Jump to content

Welcome to SECTalk.com

Welcome to SECTalk.com -- The Home of 6 Straight National Titles!

You are currently accessing our site as a guest which means you can't access all of our features such as social groups, sports betting, and many more. By joining our free community you will have access to all of these great features as well as to participating in our forums, contacting other members, and much more. Registration only takes a minute and SECTalk.com is absolutely free, so please join today!

If you have any problems registering or signing in, please contact us.


Latest Topics



Latest News

Top Bettors


Top High Fived



George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Catch All Thread

- - - - -

This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
249 replies to this topic

#31
zartan

zartan
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    20,718
  • Joined:
    Nov 2007
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    8,134

View PostNeo, on 26 June 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:


HAHAHAHAHAHA!  Are you serious? You're joking right?

A 911 operator knows exactly DIDDLY SQUAT! Since we're offering quotes, let's look at the operator's quote;

"we don't need you to do that."

Just for argument's sake, that's hardly a command like that matters.

They're not there, they don't know what's going on....nothing. They go by only what they're told which can vary person to person based on perception.

As a former LEO, I can assure you that there are quite a few 911 operators that couldn't cook a pack of Ramen Noodles, let alone advise someone on a situation that is based on hearsay to say the least.

Yeah. It's always best if you ignore dispatchers and charge into a situation

#32
nova

nova

    Intergalactic planetary bulldawg!

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • Posts:
    8,777
  • Age:
    31
  • Joined:
    Dec 2009
  • Location:
    Huntsville, AL
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    4,103

View PostNextYearIsHere, on 25 June 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

The authors of the stand your ground law in Florida even said their law wouldn't apply to him. Wasn't you last year that mentioned the "fighting words" agrument about how you can't start a fight and then claim self defense if you get your ass kicked?

After looking at his head, I don't doubt that he was getting his ass kicked. But he was getting it kicked after doing something he shouldn't have been. Like I said last year, it's not murder, but if he walks, it's giving him a pass for being a nosey prick and ignoring law enforcement.

Fighting words apply if you can retreat. I can't provoke you and then immediately draw my weapon and shoot when you come after me. In that instance I have a duty to retreat. If you can't retreat and feel your life is in danger, like held down and head bashed against concrete, you can still defend yourself.

Even then, in this instance you'd have to prove fighting words applied and that he could retreat for it to even be manslaughter.

And I've never argued that what gz did was smart, but dumb and criminal aren't always the same thing. Hell my view is that private citizens don't get paid to deal with the issues that stem from even a legal shoot. Unless you're under threat of imminent harm, better to let all those cops dripping with qualified immunity deal with it.

Edited by nova, 26 June 2013 - 06:58 AM.


#33
nova

nova

    Intergalactic planetary bulldawg!

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • Posts:
    8,777
  • Age:
    31
  • Joined:
    Dec 2009
  • Location:
    Huntsville, AL
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    4,103

View PostNeo, on 25 June 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

.

As for being arrested, you can be arrested and charged with a crime and still own a CWP. it just depends on the nature of the crime and such.

In general shall issue states allow due process and only remove your ccw with a felony conviction because you can be arrested for almost anything anytime.

#34
nova

nova

    Intergalactic planetary bulldawg!

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • Posts:
    8,777
  • Age:
    31
  • Joined:
    Dec 2009
  • Location:
    Huntsville, AL
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    4,103
And here's how things probably went down IMO.

Gz really was a concerned citizen. He was following tm and tm realized it. If I had to guess, tm was somewhat hot headed like most teenage boys and over reacted to the situation. He confronted gz and things spiral out of control into a physical fight that ends in gz shooting tm in self defense. I don't think either person ever intended to get in a physical altercation and gz didn't intend to shoot tm.

Out of all the information we have I think that's the most plausible story.

#35
NextYearIsHere

NextYearIsHere
  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • Posts:
    5,569
  • Age:
    31
  • Joined:
    Sep 2007
  • Location:
    Myrtle Beach, S.C.
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    1,334

View Postnova, on 26 June 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:



Fighting words apply if you can retreat. I can't provoke you and then immediately draw my weapon and shoot when you come after me. In that instance I have a duty to retreat. If you can't retreat and feel your life is in danger, like held down and head bashed against concrete, you can still defend yourself.

Even then, in this instance you'd have to prove fighting words applied and that he could retreat for it to even be manslaughter.

And I've never argued that what gz did was smart, but dumb and criminal aren't always the same thing. Hell my view is that private citizens don't get paid to deal with the issues that stem from even a legal shoot. Unless you're under threat of imminent harm, better to let all those cops dripping with qualified immunity deal with it.

Thanks for the clarification and its good to see we have a similar view on most aspects of the case. Yeah murder should have never been the charge. The DA should have given him a lesser charge and a deal early on to avoid all this.

I'd really like to see stories like this go away. Citizens have to realize that just because they have a firearm, they are not law enforcement. You want to be a cop, go be one, otherwise quit looking for trouble.
Posted Image

You have received an infraction at SECTalk Forums.
Reason: Inappropriate Language and Going Off The Deep End ~ GAMECOCK_FAN

Just another ho hum racial and political day on SECTalk, nothing to see here. ~ Tider27

Best Rivalry on SECTalk? "NYIH vs everybody else in the Political Forum..." ~ DELTOR

#36
NextYearIsHere

NextYearIsHere
  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • Posts:
    5,569
  • Age:
    31
  • Joined:
    Sep 2007
  • Location:
    Myrtle Beach, S.C.
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    1,334

View PostNeo, on 25 June 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:



Then a crime has been committed. It's called battery.





Following the kid while on the phone with 911 is hardly harassing. This is not a crime no matter how much you want it to be.





Like I said, 911 dispatchers have ZERO legal authority to make you do a damn thing. You as a citizen, do not have to cease and desist. If you suspect that a crime is being committed, you can take those matters into your hands if you witness the criminal act.

We don't know what occurred, but going by the facts, they tend to lean towards Zimmerman's version of the facts. Secondly, on the flip-side, maybe if Martin had not committed a crime (Assault and Battery with malicious intent), he would be alive today.





This is your supposition and yet, it is not conducive to the facts.

As for being arrested, you can be arrested and charged with a crime and still own a CWP. it just depends on the nature of the crime and such.

No crime had been committed. Zimmerman was harassing him. In a day where kidnappers and molesters are all over the news, the idea that a kid should politely answer a stranger's questions about what he's doing and where he's going is stupid. Hell, I'm 30 and at times get hassled by the neighborhood watch when I go for a walk at night. I want to tell them to Posted Image off, but at my age I realize its better for me to just smile and wave at them.

I deal with teens everyday. This guy had no business following or questioning Martin and the kid would have known that. He probably said something smart and that made an already angry Zimmerman more upset. Since he is dead, we can't know whether Zimmerman was truly attacked or if he provoked him, but I have to believe that had Zimmerman not been trying to live out his cop fantasy, there is no way Martin would have attacked him.

The guy is a prick and a perfect example of how giving someone like him a gun makes them go looking for trouble
Posted Image

You have received an infraction at SECTalk Forums.
Reason: Inappropriate Language and Going Off The Deep End ~ GAMECOCK_FAN

Just another ho hum racial and political day on SECTalk, nothing to see here. ~ Tider27

Best Rivalry on SECTalk? "NYIH vs everybody else in the Political Forum..." ~ DELTOR

#37
The Joker

The Joker

    Let's put a smile on that face.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    16,692
  • Joined:
    Jul 2004
  • Location:
    Greenville, SC
  • Cash:
    0
  • High Fives:
    984
Prosecution witnesses back Zimmerman

Dispatcher debunks claim watchman disobeyed orders

Jack Cashill



SANFORD, Fla. – In the opening two days of the Florida murder trial for neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman, defense attorneys have gotten more good responses from two of the state’s key witnesses than the prosecutors.
Zimmerman is on trial for murder in the second degree in the Sanford, Fla., shooting of Trayvon Martin in February 2012.

Sean Noffke, whose reasoned advice on George Zimmerman’s call to police has made him America’s most famous police dispatcher, testified that Zimmerman didn’t actually disobey an order as reports have portrayed.

Assistant State Attorney John Guy walked Noffke through the mechanics of taking and responding to a call. In the questions that followed Guy’s goal was to imply that Zimmerman exceeded the role of a neighborhood watch coordinator and that he did so with something like vengeance, given that the “f***ing punks” were always getting away.

Guy also hoped to plant the seed that after Zimmerman finished the call with the dispatcher, he set out to hunt Martin down. The suggestion was that by first agreeing to meet the police at the community mailboxes, then at his truck, and then just through phone contact, Zimmerman would have the freedom to roam.

But Guy may have tripped himself up when he asked Noffke why he didn’t order Zimmerman not to follow Martin. As Noffke said, for liability reasons, the dispatcher could not give commands, only suggestions. This essentially put a lie to the myth Zimmerman “disobeyed” the dispatcher.

At the beginning of jury selection two weeks ago, the AP had written, “Zimmerman called 911, got out of his vehicle and followed Martin behind the townhomes despite being told not to by a police dispatcher.”

As Noffke’s testimony made clear, Zimmerman called the non-emergency number, not 911, exited the truck and started following Martin before the dispatcher suggested that he not follow Martin. In addition, the dispatcher is not a police officer.
Defense attorney Mark O’Mara has been consistently strong in cross-examination. O’Mara asked Noffke whether his two questions to Zimmerman about the path Martin was taking might have inspired him to leave his truck and maintain visual contact.

Noffke answered, “I understand how someone could have misinterpreted the intent of that.”

Through O’Mara’s questioning, Noffke also undermined the state’s implication that Zimmerman was enraged and keen on vengeance.

If anything, state witness Wendy Dorival, an African-American who served as volunteer program coordinator for the Sanford police department when Zimmerman’s community was organizing its neighborhood watch, proved even more helpful to Zimmerman’s cause.

On cross-examination by defense attorney Don West, Dorival spoke repeatedly of the many burglaries in the community.
She told specifically of how she had met with a female neighbor of Zimmerman’s who had endured a home invasion and was “still shaken up by it.”

On the subject of gun ownership or concealed carry, Dorival remained fully agnostic. It was not a subject that she ever brought up at neighborhood watch meetings.

But Dorival spoke highly of Zimmerman throughout and repeated the point frequently that she and her colleagues “always encourage [neighborhood watch people] to call.”

“You err on the side of making the call?” asked West. “Yes,” said Dorival.

“When something about them doesn’t seem quite right?” asked West again. “Yes,” said Dorival. The neighborhood watch coordinator is the “eyes and ears” of the community.


http://www.wnd.com/2...2CAWWBq52OuE.99
Blu-ray Disc Movie Collection: 927
Newest Purchase: Sin City: A Dame To Kill For

Gov. Gary Johnson for President in 2016


"Honor the vision of your founders, and respect the most sublime Constitution devised by human intelligence." - Daniel Hannan - British Member Of Parliament.

#38
zartan

zartan
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    20,718
  • Joined:
    Nov 2007
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    8,134

View Postnova, on 26 June 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

And here's how things probably went down IMO.

Gz really was a concerned citizen. He was following tm and tm realized it. If I had to guess, tm was somewhat hot headed like most teenage boys and over reacted to the situation. He confronted gz and things spiral out of control into a physical fight that ends in gz shooting tm in self defense. I don't think either person ever intended to get in a physical altercation and gz didn't intend to shoot tm.

Out of all the information we have I think that's the most plausible story.

For once, I agree 100%.

This did not have to happen

#39
Titans4Vols

Titans4Vols
  • Members
  • PipPip
  • Posts:
    2,924
  • Age:
    25
  • Joined:
    Nov 2011
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    1,945

View PostNeo, on 26 June 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

HAHAHAHAHAHA!  Are you serious? You're joking right?

A 911 operator knows exactly DIDDLY SQUAT! Since we're offering quotes, let's look at the operator's quote;

"we don't need you to do that."

Just for argument's sake, that's hardly a command like that matters.

They're not there, they don't know what's going on....nothing. They go by only what they're told which can vary person to person based on perception.

As a former LEO, I can assure you that there are quite a few 911 operators that couldn't cook a pack of Ramen Noodles, let alone advise someone on a situation that is based on hearsay to say the least.

I lol @ the fact that you're trying to insult 911 operators and their advice when their advice would have prevented a fight and a murder/self defense/whatever you want to believe happened.

There's absolutely no defending Zimmerman getting out of his vehicle and confronting Martin. Martin never broke any laws, so it's not like Zimmerman can claim he was trying to protect anyone by getting out, either.

You can try and spin it with your experiences with dumb operators, but the operator was correct here.

-Martin wasn't breaking any laws
-Zimmerman had no training
-911 operator said leave it alone and that the police would handle it

Seems pretty cut and dry to me. There's no defending Zimmerman's getting out of his vehicle in the first place.

One does not simply throw towards Cameron Sutton.

Posted Image


#40
thedruebanks

thedruebanks
  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • Posts:
    5,207
  • Age:
    23
  • Joined:
    Aug 2009
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    925
pretty sure that witness sealed zimmermans life in jail

#41
jacobp

jacobp

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    25,877
  • Age:
    33
  • Joined:
    Jul 2007
  • Location:
    NWA
  • Cash:
    0
  • High Fives:
    7,034

View PostCaligula, on 26 June 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

pretty sure that witness sealed zimmermans life in jail
Care to elaborate? Everything I've read said today was a banner day for the defense. What did I miss?
Posted Image

#42
rwspear

rwspear

    game recognize game and you lookin kinda unfamiliar right now

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • Posts:
    4,420
  • Age:
    27
  • Joined:
    May 2010
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    2,185
so

youre telling me a fat dude with no professional arms training is able to fatally shoot an attacker while getting his head slammed into the pavement.

sounds legit

#43
zartan

zartan
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    20,718
  • Joined:
    Nov 2007
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    8,134
Or alternatively:

An unarmed 155-lb adolescent is a mortal threat to a 200-lb man with a firearm

#44
The Joker

The Joker

    Let's put a smile on that face.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    16,692
  • Joined:
    Jul 2004
  • Location:
    Greenville, SC
  • Cash:
    0
  • High Fives:
    984

View Postzartan, on 26 June 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Or alternatively:

An unarmed 155-lb adolescent is a mortal threat to a 200-lb man with a firearm



adolescent????

Is that what they call adults now? You know that at 17, you can join the military pending your graduation from high school on a deferred enlistment right?

Something about "adolescent" and being 17 years old do not mix.
Blu-ray Disc Movie Collection: 927
Newest Purchase: Sin City: A Dame To Kill For

Gov. Gary Johnson for President in 2016


"Honor the vision of your founders, and respect the most sublime Constitution devised by human intelligence." - Daniel Hannan - British Member Of Parliament.

#45
zartan

zartan
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Posts:
    20,718
  • Joined:
    Nov 2007
  • Cash:
    1,000
  • High Fives:
    8,134

View PostNeo, on 26 June 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:


adolescent????

Is that what they call adults now? You know that at 17, you can join the military pending your graduation from high school on a deferred enlistment right?

Something about "adolescent" and being 17 years old do not mix.

It's high school age, my man. If an adult man slept with your 17 year old daughter, are you cool with that?

Edit: I apologize for the tasteless nature of that analogy, but hopefully my point about age gets across