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[The Doctor]

GatorUnvrsty, on 18 January 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

So? I listen to that stuff too. What people listen to doesn't make them hippies. Hippies were typically well-educated college students and professors with a cause (often a very admirable cause), an affinity for open-minded thinking, weed, peace, love, music, and sex. And like any demographic, there were good and bad examples.

These days, what people call themselves and what other people label them as are both usually grossly inaccurate.

Most of the people I know from NC are NASCAR junkies and/or rednecks... redundant, I know. I have some family up there that fled Miami as it got exceedingly dangerous to live there, and they're not rednecks, hillbillies, or hippies; just average, professional people with a family. I used to go skiing up there a lot, and my father stays in the mountains up there for about 2 or 3 months every year, and always loves it; but that's what little I know about the state.

Oh I'm not trying to say there aren't a lot of rednecks. All the people I know from NC are at Ole Miss in my fraternity. They are hippy-ish in that they have an affinity for "weed, peace, love, music, and sex.", and they are nothing like the stereotypical deep southerner. As far as the state itself I cannot judge, just the handful I know.

[Show Stopper]

Chainsaw Massaquoi, on 19 January 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

I think that's where the major conference players are headed.  Probably to just get out in front of it.

If the SEC does add any combo of the 4 main mentioned at least they'll still be in the South.

Amen to that brother!

[Darth Vader]

I just want them to be done with all the realignment and expansions long enough that I can catch back up on what team is in which conference. Right now the Big 10, ACC, & Big East are one massive jumbled mess to me.

[GamecockDieHard]

Duke and North Carolina value their rivalry too much to split up.  NC State used to be a part of that triangle but not so much anymore.  NC State and VT would be a better SEC fit and also broaden the regional television footprint more so than UNC/Duke.  I think NC State would jump at the chance to get out of the Tar Hole and Dookie shadow.  16 teams make the cut for 4 (16-team) Super Conferences that would fold nicely into an 8 team playoff for the national championship.  (sidebar) The comment about Gamecocks not wanting UNC in the conference because of getting called "Carolina" is probably the dumbest comment I've read in this thread.  Most Gamecocks understand that the world knows UNC is Carolina and SoCal is universally known as USC.  That argument is so worn out.  However, we don't call the Gamecocks "Carolina" or "USC" to capitalize on the other brands.  We do it because it's easy and it's factual.  People that keep bringing that up are outsiders that don't know what they're talking about.

[Gidnik]

Wont believe any of this until i see it.

[Gidnik]

"I dont have a direct knowledge of the discussion only what i hear from friends at wvu".... seems legit

[CrimsonWarrior]

UNC has the potential to be a good football school with a move to the SEC East. Not quite to the level of A&M but better than Mizzou

[GatorUnvrsty]

cocky4ever, on 19 January 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:

Everyone is looking at it from a "what makes us more appealing when we sit down to negotiate a tv contract". That's why GatorU was way off in saying it would be ok to get wake forest. Just because they're in NC doesn't mean lots if people there are watching their games.

The best option would be to get unc and vt, but duke and unc aren't splitting up. The next best bet would be nc state and vt(I'd like it better anyway). There are lots of nc state fans, and they would be like A&M on a slightly smaller scale. They care about athletics and have lots of resources, but have lived in the shadow of unc and duke. If they join the SEC they'd move quickly and bring a lot to the table. And vt is basically an SEC school in VA already so that's a no brainer.

That's hardly "way off"; I listed them last because they're a private school and have the smallest fan base of the group... I primarily only included them because they're 1 of 4 teams in the state, not 1 of the best options there.

Regardless, much like Vanderbilt, they have outstanding academics, a substantial endowment of $1.5 billion (UF's is only $1.3), and loyal fans who show up on game day, partcularly if they're playing well. In fact, it may surprise you to learn they show up better than 1 of the other programs we're considering.

In 2012, despite going 5-7, WF had more fans at their games on average than Duke, even though for much of the season Duke and Cutcliffe looked like they might be bringing Duke vast improvement and some real success. And not only did they average more fans per game, they were more loyal, too, filling their stadium to 92% of capacity for the season while Duke only sold out 83% of theirs.

Additionally, WF's attendance was not far removed nationally from several other ACC teams'. Pitt, who joins the ACC this year was #59; BC was #65; Maryland, who's leaving this year, was #66;  WF was #71; Duke was #72; and Syracuse, who joins this year was #75.

And if we go by fan loyalty or passion, whose fans show up to fill their stadium, WF jumps up to #44 nationally (#5 in ACC), right behind #43 FSU, and ahead of other ACC programs UNC (#55), BC (#57), Duke (#58), GT (#66), UVA (#75), Syracuse (#81), Maryland (#85), Pitt (#96), and Miami (#97).

So, maybe it's not so far-fetched after all to think they have a pretty decent, devoted fan base... considering their fans show up better than 9 of the other ACC teams. True, as a small school, they have fewer fans overall; but it's clear the fans they do have are a whole helluva lot more interested in their football program than most ACC teams' fans are about theirs... and the numbers bear that out.

[GatorUnvrsty]

SECats, on 19 January 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

I think if the SEC added NC State and VaTech, I would laugh my a$$ off at UNC and Duke until the day I died.

Would be epic to pass them by for those "little brothers"...lol!!!!

Yeah, that'd be pretty funny; but if you think about, I think they identify more with football than the typical basketball-first schools of Duke and UNC anyway.

The VT "brand", as it is, is based/built on football entirely. The UNC and Duke "brands" are basketball based. NCS doesn't really have a brand, as such; but they might be able to build one over time in a more football-driven conference... something I don't think they'll ever accomplish in basketball alongside 2 juggernauts like UNC and Duke in their same state.

[JoeGator]

GatorUnvrsty, on 18 January 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

It's not just SEC pride that fuels it; our top teams are stronger come post-season play because of the stout competition we all face every year. And we made the 2006 NCG over Michigan because of our SOS and SECCG.

Without an overall strong conference, we don't make that game, and we damn sure don't win it. In fact, without that SEC SOS, LSU doesn't make the 2007 NCG as a 2-loss team, either.

Like it or not, and realize it or not, the facts are that no matter how successful each individual program is, the SEC has brought as much to them as they've brought to the SEC. They go hand in hand.

A HUGE part of why we keep dominating in NCG's and bowl seasons is because of who we play during our regular seasons. Our perennial doormat (VU) just went 9-4 for crying out loud and beat the brakes off their bowl opponent (NCS). Our teams are better prepared for big games and tough games because we play them all year long; whereas teams from other conferences may play 2 or 3 challenging games a year, if that.

Think about it; your team/program doesn't improve by playing weak teams, they get stronger by playing the best on a regular basis... and that's the primary reason for wanting a strong overall conference. The rivalry hate is still plenty powerful during the regular season; but wanting your conference brethren to be successful OOC is a little bit pride and a lot of self-interest.

I'm well aware of why the conference needs to be strong.

What I meant was that if we are going to superconferences and losing the BCS, there is no more reason for the "SEC" chants.
Win the OOC games, get a good SOS.
But the actual pride in the conference, aside from winning it, will die out.
It won't be regional anymore.

[JoeGator]

The Doctor, on 19 January 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

Oh I'm not trying to say there aren't a lot of rednecks. All the people I know from NC are at Ole Miss in my fraternity. They are hippy-ish in that they have an affinity for "weed, peace, love, music, and sex.", and they are nothing like the stereotypical deep southerner. As far as the state itself I cannot judge, just the handful I know.

It's the mountain folk.
North Carolina is full of dive bars, music festivals, and hiking trails.
They are definitely hippies. At least the modern day version.

[GatorUnvrsty]

JoeGator, on 19 January 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

I'm well aware of why the conference needs to be strong.

What I meant was that if we are going to superconferences and losing the BCS, there is no more reason for the "SEC" chants.
Win the OOC games, get a good SOS.
But the actual pride in the conference, aside from winning it, will die out.
It won't be regional anymore.

I understand your point; but I just disagree.

Adding teams from Va. and NC doesn't change the region, those are still SE states and original members of the Confederacy; hell, Richmond, Virginia was the capital of the Confederacy for 4 years after Montgomery's brief, 4-month stint. Nobody mistakes either state for the Midwest or Northeast.

Adding ATM and Mizzou didn't do much, if anything, to dampen conference enthusiasm; it may have even given it a jump start. I doubt adding 2 more traditionally Southern states would either. It may even increase it again.

I think it's something the fans just enjoy when they play out of conference; so as long as the conference is dominant, fans, by nature of being cfb fans, will rub it in. And most of those fans who do the chant are young people and students.

The prospects are young people too, and they seem to LOVE that shit; especially if they're attending an OOC game on a visit... I've even seen them tweet it often.

When it's all said and done, the SEC is still a brand; and it'll probably be 1 of only 4 major brands left standing when expansion is finally over; and the ongoing promotion of that brand will still be important.

Let fans of programs in other conferences ridicule it; that's typically what happens when you're inferior and sit where they all do in relation to the SEC.

Edited by GatorUnvrsty, 19 January 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[GatorUnvrsty]

JoeGator, on 19 January 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

It's the mountain folk.
North Carolina is full of dive bars, music festivals, and hiking trails.
They are definitely hippies. At least the modern day version.

Their mountain folk must be very different than the mountain folk I see in Georgia and Tennessee, where they meet North Carolina... most of those mountain folk are conservative, pickup trucks (complete with dogs in bed), gun racks, and bourbon (occasionally homemade).

That Blue Ridge area is a favorite short-trip destination for slb and I.

[Mizzou_Fan]

CrimsonWarrior, on 19 January 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

UNC has the potential to be a good football school with a move to the SEC East. Not quite to the level of A&M but better than Mizzou

Please look at this link.
http://scores.espn.g...ameId=313600153

[PuddingTime]

I don't know why the hell we're going on about hippies.  You guys are talking about the kids at App State and UNC-Asheville.