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[Noah]

First there was denial, then panic, then hope – now there is nagging concern this downturn simply won't come to an end

This also comes as no surprise. Businesses will only invest if they perceive growing demand for their goods and services. But the dilemma for the CEOs gathered in Davos is that the policies they have championed in the past – fiscal austerity, weaker trade unions, aggressive cost cutting – have hammered consumer spending. In the past, spending could be supported by rising household debt, but the banks don't want to lend and consumers don't want to borrow.

This is a recipe for continued economic torpor. Three things would help: fixing the banks, a reining back of austerity and a new social compact to ensure that productivity gains are once again shared by capital and labour.

http://www.guardian....ial-panic-doubt

Edited by Noah, 25 January 2013 - 06:33 AM.

[bbqit]

I've been telling yall for years. Maybe longer looking at my birthdays. The people running this country, not just politicians, are the same people who went thru the drug induced 60's and early 70's. They are the biggest "me people" this country has ever seen. My granddad used to tell me that good business was when both parties made money. That's not true with these folks. They want it all and don't care how hard whatever hits the public. Once they get out of the way we may get back on the right track. I will be retired or dead by then so let me know if I'm right by either a note to the old folks home or a prayer.

[SECats]

As long as liberals are running the show we are ALL hosed.

[Noah]

SECats, on 25 January 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

As long as liberals are running the show we are ALL hosed.

The only difference between democrats and republicans are the lies they tell you on election day.  They both treat our money like drunk sailors on leave.

[nova]

Ehh, not so much.  The problems we have today are one's of demographics and too much debt.  In order to set ourselves up for a real recovery, we've got to experience some real pain, beyond what we're seeing now.  All we're doing at the moment is trying to keep the bubble inflated and it's gonna hurt worse when it finally pops...

[SECats]

Noah, on 25 January 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

The only difference between democrats and republicans are the lies they tell you on election day.  They both treat our money like drunk sailors on leave.

Wrong.

One is bad on spending, the other is driving our country down the toilet....big difference.

[bbqit]

SECats, on 25 January 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Wrong.

One is bad on spending, the other is driving our country down the toilet....big difference.

I get your point and it isn't a bad one. Yet I see it more like championship wrestling. One guy is out there tellin ya what he is going to do regardless of what anybody that tries to stop him says. Then the other guy is out there doing the same thing and the fans start choosing sides. Then they go back into the dressing room, take in a beer or two and decide what they are going to do when they face off. What happens then? Ah, you have to wait till the next time they go at it. Nothing happened except for things the fans get to argue about. Then you wait for next week. Guess what? Same thing and nothing happens again. Just more for the fans to talk about while the whole time they are collecting a check, having a drink and laughing at the idiots that think its real.

[SECats]

bbqit, on 25 January 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

I get your point and it isn't a bad one. Yet I see it more like championship wrestling. One guy is out there tellin ya what he is going to do regardless of what anybody that tries to stop him says. Then the other guy is out there doing the same thing and the fans start choosing sides. Then they go back into the dressing room, take in a beer or two and decide what they are going to do when they face off. What happens then? Ah, you have to wait till the next time they go at it. Nothing happened except for things the fans get to argue about. Then you wait for next week. Guess what? Same thing and nothing happens again. Just more for the fans to talk about while the whole time they are collecting a check, having a drink and laughing at the idiots that think its real.

I stand by my statement.

One group is irresponsible.  The other is irresponsible AND stupid.

[Noah]

SECats, on 25 January 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

I stand by my statement.

One group is irresponsible.  The other is irresponsible AND stupid.

As long as the politicians can get you to point the finger at the other side, then they win.

Game over.

It's somebody else's fault so all I can do is wring my hands and call them names.

Now who is stupid?

[SECats]

Noah, on 25 January 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

As long as the politicians can get you to point the finger at the other side, then they win.

Game over.

It's somebody else's fault so all I can do is wring my hands and call them names.

Now who is stupid?

You think I need politicians to get me to point at the other side?!?!  All I need is for them to state their opinions and that's sufficient ammo.

Talk about stupid?!?!

[nova]

Yeah, about that bubble, or actually 30 year never ending bubble...

http://finance.yahoo...Y3Rpb25z;_ylv=3

[The Doctor]

Noah, on 25 January 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

The only difference between democrats and republicans are the lies they tell you on election day.  They both treat our money like drunk sailors on leave.

Partisan politics is really the root of all of our inefficiencies in government. You need conservatism and liberalism both in congress. Both bring valid ideas to the table, the problem is to get and stay elected in this country you have to toe the party line. If you don't, the powers that be in the respective parties will make sure they can get a yes man in their in your spot.

[ForwardRebels]

Noah, on 25 January 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

Three things would help: fixing the banks, a reining back of austerity and a new social compact to ensure that productivity gains are once again shared by capital and labour.

http://www.guardian....ial-panic-doubt

I agree that banks need fixing. It should be understood by banks that from here on out, there is no more "too big to fail" nonsense.
To have proper capitalism, there are going to be successes, and there are going to be failures. There should be no subsidizing failure.

I absolutely disagree, and do so most vehemently, that austerity needs to be rolled back. In all of the countries highlighted, any austerity that has been introduced was never enough to begin with. This is always the fault of Keynesian economic thought. Keynesians always think they can inflate away monetary woes. One cannot do so. Although not highlighted, the US is in for a rude awakening once this Ben Bernanke-induced  bout of Keynesiansism finally bursts like the housing market did. I've got some bad news for him. There is another massive bubble about to burst; and that is the student loan debt bubble.

[nova]

ForwardRebels, on 25 January 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

I absolutely disagree, and do so most vehemently, that austerity needs to be rolled back. In all of the countries highlighted, any austerity that has been introduced was never enough to begin with. This is always the fault of Keynesian economic thought. Keynesians always think they can inflate away monetary woes. One cannot do so. Although not highlighted, the US is in for a rude awakening once this Ben Bernanke-induced  bout of Keynesiansism finally bursts like the housing market did. I've got some bad news for him. There is another massive bubble about to burst; and that is the student loan debt bubble.

Not a single one of the highlighted countries implemented real austerity to begin with.  They used the old "baseline budgeting" trick to say, oh we didn't increase spending as much as we originally intended so that's a cut.

The one and only country that implemented actual real austerity is Latvia, and guess which Eurozone country is the only one experiencing real gains in economic growth?  When the problem is one of debt, more debt will not fix it, just like drinking more will not cure an alcoholic...

[zartan]

More spin from nova, it's so tired.

Our situation is exactly like Greece's, he says. We need austerity!

The UK tries austerity and it fails.

That wasn't real austerity, he says.

Suuuuure