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Philosophy Discussion

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38 replies to this topic

#31
JDawg

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View PostA. Pilgrim, on 22 January 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

Where threads go to die!

Keep this one up.  I hope to provide input to it.

I've always thought I could be a psychological researcher.  My friends are, for one reason or another, always drawn to me for advice.

FIRE EVERYONE


#32
dawgbit

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View PostA. Pilgrim, on 22 January 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

A buncha stuff...
Not douchey at all.
My fundamental dissention with Aquinas is his assertion that Christian belief is perhaps the highest science of all while still maintaining that the first principle of Christian theology is that the mysteries of life must be accepted as fact based on faith alone.
If pushed to pick, I would instead demur to Ockham insofar as to say religion is not science though the two are not mutually exclusive. That is to say there is no reason that the antecedent cannot co-exist with and perhaps even within the consequent, rather than the one rejecting or disproving the other.
My opinion is that the two are neither exclusive nor inclusive of each other. I think religion evolves far more slowly than science and therein lies the conundrum for so many. That and the fact that spirituality and belief have been expertly and inextricably tied to a structure of codification and a system bent more on societal control than the elevation of the mind/soul/spirit/human condition.
True spirituality is not that of a group, but one of the individual, and that is the fundamental difference between it and a system based on science or religion.

Your line of reasoning with regards to our perception of things sync up with Plato's analogy of the cave, i.e. a perception of reality based solely on shadows on a wall. Aren't all all our realities uniquely drawn by our perceptions or lack thereof? Reality is fluid and based solely on how we perceive it and our belief structure at the time we form that particular view.

Edited by dawgbit, 22 January 2014 - 10:59 PM.


#33
A. Pilgrim

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View Postdawgbit, on 22 January 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

Not douchey at all.
My fundamental dissention with Aquinas is his assertion that Christian belief is perhaps the highest science of all while still maintaining that the first principle of Christian theology is that the mysteries of life must be accepted as fact based on faith alone.
If pushed to pick, I would instead demur to Ockham insofar as to say religion is not science though the two are not mutually exclusive. That is to say there is no reason that the antecedent cannot co-exist with and perhaps even within the consequent, rather than the one rejecting or disproving the other.
My opinion is that the two are neither exclusive nor inclusive of each other. I think religion evolves far more slowly than science and therein lies the conundrum for so many. That and the fact that spirituality and belief have been expertly and inextricably tied to a structure of codification and a system bent more on societal control than the elevation of the mind/soul/spirit/human condition.
True spirituality is not that of a group, but one of the individual, and that is the fundamental difference between it and a system based on science or religion.

Your line of reasoning with regards to our perception of things sync up with Plato's analogy of the cave, i.e. a perception of reality based solely on shadows on a wall. Aren't all all our realities uniquely drawn by our perceptions or lack thereof? Reality is fluid and based solely on how we perceive it and our belief structure at the time we form that particular view.

We are definitely on the same page, you just expounded and went down a further path than I did.
I agree with you on Aquinas, I was merely using him to draw an analogy using thunder and lightening that you have correctly compared to Plato's cave analogy.

Great post, btw. Thanks!

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#34
ForwardRebels

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View PostJoeGator, on 22 January 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

@ForwardRebels


This is the sort of douchey thing you would like.
Thanks ole buddy; don't know how I could navigate this site without your help. :trollface:
Now, run along and play nice with RF4L.  /s

View Postmsubulldogfan1, on 01 January 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

I will not talk Posted Image all next year I promise that.

View Post1dawgfan09, on 09 December 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

I don't remotely care about the EB trophy. And, yes, I am completely serious.


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#35
ForwardRebels

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Also, when I have some time, I will also contribute to this thread.
(Gawd I hate making @JoeGator's predictions come true. :trollface: )

View Postmsubulldogfan1, on 01 January 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

I will not talk Posted Image all next year I promise that.

View Post1dawgfan09, on 09 December 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

I don't remotely care about the EB trophy. And, yes, I am completely serious.


Posted Image


#36
SECorBust

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Good stuff @dawgbit.

I like to think of faith independent of religion.  All religions require faith.  Some belief in the unknown.  It's a suspension of reality that humans use to provide answers to questions that we cannot answer.  I can see faith and spirituality walking hand in hand because ignoring the answers to the unknown is not enough.  It is an uncertain world and the possibilities are endless and many times frightening.  Filling in the blanks with the best possible outcomes is much less taxing on our psychological well being.  

I also like to contemplate the existential problem as being independent of religion and science therefore I do not have to differentiate between the two on the matter.  If we had nothing and then we had something how will we ever know whether it was the Chicken or the Egg that came first?  If Science is the answer then how were the laws of physics created and why was there anything in the beginning at all.  If religion is the answer then where did God come from.  Neither answer poses a reasonable explanation for existence in my opinion.  You always come back to the answer that there was always something and that doesn't satisfy the understanding of existence.



***********
I've been having recurring dreams of circular type logic where there's this guy and I'm trying to catch him and he's evil so I have to kill him to end the evil.  I blow a big hole in him but he's just a shell filled with green goo.  After I leave the green goo runs out into the ground and he comes back as a different shell but filled with the same green goo only I don't know who he is and have to try  to figure out who he is because he always comes back as someone that is on my team.  Every time I get to the end I start all over again.  Seriously I wake up at night sitting on the side of the bed.  This all started when I was playing a good bit of COD MW3 and I think it is closely related.  It was much more shooting and war themed then.  It has always been circular though where there is never an end.  I think lately it has been more closely tied to Breaking Bad because I've been using a pipe bomb.  There is probably some horrific revelation about my personal life in this BS and I should probably not have ever mentioned it.

Edited by SECorBust, 24 January 2014 - 03:05 PM.

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#37
rwspear

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a philosophy thread containing very little philosophy and a lot of religious analysis.

i do not like discussing philosophy unless all parties realize the discussion is purely masturbation. there are no conclusions to be drawn, and no theories to be proven. the discussions may be fun but ultimately take you of out the present and leave you where you started.

there is only one philosophical truth: cogito ergo sum. i think, therefore i am. the only facet of my existence that can be proven to exist is my thought.

all else is assumption. the easiest illustration of this idea is the move the Matrix. It is fallacy to ASSUME our physical bodies exist. it is fallacy to ASSUME the earth, our universe, trees, water, society, kanye west, or peyton manning actually exist. the only assumption any of us can prove is that our 'essence' exists. the only assumption that is NOT assumption is that i exist, somewhere, as information.

stop dreaming and live! if the ideas of spirituality, philosophy, and reality interest you, please spend some time studying alan watts' teachings! the more you know, the less you know, and wisest realize it does not matter.



#38
A. Pilgrim

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View Postrwspear, on 27 January 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

a philosophy thread containing very little philosophy and a lot of religious analysis.

i do not like discussing philosophy unless all parties realize the discussion is purely masturbation. there are no conclusions to be drawn, and no theories to be proven. the discussions may be fun but ultimately take you of out the present and leave you where you started.

there is only one philosophical truth: cogito ergo sum. i think, therefore i am. the only facet of my existence that can be proven to exist is my thought.

all else is assumption. the easiest illustration of this idea is the move the Matrix. It is fallacy to ASSUME our physical bodies exist. it is fallacy to ASSUME the earth, our universe, trees, water, society, kanye west, or peyton manning actually exist. the only assumption any of us can prove is that our 'essence' exists. the only assumption that is NOT assumption is that i exist, somewhere, as information.

stop dreaming and live! if the ideas of spirituality, philosophy, and reality interest you, please spend some time studying alan watts' teachings! the more you know, the less you know, and wisest realize it does not matter.



Many of the great philosophers in history were most interestedted in tackling theology and philosophy simultaneously. If you've missed that, then you're missing out on a great deal of the contributions these philosophers have made to history.

Also, to say the discussion ended w/ Descartes would be to deny counterpoints made by the subsequent materialists whom followed dualists, such as Descartes, not to mention other subsequent philosophers such as Kant, Spinoza, Hegel, and many others. To deny their contributions would be an injustice that even Descartes would not stand, if he were alive to witness it.

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#39
rwspear

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View PostA. Pilgrim, on 16 February 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

Many of the great philosophers in history were most interestedted in tackling theology and philosophy simultaneously. If you've missed that, then you're missing out on a great deal of the contributions these philosophers have made to history.

Also, to say the discussion ended w/ Descartes would be to deny counterpoints made by the subsequent materialists whom followed dualists, such as Descartes, not to mention other subsequent philosophers such as Kant, Spinoza, Hegel, and many others. To deny their contributions would be an injustice that even Descartes would not stand, if he were alive to witness it.

i havent missed their interest in theology; i choose to observe the distinction between theology and philosophy. their contributions to theology do not interest me.

materialists and dualists do not conflict on the idea of "i think therefore i am". they define 'thought' and' 'being' differently, but there is no contradiction in their shared conclusion that our thought proves our existence. as materialists believe 'thought' to be composed of the same substance as regular matter, "cogito ergo sum" is actually a more prominent keystone in their beliefs than the dualists.



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