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Common Core

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#31
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View Postsmokeyone, on 04 April 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

it was a bipartisian effort led by Kennedy that gets blamed on Bush but other than just being factual accurate it doesnt matter. Any system that is going to decrease the number of kids graduating is going to fail. We live in an age when you cant keep score in sports cuase it hurts kids feelings so I just dont see the bar being raised above the barest most basic level outside private and charter schools. We just lack the will to break the teachers union nor to tell a kid they failed.  

Hogan even gets it, why don't you? It's not about pass or fail, it's about educated kids and finding out what they need to focus on.
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#32
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because education has become yet another floated social service that is more concerned with extending its role and more funding than its original goal. And thats what this latest program is about, make noise get more funding, dont address the issues. No incentive to excel, no punishment for failure.

View PostNextYearIsHere, on 04 April 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

Hogan even gets it, why don't you? It's not about pass or fail, it's about educated kids and finding out what they need to focus on.

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#33
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View Postsmokeyone, on 04 April 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

because education has become yet another floated social service that is more concerned with extending its role and more funding than its original goal. And thats what this latest program is about, make noise get more funding, dont address the issues. No incentive to excel, no punishment for failure.

It's clear education definitely failed you.
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#34
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View PostNextYearIsHere, on 04 April 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

It's clear education definitely failed you.

I was fortunate enough to see the education systems of 3 countries and 5 states covering a wide array of what is possible. NOTHING that doesnt address the core issues in our system is more than a waste of time. The common core is just NCLB redo.

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#35
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@NextYearIsHere

Here is the reform I would like to see: every 4 years a standardized test. Those results used to assign a track. You stay in your track for 4 years and retest. If you retest to a higher track you have the option to move up. If you test lower you have the option to retest once per 4 year cycle.

The tracks are
top 25% college prep/professional track. Core plus advanced stuff not on the core standardized test

middle 50% standard education plus trade school stuff not on the standardized test

bottom 25%  standard education only

Lets the kids go at their pace and with kids that will pace with them.

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#36
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View Postsmokeyone, on 05 April 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

@NextYearIsHere

Here is the reform I would like to see: every 4 years a standardized test. Those results used to assign a track. You stay in your track for 4 years and retest. If you retest to a higher track you have the option to move up. If you test lower you have the option to retest once per 4 year cycle.

The tracks are
top 25% college prep/professional track. Core plus advanced stuff not on the core standardized test

middle 50% standard education plus trade school stuff not on the standardized test

bottom 25%  standard education only

Lets the kids go at their pace and with kids that will pace with them.

And that's great and all, but the only way to do it is at the federal level so all 50 states are on the same page. People like yourself will fight that tooth and nail.

Education is not a state's rights issue, but conservatives WILL NEVER GET ON BOARD WITH THAT. The solution is irrelevant as long as the minority party refuses to implement it.
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#37
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View PostNextYearIsHere, on 05 April 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

And that's great and all, but the only way to do it is at the federal level so all 50 states are on the same page. People like yourself will fight that tooth and nail.

Education is not a state's rights issue, but conservatives WILL NEVER GET ON BOARD WITH THAT. The solution is irrelevant as long as the minority party refuses to implement it.

It can be implemented in states with failing schools. There is no reason why this cant be run at the state level by the state or even at the local level. In fact with Charter schools we are already seeing the top % quasi use this model. Given a little more time you will see the top go to Charter, the middle get the best of the public education and the bottom segregated out.

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#38
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View Postsmokeyone, on 06 April 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

It can be implemented in states with failing schools. There is no reason why this cant be run at the state level by the state or even at the local level. In fact with Charter schools we are already seeing the top % quasi use this model. Given a little more time you will see the top go to Charter, the middle get the best of the public education and the bottom segregated out.

You just don't get it, do you? I feel like I'm explaining a rainbow to a dog. There isn't even a standard way to access who is "failing" and who isn't because the state's are making this sh*t up as they go along. A passing SC student could very well be a failing Colorado student. And btw, Charter schools are great and all, but again, their schools are largely left up to how they want to assign them. Just like home schooled kids. Some are brilliant, some just score well cause they are only taught that which they will have to know to pass their state required exams, and many are all over the place because they have no standard curriculum or certified instructors.

And btw, I don't mean this to be rude, but you're the problem when it comes to education. You willingness to cut up students into top, middle, and bottom are why we have the system we do now. There is no bottom, only people that have career and life goals different than others. They are not failing, the system is failing to address their needs and talents.

The state's should have no influence on the core of education nor should they be allowed to decide what is or isn't a passing grade. Hell, not only are grades all over the place, we can't even get an accurate figure on the drop out problem because most states define it differently.

States are the problem, not the solution.
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#39
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View PostNextYearIsHere, on 06 April 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

You just don't get it, do you? I feel like I'm explaining a rainbow to a dog. There isn't even a standard way to access who is "failing" and who isn't because the state's are making this sh*t up as they go along. A passing SC student could very well be a failing Colorado student. And btw, Charter schools are great and all, but again, their schools are largely left up to how they want to assign them. Just like home schooled kids. Some are brilliant, some just score well cause they are only taught that which they will have to know to pass their state required exams, and many are all over the place because they have no standard curriculum or certified instructors.

And btw, I don't mean this to be rude, but you're the problem when it comes to education. You willingness to cut up students into top, middle, and bottom are why we have the system we do now. There is no bottom, only people that have career and life goals different than others. They are not failing, the system is failing to address their needs and talents.

The state's should have no influence on the core of education nor should they be allowed to decide what is or isn't a passing grade. Hell, not only are grades all over the place, we can't even get an accurate figure on the drop out problem because most states define it differently.

States are the problem, not the solution.

So keep going as we do now, the best and brightest limited by the pace of the slowest. Everyone stays together while the whole falls further behind. The smarter kids get bored and the slower give up.

Its pretty easy to tell the failing schools, look for the schools failing to meet standardized test scores and graduation rates. Look for schools with high instances of arrests and issues.

As to a difference in the quality of education, there is a huge difference in involvement by families and how they view education. In North carolina they hold higher standards than Ga. The system I want to see isnt needed in some states because the difference in the top 25% and middle 50% isnt as great in others. Thats one reason a national one size fits all just isnt going to work. Many school systems are meeting or exceeding goals and thats great. Some areas just view education in a better light than others. Its unrealistic to think you can change that with an order from washington. My system takes into account this and works within the bounds of reality to meet the needs of everyone.

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#40
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View Postsmokeyone, on 06 April 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

So keep going as we do now, the best and brightest limited by the pace of the slowest. Everyone stays together while the whole falls further behind. The smarter kids get bored and the slower give up.

Nope.

View Postsmokeyone, on 06 April 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

Its pretty easy to tell the failing schools, look for the schools failing to meet standardized test scores and graduation rates. Look for schools with high instances of arrests and issues.

Strike 2


View Postsmokeyone, on 06 April 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

As to a difference in the quality of education, there is a huge difference in involvement by families and how they view education. In North carolina they hold higher standards than Ga. The system I want to see isnt needed in some states because the difference in the top 25% and middle 50% isnt as great in others. Thats one reason a national one size fits all just isnt going to work. Many school systems are meeting or exceeding goals and thats great. Some areas just view education in a better light than others. Its unrealistic to think you can change that with an order from washington. My system takes into account this and works within the bounds of reality to meet the needs of everyone.

Swing and a miss, you're out.


Your system writes off millions and targets demographics you dislike. It will cause the gap to grow, not to shrink. You better start stalking up on ammo if this ever happens as whole districts will become war zones.


Open a school, close a prison... You;d literally be shooting for the opposite.
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#41
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Common Core is a Progressive Movement...nothing more, nothing less and will be gone as fast as it has appeared on the scene.
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#42
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View PostNextYearIsHere, on 06 April 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

Nope.



Strike 2




Swing and a miss, you're out.


Your system writes off millions and targets demographics you dislike. It will cause the gap to grow, not to shrink. You better start stalking up on ammo if this ever happens as whole districts will become war zones.


Open a school, close a prison... You;d literally be shooting for the opposite.

Sure because the way its going now is producing such fine results. And how is providing targeted curriculum writing anyone off? If 90% of the test group scores in the top 25% range then 90% go to the top track. If 90% score in the bottom 25% track thats were they go. With the option to put in work and move up. My system could be put in place in a 4 year period to a substandard school system and identify those that need help while rewarding those that can handle more. How is that a bad idea?

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#43
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