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[RedRebelBlue]

http://sports.yahoo....aW9ucw--;_ylv=3

So why IS this...? As a conference, we can kick ass in whatever sport we choose.

Basketball seems to be the one sport where apathy takes over.

Edited by RedRebelBlue, 15 March 2013 - 08:46 AM.

[hog_heaven]

I don't know. It is aggravating. Being an Arkansas fan in my early 30s, I never really had a memory of good Arkansas football until Houston Nutt got there. I remember some of the late 80s teams and I defiantly remember losing to the Citadel, but what I really remember was Nolan's basketball team.

Watching him leading his teams, always with his cowboy boots and yelling at his players. I wanted to be a Razorback and play in the "40 minutes of Hell" system.

I remember watching them play in the SWC, battling the Texas, Houston, Baylor and A&M for SWC bragging rights and tourney championships.

I remember Ark going to the SEC where the "Mighty Kentucky Wildcats" ruled and beating them at Barnhill the first time they came to town. I remember the Lee Mayberry, May Day, Oliver Miller "Big O" days, and into the fights with Kentucky and Mashburn against Williamson and winning the '94 championship. Even after losing our best player from the title team, Williamson and making it to the Champ game in '95 before losing to UCLA and the Baron brothers.

When I started watching sports in the late 80s, Arkansas was always a basketball school, and then a basketball/track school.

Watching last nights game, you see Vandy pull away and just dominate. But after the foul on Clark for elbowing the Vandy player, I watched the old Hogs play. They looked like some of the 90s teams for the last 10 mins. Just like I saw against Florida at Bud Walton. It is so aggravating knowing that these kids can compete on a high level, but the interest is not there.

We have Mizzou, UF, Ark and Kentucky in this conference. And with teams like Ole Miss, Vandy, Tenn and Miss St making tourney runs quite often, this should be one of the deepest conferences in the country! Not one of the weakest!

Edited by hog_heaven, 15 March 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[RedRebelBlue]

hog_heaven, on 15 March 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

I don't know. It is aggravating. Being an Arkansas fan in my early 30s, I never really had a memory of good Arkansas football until Houston Nutt got there. I remember some of the late 80s teams and I defiantly remember losing to the Citadel, but what I really remember was Nolan's basketball team.

Watching him leading his teams, always with his cowboy boots and yelling at his players. I wanted to be a Razorback and play in the "40 minutes of Hell" system.

I remember watching them play in the SWC, battling the Texas, Houston, Baylor and A&M for SWC bragging rights and tourney championships.

I remember Ark going to the SEC where the "Mighty Kentucky Wildcats" ruled and beating them at Barnhill the first time they came to town. I remember the Lee Mayberry, May Day, Oliver Miller "Big O" days, and into the fights with Kentucky and Mashburn against Williamson and winning the '94 championship. Even after losing our best player from the title team, Williamson and making it to the Champ game in '95 before losing to UCLA and the Baron brothers.

When I started watching sports in the late 80s, Arkansas was always a basketball school, and then a basketball/track school.

Watching last nights game, you see Vandy pull away and just dominate. But after the foul on Clark for elbowing the Vandy player, I watched the old Hogs play. They looked like some of the 90s teams for the last 10 mins. Just like I saw against Florida at Bud Walton. It is so aggravating knowing that these kids can compete on a high level, but the interest is not there.

We have Mizzou, UF, Ark and Kentucky in this conference. And with teams like Ole Miss, Vandy, Tenn and Miss St making tourney runs quite often, this should be one of the deepest conferences in the country! Not one of the weakest!

Is it a culture thing?

Is it simply the fact that, for the most part, interest in basketball simply does not exist in the South, outside of the metropolitan areas...?

Nolan broke all kinds of barriers when he busted through the door at Fayetteville. I'm VERY well aware of 40 minutes of hell, because I actually grew up living and dying with Memphis basketball. Larry Finch and Nolan coached some spectacular games against each other. (1995 NCAA Tournament....hand check, my ass)

As my love for Ole Miss has grown more and more over the years, it is SO frustrating this time of year...because I've seen small glimpses of what Ole Miss COULD be in basketball. I'm truly hoping that with the new arena being built, maybe the potential down here can finally be reached.

Edited by RedRebelBlue, 15 March 2013 - 10:04 AM.

[hog_heaven]

I am not sure. It is difficult to put a finger on what it is but I think basketball as a game is falling off. Look at the average scores from the 70s-90s compared to the ones you are getting now. I remember when games would be 45-40 at the half, and the games haven't shortened. The lack of team passing, fundamentals and players staying until their Jr/Sr year has hurt the game and I think that is what has hurt the SEC the most.

Joe Johnson for instance, played two seasons at Arkansas, now, he would have been a "one and done" player. Look at Kentucky... They were dominate last year, fighting for a bubble spot this year.

Yes, that was a hand check btw...

I understand your frustration with the small glances. I got my hopes up this year, thinking we could beat teams like SC, LSU, and Vandy (down this year) at their place, compete at neutral locations and make a run... We have two awesome big men coming in from recruiting next year and most of our players are young. I have my hopes up now that BJ Young (Soph) and Powell (JR) will stay another year, but I am sure BJ is gone after this year.

As far as the conference as a whole, I agree with the article  Fans have to be more involved. Could you imagine how much noise you would here from Auburn fans if they went 10 years without a bowl game, or Carolina fans if they didn't make it to the CWS? Forde was right on, and he is always covering the conference. He has nothing but good points and as a basketball fan first, I am ashamed that our two "solid" bids, includes a team that is 6th in the conference.

A part of me always wants Ark to dominate in basketball. But now I honestly want more SEC teams to dominate. (Like a Big East model)

[UK4Life]

Arky, Florida, UK, and Mizzou should be consistently making the tournament. Stallings more often then not gets his team into the tourney as well. We should average at least 5 teams a season tbh. We make more money then any other conference but like Ford said, a lot of sec fans don't give a damn to attend the game except a few certain programs. I believe Martin will also have Tennessee making consistent runs in the future.

[hog_heaven]

(Can't believe I am about to say this) But I agree with @UK4Life... Honestly, I think we should be getting 6 teams in annually, with a change at the bottom and surprise teams making it up to 9-10. We should honestly have as many teams make the NCAA as we do make bowl games every year.

Fans of teams like Auburn, LSU, UGA, and USC need to stand up and start demanding it of their ADs..

Football pays the bills, but basketball opened the door to national collegiate sports.

[volimhtown]

hog_heaven, on 15 March 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

I am not sure. It is difficult to put a finger on what it is but I think basketball as a game is falling off. Look at the average scores from the 70s-90s compared to the ones you are getting now. I remember when games would be 45-40 at the half, and the games haven't shortened. The lack of team passing, fundamentals and players staying until their Jr/Sr year has hurt the game and I think that is what has hurt the SEC the most.

Seems this subject has come up several times at about this time of the year for the past several years. I think hog heaven makes some really good points, but let me add to those. In the SEC you're talking about schools that already lack a historical interest in the sport from the fans of those schools. With Kentucky and to a lesser degree Arkansas being the exceptions of course. Even in the college basketball heydays (however/whenever you want to define that) basketball was always a distant second fiddle in the SEC.

Fast forward to today... how do you take a sport that is obviously a shell of what it used to be in terms of the overall quality in and of itself and try to generate more interest in it? Look... throw out the financial argument. That OBVIOUSLY has no bearing in it. Otherwise the SEC would be dominating and this conversation would be mute. I think the NBA has been the worst enemy of college basketball and I really don't see things getting any better.

Basketball (for whatever reason) is just a different animal than other sports. Yes it's a team game but unlike other sports, those teams with the best player or two can dominate their opponents which leads to a completely different type of selfishness among it's better players. Look how early the corruption begins these days in those young players that show promise. Kids in elementary school routinely get plucked up by greedy, self-serving AAU "coaches" and are catered to for the rest of their entire schooling. They are shuttled through the processes, sent to those select High School programs which have ties to AAU, all in an effort to get said kid to the NBA. College basketball has become nothing more than a one to two year pit-stop for those select players. I mean seriously.... unlike the other major sports, kids no longer dream about starring at Kentucky or Kansas or North Carolina... they are programmed and focused on only one thing...to play in the NBA.

To take it a step further, I think this entire process has also diminished interest in the sport at the high school levels which leads to a loss of main-stream interest. Go back 20, 30, and even 40 years ago, going to High School basketball games was a big deal in rural and middle America. Never as big as Friday night football, but certainly a big part of high school life. People who hate the NBA always talk about the "urbanization" and reference the "pop culture" mentality of the NBA game as reasons they don't connect to it. Well, where do you think this started? Your better High School athletic programs these days aren't bringing in kids and talent confined within the district borders, they are "trucking in the talent" from wherever they can find it and building superior HS programs. The local kids can't compete and the community is left with expecting to support kids they have no connection to. Either that or those select inner-city AAU supported programs at schools you would never dream of sending your kid to outside of playing basketball dominate the sport. In either scenario, you are killing interest in the sport as a whole simply based upon how it's structured. This apathy in the current college game is bred from mis-management of the sport at the younger levels.

And to get back to Hog Heaven's points, all of this leads to a game that's just lacking any sort of consistent fundamentals. Watching that Florida-Kentucky game last week was BRUTAL. The so-called experts were giving Kentucky all kinds of kudos for "gutting out" a must-win game over a good opponent. Well, I don't know what these experts were watching but it wasn't the same game I was watching. The Gators flat out choked that game away with terrible shooting and horrible decision making. It was hardly about anything Kentucky was doing well. Despite that, the Gators STILL almost won that game. I watched that abomination of a game and kept thinking that these are considered two of the top teams in the conference?? And there's really any question as to why there's such little interest in the game these days?? And I'm not picking on these two teams. Same can be said about my Vols. Their late season "surge" was FAR more about the lack of quality competition as it was about good basketball. That said, they went 1-4 against the likes of Alabama and Georgia.   This was a NCAA Tourney bubble team??? Yikes!! Kudos to the competition committee for putting much more deserving mid-major teams in the tourney over my Vols or any other SEC team by the way!

In summation I don't think there's any sort of easy or quick fix to the apathy problem in college basketball. Until the culture as a whole changes at the younger levels, I think you're going to continue to see a decline in interest in the college game. In this day and age of technology and so many more options of things to do for people to entertain themselves with, it's hard to see interest in a game that's not played very well, even at it's highest level, generate more support.

[UK4Life]

This year was a down year for all of college basketball though. Last years UK, UNC, and Syracuse teams would of dominated everyone this year.

[bbqit]

more teams have a chance of improving in basketball because in only takes a couple of players to become a tourny team. not true in football or baseball. that is why it is good the selection committee pays attention to them.

i also feel basketball is a dying sport right now. in the pros they base who fouled on who has the biggest contract. they have been doing this since the late 80s. i don't even watch pro ball anymore. it got ridiculous. what happens in the pros can dribble down to the college level. this year i saw more muggings not called than i ever have. they are killing the game with bad reffing.

[cocky4ever]

my two cents....

He says SEC basketball sucks because we don't care, I say we don't care because SEC basketball sucks. Now, I'm not saying we don't care in the same sense he is saying it. It bothers me that SC basketball is bad right now, so I care. I still watch the games(though towards the end of Horn's time here it had become unwatchable). But if Im not mistaken we spent around a million dollars to get rid of Horn last year instead of keeping him for another year. So we care. The fans here care. And we will probably be getting better. Can't speak for other schools, but some are already good at basketball and I would assume others are trying to improve.


We have the money and resources, but one thing that hurts us is the same thing that hurts the acc in football. We share a geographic footprint with the acc, and a lot of the top notch players are going to go to to those schools. Sure UK and UF will get some good talent(and actually SC is stepping up in that dept.), but overall the best players down here are going to go somewhere else. Just like the best football players are usually drawn to the SEC schools. But with conference realignment shaking things up, and the acc already seeming to lose some of it's luster, I expect the SEC to start stepping up in that department.

Sorry if that's just a rehash of what volimhtown said...didn't read that wall of text.

Edited by cocky4ever, 18 March 2013 - 06:27 AM.