools and/or states were grasping for some sort of respect or pride. Teams also started claiming every title, no matter who awarded it because they were trying to match the prestige of other programs or rivals who were also winning titles.

There are even teams who claim national titles from selectors who have just been created since the advent of the internet and weren't even around when the team played the games, if you can believe that.

Some mom's basement dweller starts a site on the internet in 2000, and starts awarding National Championships from the '60's and '70's; and schools are claiming those.

Other schools refuse to claim titles awarded by marginal selectors who weren't the widely recognized selectors of that particular era; because they know it isn't legitimate and it looks petty and desperate to claim it.

I'll give you an example. Florida was awarded National Championships in 1984 and 1985, but UF doesn't claim either one even though they have a case. In fact, the 1984 team was awarded the National Championship by 7 different selectors; but none of them were the AP or UPI (the 2 legitimate selectors of that era), so we don't claim it.

So it's entirely up to the individual whether or not he gives credit to a team for winning National Championships when there is more than 1 in a season. Since 1995, basically all fans concede that the Bowl Alliance or BCS champion is the nation's true champion; although the AP basically threw a wrench in that system too when they gave USC a NC in 2003 when LSU was the real NC. The only people who count USC's 2003 NC are the school and condoms; virtually everybody else knows and acknowledges that LSU were the 2003 NC's.

And, in a nutshell, that is why we have a 4-game playoff today; it's yet another attempt to arrive at a single, consensus National Champion in DI-A (FBS) football.
Fair enough, and thank you for your eloquent reply. :cheers:

(8) Ole Miss Rebels  8-2.  (4-2)

- "The worst thing a coach can do is stand pat and think the things that worked yesterday will win tomorrow. Intelligent changes must be made."  - Coach Johnny Vaught


FIRE MATT LUKE!!!!

Formerly known as FCNDawg



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