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[TheRealBrave]

GatorUnvrsty, on 12 January 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

I'd agree that HW was the best collegiate RB, certainly the best I've ever seen; but I sure hope nobody is seriously trying to use USFL stats to claim he was also the best pro or better than BJ.

That's like claiming Doug Flutie was the best pro QB because he dominated a league with the far less talent than the NFL and won 3 Grey Cups.

Hershel Walker was 2nd in all time net yardage in the NFL when he retired. It's a pretty unjust myth that Hershel was a flop in the NFL.

[CrimsoNation713]

TheRealBrave, on 12 January 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

Hershel Walker was 2nd in all time net yardage in the NFL when he retired. It's a pretty unjust myth that Hershel was a flop in the NFL.

I dont think anybody said he was a flop

[GatorUnvrsty]

TheRealBrave, on 12 January 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

Hershel Walker was 2nd in all time net yardage in the NFL when he retired. It's a pretty unjust myth that Hershel was a flop in the NFL.

What kind of a stat is all-time NET yardage? He had 2 1000-yard rushing seasons in the NFL out of 12; after averaging nearly 2000 a season in the USFL. 2.

Even if you added his USFL and NFL rushing totals, it'd still only come to 13,787 yards, which would only be good for 5th all-time... and that's WITH his 5500+ USFL yards.

That his NFL career was a flop is no myth, especially considering what was expected of him.

[TheRealBrave]

GatorUnvrsty, on 13 January 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

What kind of a stat is all-time NET yardage? He had 2 1000-yard rushing seasons in the NFL out of 12; after averaging nearly 2000 a season in the USFL. 2.

Even if you added his USFL and NFL rushing totals, it'd still only come to 13,787 yards, which would only be good for 5th all-time... and that's WITH his 5500+ USFL yards.

That his NFL career was a flop is no myth, especially considering what was expected of him.

It's a relevant statistic when he was a fantastic return specialist in his time.


The Dallas Cowboys of the National Football League, suspecting that the USFL was not going to last, acquired Walker's NFL rights by drafting him in the fifth round of the 1985 NFL Draft. When the USFL succumbed after its technically successful but financially fruitless antitrust suit against the NFL in 1986, Walker came to the Cowboys as a fullback. During his first two years with the Cowboys, he shared duties with Tony Dorsett, becoming the first Heisman backfield tandem in NFL history.
He established himself as a premier NFL running back, but when Dorsett was traded to the Denver Broncos in 1988, Walker became a one-man offense, reaching his NFL career highs of 1,514 rushing yards and 505 receiving yards, while playing seven positions: halfback, fullback, tight end,H-back, wide receiver, both in the slot and as a flanker. He became just the 10th player in NFL history to amass more than 2,000 combined rushing and receiving yards in a season. In the process he achieved two consecutive Pro Bowls (1987 and 1988). In 1989, at the height of his NFL career, the Cowboys traded Walker to the Minnesota Vikings for a total of five players (LB Jesse Solomon, DB Issiac Holt, RB Darrin Nelson, LB David Howard, DE Alex Stewart) and six draft picks (which led to Emmitt Smith, Russell Maryland, Kevin Smith, and Darren Woodson). This was claimed to be a turning point in the rise of the Cowboys to the NFL's top echelon.


He made the pro bowl twice... how exactly was he a flop?

Edited by TheRealBrave, 13 January 2013 - 12:05 AM.

[GatorUnvrsty]

TheRealBrave, on 13 January 2013 - 12:05 AM, said:

It's a relevant statistic when he was a fantastic return specialist in his time.


The Dallas Cowboys of the National Football League, suspecting that the USFL was not going to last, acquired Walker's NFL rights by drafting him in the fifth round of the 1985 NFL Draft. When the USFL succumbed after its technically successful but financially fruitless antitrust suit against the NFL in 1986, Walker came to the Cowboys as a fullback. During his first two years with the Cowboys, he shared duties with Tony Dorsett, becoming the first Heisman backfield tandem in NFL history.
He established himself as a premier NFL running back, but when Dorsett was traded to the Denver Broncos in 1988, Walker became a one-man offense, reaching his NFL career highs of 1,514 rushing yards and 505 receiving yards, while playing seven positions: halfback, fullback, tight end,H-back, wide receiver, both in the slot and as a flanker. He became just the 10th player in NFL history to amass more than 2,000 combined rushing and receiving yards in a season. In the process he achieved two consecutive Pro Bowls (1987 and 1988). In 1989, at the height of his NFL career, the Cowboys traded Walker to the Minnesota Vikings for a total of five players (LB Jesse Solomon, DB Issiac Holt, RB Darrin Nelson, LB David Howard, DE Alex Stewart) and six draft picks (which led to Emmitt Smith, Russell Maryland, Kevin Smith, and Darren Woodson). This was claimed to be a turning point in the rise of the Cowboys to the NFL's top echelon.


He made the pro bowl twice... how exactly was he a flop?

I'm not saying he wasn't a great player, even great pro; nor am I saying HE was a flop.

I'm saying, when you take into account what everyone expected from his NFL career, IT was a flop.

Everyone thought he'd break every rushing record in the books and own the all-time rushing title today. He's pretty far from that notoriety, so I can hardly call him the best pro RB, or even necessarily better than Bo.

Bo had a career-ending injury that you can't hold against him; but even so, he had 2 1000-yard rushing seasons out of 4, and he was injured during 2. The guy ran for nearly 1800 yards in '85. I think barring the freak injury, he'd have been the better NFL back.

I think I'd have left out that he made 2 Pro Bowls... you realize he made ONLY 2 Pro Bowls in a dozen years, right? Just for the sake of comparison, Emmitt made 8 in 15 years.

Edited by GatorUnvrsty, 13 January 2013 - 12:22 AM.

[TheRealBrave]

GatorUnvrsty, on 13 January 2013 - 12:15 AM, said:

I'm not saying he wasn't a great player, even great pro; nor am I saying HE was a flop.

I'm saying, when you take into account what everyone expected from his NFL career, IT was a flop.

Everyone thought he'd break every rushing record in the books and own the all-time rushing title today. He's pretty far from that notoriety, so I can hardly call him the best pro RB, or even nevessarily better than Bo.

Bo had a career-ending injury that you can't hold against him; but even so, he had 2 1000-yard rushing seasons out of 4, and he was injured during 2. The guy ran for nearly 1800 yards in '85. I think barring the freak injury, he'd have been the better NFL back.

Walker had some health concerns as well, considering his multiple personality disorder and severe depression he suffered for many years before getting help. That was one of the reasons the Vikings didn't like him, they questioned his commitment to football during his problematic years. (Not that they knew about his mental problems)

[GatorUnvrsty]

TheRealBrave, on 13 January 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

Walker had some health concerns as well, considering his multiple personality disorder and severe depression he suffered for many years before getting help. That was one of the reasons the Vikings didn't like him, they questioned his commitment to football during his problematic years. (Not that they knew about his mental problems)

I've heard him talk about and read about those issues; but he had them when he was rumbling all over SEC players too. Who knows what extent any of these guys' problems had on their careers.

I just know when I saw Bo run in the NFL, I knew it was something special; and when I saw HW run in the NFL, it looked like everyone had caught up with him size and speed-wise.

[TheRealBrave]

GatorUnvrsty, on 13 January 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

I've heard him talk about and read about those issues; but he had them when he was rumbling all over SEC players too. Who knows what extent any of these guys' problems had on their careers.

I just know when I saw Bo run in the NFL, I knew it was something special; and when I saw HW run in the NFL, it looked like everyone had caught up with him size and speed-wise.

Old bastard, I wasn't even alive when those guys ran in the NFL.

[HobnailedBoots]

Once again the "eyeball test" prevailing over facts.


Bo = the greatest Auburn rb of all time and nothing more.

[GatorUnvrsty]

TheRealBrave, on 13 January 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Old bastard, I wasn't even alive when those guys ran in the NFL.

Old and crusty, as charged.

[GatorUnvrsty]

HobnailedBoots, on 13 January 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:

Once again the "eyeball test" prevailing over facts.


Bo = the greatest Auburn rb of all time and nothing more.

And Herschel = the greatest SEC (and maybe college) back of all time and nothing more.

Now that we have that settled.

Oh, and yeah, the eyeball test; that's a pretty important one if you hope to have a relevant opinion about something... which is why I have no clue why you're even weighing in on the topic.

You never even saw the guy play that you're calling the greatest this and the greatest that... your opinion might be the least valid in the entire thread.

Edited by GatorUnvrsty, 13 January 2013 - 12:50 AM.

[MrGamecockFan]

HobnailedBoots, on 12 January 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

@AUskip07

-------


However, anytime that I mention Herschel being the greatest SEC (and college, imo) RB of all time, there is always an Aubie ready to chime in with "Ummmm, did you forget about Bo?" My typical response is "No" and here is why.
1. Freshman impact.
No contest here. Herschel set the freshman rushing record at 1,616 yards - and he did that in the equivalent of 9 games (he missed the bulk of the Ole Miss game, and a half against both UT and TCU). Bo? 829 yards. Ho hum. Or let me put it this way: Bo rushed for fewer yards as a freshman than Jasper Sanks did as a sophomore. Herschel should have won the Heisman as a freshman. Bo? Bo wasn't diddly as a freshman.
Advantage: Herschel, and Bo doesn't really deserve to be mentioned in his company here.
2. Season rushing stats.
Let's take a look at their seasons in terms of yards gained per season and put them in order.
1. 1,891 yards. Herschel, 1981.
2. 1,786 yards. Bo, 1985.
3. 1,752 yards. Herschel, 1982.
4. 1,616 yards. Herschel, 1980.
5. 1,213 yards. Bo, 1983.
6. 829 yards. Bo, 1982.
7. 475 yards. Bo, 1984.
Auburn fans will quickly remind you that Bo's 1984 season was shortened by injury. I will remind Auburn fans that Herschel missed a game and a half his freshman year and a game his junior year based on injury. OK, so let's go ahead and play the "what if" game. What if Bo and Herschel hadn't missed any time due to injury? To let you know how I came up with these numbers, I did it like this. Herschel missed 1.5 games in 1980 due to injury. Take 1,616, divide by 9.5, multiply by 11 for the revised total. Here are the "no injuries" numbers:
1. 1,936 yards. Herschel, 1982.
2. 1,891 yards. Herschel, 1981.
3. 1,871 yards. Herschel, 1980.
4. 1,786 yards. Bo, 1985.
5. 1,213 yards. Bo, 1983.
6. 1,045 yards. Bo, 1984.
7. 829 yards. Bo, 1982.
Bo don't know Herschel's yards. Put another way, Herschel's 3 years are 3 of the top 5 rushing totals in SEC history. Bo's second best year doesn't even make the top 20.
Advantage: Herschel, and it's not close.
3. Career rushing stats.
Herschel: 5,259 yards in 3 years
Bo: 4,303 yards in 4 years.
Some Auburn fans will tell you that a healthy Bo Jackson would have outrushed Herschel over 4 years. Fine. Let's play that game, too. I'll even give Bo a 1984 equivalent to his best season, 1985. Don't forget, though, that Herschel had another full year to play when he left. Giving Herschel the equivalent of his worst year (1980, 1,616 yards), you get these numbers:
Herschel: 6,875 yards
Bo: 5,614 yards
Sorry, Aubies. Advantage: Herschel, and again, it's not even close.
4. Durability.
To make it through the always-brutal SEC schedule, a running back must have durability. The best home-run running back in the world doesn't do squat from the bench.
Per game: Herschel has two of the top 4 rush attempts in a game. Bo doesn't even make the list.
Per season: Herschel has the top 2 seasons. Bo's best season is at #15.
Career: Herschel had more rushes in 3 years than anyone in SEC history had in 4.
No contest here. Compared to Herschel, Bo was a china doll. Bo took himself out of games. Herschel put himself back in them. Advantage: Herschel, and Bo isn't in the same class.
5. Team impact.
Good players get good stats. Great players get great stats. Elite players lift the teams around them. Let's look at the team records and accomplishments.
National championships: In Herschel's 3 years, Georgia won a national championship and played for another. In Bo's 4, Auburn won none and played for none.
SEC championships: Georgia won 3 in Herschel's 3 years. Auburn won 1 in Bo’s 4.
Winning percentage:
Georgia: .917 (33-3), Auburn: .755 (37-12)
At home: Georgia: 1.000 (19-0), Auburn: .846 (22-4)
Away: Georgia: .909 (10-1), Auburn: .714 (10-4)
SEC: Georgia: 1.000 (18-0), Auburn: .708 (17-7)
Win streaks:
Home: Georgia: 19, Auburn: 10
SEC: Georgia: 18, Auburn: 9
AP final ranking:
Georgia: 1, 6, 4, Auburn: 14, 3, 14, unranked
Bowls:
Georgia: Sugar, Sugar, Sugar, Auburn: Tangerine, Sugar, Liberty, Cotton
Advantage: Herschel, and Bo is nowhere near.
6. Heisman balloting:
Herschel:
1980: 3rd (highest ever point total for a freshman)
1981: 2nd
1982: 1st (margin, 695 votes over John Elway)
Herschel beat out such names as John Elway, Eric Dickerson, Anthony Carter, and Dan Marino.
Bo:
1982: not on the ballot
1983: not on the ballot
1984: not on the ballot
1985: 1st (margin, 45 votes over Chuck Long, the closest vote ever)
Bo beat out such names as Chuck Long, Robbie Bosco, Vinny Testaverde, and Allan Pinckett.
Advantage: Herschel, and Bo doesn't approach him.
7. Other arguments.
Bo was a great baseball player. So was Nolan Ryan, but no one mistook him for a football player.
Bo had a better pro career. By what standards? Consider this:
Bo never had over 1,000 yards. Herschel did it for two different teams.
Bo never finished in the league's top 10 in any statistic in any season. Herschel was in the top 10 in rushing yards twice, rushing scores 5 times, receptions twice, yards from scrimmage 4 times, and rush/receiving TD's twice.
Bo never finished in the top 50 for any stat in his career. Herschel is in 5 categories. Herschel is the only player to have 10,000+ yards gained on offense and 5,000+ yards on kickoff returns. Herschel is one of only six players to exceed 60 TDs rushing and 20 TDs receiving.
Bo is only one of two players with two 90+ yard rushing TDs, but Herschel is the only player in NFL history to score a 90+ yard TD rushing, receiving, and kickoff return in the same season, and he did it in his 30's.
In conclusion:
The SEC has seen a lot of great players, and a lot of great running backs. None of them have been better in four years than Herschel Walker was in three, and that includes Bo Jackson. Bo had one great year. So did Charles Alexander from LSU, Kentucky's Mo Williams and Bama's Mark Ingram, who each exceeded 1,600 yards in a season. So did Florida's Emmitt Smith, Auburn's Rudi Johnson, and Georgia's Garrison Hearst, who all exceeded 1,500 yards in a season. No one, however, has had the sustained excellence that Herschel had throughout his career.
No one comes close. Not even Bo.

not trying to be a smartass, but how does george rogers compare?

Large Marge, on 12 January 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

GEORGE ROGERS WAS BETTER THAN BOTH

it was only a matter of time, lol...

[bmccall]

TheRealBrave, on 12 January 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

go ahead and compare their baseballs stats. You should also compare their Olympic gold medals and basketball careers too. How does it make me a homer for ing saying he isn't the best athlete "of all time". I'm not even arguing Hershel Walker was a better athlete. God , people just look for reasons to call someone a homer.

Where in my post did I call you a homer?
I just said you were throwing common sense to the wayside out of convenience, like our pal Hob. Did not call you a homer.

Paranoia is not a flattering color on you TRB.

Edited by bmccall, 13 January 2013 - 07:00 AM.

[TheRealBrave]

bmccall, on 13 January 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

Where in my post did I call you a homer?
I just said you were throwing common sense to the wayside out of convenience, like our pal Hob. Did not call you a homer.

Paranoia is not a flattering color on you TRB.

Oh come off it, what do you think that implies when you say someone is showing their inner D3

[jthomas666]

Dallas got a lot better after Walker left.


End of discussion.